MR. KOJO NNAMDIFrom WAMU 88.5 at American University in Washington, welcome to "The Kojo Nnamdi Show," connecting your neighborhood with the world. They're a source of great pride for the city, the universities that call the District of Columbia home, but as major landowners in bustling neighborhoods, they can also be a less pleasant source of noise, traffic and late-night partying for the residents who live close by. So, every 10 years, the District requires its universities to spell out what physical changes they're planning on campus in the coming decade and win the approval of the city's zoning commission for any new construction.

MR. KOJO NNAMDITwo of the city's biggest schools have drafted plans that are now going up for public review. American University is heeding the call for more student housing with a plan to build new dorms on its campus in Northwest D.C., and at Georgetown University, a planned student center is designed to offer undergrads an appealing spot to hang out on campus rather than in the adjoining neighborhoods. As the citywide review process begins, educators and D.C. residents are trying to balance students' needs with community concerns. Joining us in studio to talk about this is Jorge Abud, assistant vice president for facilities development and real estate at American University. Jorge, thank you for joining us.

MR. JORGE ABUDGood to be here.

NNAMDIAlso with us is Todd Olson, vice president for student affairs and dean of students at Georgetown University. Todd Olson, thank you for joining us.

MR. TODD OLSONThanks for the opportunity.

NNAMDIYou can join this conversation. I know a number of you are anxious to. You even contacted us before the show even got started. The number is 800-433-8850. You can send e-mail to us at kojo@wamu.org, send us a tweet @kojoshow, or simply go to our website, kojoshow.org, join the conversation there. Jorge Abud, every 10 years, universities in the District of Columbia have to draw up a new campus plan that maps out any plans for growth. How has American University changed in the last decade, and what's the top priority in your new campus plan?

ABUDI think one of the most important things in terms of how A.U. has changed over the last 10 years is continued emphasis on quality and actually achieving much greater quality not only in the students that we attract, but also in the whole variety of the programs that we offer. And so a lot of the focus of our campus plan is to improve the quality of our facilities to support the academic programs and our students.

NNAMDITodd Olson, same question. What are the biggest changes at Georgetown in the past decade, and how have they affected the physical needs of the campus?

OLSONSure. Well, on our campus, Kojo, we are focused on some key goals, some of which are perennial, some of which are emerging for us, a focus on academic excellence and being one of the strongest universities in the region. The country remains important to us. Building a strong and vibrant on-campus community life is important. As you mentioned, our new student center is one manifestation of that. Seeing that we are environmentally the best citizens we can be is an emerging emphasis of ours, and we're committed to some new initiatives there. And we also want to be positive neighbors and contributors in the District.

NNAMDIGeorgetown's campus plan does not call for a lot of new construction but does propose to renovate a dining facility to convert it into a student center, the goal being to create a gathering place for undergraduates?

OLSONRight. In the building called New South, one of our older residence halls on campus, we've indentified a space to build what we think will be a very appealing new student center, spaces for large student events, including late-night events, dining, gathering, student media. In fact, our student radio show, some folks who wanna follow in your path are pursuing that. And we really believe this will not only be very appealing to our students and strengthen our community but also will provide alternatives to some of the off-campus socializing that our students do.

NNAMDIJorge Abud, American University is proposing to tear down most of the buildings on its Tenley Campus to make room for a new law school. Why do you want to move the law school from its current location on Massachusetts Avenue?

ABUDThere are a couple of reasons. The law school has outgrown its current facilities, and that happened about four or five years ago. And since that time, we've been leasing space for them in nearby office buildings near the law school's current location. And so we do need to expand, and they cannot expand in their current location. And the Tenley Campus makes a great deal of sense to us because the law school population is entirely commuter. We don't provide any housing for law school students.

ABUDAnd being a block away from a Metro station, we think is of significant importance. As Todd mentioned, we also have significant sustainability goals. We plan to be carbon neutral by the year 2020 and encouraging use of public transportation, and facilitating that use is a significant part of how we achieve that goal. And putting the law school with a significant commuter population a block away from Metro, we think, supports that.

NNAMDIIn case you're just joining us, we're talking with officials from both Georgetown University and American University about their plans for how they are likely to expand in terms of accommodating the expanding needs of students. We're taking your calls at 800-433-8850. Todd Olson is vice president for student affairs and dean of students at Georgetown University, and Jorge Abud is assistant vice president for facilities development and real estate at American University. Jorge, American University's plan calls for a 13 percent growth in the student body in the coming decade. Most of the increase would be in the law school and other graduate programs. What's the projection for student enrollment in this plan in terms of total numbers?

ABUDIn terms of total numbers, what we're projecting our population will be in the year 2020 is 13,600. Today, we're about 2,000 below that, and, as you said, the planned growth is really mostly in the law school and particularly in graduate enrolment. That's where we expect to see the highest amount of growth. There's very little, about 1 percent, growth in the undergraduate population.

NNAMDITodd Olson, Georgetown is proposing to expand some of its graduate programs and to freeze the number of undergraduates on campus. Where would the expansion occur, and what would that mean for your overall student population?

OLSONSure. What we're proposing, Kojo, as you said, is to keep our undergraduate and our medical school populations the same as we go forward. We believe they're at an appropriate level at this point. Growth in graduate students is important for us. Many of our graduate students are local D.C. and area residents. There's real demand for the kinds of programs, both the master's and the Ph.D. and professional levels, we offer. We want to meet that demand. We want to do so in a way that aligns with our academic goals as an institution as well. And so it will be a variety of different programs, some in our School of Continuing Studies, some in our other graduate units on our campus. And so I think those are the key points.

NNAMDIGeorgetown plan -- the Georgetown plan would allow for additions to the medical center's academic and research facilities. What can we expect at the Georgetown hospital and medical facilities?

OLSONSure. We are in conversations with officials from MedStar Health, our partners who run the Georgetown University Hospital, and talking with them about their long-term interests. We certainly want to see that there's a high quality hospital there, and that's an important partner for us. In terms of the facilities at our medical center, we want to make sure that what we're doing in terms of medical research and the finest graduate education for our existing medical students is accommodated by those improvements.

NNAMDIDo you live near American University or Georgetown? Are there changes you'd like to see those schools make on campus? Call us, 800-433-8850, or go to our website, kojoshow.org, join the conversation there. Jorge Abud, both A.U. and Georgetown addressed student housing in their plans, and each of your schools got a different reaction from your neighbors regarding new dorms. Georgetown residents want more on-campus housing, so fewer students live in the community, and American University's neighbors wanted new residence halls to be smaller than originally proposed. American University wants to add 700 more beds on campus.

NNAMDII was about to ask about where they would be but allow me to have Betsy in Northwest Washington ask that question. Gentlemen, please don your headphones so you can hear the callers. Here is Betsy. You're on the air. Go ahead, please.

BETSYHello. Yes, I'm a neighbor, and I am wondering where exactly these units will be located. And I would also want to make a comment. Why doesn't A.U. instead of adding to the traffic growth and the crowding that we have on Wisconsin Avenue, and we are going to have a new giant development -- a giant (word?) on Wisconsin? It's going to add hundreds more units. I mean, this place is getting unlivable with the new plans, at least. And why not go to a place like Anacostia or, you know...

NNAMDIWell, allow me...

BETSY...Brentwood or...

NNAMDIAllow me to have Jorge Abud respond because where that campus is located, and we have parked there at -- when we were having our own parking facilities repaired here. I suspect one of the reasons it's chosen because it's so close to Metro.

ABUDThat is true. The Metro is only about a block away from our Tenley Campus, and, as I said before, it really is important to promote the use of public transportation and Metro in particular. And we see many of our law school students, faculty and staff walking to the Metro and using that as a method or using the bus service that's along Nebraska Avenue and Wisconsin as well.

ABUDTo answer the question about the location of our housing, we proposed housing in four different locations. The largest number, 770 beds, being at the East Campus, the site of what is now a large parking lot on Nebraska Avenue, but we're also proposing housing as an addition to Nebraska Hall and on the north end of the campus proper and the south end of the campus proper. So part of what we are doing is spreading it out and putting it in what we think are appropriate locations. One of the issues -- the most significant issue that's come up in terms of housing has been the 770 beds that's proposed for the East Campus, and some of the community members that live close to that location are concerned about that level of activity that will be generated by that housing.

NNAMDIBetsy, do you live close to the proposed Tenley Campus or Tenley housing?

BETSYI live a stone's throw from Ward Circle, and it is already extremely crowded there. And I'm wondering about emergency vehicles during rush hour. Sometimes, I can't get out of my driveway, so I'm wondering what is -- you know, you add 170 more units right at that parking lot. I know exactly where he's talking about. And it used to be woods when I was younger. And, again, this is a very crowded part of the city. There are many parts of the city that needs redevelopment, and I don't know why A.U. cannot have satellite campuses and help some of the inner-city neighborhoods. I work in Anacostia.

NNAMDIAllow me to have Jorge...

BETSYI work in Southeast.

NNAMDIAllow me to have Jorge...

BETSYWhy not? (unintelligible).

NNAMDIAllow me to have Jorge Abud respond to that. I did see -- read something about traffic on Ward Circle, but Betsy wants to know why can't you go farther afield?

ABUDWell, it -- certainly, concerns about traffic congestion, it's something we hear about a lot and discuss in -- amongst ourselves. It is true that both Nebraska Avenue and Massachusetts Avenue are heavily congested during the rush hours. Most of that traffic is not generated by A.U. In particular in the morning rush hour, we only account for about 3 to 4 percent of that traffic volume, because our times of operation are really spread throughout the day and because of the significant number of people who live on the campus. So our plans when we've done projections of what the traffic will be and what our impact on the streets will be -- and those show that our plans will not have any impact on the surrounding traffic.

ABUDThat doesn't get rid of commuter traffic that goes by every day, and there's not very much we can do about that. We are located where we are. We think we have land that's available to expand, and it's important for our programs to be closely linked together physically. And that's the primary reason we really have not looked to build satellite campuses across the city.

NNAMDIWell, we should let our listeners know that there are a lot of neighborhood concerns about these plans. This is the beginning of a broadcast process that we are participating here, so we will be continuing this conversation in a later broadcast. And so the best ways for citizens to weigh in with their concerns are myriad, but this is just one of them. Having said that, here is Lenore, who I think is Lenore Rubino, who is president of the Burleith students association on the Georgetown plan. Lenore, thank you for joining us. You're on the air. Go ahead, please.

MS. LENORE RUBINOYes. Good afternoon, Kojo, and thank you for having this very important conversation. I'm president of the Burleith Citizens Association. We're a small neighborhood adjacent to Georgetown University. We've been involved in many conversations with Georgetown University, with the hope that they would change their plan. Their plan, we feel, in no way addresses the adverse impacts of added traffic, added rental houses, density, noise, parking demand. The rental homes are in full repair.

MS. LENORE RUBINOAnd all this affects our property values and our quality of life. We would hope that Georgetown would have, after the many conversations that we've had, would have considered putting on-campus housing or satellite campus housing into their plan, and we haven't seen that. In fact, they've outright rejected it.

NNAMDIAllow me to have Todd Olson respond because Georgetown has concluded apparently that it cannot build any new dorms on campus in the coming decade. Why not?

ABUDSure. We've looked carefully, Kojo, at a number of sites on campus. In fact, we proposed one site at the east edge of our campus that raised significant concerns among a set of neighbors, and so we pulled that proposal off the table. We had proposed to build some new housing there. We believe in the center of our campus land is very tight, available sites are very small, and just we've not found appropriate sites for additional housing. Add to that the fact that we house a large majority of our students on the campus now. We believe we're at an appropriate point there. We provide over 5,000 beds for undergraduates on campus.

ABUDWe've also worked hard to work with our local neighborhoods and to -- we have an off-campus student life program that reaches out in a number of ways, but to educate our students to engage neighbors, to patrol neighborhoods during key hours on weekend nights, and to positively work with these issues in a variety of ways. So we do take the concerns seriously. I'd also emphasize again, we are not planning any growth in undergraduates or our medical students.

NNAMDIGot to take a short break. When we come back, we will continue this conversation. It's a kind of town and gown conversation to D.C. universities and their plans for the next decade. Again, you can call us at 800-433-8850, or send us a tweet @kojoshow. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.

NNAMDIWelcome back to our conversation. We have two officials, one from Georgetown University, the other from American University, about their plans for the next decade. Jorge Abud is assistant vice president for Facilities Development and Real Estate at American University. And Todd Olson is vice president for student affairs and dean of students at Georgetown University.

NNAMDIWe're taking your calls at 800-433-8850. Jorge Abud, community residents have complained about the possibility of two-story dorms being replaced with six-story dorms. They're worried both the size of the buildings and the number of students who would move in. How has American University addressed those concerns?

ABUDWell, the plan to replace two-story residence halls with higher buildings was really part of a previous concept that isn't on the current plan. Most of the plans for residence halls that we do have currently are for five and six-story residence halls. Essentially, we do need to house a number of students together, and one of the best ways to do that is to build relatively large buildings. There's a tradeoff in -- when you're doing land planning in height of buildings versus how much land you take up. And obviously, if we built all two, three-story buildings, we'd be doing away with a lot more green space. So it is part of our sensitivity to sustainability that we look at that delicate balance between the height of a building, which obviously the higher it is, the more visible it can be, and how much land we take up in the process.

NNAMDIHere is Carter, who is at American University in Washington. Carter, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

CARTERI'm honored to be on your show. Currently, I'm actually the vice president of Greek Life on my university. And I just wanted to say that on our campus, there's a lot of -- there's a lack of support from any of the neighborhood. They don't want us in their neighborhoods. They don't want us on the Nebraska Avenue parking lot. And they fail to realize a lot of the safer things the campus community does for the community, such as community service and everything like that. So what I would really like to see is American University make more of an effort to emphasize the positive impacts that our campus community has.

CARTERAnd I'd also like to say that when we're at our dorms -- most of the students live on campus, and most of the students who live on campus are freshmen and sophomores who don't bring cars. That's the saying that the traffic issue isn't as large as it might seem.

NNAMDIOkay. Here is Jorge Abud. Tell the residents about the good things that the students do, says Carter.

ABUD(laugh) Well, we try and do that. Obviously, our students and our faculty and staff participate in a great deal of community service work throughout the city. Our freshmen service experience at the beginning of every school year, where three-quarters of our freshmen class participate in community projects throughout the city, is kind of a highlight. But it's something that kinds of starts our students off in a community service mindset. Many of them bring that mindset to the university, and that's one of the things that attracts them to American.

ABUDAnd once they start with that freshmen service experience, they tend to continue it not only throughout that freshmen year, but throughout their college career. There are great many programs that our School of Education has in partnership with the District of Columbia public schools and on and on. So I think those are lots of things that we do try and promote, and we can always do a better job of that.

NNAMDICarter, thank you for your call. On to Chris in Washington, D.C. Chris, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

CHRISHi. I'm a current student in the (word?) of the MBA program at Georgetown University McDonough School of Business. And so if the growth is gonna be in -- at the graduate level -- I just wanna talk about my program for a second. This amazing professor, Paul, made a -- put together where we come and do a residency on site. They put us up in the hotel there on campus for two weeks, and then we do other residencies around the world. So we're not commuting. We're not adding to the traffic. We're not full-time residents there, but we have access to all the facilities. And if that's the future of the delivery format of a lot of graduate programs, I just -- I think it's a wonderful thing.

NNAMDIOkay. Care to comment on that, Todd Olson?

OLSONI'd be happy to. Chris, thanks for calling. I just want to build on a point Chris made that our graduate education is -- takes many different forms. It engages a whole lot of different kinds of students. The global executive MBA program that Chris mentions is -- has a very innovative format. It occasionally is intensively on our campus, but most of it doesn't happen there, and they're sort of short-term visits. So graduate education does take a lot of different forms. We want to plan to provide high-quality graduate education in a number of ways as we move forward. This is just one example.

NNAMDIAn ongoing concern for residents who live near both schools is the behavior of students when they're off campus, either living in rental properties and adjoining neighborhoods or patronizing local businesses. Both of your plans include revisions to your student code of conduct to address these concerns. What are the new measures, starting with you, Todd Olson?

OLSONOkay. Sure. This is an issue that we take seriously and have worked on creatively over the past decade, really. But some of our newest steps include, number one, the establishment of two basically off-campus, full-time staff positions. Our community advisors who live in the neighborhoods help build a sense of community with students, respond to neighbor issues, enforce policies. We think that's really innovative and meaningful. A partnership with the Metropolitan Police Department to have officers added to patrol streets around campus during key times.

OLSONOur off-campus SNAP patrol vehicles that proactively go around and help to stem problems just as they're beginning. We've also toughened up some of our policies with students to see that we can address the repeat violators that are a particular concern. Those students who continue to be disruptive is a very small number, but we're working to address those issues. So that's some of what we've been up to in that area.

NNAMDIJorge Abud at American University?

ABUDAt AU, the environment is different in that most of our students who live off-campus aren't graduates -- live in apartment buildings. About 80 percent of the students, the undergraduate students who live nearby are in apartment buildings. And so the issue of the number of students in group housing and potential behavior problems is different for us. We have about 13 group houses in the surrounding neighborhood. Nevertheless, there are periodic times when inappropriate behavior happens, and we address it.

ABUDWe have, this year, instituted a policy whereby our on-campus student code of conduct is now applicable to the students' off-campus behavior. And that's a step, an additional step we've taken to help give our neighbors reassurance that we are very interested in making sure that our students fit in well to the surrounding community and that inappropriate behavior will not be tolerated.

NNAMDIBefore I get back to the phones, both schools met extensively with residents in the surrounding communities during development of these new campus plans and made significant adjustments to accommodate their concerns. But are there areas where either of your schools just could not reach an agreement that work for both the university and for the surrounding neighbors? First, you, Jorge Abud, and then Todd Olson.

ABUDI think our proposal to put housing on the east campus, the Nebraska Avenue parking lot, is one area where we have not reached agreement. The university feels it's appropriate to put housing there, and we think that the 770 students that we plan to house there will fit well. That's a large site. It's an 80-acre site. And we've done many things to design the buildings so that they face away from the community. We've mitigated the heights. We plan to have extensive landscaping between university facilities and the surrounding residences. But fundamentally, the community who lives adjacent to that site feels it's not an appropriate site for student housing, and that we just have a fundamental disagreement about that issue.

NNAMDITodd Olson, areas where you couldn't reach an agreement with members of the community?

OLSONSure. I think in our case it relates to housing as well and the strong interest that many of our neighbors expressed, for us to build more undergraduate housing in a campus. And our thoughtful consideration of that, but ultimate decision that that was not going to be part of our plan.

NNAMDISpeaking of which, here's Lenore Rubino, the president of the Burleith Students Association again. Lenore, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

RUBINOYes. Thank you again for having me. We have found that the university, GU's off-campus recommendations for working with the problems in our neighborhood have been really lacking and don't address the problem. The problem is beyond what we call the Band-Aid fixes. When you have an almost 48 percent rental rate in a neighborhood of 500 homes, 500 some odd homes, and alcohol is a huge, huge problem that really -- and it's a problem in many universities that no program -- universities cannot address that issue, especially when they're living amongst residential neighbors. I have many residents that are moving, selling their homes, because they can't or wouldn't (unintelligible) .

NNAMDIAnd you think that the student -- the proposed student code of conduct is a Band-Aid? What would you suggest?

RUBINOI think that students need to, especially on the undergraduate level, need to be brought back on campus and live on campus where they can have a full college experience. We find many instances where the students are in peril, where we find them drunk, passed out on the streets. There are huge parties that even the students can't control. There's 50, 60 people. These are small row houses. Next door, you have an -- you have seniors. You have babies. You have...

NNAMDIAnd funding off-duty Metropolitan Police Department officers, more of them to patrol surrounding neighborhoods, you also feel is a Band-Aid?

RUBINOThe police department is -- we feel that city services, including DPW, DDOT and MPD are being -- the use of them are being exacerbated because of the overwhelming number of students in our neighborhood. If the university would house them on campus or in satellite campuses, then the affect on city services (unintelligible) ...

NNAMDILenore, we're running out of time. But in the final analysis, it is my understanding that you feel that the only solution as to -- for Georgetown to have additional housing on campus so that those students are not living in your neighborhood.

RUBINOThey need to address the problem. I don't think...

NNAMDIAllow me to have Todd Olson respond to that.

OLSONSo I wanna note a few things. And, Lenore, thanks for the call. I think that we take these issues seriously. I think we've worked in creative and thoughtful ways on this. And we do care very much about the issues. I believe that the steps we have in place are aimed directly at addressing some of those issues that happen with the small minority of our students as effectively as we can. We also know -- and I wanna add, the large majority of our students are very positive neighbors and contribute both to the city of Washington and to local neighborhoods through cleanups and other work they do. With that said, we do care about these issues. I think we worked creatively and extensively to address them.

NNAMDIWhat's the best process for citizens like Lenore and the Burleith Citizens Association to weigh in on this issue or on any other?

OLSONSure. We have a number of venues in place. We have regular meetings to engage community leaders. Something called the Alliance for Local Living has been in place for several years. We've also met extensively with local community leaders as we've prepared for this process. And we've worked to listen to them, to take their concerns seriously, to express some of our interests and our needs and our goals as well. So I think we've had a process I know has not a led to everyone agreeing in all the points, but a process where all those issues have been taken seriously.

NNAMDIGeorgetown's public hearing before the zoning commission, it's my understanding, is scheduled for April 14.

OLSONThat's correct.

NNAMDIPeople can also participate in that if you choose to. We got an e-mail from Ron, Jorge Abud, who, I think, has some advice for you. Ron writes, "It would be nice if AU would demonstrate more interests in contributing to the community as well as to its students. In many cities around the country, university expansion has helped breathe new energy into adjacent underdeveloped neighborhoods. The comings and goings of students bring life to the sidewalks, business to local retailers, riders to Metro and security to the street.

NNAMDII hope the relocation of the AU Law School will contribute to revitalizing the sleepy Tenley Circle area. One way to do that would be for AU to redevelop the lawn in front of Capitol Hall into an attractive public open space with more landscaping, lots of sitting options, fountains, where students would hang out, something similar to the little entrance plaza at the current law school in Spring Valley." Jorge Abud?

ABUDThanks, Ron. We are looking at the possibility of enlivening that part of Tenley Circle and that front lawn area. One of the difficulties is that that building on the front really won't have an entry -- won't provide an entry to the law school. It's an older building. It has limited door sizes. And most of the activity related to the law school really need to take place behind the existing building. Nevertheless, we do plan to look at ways that we can enliven that area. Certainly, we feel that providing a population of about 2,000 law school students as it's projected for the year 2020 will just in and of itself provide some of that activity that you talk about and, you know, we plan to work on ways to draw that population together with Tenleytown as a whole.

NNAMDICollege students today apparently want to live in apartment-style housing rather than dormitory-style buildings with one shared room and the bathroom down the hall. How is -- how important is on-campus housing in attracting students?

ABUDIt's very important. It is one of the determinates that parents make in some respects more so than students as to how they like a particular school versus another. And it's important for us because 85 percent of our existing housing is in that traditional shared dorm room with common facilities down the hall. And part of what this plan seeks to do is improve that quality, improve our competitiveness by all the new housing that we're building will be in suite styles or more apartment-style.

NNAMDIJorge Abud. Care to respond to that, Todd Olson? The desires of students are changing.

OLSONSure. We know that students are looking for amenities as well as looking for sense of community on campus. We have built a progression at Georgetown where students in their first year and sophomore year often do live in more traditional residence halls, you know, room with a bath down the hall. We have a pretty large number of apartments and some townhouses that are part of our university housing stock where upper class students live as well. But that point is very well taken. As students go through their careers to their junior and senior year, they want more independence. They want a bit more space, and that's a progression that we respect.

NNAMDIGot to take another break. We have a number of callers on the line. Stay there. We'll try to get to your calls as quickly as possible. But if the lines are busy and you'd like to join this town and gown conversation, go to our website, kojoshow.org. Join the conversation there. Send us a tweet, @kojoshow, or e-mail us to kojo@wamu.org. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.

NNAMDIWelcome back to our conversations with -- our conversation with officials of Georgetown University and American University about their 10-year plans. Jorge Abud is assistant vice president for Facilities Development and Real Estate at American University, and Todd Olson is vice president for Student Affairs and dean of students at Georgetown University. We go directly to the phones starting with Tony in Washington, D.C. Tony, your turn.

TONYYes. Good morning, Kojo. Thank you for my call. I live in a gated community here, Westover Place. And we have two gates, one coming out of New Mexico and the other one Massachusetts. The way the plan of AU expansion will impact us tremendously because they're gonna build just on the back, in the parking lot, on the back of our gated community five, six-story high dorms, I think, with 800 students, and this will have a tremendous increase on human traffic and vehicular traffic with a great potential for accidents, and not to tell you the noise, the ecological negative print that it's going to have.

TONYNow, we voiced our concern several times through the ANC, including our Mary Cheh, the representative of Ward 3. In other words, we have a great support, as I tell you, from the ANC and different officers. But also, on February, Westover put an alternative framework for this expansion that is a plan that allows for more student dorms on the interior of the campus and the placement of some administration buildings, classrooms, et cetera, which we may not be opposed to that on the Nebraska lot. So this is the flexibility of this plan that was presented to the D.C. Office of Planning and the Advisory Neighborhood, Mary Cheh and several other officials.

TONYHowever, AU is still insistent that they will fight to the Zoning Commission their plan as they develop, and they don't want to hear our concerns. And let me finish, Kojo, telling you my personal impression…

NNAMDIWell, you do known that the -- that AU's first public hearing before the Zoning Commission will be in June or July of this year, and that city Councilmember Mary Cheh in Ward 3 has indicated that she will be testifying in that hearing. But finish up, Tony, so that Jorge Abud can respond to you.

TONYOkay.

NNAMDIJorge Abud.

ABUDYeah. I disagree with the notion that the university hasn't changed anything as a result of community input. We've changed lots of things. As I said before, we do have a fundamental disagreement about whether or not it's appropriate to have student housing on the east campus and that we don't seem to be able to find a way to get beyond that. An alternative plan was proposed by a group in the community, and we've looked at that. There are a couple of sites on that plan which we think are appropriate for student housing, but the others have significant difficulties.

ABUDAs an example, one of them -- sites, a new housing building on top of our existing amphitheater, which is important to us not only for mounting current events, but it dates back to the university's very earliest days. That's when that amphitheater was established. So we don't think it's an appropriate location to -- for a new building. But fundamentally, we do believe that the east campus is appropriate for the scale of housing that we've proposed. It is a lower scale in terms of the numbers of students than we proposed initially.

ABUDInitially, we proposed a thousand students at that site. And in response to community concerns, not only downsized it, but also changed the orientations of buildings -- made some of the buildings lower and added features, which we intend to buffer the community from views and potential noise from the site.

NNAMDITony, thank you very much for your call. Georgetown and American University both own commercial land near their campuses and are landlords to some local businesses. Todd Olson, what's Georgetown's plan for the parcel of land people refer to as the 1789 block at the corner of 36th and Prospect, where the restaurant 1789 is located?

OLSONIs located. Sure. Kojo, as I mentioned earlier, we had proposed some additional housing on that site as we believe that would be a very appropriate use of that area at the east edge of our campus. Because of significant neighborhood opposition, we've pulled back on that so don't have another identified use for that block. Although, we certainly care about and are supportive of the businesses that currently operate there and any plan would respect those businesses and that contribution to the neighborhood that's there now.

NNAMDIIn the case of American University, Jorge Abud, is AU planning any changes to the commercial property it owns along Wisconsin Avenue near its Tenley campus?

ABUDNo, we're not. We own commercial property to meet the university's space needs. Generally, administrative offices are located in facilities off campus. And when we don't have a need for all of the space in a particular building, we'll lease it out to other entities. And typically, first-floor retail space is leased out to local businesses, and we plan to continue to do that in the future.

NNAMDIWe got an e-mail from Sarah, who says, "Can these two representatives say what they may have learned for what some people would feel is the worst case for expansion and neighborhood relations, which is, of course, George Washington University and Foggy Bottom?" We have had several conversations about that town and gown issue over the years. What have you learned from that, Todd Olson?

OLSONI think what I'd say is that, first of all, George Washington has, I think, worked hard to manage its impact in the city. I know about some of those issues. I know that when it comes to working with off-campus student life, one of the things I've learned from George Washington is that they were able, actually, to communicate very effectively to their stakeholders what they were doing. They developed a really positive website, have done a lot of other good work in that area. That's one bit of learning that we've done from GW's experience.

NNAMDIWhat have you learned, if anything, Jorge Abud?

ABUDWell, GW and AU are in very different environments. And so while there's certainly greater commercial density around GW, which is very different than American's main campus, I think some of the issues at GW do transfer a little bit more to our Tenley Campus. And so our link to the Metro and our plan to put a significant school near the Metro and make use of that Metro site -- similar to how GW makes use of their Foggy Bottom site -- is important.

NNAMDIGot this e-mail from Candice, who says, "I live in Burleith. I'd like to hear how your guests respond to the fact that there have been over 1,000 911 calls in the past year from our community in West Georgetown. Neighbors have sold their houses because of the impossibility of living in close proximity to students. Extended conversation with the university does no good. Georgetown repeats the same thing again and again, but does not address our concerns. I am so angry. I am shaking." I cannot validate, Todd Olson, that there have been over 1,000 911 calls in the past year from that community in West Georgetown. But, clearly, there have been a whole lot.

OLSONMm-hmm. Sure. What I wanna note is I believe that any number above a thousand would represent the 911 calls for the entire police service area that serves everything from the M Street commercial corridor to the residential neighborhoods near the campus. We've looked at some of those numbers. We believe that something in the order of one quarter of the calls relate to the residential neighborhoods around the university, and some of those probably to folks who are not -- students not directly affiliated.

OLSONBut we -- nonetheless, we do care about the issues and the impact. So I would say that that's one important fact to note about that. We have very much listened to neighbors. That's the reason for some of the, as I said, ambitious and innovative approaches we've taken to managing the impacts off campus.

NNAMDIAnd then there is Polati (sp?) in Washington, D.C. Polati, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

POLATIOh, hi. I'm just calling 'cause I am actually -- I live in Hillandale, which is across Georgetown University campus. And I'm a professor at American, as well as an alum. And I feel like there's a certain level of -- with the community discourse that neighbors should also realize that they chose to live in the university community. There's a pro to that. There's a con to that. But at some point, there has to be a sense of responsibility that, yes, the university is going to grow. They're going to expand. It is their property. And I just feel like that that's sort of missing right now with all the negative criticism from the neighbors.

NNAMDISo when you moved there as an alum at American University and a professor at Georgetown University?

POLATINo, the other way around. Well, alum at -- I'm an alum at American University and a professor at American University. But I do live right across the street from Georgetown University.

NNAMDIAnd when you moved across the street from Georgetown University, did you move there, A, because you wanted to be in close proximity to university, you liked that environment, or, B, in spite of that and -- you knew what to expect?

POLATII think it was more the pro. I knew that, you know -- I have kids, and we go to Georgetown Campus all the time. We walk on McLeod. We go to the, you know, retail shops, the bookstore and things like that. But I see it as a benefit. And also I know that there's a certain level of, you know -- on my street, we have Georgetown students who rent houses. And I know that having chosen to live across from the university that that is part of, you know, the process. You have to realize that there are pros and cons. And I feel like sometimes neighbors, in this debate, they feel like, oh, it's all negative. But they also did make that decision to live within the proximity of a campus community.

NNAMDIThank you very much for your call, Polati. Traffic and parking concerns are everywhere in the city. How is Georgetown planning to change the experience of driving to and parking on campus? And how will that impact traffic in the surrounding neighborhoods, Todd Olson?

OLSONSure. Kojo, the heart of our approach to moving people on and off the campus has to do with encouraging folks to leave their car at home, whenever it's possible, however else they can. We have a shuttle bus system, our GUTS bus system, that now carries over 2 million riders a year. Our traffic study tells us that takes something like 7,700 potential cars off the road on an average weekday. And we're committed to continuing that kind of performance with our shuttle bus system. We're looking to build a loop road on our campus that would more effectively serve our needs and allow us to keep buses off of neighborhood streets, in most cases. And so that's really the core of our approach. We believe it not only makes sense for traffic movement, but also for sustainability.

NNAMDIHere is Tom in Washington, D.C. Tom, your turn. Go ahead, please.

TOMHi, Kojo. I'd like to ask one question. I remember several years ago, the past five to seven years, AU purchased or leased a high rise apartment in Westbard as a dormitory facility. I understand that that failed because it was too far from the campus, which is important to undergraduates to acculturate to the university. And secondly, there were two students to a one-bedroom apartment. Now what happened to that aspect going out further in the community based on this experience?

NNAMDIMy college experience were four students in a one-bedroom apartment. But go ahead, (laugh) please, Jorge Abud.

ABUDYes, the Park Bethesda apartment is one that we have been leasing for about the last eight years. And the original intent was for it to house undergraduates, as well as graduate students. But we found, after a couple of years of trying to place students there, that the distance was an issue. The building was a building that was developed initially as an open market rental, and therefore the rooms really didn't fit us well. It had very nice kitchens, very nice living rooms, but rather smallish bedrooms.

ABUDAnd when you have two people sharing those, it just wasn't working out. And so we did make a transition after the first two years to just leasing it on the open market. A few American University students still live there, but very few. And so it's not playing a role in our housing strategy for the future. And I think it is important -- one of the important lessons from that is proximity to university or proximity to Metro is important for our housing for students.

NNAMDITom, thank you very much for your call. We're running out of time very quickly. But both campuses have shuttle bus service with ridership that's increasing. Will shuttle service be expanding, Todd Olson?

OLSONWe are looking to maintain our current structure of shuttle service at this time. But we work to meet the needs that we have. And we -- as I said, we wanna encourage ridership on our system. We believe it's a sustainable way to move people around. But at this point, what we're planning to do is to reroute some of our bus routes so they can make better use of our canal road entrance, and we'll do that in part through building this loop road on our campus.

NNAMDIExpansion of shuttle service, Jorge Abud?

ABUDLike Georgetown, our shuttle service now carries almost 2 million people. And we plan to continue to offer more service as time goes on to meet the demand. Our ridership has almost doubled in the past 10 years, and we expect it to increase significantly over the next 10.

NNAMDIYou, too, can check out the campus plans for yourselves by going to the links at our website, kojoshow.org. Our American University link is its draft plan. Its final plan was submitted Friday and will be available soon on the American University website and on ours. Jorge Abud is assistant vice president for Facilities Development and Real Estate at American University. Thank you for joining us.

ABUDThank you. It was interesting.

NNAMDIAnd Todd Olson is vice president for Student Affairs and dean of students at Georgetown University. Thank you for joining us, Todd.

OLSONGood to be here, Kojo.

NNAMDIAnd thank you all for listening. Zoning commission hearings to come in April and June. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.