MR. KOJO NNAMDIFrom WAMU 88.5 at American University in Washington, welcome to "The Kojo Nnamdi Show," connecting your neighborhood with the world. Later in the broadcast, it's your turn to talk more about Marion Barry, Bill Cosby, sexual assault at the University of Virginia or other news. Tomorrow, in the 1pm hour, we'll be talking with Armenian-American author Meline Toumani about her book, "There Was and There Was Not." She'll be reading from that book tonight at Kramer Books in DuPont Circle at 6:30pm. That's tomorrow, but first, today.

MR. KOJO NNAMDILocal approaches to immigration. President Obama said last week he'll use his executive power to temporarily remove the fear of deportation for four million undocumented residents of the United States. Parents of children who are US citizens or legal residents will have a three year reprise from the threat of being deported. They will be able to get work permits and as the President said, get right with the law. Around the Washington region, the reaction to the President's plan is mixed.

MR. KOJO NNAMDIReflecting a wide range of views on undocumented immigrants. In Prince William County in Virginia, the Board of County Supervisors has moved to hasten the deportation of undocumented residents who commit crimes. At the same time, Maryland state lawmakers have passed a Dream Act to offer in state tuition to qualifying undocumented students and allow undocumented residents to apply for a driver's license. Joining me to explore different local perspectives on undocumented immigrants and their future in the US is Corey Stewart.

MR. KOJO NNAMDIChair of the Prince William Board of County Supervisors. He joins us by telephone. Corey Stewart, thank you for joining us.

MR. COREY STEWARTMy pleasure, Kojo. Always great to be on your show.

NNAMDIAlways good to have you. Also joining us by phone is Victor Ramirez. He's a Maryland state Senator. He's a Democrat from Prince George's County. Victor Ramirez, thank you for joining us.

MR. VICTOR RAMIREZThank you, Kojo. It's always a pleasure to be on here with you and the listeners in the D.C. area.

NNAMDIAlways good to have you, too. If you'd like to join the conversation, give us a call at 800-433-8850. Do you agree with President Obama's plan to give temporary protection from deportation to undocumented parents of American born children? 800-433-8850. Shoot us an email to kojo@wamu.org or send us a tweet @kojoshow. Cory Stewart, what is your reaction to President Obama's announcement that he'll temporarily remove this threat of deportation for undocumented parents whose children are US citizens or legal residents?

STEWARTWell, I think that, to some extent, the issue's been a bit overblown, because what the President has done, by an executive order, obviously is made -- probably will not have a lasting effect. It's an executive order. It can be easily undone by the next President, whoever that is. But we are very concerned about giving sanctuary to those illegal immigrants who have committed crimes. And although the President said that was not going to happen, but when you look at the details, that is in fact what is, we believe is going to happen.

STEWARTAnd it has been their policy to release illegal immigrants who have committed very serious misdemeanors that do pose a public safety threat.

NNAMDIWhy do you say you feel that is their policy, to release undocumented immigrants who have committed serious crimes?

STEWARTBecause we have handed over, since 2007, we have handed over to the federal government, about 7,500 illegal immigrants who have committed crimes in our county. We have since re-apprehended about 10 percent of those and found out that they were released by the federal government. And some of them are pretty serious misdemeanors. Malicious wounding, domestic assault, sexual assault, indecent liberties with minors. And these are crimes, although they're not felonies, they obviously pose a public safety threat. And so that's my main concern and I think that's the main concern of the rest of the board.

NNAMDIBack us up for a second. Give us some context and explain Prince William County's own steps regarding deportation, your 2007 measure to check immigration status, when people are arrested. Tell us about that process. How does it work?

STEWARTWell, we have an agreement right now with the Department of Homeland Security, which is that once a person is pulled over for a crime. Now, it can't be just a traffic offense or anything like that, but an arrestable offense, we check for immigration status. And if it's determined that they're here illegally, we start the deportation process. It's called the 287G Program. After they've served their sentence for the underlying crime, they are handed over to ICE. And presumably for deportation.

STEWARTBut what we know now is that because of the lack of resources, ICE is simply releasing many of these people. And many of them have committed fairly serious crimes.

NNAMDIWell, on one hand, you say because of a lack of resources. On the other hand, you seem to think it's the Obama -- the Obama administration's policy. Which is it?

STEWARTWell, I mean, it's hard to say, but, you know, given the past policy of releasing people that have committed these crimes, there's no reason to believe that although the President says he doesn't want to release criminals, the fact is that they have been releasing criminals. And now, it looks like they're going to give them sanctuary. So, I do believe that, at the base level, there's not enough resources for the administration, for the Department of Homeland Security to deport, in a timely manner, those who have -- illegal immigrants who have committed crimes.

STEWARTOn a policy level, we're very concerned that now, we're not even going to be able to do that, cause they're going to be given sanctuary or amnesty. Whatever word you want to call, but they're going to be given a legal residence in the United States.

NNAMDIWe're exploring local perspectives on immigration. That's the voice of Corey Stewart. He's the Chair of the Prince William Board of County Supervisors. He joins us by phone, as does Victor Ramirez. He's a Maryland state Senator, a democrat from Prince George's County. You can join the conversation by calling 800-433-8850. How does the issue of immigration affect your community? You can also send email to kojo@wamu.org.

NNAMDIDelegate Ramirez, or Senator Ramirez, what is your reaction to the President's speech last week and his plan to give parents whose children are US citizens a temporary reprieve from the threat of deportation?

RAMIREZWell, I think it keeps families together. I would have to disagree with the gentleman from Prince William. This isn't amnesty, doesn't legalize any immigrants who are here unlawfully. It defers action, which does not confer any (unintelligible) immigration status. So, technically, and legally, I mean, it's not amnesty, because it doesn't provide a path to obtain a permanent residence or citizenship. Second, I think that the gentleman referred to saying that the criminals will be released. That's not true.

RAMIREZI think in the opinions of the Office of Legal Counsel from the Department of Homeland Security, it spells out that highest priority will be given to those who pose particularly serious threats to national security, border security and public safety. Which involved domestic violence, which involves serious crimes and it also includes serious misdemeanor crimes, such as driving, even driving while impaired, you can still be deported for those types of charges and convictions.

RAMIREZSo, the fact is that, and again, here we go again, oh, we're letting criminals out. We're releasing them out into the community. That is not true. It sets out that there's a priority. And it sets out the high -- the people who we do not want in our community, and that's the convicted criminals. But if you do not have a criminal record, and you have US born kids, you know what? Why not? Why not give them an opportunity to stay together? Because by deporting someone who hasn't done anything -- hasn't been convicted of a crime, what we're doing is we're separating families and we're hurting US born kids, US citizens.

RAMIREZAnd I think that it's a step in the right direction. I think this fear that we're letting criminals out loose, I think, to the contrary. Under this President, I think the border has been tightened at its highest. People have been deported at the highest rate, so I think we're doing -- can we do more? Of course we can do more at the border, but what we're trying to do is we're also trying to take care of US citizens. And in this case, children and their parents who happen not to be US citizens. But you know what, they still have responsibility and we still a responsibility to US citizens which happen to be children in this matter.

NNAMDICorey Stewart, on this matter of who is being released and who is not being released, can you explain what your county has attempted to do to the people who are -- to find out what happens to the people who are referred for deportation after they have served time for crimes? Can you explain your Freedom of Information Act requests and their status?

STEWARTYeah. So, we've submitted a series of FOIA requests, Freedom of Information Act requests, to the federal government, to find out exactly what the disposition was of the 7,500 individuals. And to this date, the federal government has steadfastly refused to tell us. They won't even tell our law enforcement officials. Or our jail officials, whether they have been released or whether they have been deported. And that obviously presents a significant problems. And I know what the President has said. And I know -- and you know what, he may very well believe in what he's saying.

STEWARTBut what we're seeing on the ground, in Prince William County, and I know from other jurisdictions as well, is that a lot of these individuals who we thought were going to be deported because they committed some fairly serious or violent crimes would be deported, were in fact, simply released. And so, that's our main concern.

NNAMDIHow do you know they've been released? Have any of them been re-arrested in Prince William County?

STEWARTYes, about 10 percent have been re-arrested. So, about 750 individuals have been re-arrested for subsequent crimes.

NNAMDIWe do have to move on, but that, I guess, is going to continue to be a question mark. Senator Ramirez, Maryland voters passed the so-called Dream Act in 2011, a measure that you sponsored in the General Assembly. Remind us of how it works and who is eligible for in state tuition under that law.

RAMIREZHow it works is for any high school student that would have been registered before the fall of 2011, and would have graduated from a Maryland high school, or graduates from a Maryland high school, attends a Maryland high school for at least three years, and graduates and gets a high school diploma or GED, which is the equivalent. The parents have been paying taxes. Filed a affidavit saying that when they are eligible to do so, they will apply for permanent residency within 30 days. And they have to comply with this selective service registration requirement.

RAMIREZThey will start off at our community colleges, and if they obtain the equivalence of an associate's degree, they will be able to transfer to a public four-year institution, such as Frostburg, Bowie State, University of Maryland.

NNAMDIMaryland also allows undocumented immigrants to apply for a driver's license that can be used as ID, except as entry to federal buildings. Who is eligible and how is that program going Senator Ramirez?

RAMIREZWell, I think it's going fine. We have approximately, about 38,000 -- we call them non-doc, real ID compliance driver's licenses and IDs. And then there's 38,000. There are identification cards and driver's license. Since the beginning of the year, we have -- our roads, we believe, are safer now. People are now passing their driving exam. People are getting car insurance. And people know the laws of the road. And I think it's going fine. The police -- every time I talk to the police department and they said how much easier it now is to traffic stop.

RAMIREZOr just any situation where they're able to identify an individual and then move on if they haven't committed anything -- any serious crime or if they're just investigating a scene. So, I think that law enforcement seems to think it's working great. We think, believe, it's working great as well, because we now have people on our roads and our roads are safer because they have now passed a driving exam and they're insured as well. And so I think it's going fine. We hope the people are taking advantage of it. And so from our point of view I think that it's going well and, you know, we have people buying more cars, buying more gasoline, contributing more to the economy, being able to drive their kids and their families in case of emergencies, being able to go to work.

RAMIREZAnd, you know, one of the things that I forgot to mention is, well, if you're applying for a driver's license just like, you know, and state tuition, you have to show that you are paying taxes here in the State of Maryland two years before you can even apply for a driver's license. So the whole idea is, hey, if you're contributing -- if you live in Maryland, you're contributing to Maryland's economy, you're paying taxes, we're going to treat you like a Maryland resident.

NNAMDIWhat we seem to be hearing here are two fundamental differences and approach to undocumented immigrants. Mr. Chairman Supervisor Corey Stewart, how would you characterize your county's attitude toward undocumented immigrants? Do you think there are still undocumented immigrants living in Prince William County? And if so, who are they, families, single workers?

STEWARTWell, absolutely there are. We have a -- since our policy was put in place in 2007, University of Virginia did a study to find out how that changed the demographics. And what we found was that the Latino population between counties continues to grow but that the mix has changed a little bit. And that now we have more families and fewer single men. And that's fine. We actually -- you know, that's been a good change. We also have more people who are here legally as opposed to illegally.

STEWARTYou know, I think that -- there is a middle ground here and I think there's a way for Democrats, Republicans and the president and congress to work together. And one of those things is -- I mean, I certainly would support opening the gate wider to allow more people to come here legally so that there's not this temptation to come here illegally. And certainly that would be a much improved immigration policy for the United States.

STEWARTBut to accompany that, you do need to make sure that you have interior enforcement to remove the bad characters, those people who are -- have a criminal mindset, who have been involved in gangs, anyone who's committed any sort of violent crime, they need to be removed. And by allowing more people to come in legally it would also give us a better chance to screen individuals to make sure we're not -- they're not carrying communicable disease or have a criminal background.

STEWARTSo I would just hope that the congress and the president get together and figure this out because what the president has done in the last couple days is not going to be long-lasting. I really probably isn't going to change things that much on the ground for illegal immigrants already here. They're already, for the most part, not acting. The administration is not deporting people who have not committed serious crimes, even at this point.

NNAMDIWe have a caller Roger in Rockville, Md. who would like to address this. Roger, you are on the air. Go ahead, please.

ROGERWell, thank you very much. Actually I had something different in mind but I think you're looking for a comment and questions about the local impact, correct?

NNAMDINo, go ahead with your question.

ROGERWell, okay. Well, there's several things and let's start at the local level. I want to know for things like the Dream Act, has anybody looked seriously at the tax costs, the cost to the government of allowing a lot more people into colleges, which is obviously going to put a strain on the capacity of these colleges, which is already very, very difficult to get into. And forget about College Park, you know. And allowing people to get in -- a huge number of people, a deep bulge, if you will, to get in. (unintelligible) ...

NNAMDIWell, let me ask -- wait a minute. Let me ask Victor Ramirez about that. Victor Ramirez, how is the Dream Act going in Maryland? Do you know how many undocumented students have enrolled in community college, because that's the first step in paid in-state tuition?

RAMIREZYes, actually I do have the numbers. And I'll go back from the summer of 2013 when we started keeping track, 125 students, fall of 2013 389. And then there was -- then in the spring of 2014, 345 students. And that's at the community colleges. At the four-years, 35 students as of spring 2014. So where this whole mass of people keep saying that we're going to have, you know, masses of people applying and taking and wasting government money.

RAMIREZBut again, you know, we have -- these students and their parents have to show that they're paying Maryland income taxes. And that's the whole basis for in-state tuition is that we want to make sure that people who live here and are benefitting from the services that we provide here in the State of Maryland. But ultimately the number is 345 spring of 2014 for community colleges and 35 at the public four-year institutions.

NNAMDIAnd Roger, I'm afraid we're running out of time so I won't be able to get to the other part of your question because I need to get a few other callers in on this conversation. Here now is Gary in Sterling, Va. Gary, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

GARYThank you, every one. I worked 15 years in 10 different restaurants as a handyman. And I asked back in '05 when President Bush was doing his guest worker program, immigration reform, I asked my amigos that I was working with what they wanted. And he didn't get back to me. He said, wait, let me ask -- talk to everybody. About four days later he came back to me and the first thing he said was, help with birth control.

NNAMDIWell, that was a...

GARYAnd I was really shocked. But he half of them...

NNAMDIThat was an unscientific poll that was probably limited to the restaurant you were working in. And we're running out of too much time to go into it. But both questions -- this question to both gentlemen, Corey Stewart and Victor Ramirez, how do you think this new -- the immigration debate will play out once the new congress takes office in January? Will we see national policies enacted or will states and counties continue to write their own rules? First you, Corey Stewart.

STEWARTWell, I don't think that it's -- what the president has done, it will not have lasting effect. I really don't think it's going to change de facto U.S. immigration policy at all since the administration has not been deporting. (unintelligible) ...

NNAMDIDo you think the Congress is going to take the matter up?

STEWARTI'm sorry.

NNAMDIDo you think the Congress will take the matter up?

STEWARTI think the Congress will take the matter up and, unfortunately, I think that the president's action has really added a level of acid to this debate where it's going to be nearly impossible for the two sides to come together and come up with a common sense immigration policy.

NNAMDIVictor Ramirez, same question to you.

RAMIREZWell, I think that -- you know, I think the president's waited on Congress to take action. And he's waited six plus years. Next year will be his final -- in his eight years. And I hope that the new Congress takes it up and I hope that they realize that the -- you know, that the American people need immigration reform. We need strength at the border, but we also need a practical solution to our problem right now with immigration. It's broken. We need Congress to step in and to pass legislation that's going to be practical, that's going to unify families and it's going to keep our economy growing.

NNAMDIVictor Ramirez is a Maryland State Senator. He's a Democrat from Prince George's County. Senator Ramirez, thank you for joining us.

RAMIREZThank you so much.

NNAMDICorey Stewart is chair of the Prince William board of counties supervisors. Mr. Chairman, thank you for joining us.

STEWARTThank you.

NNAMDIWe're going to take a short break. When we come back, it's Your Turn to talk about whatever's on your mind, Bill Cosby, sexual assault at the University of Virginia, Marion Barry, the Secretary of Defense stepping down, anything on your mind. Start calling now, 800-433-8850 or send email to kojo@wamu.org. It's Your Turn. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.