MR. KOJO NNAMDIFrom WAMU 88.5 at American University in Washington, welcome to "The Kojo Nnamdi Show," connecting your neighborhood with the world. Later in the broadcast, deforestation and climate change, why initiatives are underway in several developing countries that are being paid to preserve wild areas.

MR. KOJO NNAMDIBut, first, the District's debate over marijuana enters new territory. D.C. Mayor Vincent Gray recently signed into law a measure decriminalizing possession of small amounts of marijuana. But activists are already well on their way to securing a place on the ballot this fall for a voter referendum that could legalize the recreational use of marijuana in D.C.

MR. KOJO NNAMDIJoining me in studio is one of the activists leading that push. Adam Eidinger is the chairman of the D.C. Cannabis Campaign, an effort to secure a position on the ballot this fall for a referendum on legalizing marijuana use in Washington, D.C. Adam, good to see you.

MR. ADAM EIDINGERThanks for having me.

NNAMDIYou can join the conversation. Would you support a ballot initiative in Washington, D.C. to legalize marijuana? Why or why not? 800-433-8850 is the number to call. You can shoot us an email to kojo@wamu.org. Or send us a tweet, @kojoshow. The politics of pot are in a pretty dynamic place in the D.C. area right now. But while D.C. and Maryland are just coming out of debates about decriminalization, you are already pushing, Adam, for legalization here in D.C. Where does that process now stand?

EIDINGERWell, the 10-day challenge period for our ballot initiative language has expired. Today's a holiday in D.C., Emancipation Day, so...

NNAMDISure.

EIDINGER...we haven't got formal notice from the Board of Elections that no one has challenged. But unless someone did it at 11:59 and we didn't find out about it, then I think we will be getting our petitions on April 23 when the board meets and they certify the D.C. election, their primary election.

NNAMDIYou had to get 25,000 signatures. Once you get 25,000 signatures, you get on the ballot, right?

EIDINGERWell, it's actually slightly less. We were...

NNAMDIOK.

EIDINGER...crunching the numbers. It's based on -- it's 5 percent of all the registered voters. So it's...

NNAMDIOK.

EIDINGER...around 23,000 actually. That 25,000 number is used pretty loosely. Our goal though is to collect upwards of 70,000 raw signatures. We are going to be checking every signature we collect, so we have a number. And we are using a combination of volunteer signature gatherers and paid signature gatherers. And we've been taking ads out since, I think, February for people. And we've been interviewing people, training people. We have an army of over 50 signature gatherers who are gearing to go, who are trained and hired, plus all the volunteers, which is probably another hundred or so.

NNAMDIHow much does a paid signature gatherer get paid?

EIDINGERWell, I'm -- you know, about -- it's a dollar per valid signature. But really, you know, a good signature gatherer can make $20 an hour. That's really what it comes down to.

NNAMDITo what degree do you see shifting public sentiment here? Even in Maryland, the State Senate President Mike Miller said earlier this year that he sees legalization as ultimately inevitable. This will give you the opportunity to talk about Maryland and Virginia, which you wanted to talk about.

EIDINGERYes. I think it's inevitable. I mean, we -- I've done this show before, and I said it was the number one civil rights issue of our time. I don't mean of all time but of this time.

NNAMDIYou have.

EIDINGERIt's something that's long overdue. It's the new Jim Crow. I've been to jail many times actually. I've been to jail 16 times, all but once for civil disobedience. And, you know, I used to own a business that was cannabis related that didn't even sell marijuana. We just sold pipes.

NNAMDIMm hmm.

EIDINGERAnd we sold hemp clothing. I...

NNAMDIShut you down, didn't they?

EIDINGERYeah, they shut us down. You know, we had 10 people who had full-time jobs that -- with benefits and, you know, people who had mortgages who worked for me. And I'm really just fed up now. I have no -- nothing -- no reason not to fight. And so, fortunately, Dr. Bronner's Magic Soaps, who I've worked with for many years, said, we believe in you. This is the time. You can go work on this and still work for us. And...

NNAMDI(word?).

EIDINGERAnd, you know, that's the difficult thing. A lot of people have not worked on this issue for years because society has said, if you work on this, you might lose your job. If you're a government employee, you might lose your job if you sign that petition. Well, I don't think anyone should be afraid to sign to put this on the ballot, let democracy decide.

EIDINGERPoliticians for too long have ignored the issue. The only reason the issue is now being embraced by many politicians is they see these ballot initiatives gaining in popularity. They also have a demographic shift in our country. Younger voters are becoming middle-aged. You know, people been say...

NNAMDIMm-hmm.

EIDINGERI consider myself a younger voter still, and I'm 40 years old. So -- but if you look at...

NNAMDIBut when you started this, you were in your early 20s.

EIDINGERYeah. I -- yeah, at least 20 years working on cannabis reform. And the -- you know, we did pass initiative here for medical marijuana. That included home cultivation in 1998. And we still don't have home cultivation here legal. David Catania rewrote the medical law in such a restrictive way that all the energy we put into medical marijuana just seemed to be a waste of time. And so it's like, you know what, let's just legalize it once and for all and have -- and no second-class status for anybody who uses cannabis who's of age.

EIDINGERI have to tell you, we're doing a phone bank. And four nights a week, my house is buzzing with people on cellphones calling, you know, hundreds of people, like, sometimes a couple hundred people a night. And when we get people on the phone and want to talk about this issue, you get a lot of people who are like, oh, I totally agree with you. And they ask us, what's the age going to be? And I say, 21, that's the age, just like alcohol. And I consistently hear from mothers who say, that's not realistic. You know, it should be...

NNAMDIWhat does that mean? It should be 18?

EIDINGERThey say it should be 16.

NNAMDISixteen.

EIDINGERThey think that, you know, 16 year olds are already experimenting with these things, and we lock them up and treat them like criminals. We're not going there with this initiative. We're sticking to 21, but I just want to point out that this is even a compromise. This initiative's a compromise.

NNAMDIYou think that if this does get on the ballot in November, it will encourage a lot more people to come out to vote, especially young people who may not have been voting otherwise who think that this issue is important to them?

EIDINGERI sure hope young voters will register and get out and vote. I hope every college student in the city, all these students here at WAMU, you know, American University, I hope you will come out and register. You live here now. As soon as you have an address here, you can register to vote. I waited four years, I believe, before I really registered and became a full citizen here.

EIDINGERI came here for college in the early '90s. So don't wait. Don't make the mistake I made. Register right away. And -- but that said, I don't think young voters are going to turn out in huge numbers. This last turnout was dismal, and I have -- I think Jeffrey Thompson being out of our politics is one of the reasons why turnout's so low.

NNAMDIBecause he's not putting a lot of money in to getting people out to turn out. Well, this issue might be able to encourage some people to turn out. And increased turnout is always good. But what's the pitch you make to people who do not consider themselves marijuana users or enthusiasts about why legalization is necessary over and above medical use and discrimination? In fact, I'd like you to underscore the point you made earlier that this is the civil rights issue for now.

EIDINGERWell, young people, people in their 20s who are experimenting with marijuana, get arrested, and they realize that the marijuana use is actually less damaging to their lives than the arrest and the way the government treats them. Marijuana, I don't believe, is life threatening. No one has ever ended up in emergency room. It's not something that's deadly. So we don't have this public health crisis going on where we have to ban the substance, or all these people are going to die.

EIDINGERIt's nothing like that. The laws were originally written by Klansmen and were renewed by Richard Nixon. And these laws are still in the books. They were written by racists who wanted to have another excuse to go into communities that have historically been oppressed in this country, minorities and immigrants, and to be able to search homes, harass them, and put them down.

EIDINGERI really think this is connected to a greater sort of economic injustice that took place for many years where discrimination was ingrained in our society, and this was one way to kind of keep a group of people down. Today, most marijuana users are white. Although African-Americans use a lot of marijuana, too, and...

NNAMDIAnd are the ones who mostly get arrested for it.

EIDINGERAnd they're the ones who mostly get arrested, 8:1. See, I'm building up to this. So we have this 8:1 disparity. And...

NNAMDII was moving you along.

EIDINGERThank you. Yeah, I mean, you know, the ACLU, American Civil Liberties Union, did a wonderful job last year of highlighting this fact. And we have the worst disparity of arrests between whites and blacks. And I think that's the reason why this is going to pass. I think people realize, even if you don't use marijuana, that you can't enforce these laws fairly. And if you ask a marijuana user, we feel that it's a civil rights issue. We're saying it's a human rights issue, that no one should be persecuted for using a substance.

EIDINGERImagine if we banned, you know, other substances, like Tylenol. I mean, Tylenol kills over a thousand people a year in this country. It's a deadly substance if you don't -- if you abuse it.

NNAMDIYeah.

EIDINGERBut we wouldn't ban Tylenol. That's not reasonable.

NNAMDINobody's talking about banning it. You talked about the District. And I mentioned Senate President Mike Miller in Maryland. Before the broadcast began, you talked about seeing the issue move into mainstream politics in Virginia. What are you talking about?

EIDINGERWell, yeah, Congressman Jim Moran is retiring. And there's a very competitive Democratic primary for his seat. This is Northern Virginia, Eighth District, and in that race, there are two marijuana candidates, really. And the -- you've got one, Patrick Hope, who is saying that he's going to fight -- win or lose, he's going to fight really hard in the Capitol, in the State Capitol to decriminalize or maybe legalize marijuana.

EIDINGERAnd then you also have Adam Ebbin who is also a state legislator. He's in the other House. And he's saying that he would legalize, publicly at forums. And if he's elected to Congress, he would legalize. So he has the endorsement of the national organization reform marijuana laws. But you have two candidates who are viable that are fighting it out. And they both are saying really positive things on the issue. You've got a mayoral race we just had here in D.C. where Muriel Bowser...

NNAMDIYou switch your support from one candidate to another. You started out supporting Ward 6 Councilmember Tommy Wells. And then you switched to Muriel Bowser, even though Tommy Wells, as you state, has been the main person advocating legalization of marijuana in the District. Why'd you switch?

EIDINGERI am giving Tommy Wells an award tomorrow night at Busboys and Poets for his wonderful work on the issue of marijuana legalization and reform. He just didn't have the poll numbers. And, you know, I look at the polls. I was in the Green Party for too long to no longer look at polls. I love polls now. And if you're not winning -- if you're losing by, like, 10 or 15 points to the frontrunner, you know, two weeks before an election, it just didn't seem viable anymore.

EIDINGERAnd I really -- I think we gave it a go. We told people to support him. And he didn't get any sort of boost from our campaign supporting him. So ultimately Muriel Bowser, we had a blind spot for her. And she met with us, and that blind spot was removed. And it was very clear that she has very similar views on marijuana legalization as Tommy Wells.

EIDINGERAnd she even questioned, why even bother with decrim? Let's just set up a tax and regulate system like they have in Colorado and Washington? And I really agree with sentiment. I think probably Congress won't interfere if we do that. But let's see if they interfere with decrim.

NNAMDIWe got a tweet from Jody Lee: "Will D.C. pot be taxed like in Colorado? It seems crazy to shut off to that revenue. I would support if yes. I'm agnostic if no."

EIDINGERWe can't put the question on the ballot this November.

NNAMDIYes.

EIDINGERWe could only ask the question of legalization of minimal amounts for personal use. And that means home cultivation as well. That's our solution for the short term where people can get it legally. But ultimately I would fully support expanding the dispensaries in the city to basically open them up to people of 21 years of age to hold some cannabis aside for the people who are very sick, so they don't sell out.

EIDINGERBut then, you know, they have a surplus. They're not selling enough cannabis to even pay their bills right now. And they need this. They need this to be opened up. So I say why add all this bureaucracy? Why get doctors involved? Just let adults decide if they want to use it or not.

NNAMDIOur guest is Adam Eidinger. He is chairman of the D.C. Cannabis Campaign, an effort to secure a position on the ballot this fall for a referendum on legalizing marijuana use. Here is Christopher in Washington, D.C. Christopher, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

CHRISTOPHERHi. Thanks for taking my call. I just -- I'm for the end of prohibition. Obviously, I think that anyone that takes a minute to do a little bit of open-minded research can see just how ridiculous the laws are. My question is how hard are you going to fight for home cultivation and how hard do you think the council members will push back on that?

NNAMDIGood question.

EIDINGERWell, I think it's time to fight for it. I mean, it was -- we fought for it in 1998 with medical marijuana. And I think it's a solution for low-income people. I also think there's something to be said for a patient who's terminally ill, growing their own plant, growing their own medicine. It's very empowering. So, yeah, I'm always going to fight for it. And let's not parsed it. Let's not have a second-class status for marijuana when it's safer than alcohol and it's safer than these other substances, which we do let people produce at home.

NNAMDIGlad you mentioned safe because that's what two of our callers, Tom, in Baltimore, and Jerry, in Washington, want to address. First go to Tom, in Baltimore. Tom, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

TOMHi there. I just wanted to know your caller's standpoint on the recent research about the effects of cannabis on the brain and changing the size and, you know, all these things. You know, I'm all for -- I've read the studies and you look at, I think, prohibition, if you looked at after that time frame, you actually had drinking go down. So I've looked at both sides of the issue. But when you really think about the health impact, what are your thoughts on that?

NNAMDIAllow me to go now to Gerry, in Washington, D.C., because I think Gerry has the same concern. Gerry, your turn.

GERRYYes. I mean there's an article in the Post today that shows from the Journal of Neuroscience, that even casual marijuana smokers showed significant brain abnormalities in two vital brain regions important in motivation and emotion. So this is not a light matter. And I would hardly call this the new Jim Crow. I mean, please, Adam.

NNAMDIAdam?

EIDINGERWell, more than 700,000 people a year are arrested for marijuana crimes. And I think, you know, like we've pointed out, most of them African Americans. So it is the new Jim Crow. It is…

NNAMDIAs to the studies?

EIDINGERAs far as the studies go, many substances that people commonly use affect the brain and can affect brain chemistry, including all the pharmaceuticals that are being sold over the counter, which we know cause depression and other illnesses that sometimes are not -- you can never -- you can't really recover from. I think it's very clear that marijuana is one of the safest, most therapeutic substances known to man.

EIDINGERAnd if it is having a negative impact on somebody they should stop using it. But for the people who benefit from it, they should have legal, safe access. And I shouldn't have to go to a narcoterrorist to buy marijuana. And that's essentially what the government's telling the marijuana users in this country.

NNAMDIThank you very much for both of your calls, Gerry and your call, Tom. We're running out of time very quickly, but you are not a straight-out-of-college activist anymore with nothing to lose. You've recently, as you mentioned, turned 40. You're raising a child. How would you say your perspective has changed over the years?

NNAMDIFrom the Washington Post Magazine profile of you earlier, allow me to read a little bit. "He's been arrested by choice and by force. He's sued D.C. police and Capitol police over arrest procedures. He's lost two races to be the District shadow representative. He delights in being the mosquito, buzzing around the people in power. 'One of the things in this town that people want is to be liked,' he said. 'I've taken the approach that I'd rather be hated.'" Frankly, I don't know anybody who hates you, but how would you say you have evolved over the years?

EIDINGERWell, I was a member of the State of Green Party until very recently. I joined the Democratic Party because I became more practical in my politics. And -- when I turned 40, I guess. My heart's still with the State of Green Party and my heart's still with, you know, fighting the good fight. But I've gotten to the point in my life where I want to accomplish things and I won't go forward with a plan if I don't feel like the plan is complete.

EIDINGERAnd I think when you're a little younger you're willing to just go out in the streets and protest and you don't know where it's going to end up. You just have to do something. You have to speak out. When (unintelligible) when we took polling -- we took a poll here. That was the first step in this whole process. Like before you can convince a funder that you really are going to put this on the ballot and it's going to pass, you've got to show them a poll that shows there's broad support.

EIDINGERAnd when we polled decriminalization, it polled it in D.C. at 75 percent. This was like 1,600 voters. And when we polled legalization it polled at 63 percent. You only need 50 percent to win. And so here is this, you know, double-digit surplus of support. Let's -- why is nothing happening here? So this, to me, was an unanswered question until I answered it. Until I decided it's time to do it.

EIDINGERSo how have I changed? I mean, I'm a parent. I have a 10-year-old. I'm much more responsible with my time. I don't go out that much in the evenings. I spend most of evenings, weeknights at home with my family. Yeah, I mean, that article was -- that article was hard to read for me because, you know, it kind of is one stereotype after another at times. But…

NNAMDIWell, it's how Adam Eidinger, in some respects, has evolved. He's no longer simply interested in making a statement. He also wants to make a "W," a win on those issues…

EIDINGERYes.

NNAMDI…that he is concerned about. He's chairman of the D.C. Cannabis Campaign. That's an effort to secure a position on the ballot this fall for a referendum on legalizing marijuana use in Washington, D.C. It appears on the way to succeeding. Adam, thank you so much for joining us.

EIDINGERThank you.

NNAMDIGoing to take a short break. When we come back, deforestation and climate change. Why initiatives are underway in several developing countries that are being paid to preserve wild areas. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.