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For those who shop at farmers’ markets and try to eat local produce, winter presents a challenge. But just because fresh fruits and vegetables are out of season doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy summer’s bounty all year round. From making chutney and jam to canning your own tomato sauce, preserving at home is enjoying a renaissance. Some are taking the trend further, making their own yogurt, cheese and even cured meats. Whether you’re a beginner or expert, we share recipes and techniques for an all-season pantry.
- Cathy Barrow Author, "Mrs Wheelbarrow's Practical Pantry"
- Maureen Moodie Co-owner, Moutoux Orchard
Asian-Style Plum Sauce
Excerpted from “Mrs. Wheelbarrow’s Practical Pantry: Recipes and Techniques for Year-Round Preserving” by Cathy Barrow (released Nov. 3 2014). Reprinted with permission from W. W. Norton & Company.
From Moutoux Orchard
What is fermentation? The chemical breakdown of a substance by bacteria, yeast, or other microorganisms
Kimchi (for 1 quart)
1 week (or longer)
1 pound chinese cabbage
1 daikon or a few red radishes
1 to 2 carrots
1 to 2 onions or leeks or scallions
3 to 4 cloves garlic
3 to 4 red hot chilis
3 Tbs (or more) ginger
Note: the initial brine should be about 4 cups water and 4 Tbs salt
Kombucha: sweetened black tea cultured with a “mother” (scoby), a gelatinous colony of bacteria and yeast.
About 7-10 days
1 quart water
¼ cup sugar
1 Tbs black tea (or 3 teabags)
½ cup scoby
1.Mix water and sugar and bring to a boil to dissolve sugar
2.Turn off heat, add tea and let steep for 15 minutes
3.Strain in to glass container and allow tea to cool
4.Add the mature kombucha (when you get a scoby, it will be stored in this liquid. Save a portion of subsequent batches for this purpose)
5.Place the scoby in the liquid with the firm opaque side up
6.Cover with a cloth and store in the dark, ideally between 70-85 degrees
7.After a few days to 1 week, taste. The longer it sits, the more acidic it will become.
8.Store the mature batch in the fridge when it reaches the acidity you like. Each batch will give you a new mother.
Kefir:fermented milk made with “grains” (colonies of yeast and bacteria that look like curds)
Makes 1 quart
1 quart milk
1 Tbs Kefir grains
1.Fill jar with milk, about 2/3 full. Add kefir grains and cap
2.Leave at room temperature for 24-36 hours, agitating jar periodically. Milk will become bubbly, then coagulate and separate. Remix by shaking.
3.Strain out the grains and enjoy or refrigerate and enjoy in a few days!
4.Grains will grow and multiply over time. You only need a tablespoon per batch, so save some for future batches, give them away, or add to the compost.
MR. KOJO NNAMDILate summer and fall are a great time to buy fresh fruits and vegetables. Local tomatoes, peaches, corn, squash, peppers, apples and so much more are all in season and abundant right now. In fact, too abundant. How many peaches and tomatoes can you eat in one week? At the same time, you know you'll miss it when the cold winds start to blow and that bounty is gone, unless you can preserve it like canning, pickling or fermenting it. And if canning your own tomatoes sounds intimidating, fear not.
MR. KOJO NNAMDIOur guests today have techniques for all levels because joining us in studio is Cathy Barrow. She is the author of "Mrs. Wheelbarrow's Practical Pantry: Recipes and Techniques for Year-Round Preserving," which comes out in November. It can be preordered. Cathy has also written a series for the Washington Post food section called "The Canning Class" which you can find in today's edition of the Washington Post. Cathy Barrow joins us in studio. Welcome. Thank you for joining us.
MS. CATHY BARROWNice to be here. Thank you.
NNAMDIAnd before we go any farther, what have you brought me here today?
BARROWWell, I brought you pimento cheese-stuffed celery.
NNAMDIYes. I already tasted that.
BARROWAnd that includes my candied chilies, homemade pimentos and homemade cream cheese. And then the deviled eggs, you have some sweet pickles. And then we turn to the sweet side and there are two kinds of rugala and a jam tart.
NNAMDIAnd the liqueur.
BARROWYes. There's a little plum liqueur called slivovitz just to, you know, clean the palate.
NNAMDIWhy don't we just abandon this broadcast right now and just get to eating and -- oh, no. We first have to speak with Maureen Moodie. She co-owns and operates Moutoux Orchard with Rob Moutoux, her fiancé, soon to be her husband. They'll be married this Saturday. Congratulations in advance. Maureen Moodie joins us by phone from Purcellville, Va. Maureen, thank you for joining us.
MS. MAUREEN MOODIEThank you so much for having me, Kojo. I love your show.
NNAMDIThank you and I'll be gate-crashing your wedding. Cathy, the concept of preserving is very broad. What does that include?
BARROWIt includes canning, pressure canning, charcuterie, smoking, brining, cheese-making, fermenting, dehydrating. And that's just the beginning.
NNAMDIMaureen, on the farm you run with your fiancé, what do you preserve?
MOODIEJust about anything that we can, particularly things like fruit and tomatoes and cucumber pickles and squash pickles, things that we have a total overabundance of during the summer months.
NNAMDICathy, how'd you get interested in the idea of preserving foods and where'd your nickname Mrs. Wheelbarrow in the title of the book come from? By the way, Cathy will be talking about her book in conversation with Bonnie Benwick on November 3 at 6th and I. You can find a link on our website kojoshow.org to that event. But where'd your nickname Mrs. Wheelbarrow come from?
BARROWI had to marry Dennis Barrow to get it, but I was...
NNAMDIWell, people have been married for more frivolous reasons than that I'm sure.
BARROWThis is true. I was a landscape designer before I began writing. And that's the name that I gave my landscape company.
NNAMDIYou got knee deep in canning for another environmental reason, packaging. Talk about that.
BARROWIt became clear to me at some point that we had far too many plastic containers in our house. And when I realized that the yogurt or the salads that I picked up at the grocery store or even the jars of tomatoes and other things that I was picking up, were just filling up my recycling container. And while it's good to recycle that, I wanted not to have it at all. And when I realized I could make a lot of those foods myself and put them in glass jars, I felt a lot better about it.
NNAMDIIf you'd like to join the conversation, give us a call at 800-433-8850. Do you do any canning, preserving or pickling? What tips do you have for canning fruits and vegetables, 800-433-8850. Or you can send email to email@example.com or send us a tweet @kojoshow or You started canning and preserving as another way to support small farmers like Maureen beyond the farmer's market.
BARROWYes. I began to understand that when I was wanting to eat local during the summer, it was really convenient and easy. But come winter I was no longer able to eat locally. I wanted to support local farmers. I wanted to give them my business. And by preserving those foods and eating them in the winter I was keeping the money right in our local community.
NNAMDIYou went from basic preserving, things we're familiar with, fruit, jams, pickles, to an expanded view of preserving. There's a preserve meat and fish section in this book.
BARROWThat's true. I like to smoke salmon. I make my own bresaola by hanging eye of round in my garage for three weeks every winter. I make pancetta and bacon. I also smoke oysters. I smoke cheeses. And so it's a wonderful thing to expand your cooking beyond just the stove.
NNAMDIOkay. Many foods we buy in the supermarket also have lots of additives. What's in prepackaged foods like a can of beans or yogurt that we might not want -- might not expect?
BARROWYou might find that there's sugar in a lot of them and multisyllabic chemicals that I don't even know what they are. So in my foods it's really just that food that you want.
NNAMDIMaureen, the farm you run out in Purcellville, Va., tell us a little bit about Moutoux Orchard and what you do there.
MOODIEYeah, Moutoux Orchard is actually a third generation family farm that I'm lucky enough to be marrying into this coming weekend. They traditionally grew fruit, mainly peaches and apples in both Vienna, Va. and Purcellville, Va. We have since expanded the business. And what we do is what we call a full year, full diet CSA program. I'm sure you've heard of community supported agriculture programs before. I know you've talked about them on your show.
MOODIEOurs is a little bit different in that we go full year. And by full diet we try to meet the needs of sort of the whole spectrum. So we raise livestock. We have dairy cows and we do liquid milk and yogurt every week. We also grow, you know, 40 different kinds of vegetables. We grow fruit and then we grow some grain and mill flour. And our members come out to the farm every week and shop with us just like they would at a farmer's market. But they are sort of members of the farm for the entire year.
NNAMDIFor those of our Food Wednesday listeners who may be unfamiliar with CSAs it's community supported agriculture where you support a farm or farms. And in return every week or two weeks you get a selection of the produce. We're talking with Maureen Moodie. She co-owns and operates Moutoux Orchard with Rob Moutoux her fiancé in Purcellville, Va. She joins us by phone from Purcellville.
NNAMDIJoining us in our studio is Cathy Barrow. She is the author of "Mrs. Wheelbarrow's Practical Pantry: Recipes and Techniques for Year-Round Preserving." That book comes out in November but it can be preordered. Cathy also has written a series for the Washington Post food section called The Canning Class. You can find that in today's paper. You can find your way into this conversation right now by calling 800-433-8850. Do you have any questions about preserving, canning or pickling, 800-433-8850? You can send email to firstname.lastname@example.org.
NNAMDIMaureen, many people love the idea of getting a box of fresh seasonal produce each week but that means abundance for just a short period each year of any given vegetable or fruit. So you encourage people to preserve what they can't use, right?
MOODIEAbsolutely. We sort of overproduce on our farm on purpose. We want people to be able to make cucumber pickles if they want or to make tomato sauce and can that. We encourage people to both can and freeze and dehydrate, sort of the whole gamut of preservation techniques. So if our members would like it in the summertime, they can take home crates of cucumbers or crates of tomatoes so that they can can at home and preserve for the wintertime.
NNAMDIAnd something we don't often think about when we talk about preserving, the easiest and foolproof technique, freezing. You encourage people to freeze fresh produce right now.
MOODIEAbsolutely. Everyone knows they are a member of our CSA when they buy an auxiliary freezer You can freeze peppers, you can freeze tomatoes. You can -- if you're intimidated by canning, you can make tomato sauce and freeze that. You can freeze vegetable soup in the summertime. We do a great summer squash puree soup that we freeze that's wonderful in the dead of the winter. So I encourage people who are a little bit intimidated by canning to go ahead and freeze it.
NNAMDIWhat are you pushing bell peppers right now?
MOODIEWe have entirely too many. We're harvesting upwards of 100 pounds of bell peppers every day.
NNAMDIYou recommend freezing cherry tomatoes. Most people think of tomatoes as a no-no for refrigeration or freezing. Tell us how freezing cherry tomatoes works and how you can use those tomatoes later.
MOODIESo if you freeze cherry tomatoes just on a tray in your freezer and then you can bag them later, that will cut down on some of the ice that will be in the bag. But they don't maintain their shape once they're defrosted in the wintertime, but you can throw them in soups or a sauce. And you get that wonderful summer tomato flavor that you're missing in the dead of winter just from your freezer.
NNAMDIAnd before freezing some vegetables, Maureen, you recommend blanching. What does that mean and why do you do it?
MOODIESo for things like green beans in particular, I throw them in boiling water for just about 30 seconds and then flash cool them in ice water. And that helps maintain their crispness and their color once they're frozen in the wintertime. You get a nice green bean when you defrost them in the winter.
NNAMDISo there goes that. And we got a tweet from a name that you would be familiar with, Cathy Barrow. Joe Yonan wants me to ask Mrs. Wheelbarrow about her seven-day pickle. Joe Yonan of course of the Washington Post. He says it's his favorite.
BARROWThat's what you find inside those deviled eggs right there. And seven-day pickle is a common recipe in the Mennonite community and also down south. But when I had it, my grandmother's housekeeper made them. And I thought that I had the only recipe in the world. So imagine my surprise when I went through the Amish market and found the seven-day pickle there.
NNAMDIJoe Yonan, you should know that even though you can get over here on Metro, before you get here I will have already eaten the deviled eggs with the seven-day pickles. So don't even try it. We're going to take a short break. When we come back, we'll be continuing our conversation about preserves and canning and taking your calls at 800-433-8850. How do you use foods that you have preserved, 800-433-8850? You can send email to email@example.com or shoot us a tweet @kojoshow. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.
NNAMDIWelcome back to our Food Wednesday conversation on preserves and canning. We're talking with Cathy Barrow author of "Mrs. Wheelbarrow's Practical Pantry: Recipes and Techniques for Year-Round Preserving." It comes out in November. It can be preordered. She joins us in studio. Joining us by phone from Purcellville, Va. is Maureen Moodie, co-owner and operator of Moutoux Orchard with Rob Moutoux her fiancé, soon to be her husband. They're getting married this Saturday.
NNAMDICathy Barrow will be talking about her book in conversation with Bonny Benwick on November 3 at 6th and I. You can find a link at our website kojoshow.org to the event. You can go there to ask a question or make a comment, or call us at 800-433-8850. Cathy, a lot of people are intimidated by the idea of canning and preserving. How would you advise someone who wants to give it a try?
BARROWI would start with jam or pickles. Either one of those is super easy, and there's nothing that can go wrong in terms of safety. Certainly your pickles might be a little mushy but you'll learn. Your jam might be a little runny but you learn. This is how you learn. It takes practice.
NNAMDIPractice makes perfect. Maureen, you would agree, there are some things that are easier and safer to can. For people who are new to the game, what do you recommend for beginning canners?
MOODIEI totally agree. Things -- well, two things. One, things that are high acid, so things like, you know, jam and fruit or pickles that are in vinegar, things that, you know, bacteria can't actually live in. Tomatoes are another high-acidic food. They just require a little bit more preparation before you can. But I also encourage people to try things that they actually want to eat. So if you like dill pickles, then make dill cucumber pickles. But if you're not going to eat them over the wintertime so find things that you know you like and try some of the vinegar pickles or tomatoes first I think.
NNAMDICathy, it's fortunate because this is the season for tomatoes. You've got a whole section in your book on tomato, salsa, ketchup, hot sauce What are some of the basics when it comes to canning tomatoes?
BARROWI do two types of canned tomatoes. Probably the one I do most is crushed tomatoes. That's what's in the Post today. It's simply peeled, seeded and crushed with your hands and put into a jar. And that replaces a canned tomato in a recipe for me all winter long. I'll put up about 400 pounds of tomatoes before the end of the summer.
NNAMDIWhat about special equipment?
BARROWNo special equipment needed for that.
NNAMDIOn then to other people's questions. Here's Marjorie in Arlington, Va. Marjorie, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.
MARJORIEOh, I'm staring at eggplants that are doing very, very well this year and also eating baba ghanoush. And I don't think I want to eat a whole lot more baba ghanoush. And I was wondering if you all had any ideas for what to do with eggplant. And thanks for the show.
BARROWI don't do a lot with eggplant in jars because it's not a very high acid vegetable so it's a little difficult to can. I have frozen eggplant and have not been thrilled with that result. So eat while you've got it.
MOODIEI got okay luck but I sort of agree, grilling it first, grilling or roasting it first and then freezing it. And that's really good if you're going to make like a crock pot full of curry in the wintertime. That's where I would throw that in.
NNAMDIWell, Marjorie, good luck to you.
MARJORIEThank you. Thank you.
NNAMDIWe move on to Kevin in Washington, D.C. Kevin, your turn.
KEVINHey, Kojo. Big fan. I just wanted to get a little bit of insight to the listeners about some alternative things to do with, like, summer squash or zucchini. I know with my CSA last year with Great Country Farms, we would get probably five weeks in a row just of like ridiculous amounts of summer squash.
KEVINSo my wife and I would spiralize it turning it into almost like vegetable noodles. And we very quickly blanched it in salt water and then immediately put it in an ice bath, dry it off real well and then kind of ball it up into, like, little nests and put it in a Food Saver or Cryovac. And you could freeze it like that. And it would be good for definitely through the winter. And it's also really good, like, gluten-free alternative. You know, very low carbohydrate alternative to pasta. And that's it. Thanks.
NNAMDIThank you very much for your call. Care to comment on that, Cathy?
BARROWI'd like to comment on the Cryovac or the Food Saver. That's a great tool for any preserver to have. It's a wonderful thing to do with squash.
NNAMDII mentioned special equipment earlier and you had mentioned that the tomatoes didn't need any, but what are the go-to tools, Maureen, that you have on hand?
MOODIEFor me it's a seven-quart water bath canner which essentially is just a very large stew pot that I can heat up to boil. I also think that a canning rack is quite helpful. So you have to have something against the bottom of the bottom so that your jars aren't sitting right on the bottom. That's how they can potentially crack. And I think that canning tongs are a really great thing to have. It makes it very easy to pick jars up out of hot boiling water because the liquid in the jars is boiling when they come out of there. So I think that keeps it a little bit safer.
NNAMDIHere is Mark in Chevy Chase, Md. Mark, your turn.
MARKHi. Cathy, thanks for all you're doing in the Post. It's really very exciting. I've been canning all my life since my great grandmother taught me when I was ten years old. And one of the things that is obviously a big turnoff to a lot of people are the horrible stories that end up being headlines about botulism and various other problems with canning. Can you two demystify that for people so more will start canning?
NNAMDII'm so glad you brought that issue up, Mark, because he's right, one of the big reasons people are intimidated by canning is that they fear they could poison themselves or others by doing something wrong.
BARROWThat's right. I think that's my friend Mark Talisman who just called. And botulism is terrifying. It's a very frightening thing. And here's the first thing that you should remember. Use trusted recipes. People tell me they're afraid of canning and I just want to say, if you use a trusted recipe and don't go off the rails, you're going to be safe. High-acid foods, as Maureen mentioned, fruits and certain vegetables are great, and vinegar-based pickles. That's what you need to keep in mind.
BARROWAdding garlic, adding peppers, adding onions, adding mushrooms to your tomato sauce because you want to make grandma's tomato sauce and put it in a jar, that's immediately going to make yourself a botulism stew.
NNAMDIThank you very much for your call, Mark, friend of Cathy. Here now is Rachaun in Mount Airy, Md. Rachaun, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.
RACHAUNHi. Thanks for the show. I've canned since I was knee deep in the basement peeling peaches. And here's my question. Now that I live out of the Midwest and I'm in Mount Airy area, I see a lot of people getting back into canning and natural foods. What do you think is driving the market? Is it the local folks getting involved, the bi-local movements? Is it the gluten-free stuff? Is it the food channels and general awareness driving it?
MOODIEI think one of the things is people are just becoming more concerned about what is in their food and where it's coming from. And if you prepare your own food at home, you can be very sure of what's going in there. For people who are concerned about high sugar or high salt, you can sort of control those things which you can't control if you're buying preprocessed food. And I think there's sort of a reconnection. People want to reconnect to the local community and their local environment around them.
NNAMDIWhat do you think, Cathy?
BARROWI think that the local movement has a lot to do with it and the desire to get rid of sugar and additives in the foods.
NNAMDIMaureen, fermenting is another way to preserve foods and you recommend people who make Kimchi, which is a Korean dish of fermented cabbage. Is Kimchi difficult to make?
MOODIEI don't think so. I think that it can be relatively easy. It's just having some things on hand that we're lucky enough to have on hand here at the farm. We grow things that I can make Kimchi with, so I make sure that every year I grow Napa cabbage and I grow Daikon radishes and we grow Thai peppers so that I can make my own Kimchi here. We do have to buy ginger. That's the only thing we don't grow. And I think you must have ginger in your Kimchi. But we just ferment it in five-gallon buckets in our kitchen. And essentially the liquid that comes out of the cabbage becomes the brine for the Kimchi itself.
MOODIESo it does take a little bit of process for the first day while you have to let the vegetables sit. But then it just sits in your kitchen for a couple of weeks while you let it ferment.
NNAMDIYou should know that if you go to our website kojoshow.org you can find Maureen's Kimchi recipe. Maureen, we got a tweet from Shaywir who says, "Regarding canning and fermenting, any advice on where to get molds for fermenting vegetables Japanese style?"
MOODIEI have never actually used -- purchased mold from anywhere. I just rely on the air to bring yeast into my ferments for me. So I actually don't know where you could buy them around here.
NNAMDIOh, I'm sorry about that. Shaywir but Cathy, most people think vegetables and fruits when they think about preserves. But cured meats became an obsessions for you. How'd you end up going, well, whole hog on this preserving thing? You even make your own hotdogs.
BARROWI have, that's true. About four years ago I started a blogger challenge with another friend of mine called Charcutepalooza and it was a year-long challenge to learn to make charcuterie using Michael Roman's book "Charcuterie." And it was through that that I learned to cure and ferment and make all kinds of sausages and hotdogs and cured meats and (word?) It was great.
NNAMDIThat's why if there's anything you want to know about preserving and about canning, you can call right now, 800-433-8850 or send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. Here is Jenna in Gainesville, Va. Jenna, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.
JENNAHi. I actually had a question for Maureen. Earlier you said you blanch your green beans and freeze them and that works really well for you. And I've actually had a lot of difficulty with that. I've blanched them, put then in ice water, dried them off, froze them and then they come out really waterlogged. I've taken them straight from the garden into my -- the vacuum bag machine and then they came out really mushy. And I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong.
MOODIEHum. Well, what I definitely like to do is make sure that I'm not boiling them for very long. I'm talking maybe 20 seconds and then in a very, very cold ice bath I think is the best way. And then I freeze all of my things on just baking sheets in the freezer before I put them in bags. And that really cuts down on some of the water that will be in the bag. And you're not going to get a crisp summer green bean once they've been frozen unfortunately. They always are going to be a little bit mushier. So I tend to put them in stir fries or in soups and not eat them plain so I can sort of, you know, get over that it's not quite the same summer vegetable.
JENNAThank you very much. And have fun this weekend.
NNAMDIThank you very much for your call. They will have fun since I'm gate crashing. And...
MOODIEWe'd love for you to come. You can try all the pickles we'll be serving.
NNAMDIThat spoils everything. Now I'm invited. I can't gate crash anymore. But we did mention that you can find Maureen's Kimchi recipe on our website kojoshow.org. There you will also find Cathy's Asian style plum sauce from her book at the website kojoshow.org. Cathy, you even make your own cheese and yogurt and other things dairy-related. Now that's intimidating. Talk about how and why you decided to do that.
BARROWI realized that I was purchasing mascarpone, ricotta, sour cream, creme fraiche. And it just, like, became interesting to me to see if I could make it. And I can. And so it's another product that I don't have to buy in a plastic container.
NNAMDIIs it difficult to make yogurt and cheese?
BARROWNot at all. It's remarkably simple. And often it takes nothing more than a lemon or a little white vinegar to turn milk into ricotta cheese, for instance.
NNAMDIFor some people, the idea of all this work and then ending up with ten jars of jam or chutney is, well, too much. But you realize there are great ways to use what's in your pantry. Can you talk about how to make the most of what you've preserved throughout the year?
BARROWWell, Maureen made a really good point when she said don't ever make anything that you don't want to eat. And that's the beginning. But I also make products that I know I will use in recipes. The Asian style plum sauce, for instance, I use with pork tenderloin or pork chops. And I make it...
NNAMDIHow is it made, yeah?
BARROWHow do I make the plum sauce?
BARROWWell, it's made with those nice dark fall plums, the ovoid ones that are very flavorful and sweet. And I add ginger and garlic and mustard seed and a chili and some vinegar and sugar. And that's the sauce.
NNAMDIMaureen, a practical thing for many people who preserve so as not to have too much of any particular item, trading what you've preserved with others.
MOODIEYeah, we -- out here I think people trade all the time. Our CSA members bring us pickles. I give them jars from my pantry. And we all exchange recipes. And we even get together with friends from time to time and do sort of big canning parties, which really cuts down on a lot of the labor. So you can all chop together and preserve together and then everyone can take some home for their pantry.
MOODIEIn October every year also at the Blue Ridge Center for Environmental studies out in Purcellville, there is a barter fair. And anyone's welcome to come. There's tons of D.C. people that come and bring anything that they've made. It can be bread, it can be jam, it can be pickles, whatever you want. And everyone sort of meets there and trades for the winter.
NNAMDII've been saying Purcellville all along. You just said Purcellville. It's Purcellville, isn't it?
MOODIEPurcellville's how the locals say it, I think.
NNAMDIPurcellville. There happens to be a homeboy of mine who was mayor of Purcellville, but that's a long story. We'll get into it another time. Maureen Moodie, co-owns and operates Moutoux Orchard with Rob Moutoux, her fiancé. They will be married this Saturday. Are you getting married in Purcellville?
MOODIEWe are getting married on the farm. And we grew and raised all the animals for the wedding.
NNAMDIOn the farm in Purcellville. Maureen, thank you so much for joining us. Good luck to you and Rob.
MOODIEThank you so much. I love your show, Kojo.
NNAMDIThank you. Cathy Barrow is the author of "Mrs. Wheelbarrow's Practical Pantry: Recipes and Techniques for Year-Round Preserving." It's coming out in November. It can be preordered. Cathy, thank you so much for joining us.
NNAMDIAnd thank you all for listening. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.
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