KOJO NNAMDIYou're tuned in to The Kojo Nnamdi Show on WAMU 88.5. Welcome. Later on the broadcast how the shutdown is affecting federal prisons and why it matters to D.C. residents in particular. But first, as we head into day 26 of the partial government shutdown 50,000 federal employees have been called back to work unpaid and many still furloughed and without a paycheck are trying to make ends meet. Some are even looking for work elsewhere including at local schools. Joining me to discuss that is Jenny Abamu. She is WAMU's Education Reporter. Jenny, good to see you.

JENNY ABAMUThank you for having me.

NNAMDIWe are three weeks into the government shutdown. What have you been hearing from federal employees who've been affected? How are they feeling as the shutdown stretches on?

ABAMUKojo, there's increasing anxiety out there. The uncertainty is affecting a lot of people in the Washington region. They don't know how long it's going to go on, whether people will be able to pay their bills. And there also just seems to be a lot of patchwork. People are trying to figure out what to do -- what to tell people. And federal workers in D.C. seem to have a little bit of an advantage, because, you know, they might get back pay. But the contractors are really upset. So there's a big difference.

NNAMDIJenny, you attended a recruitment event yesterday in Fairfax County. What was it for?

ABAMUSo Fairfax County was one of the first districts in the Washington area to do a job fair to recruit substitute teachers. And following them several other school districts have done that. But, yeah, yesterday I went to one of the job fairs just to kind of talk to federal workers, contractors, those who were there to get substitute teaching jobs.

NNAMDIOne of the furloughed workers you spoke with at the job fair, Jonathan Dunn (sp?) had this to say.

JONATHAN DUNNIt's frustrating. I mean, I have a family so I got to take care of them and one way or another. So I got to figure something out. Complaining is not going to put food on the table or pay the bills. So you got to figure something out. So my wife is working, which is a great help. Ideally I wouldn't have to rely on only her paycheck to cover all the bills, so trying to do my part regardless of my situation. So that's the plan.

NNAMDIJohnathan Dunn is on furlough from a job in the Department of Homeland Security. It's not just Fairfax County that's holding these job fairs for furloughed workers. Where else is this happening in our region, Jenny?

ABAMUSo I know of at least seven other districts in Maryland and Virginia that put out notices saying they were recruiting for substitutes. And also in Montgomery County they had another open -- a job fair yesterday too. And they weren't just recruiting for substitutes. They were also recruiting for jobs like bus drivers and security officers.

NNAMDIAre these just for furloughed federal workers or can anyone apply?

ABAMUSo the call out and the special fast tracking of applications is marketed to federal workers. But I did meet one gentleman who said he was and I quote "freeloading" off the offer to federal workers. He had been unemployed for months and this was an opportunity for him to find work too. So he was there.

NNAMDIAnd within the federal worker population, is this open to anyone? What, for example are the education requirements?

ABAMUSo the barrier to entry for subbing isn't too strenuous. You need at least 60 college credit hours in Fairfax. And a recommendation letter from an employer. Often times retirees fill these positions.

NNAMDIWhat is the process? What kind of background checks and other safe guards are there?

ABAMUSo Fairfax County, the way they had their event set up, it was really interesting, because they kind of -- they wanted to fast track people. And so they had different stations where people could get their fingerprints done. They literally got onboarded. So they basically -- by the time they left that event they were ready to work almost. They only had to do -- I know that they were mentioning that they still had to kind of check their backgrounds and that might take two or three days. But they were working over the weekend trying to get those people cleared so that they would be able to start to work this week.

NNAMDISo you're saying that in just a few days after these people have applied they might actually find themselves in classrooms teaching?

ABAMUExactly.

NNAMDIOoh, interesting. So why are the school districts offering these jobs up and why substitute teaching in particular? Are there shortages of substitute teachers?

ABAMUYou hit the nail on the head, Kojo. In Fairfax, over the last three years demands for subs have increased, while the pool of available teachers have decreased. That's partially, because it's not exactly a well-paid job compared to others in the regions. For the subs, they make about $100 a day in a seven hour work day, which is around $14 an hour, which is higher than minimum wage. But still not competitive compared to other jobs or even other districts in the region. So the superintendent, he's hoping to change that. He wants to increase pay. But in the meantime, a spokesperson told me the district is looking to fill around 900 to 1100 spots a day.

NNAMDISpeaking of the kind of pay these jobs are offering, at the Fairfax County recruitment event, Jenny, you also heard from people like Dan Fear (sp?) , an IT government contractor, who will not receive back pay, because contractors won't be receiving back pay at the end of this shutdown. Here's what Dan Fear had to say.

DAN FEARI'm filling out my onboarding paperwork, but I think if you ask almost anybody here, is this where they want to be? The answer is no, whether they're a federal employee, whether they're a contractor. They have jobs. They have careers that they would prefer to be working. You know, not the least of reasons would be that the substitute salary is $14 an hour. That is not my salary. That is not even close.

NNAMDIFourteen dollars an hour is what they will be making. Larry in Montgomery County, Maryland, I think wants to talk about the long term effects of this. Larry, you are on the air. Go ahead, please.

LARRYWell, thanks for taking my call. I served as a senior military officer during the last shutdown. And I observed afterwards a number of our younger employees departing for the private sector where they felt they had more secure prospects. So I think that long term we're looking at far more serious damage than we may be realizing in the short term.

NNAMDIWhat kind of serious damage?

LARRYWell, I think when you have, you know, lower wages in the public sector than in the private sector, which is generally accepted, you know, a lot of people look at stability of working in the public sector as a very attractive option. And yet now, you know, like I said, I had people leaving who were concerned about the stability in the public sector. And that was the last shutdown.

NNAMDII'm glad you mentioned that. Did you hear that from anyone at all, Jenny Abamu? That, Look, I chose a government career because it offered me stability. I could have made probably more in the private sector, but I needed the stability and now it looks like I don't even have that.

ABAMUParticularly from the contract workers that was a really big deal, because they're -- the furloughed workers they're still kind of hopeful. There was a little bit of hope in some of the voices that I talked to. They were like, Okay, I can figure out a way to weather this situation. Maybe not if it becomes years. But for the contract workers who were -- who have government contracts and a lot of them are not getting their money back, I heard people -- people did tell me they were applying other places. They were sending their resumes to other places, because they needed to make sure that they -- this wouldn't happen to them again. And then also they needed stability for their families.

NNAMDIWe mentioned in the opening that 50,000 federal employees have been called back to work unpaid. We got an email from Emma (unintelligible) who says, Doesn't the 13th Amendment prohibit forced labor? I can understand the limit might be protecting life and health, but I don't understand how you can force people to work giving tax refunds, because the IRS is one of the places that has called people back to work unpaid. So I guess we'll be finding out more about that later, because there has been a lawsuit filed by several individuals of the federal government saying that this violates the 13th Amendment, which it does not allow involuntary labor.

ABAMUAnd actually the judge ruled that people did have to return to work. So there's a lot of debate about that still going on.

NNAMDIOn now to Craig who is calling from his car. Craig, you are on the air. Go ahead, please.

CRAIGYeah, hi. I just wanted to make a comment. In all the considerations of people who are affected by the shutdown and who are looking for a second income, I wanted to point out that there are people who work for various government departments overseas, who have no opportunity to look for employment outside because they would (unintelligible) etcetera. They're not getting paid. They're still stuck having to pay rent, complaints like that. And yet their landlords aren't being (unintelligible) be swayed by any comments made by our president.

NNAMDISo those people are not necessarily considered essential employees, because, Oh, you happen to be working in the U.S. embassy in some particular country, right?

CRAIGActually they can't be essential and so they're working -- still going to work every day, but not being paid and with no prospect of pay.

NNAMDIOkay. They are definitely in a very difficult situation. Thank you for sharing that with us. Jenny, how much of a response is Fairfax County getting from furloughed workers and what does the response look like in other jurisdictions?

ABAMULiterally they've been selling out these job fairs like crazy. They had to up their limits. They let people in, you know, who didn't sign up. Literally I think they said within hours of posting the second job fair they had already sold out and they had about 175 spots for that. When I was there, there were people -- there was a long line of people just waiting for a chance to get in.

ABAMUI posted that one on Tweeter, because it was just so telling of how many people this is actually affecting, just seeing all those workers, who normally do have jobs standing outside and waiting. And so it's -- I mean, people are looking for something stable to do. They're looking for income, because they don't know how long it's going to be.

NNAMDISome school districts are also offering free and reduced priced meals to students whose families have been affected by the shutdown. What else are school districts offering during the shutdown?

ABAMUSo to be clear most of the meals are not free that they're offering, but they are allowing kids to have a balance. Kind of, I guess you could say a credit without having to pay it yet. Only Prince George's County did free meals for a limited time period. But schools are also offering advice and support to furloughed workers, kind of trying to direct them towards resources in their community so that they know what they can get, what's available to them. For example, are there food pantries, things like that. So the schools are trying to be a place of resource support for them in different -- in multiple ways.

NNAMDIWe got an email from Dina who asked, When is President Trump expected to sign the legislation for federal employee back pay?" Do we have any idea?

ABAMUThat timeframe -- I don't know that at this point. I would be interested to know the same answer.

NNAMDII don't know that either. Any other short term jobs you've heard about people doing in this period? People who are federal employees who are affected by this shutdown?

ABAMUSo ride sharing jobs like Lyft and Uber are popular options for people that I've talked to. But I do hear some federal workers who turned into drivers saying they're not getting as many rides, because with federal workers furloughed not many people in the area are actually using the rides to go anywhere. And then now they have more drivers on the road than people wanting to go anywhere.

NNAMDIYeah, that's what I've been hearing also. The ripple effects of this shutdown are affecting just about every single kind of business you can think about in the Washington area. Jenny Abamu is WAMU's Education Reporter. Jenny, always a pleasure.

ABAMUThank you for having me.

NNAMDIWe're going to take a short break. When we come back, you know, the District of Columbia has to send its people who are sentenced to prison to federal institutions. We'll talk about how the shutdown is affecting them. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.