KOJO NNAMDIYou're tuned in to The Kojo Nnamdi Show on WAMU 88.5. Welcome. Later in the broadcast we'll give the buzz on Maryland's bee population and what researchers are doing to help protect it. But first what are your Fourth of July plans. Are you planning to go to the National Mall festivities or do you prefer to watch the fireworks from a roof deck somewhere else?

KOJO NNAMDIThe Fourth of July, Independence Day, is next Thursday. And this year's celebration is changing years of tradition on the Mall. President Trump is leading what he calls the "Salute to America," which will include military demonstrations and flyovers as well as a presidential address. Beyond the Mall road and transportation closures are expected. And you may want to reconsider where you're going to watch the fireworks. So what does it mean for those of us who live here and plan to enjoy the Fourth? Here to give us more details and answer some of your questions is Rachel Sadon. She is Editor in Chief of DCist.com. Rachel, always a pleasure.

RACHEL SADONHi, Kojo.

NNAMDIWhat's on the program for this year's Fourth of July at the Mall and what has changed from past?

SADONSure. Yeah, so what we know is a couple of the regular events are still happening. There's the annual parade will be going on from 11:45 till 2:00. That's about one mile on Constitution Avenue. The other, you know, pretty much unchanged event is the Capital Fourth Concert starting at 8:00, John Stamos will be hosting this year. So pretty standard events, but then as you mentioned President Trump will be speaking at this event called a "Salute to America" from 6:30 till 7:00. We don't have a ton of details about what that program will look like when he'll speak, but what we do know is what the Interior Department has told us.

SADONThere will be military demonstrations, music, flyovers, and then there will be a fireworks display that is also a bit different than in past years. The location has changed. It's in West Potomac Park, the launch site this year. There was talk about there being two shows, but it's looking like it's just going to be one with two operators this year. And I'm delighted that Mike here can help fill in some of the gaps potentially.

NNAMDIMike here is Michael Litterst. He is the National Park Service Chief of Communications for the National Mall and Memorial Parks. Good to see you, Mike.

MICHAEL LITTERSTGood to see you, Kojo. Always good to come in.

NNAMDIWhat's the role of the National Park Service when it comes to the Fourth of July and the festivities on the Mall?

LITTERSTBecause so much of the downtown area, the monumental core is under the administration of the National Park Service, that's the National Mall, all of the Monuments Memorials, West Potomac, East Potomac Park. Those open areas where not only the events take place, but where the crowds gather are administered by the National Park Service. So for decades the Park Service has had the lead role in putting on the events. Whether it's the fireworks, we are co-hosts for the Capital Fourth Concert and the National Independence Day Parade. So we have a fairly significant role on the Fourth of July.

NNAMDII should mention that D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser is holding a press conference with federal law enforcement officials on Friday. But, Mike, will the Park Service be working with the president's security detail on logistics? And how much information do you have about the plan?

LITTERSTPark Service is working with a wide variety of federal, state and local partners. Certainly our United States Park Police is working with the Secret Service with the Metropolitan Police Department with local area jurisdictions that are going to provide law enforcement support to make sure that the event is conducted in a manner that's safe for visitors and participants. We are working with the White House and with the Secret Service to plan the president's attendance and events. And as Rachel mentioned at this point the details are a bit limited. But we do know that there will be military demonstrations and music. We are expecting to see the Old Guard Fife and Drum Corp, the U.S. Army Band, the United States Marine Corp Silent Drill Team, a full range of all the military services and their various ceremonial units.

NNAMDIMike, putting politics aside, what does this shift in plans mean in practice for the Park Service and how people will experience the Mall?

LITTERSTIn a lot of ways it does not significantly shift what we would normally be doing. Obviously we were going to have a Capital Fourth. The parade was going to take place. We were going to do fireworks regardless of -- the "Salute to America" is just an additional event taking place on a day that's already busy. So as far as the access points where people will come in to view the events that's the same they've seen in years past. Prohibited items, what you can and what you can't bring, that hasn't changed.

LITTERSTIn many ways, we are fortunate that this is taking place on the Fourth of July when there are already so many road closures in place and restricted areas set up. If we were to try and do this the following week or the following month, then you've got a whole separate day that's going to have to put all those closures in place. Again, anytime the president comes to a National Park or to a public event it's a big deal. But so much of the Mall area is already going to be secure and have restricted road access that day that this is not nearly as complicated as it would be if it were a standalone event.

NNAMDIOn to the phones here is Jeff in Bowie. Jeff, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

JEFFHey, you had spoken about this date earlier about two three weeks ago. And you had mentioned that there's probably going to be protesting and the balloon from Europe is going to be coming. Is that still happening? And how do we find out about the protesting where we can go protest?

NNAMDIWell, let me start with Mike Litterst before I go to Rachel Sadon. The Park Service issues permits for the Mall and it's my understanding that at least one protest group has applied for a permit. Who plans to be there and do you have any concerns about interactions between protestors and those coming to hear the president speak?

LITTERSTKojo, you and I are no strangers to conversations about First Amendments events on the National Mall. And as this day is no different than any other large scale event that draws First Amendment demonstrations, the National Mall will always be open to the American people to come and peaceably assemble and express their opinions about current events and what's going on. So we have received so far I believe we received two First Amendment applications. We are working with those applicants to find a place where they can demonstrate in a place where they can be seen and be heard close enough to the events. And where that event can take place safely for the demonstrators and for the public and to ensure the protection of park resources.

NNAMDIRachel Sadon.

SADONSo I know that one of those groups is Code Pink. Do we know who the other one is?

LITTERSTOff the top of my head, I do not.

NNAMDIRachel, have we seen political protests on these Fourth of July events in the past?

SADONI mean, not in my memory. I don't know if you have any memories of this, but my experience of the Fourth of July is that it has always been nonpartisan. I mean, it's obviously, you know, a national event. It's televised. There are fireworks, but it also has like a real local character to it. I think it's a tradition for a lot of families to go down to the Mall. I know I've always said to newcomers like, even if you don't like crowds you kind of have to experience it once. I've always recommended like taking a bike and getting out of the traffic fast.

SADONIt's a thing I think that, you know, you pack a picnic. You see the fireworks. It's sort of never been a thing that you had to think twice about. And I think for a lot of people this year there's sort of a question of Do I go? Do I protest? Do I buy a Trump baby balloon, which are not allowed. Helium balloons aren't allowed on the Mall, but there's plans to sell them anyway. You know, a number of people have said, I'm going to watch it, but further away from the Mall. You know, you can see the fireworks in most places around the city.

SADONSo I think for a lot of people it's, you know, really a much different calculation rather than, do I want to battle the crowds this year or not? It's also, you know, am I making a political statement by going? And I think that -- I'm never in all my years living here sort of heard that before.

NNAMDIMy favorite spot back in the day was sitting on the shoulder of 295 and Anacostia and then being runoff by the police over and over, over and over again. Here now is Rachel in Silver Spring, Maryland. Rachel, your turn.

RACHELHi, thanks for taking my call and I wanted to thank the Park Service for doing such as amazing event. I'm 59 and I'm a fourth generation Washingtonian and so, of course, I've been down to the Mall on Fourth of July as a child with my family and with my first boyfriend and as a camp counselor trying not to lose kids, 1976, that was amazing, but no, this year I absolutely will not be going. I think it's outrageous.

RACHELD.C. has done an amazing job with this event for generations, and we don't need a military parade and it's not what the Fourth of July is about and we certainly don't need the president to make it about himself, although he's just unable to do anything without making it about himself. So I'm going to be one of the people, who isn't watching it on TV and is looking for local fireworks to enjoy with some compatible people who, you know --

NNAMDIYeah, there will be a lot of those in my neighborhood too. Thank you very much for your call.

RACHELYes. Thank you.

NNAMDI800-433-8850. Rachel, you were making the point earlier as the caller Rachel has also underlined this as in large major a local celebration. Two questions, first you, Mike Litterst, does this celebration usually attract a lot of tourists to Washington, who come especially for the fireworks?

LITTERSTCertainly it's one of those events that is local at its heart, but it does draw visitors from around the world. We get questions regularly from people early in the year about what the schedule is going to be, because they're planning their travel plans to come in. I'm sure folks from Destination D.C. could probably quantify that a little bit more for us. Well, again, for a lot of us and like Rachel the caller, you know, my first fireworks on the Mall was in 1976. It was a family outing and have continued to take my family down there, but it is a National Park. Our constituency is all of American citizens and we're here to welcome folks from around the country for that event.

NNAMDIWell, the reason I raise this, Rachel Sadon, is it's my understanding that the Trump Hotel has been solidly booked, which indicates that a number that well-heeled people from out of town are coming for this celebration and I don't know the extent to which that was true in the past.

SADONI Mean, I don't know that there's -- I've never seen great numbers sort of about that before. I think that Mike is really right in saying that, of course, it's going to attract out of towners. I've just sort of always experienced it from a local's perspective and sort of loved seeing generations of families, you know, piled onto a picnic basket -- like not piled into a picnic basket. Piled onto a picnic blanket with basket sort of, you know, enjoying it. And I think that, of course, as with anything on the Mall there's always going to be a mix of locals and tourists.

SADONBut you're right, there was a report from a Watchdog group that noted sort of the exorbitant prices at the Trump Hotel over the holiday. And sort of, you know, pointed out as has been the case, you know, since he took the presidency that there does appear to be some sort of conflict of interest in having, you know, his hotel on Pennsylvania Avenue. And sort of any of these events are going to financially benefit him.

NNAMDIWe're seeing some pushback from local politicians, who are worried about D.C. footing the bill for all of this. Last week we spoke with Congresswoman Eleanor Holmes-Norton, D.C.'s representative in the House who has just co-authored a letter asking Congress for $6 million in supplemental funding for D.C. Here's part of what she told us.

ELEANOR HOLMES-NORTONThe District is the most practiced jurisdiction in the United States for handing such events. So I know it will pull out all the stops and it will do so not withstanding that it hasn't been paid and doesn't know if it will be paid. And I'm hoping that when the Congress sees this surprise all day event, I should call it, that it will understand that no local jurisdiction should or can pay for what amounts to surprise event.

NNAMDISo, Rachel, has that been the general reaction among D.C.'s leaders?

SADONYeah. I mean, so this -- the sort of back and forth between the president and local leaders stems way back before this was even a July Fourth event. Initially it was planned for a military parade on Veteran's Day and there was sort of a back and forth about costs. And he had blamed local officials for setting an exorbitantly high price. And local officials said, No, you know, it's really expensive to stage one of these giant events here. So there has always sort of been a little bit of tension around that and now that's coming back up again.

SADONYou heard the congresswoman talking about the cost there for inauguration. The city is still owed about $7 million from that. And there's a question of, you know, what will this event cost if there's sort of additional security. What costs will the city be incurring and if they'll actually be repaid for them or not?

NNAMDIMike Litterst, will areas be closed off to get things ready before the Fourth?

LITTERSTThey will be closed off, but not appreciably different from what people have seen previously. The fireworks setup in West Potomac Park, for example, will begin the end of this week. So there will be -- some of the ball fields down in that area won't be accessible. There will be fencing starting to go up as recently as tonight. But pedestrians will still be able to walk through and pass through. It is a as you can imagine, it is a lot of man hours to get ready for an event like this and throwing in some presidential security on top of that. So people will find staging, for example, going up at the Lincoln Memorial, but the memorial itself will remain open until the Fourth of July prior to the president's arrival.

NNAMDIHere's Rebeca in Silver Spring, Maryland. Rebeca, your turn.

REBECAHi. Thanks for having me. I'm looking forward to the Fourth of July quite a lot, because it's also my 23rd birthday. So I'm no stranger to the fireworks and all that great event happening down in D.C. But this year, I don't think I'll be going down to D.C. just because it's so crowded. And as fun as the events are, the Metro is awful and so crowded whenever I go down there on the Fourth of July. So I think I'm going to be avoiding the crowds and just watching all the nice fireworks wherever I can find them in my local neighborhood.

NNAMDIBut that doesn't have anything to do with politics for you at all?

REBECAIt definitely does as Rachel mentioned. I don't think it should be about military or about Trump and his speeches and possibly prepping for his own political interests and running his campaign, but as much as I wouldn't want to go just because of that. I also just want to avoid the crowds for myself.

NNAMDIOkay, Rebeca, thank you for your call. Mike Joel emailed us with a question. "What's the reason for moving the fireworks location? For those who like a front row seat, the new location is much less accessible."

LITTERSTNot sure which front row he's referring to, but in moving the fireworks to West Potomac Park we create the launch site in an area which was not traditionally heavily used for spectators in West Potomac Park. By doing that it allows us to open, if you will, some fairly prime real estate along the reflecting pool. It allows us to keep Constitution Gardens open. The Memorial to the 56 signers of the Independence will be open this year on the Fourth of July for the first time in recent memory. So it does allow us to make some, we think, better viewing areas open and accessible that weren't previously.

SADONSo, yeah, this has me wondering, because the reason extensibly was also that it could allow more people to see the fireworks, correct? Do you guys have any sort of sense of estimates in terms of numbers of people that you might see this year? I mean, we're hearing all these people saying, I actually am not going to come this year. Might it even be smaller than in years past or is that something that we'll have to wait to see.

LITTERSTI think we'll probably have to wait and see. Again, we know, for example, that the area along the reflecting pool and up in the Constitution Gardens can fit 75,000 or so people before you start putting in the infrastructure that has to go in as far as, you know, sound towers and light towers and things like that. Again, and we are taking out of play an area that didn't traditionally see much in the way of spectators. So there is a net gain for the space that's available for people to come down and see.

SADONRight.

NNAMDIHere's Ken in Arlington, Virginia. Ken, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

KENHi, Kojo. Thanks for taking my call. Yeah, I just wanted to say I won't be attending. We're going to be traveling out of the country and I'm actually glad. As an Army Veteran, I'm really opposed to the fact that they're trying to turn the Fourth of July into a military celebration. That's not the intent of the holiday. There's plenty of other military celebrations throughout the year. And I think this is just wrong, it's politicizing what was a great national holiday. I know there's some precedence for this with presidents in the past trying to do the same thing, trying to wrap themselves in the flag, but I don't think turning the Fourth of July to a military holiday is appropriate. And I think a lot of people in the military feel that way as well. So I'll take my answer off -- response off the air. Thanks.

NNAMDIKen, thank you very much for your call. I'm sure as you said there are a lot of people who feel like you. On the other hand, there might be a lot of people who approve of this idea. The proof as they say is in the pudding. We'll have to see what happens come July Fourth. Here's Judy in McLean, Virginia. Judy, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

JUDYThank you very much. I just want to advice people that serious things can go wrong on the Mall on the Fourth of July. I was there on July 4, 1970. That was the year that Nixon invaded Cambodia and the four students were killed at Kent State, and so on the Mall that Fourth, it was significantly partisan, significantly anti-war, and significantly dangerous. Since the Park Police were mounted on horses were throwing tear gas and I myself was nearly clubbed. Thank you.

NNAMDIOh, yes, there has been a history of protests on the Mall on July Fourth. Judy, thank you for your call. Well, there's at least one individual who seems to be looking forward to this for reasons you may not realize. Uber driver, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

UBER DRIVERYes, sir. I'm an Uber driver and I just wanted to add I was listening to your show while driving. And Fourth of July would be a big day for us, because whatever the money that we make hopefully we will make double of that. And all the hotels will be packed. National Mall will be packed. Not only D.C., but the Spur 180 like Maryland and Virginia, they would also be busy. And since there will be high demand for us, so more opportunities to make money. That's a good day for us.

NNAMDIGood day for your bank account, huh? Okay, Uber driver. We're just about out of time, Mike, but it's tough to say how the weather will be next week with certainty, but it looks like there may be some rain in the forecast for Thursday. What are the contingency plans for bad weather?

LITTERSTContingency plans, unfortunately there is no rain date for the Fourth of July fireworks, because of the enormous amount of resources that we deploy from our own and local law enforcement agencies. There's simply not an opportunity to bring all those people back the next day. Streets have to reopen the next day so people can go to work. So in a worst case scenario if we have rain going on at the start time for the show when we're not able to start the show, we may start a little bit later if need be, but we'll do everything one way or another to get the fireworks in that night.

SADONIt's happened before, I seem, to remember a few years ago.

LITTERSTWe had a couple three years ago just we were getting ready to start. The rain was moving in. National Weather Service told us we had a very narrow window and go now and we may have even been a couple minutes early that year.

NNAMDIMichael Litterst, he's the National Park Service Chief of Communications for the National Mall and Memorial Parks. Mike, good to see you.

LITTERSTGood to see you, Kojo. Thank you.

NNAMDIRachel Sadon, I see every day all the time. Her desk is right down the hall from me. She's Editor in Chief of DCist.com. Rachel, thank you for joining us.

SADONThanks for having me.

NNAMDIGoing to take a short break. When we come we'll give you the buzz on Maryland's bee population and what researchers are doing to help protect it. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.