MR. KOJO NNAMDIWhen I was 17, I spent a lot of time going to the movies, trying to figure out how to meet girls since I was in an all-boys high school and generally making a nuisance of myself. At 17, Ilyich Rivas is on a somewhat different path. He's a conducting fellow with the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra and the Peabody Institute at Johns Hopkins. That means he gets to be the guy with the baton at the front of the orchestra making sure the performance goes off without a hitch. It's a job that usually goes to older people, but Ilyich Rivas has been conducting starting with music on the home stereo since he was 6 years old. His next series of performances with the BSO are coming up next week. And Ilyich Rivas joins us in the studio to talk about the art of conducting and his unusual career. Ilyich Rivas is Bruno Walter Baltimore Symphony Orchestra-Peabody conducting fellow. Ilyich, thank you very much for joining us.

MR. ILYICH RIVASThank you. I'm very happy to be here.

NNAMDIAlso with us is Alejandro Rivas. He is Ilyich's father and he is also a conductor. Alejandro, thank you for joining us.

MR. ALEJANDRO RIVASThank you for having me.

NNAMDIIlyich, you come, as is clear, from a very musical family, so I'm guessing it's hard to pinpoint that one moment where you really fell in love with classical music. But share some of your early musical memories with us.

RIVASYeah, exactly. You're right that I couldn't say when I decided to be a musician or to love music because it's always been at home. And for me, I always tell people that I thought everyone was a conductor when I was a little boy.

RIVASI just though it's what you had to do. And especially, you know, my father is a conductor. And I went to his rehearsals. So it was something extremely natural for me to fall into the world of music. But I was fascinated particularly in conducting. So, yeah.

NNAMDIWhen I was growing in the Guyana, which is of course next door to Venezuela...

RIVASGuyana, yeah.

NNAMDI...we had a conductor by the name of Major Henwood. He was the conductor of our military band. And my brother and I used to mimic Major Henwood in all of the things he would do. But obviously, since we didn't have the kind of association with Major Henwood that you had with your father, we never actually knew what we were doing. What drew you to conducting this particular role as opposed to mastering a single instrument?

RIVASIt's something that I can't really explain. It's very -- what I can say was that I was always intrigued by moving my arms to express a phrase and always intrigued to think orchestrally when it was about music to think about the full score or the full orchestra.

NNAMDIYou do play the piano?

RIVASYes, yes, I do.

NNAMDIAlejandro, you're a conductor as well. When did you look at your son and say this isn’t just cute, he actually has a talent for this?

RIVASWell, he was, as he mentioned, following me to rehearsals, and, of course, after rehearsals or a concert, he will be trying to show me that he could recall some of the biggest moments of the performance, and he could do it with his arms and his body, too, and -- but I think I remember at a special occasion when I came back from a trip to Venezuela, and he said to me I have some something prepared that I want to show you.

RIVASSo it was some movement of the Symphony Number 40 by Mozart. And I say, well, yes, let's see. Let's take a look. And I remember he put a recoding, and he started to conduct from the very beginning. And I was just so impressed for everything he did. He was like queuing when he heard the coming up of instruments, and he was also expressing emotionally, his face, his body, with the phrases of the music.

RIVASAnd since he was insisting on the idea of being a conductor already at that moment when he was probably six for quite a long time, I decided I say, well, let's start by, you know, taking a look to these scores that I have, and I'm gonna give you some homework every week for you to have ready for next week, and I will be taking a look. And we start with the basics, of course, of the conductor technique. And from there, you know, everything just came along really, really easy. He was improving very, very fast pace, and we found this moment where he could make a debut when he was pretty much about I think nine years old.

NNAMDIOf course, you helped him with conducting, but you made quite a few sacrifices. You moved to the U.S. when Ilyich was very young, but in recent years, it's my understanding that you've moved around a lot for Ilyich's career. Talk about that, the sacrifices you've made.

RIVASYes, I think -- well, I don't see it as a real sacrifice. I think, of course, you know, it takes -- you have to sometimes in your life make decisions. But if you are sure that they are worth it, they are for something that you really love or something that you think is going to be really important, you don't see it like a real sacrifice. You see it as...

NNAMDIHey, you left a job teaching in Denver in a very difficult economy. That, for me, is a sacrifice.

RIVASI think I was thinking about the importance more than any of the things...

NNAMDISure.

RIVAS...of the events that were coming up for my son about his engagements with these important orchestras. And I say, well, I need to be with him where he's going right now and making sure that he's gonna be successful in all of his performances. And that's what I take -- I took this big step, and I say, well, I think there's gonna be a time when I'm gonna come back right back on my track. But the important, you know, at this moment, for this unusual, as you say, it's an unusual case of somebody that young conducting these incredible level -- high level ensembles. He needs, of course, a lot of my support, and I'm just here to give that to him.

NNAMDIThat would not have stopped my mother from saying, "Ilyich, I hope you understand the sacrifice that your dad is making for you, and you're grateful for it." But, Ilyich, tells us about this fellowship that you're doing with the BSO and the Peabody Institute. How does one learn to be a conductor? I think the whole process seems a bit mysterious to most people.

RIVASOf course, it's a very, very subjective field within music because, well, everything could be subjective but conducting is very, very personal and individual in the sense that there's no right way to be a conductor or exact technique. It is just you have to be a well-informed person and have a certain ability to communicate physically as well. But -- well, as my father mentioned, we've been working for now more than half of my life together, and he's been teaching me.

RIVASBut what's most important is that if already there's the passion for standing in front of an orchestra, and what my father always told me and has told me is that and tried to establish in our work is that it's what you know and at the level that you know the pieces you're doing and not just the pieces but how well you know the composer that really is crucial to be a conductor because people sometimes will think that conducting is just standing in front of an orchestra and moving your arms. But I think the biggest goal really is to be able to influence an orchestra in rehearsal and convince them of your own interpretation of the piece. And that is what learning to be a conductor -- that's what the goal is, to be able to -- every piece you do be completely convinced of what your interpretation is, and that requires a lot of hours of study and experience as well. Yeah.

NNAMDI800-433-8850 is the number to call if you'd like to join this conversation. If you have questions about the role of a conductor in an orchestra, you can call us, 800-433-8850. We're talking with Ilyich Rivas -- he is the Bruno Walter Baltimore Symphony Orchestra-Peabody Conducting fellow -- and his father, Alejandro Rivas, who's also a conductor. You can also go to our website, kojoshow.org, and join the conversation there. I'd be interested to hear how each of you talk about body language and how conductors use movement to communicate with an orchestra. Some conductors seem to move a lot, others not much at all. How important is this movement to get a point across during a performance? First you, Alejandro.

RIVASI think it's, of course, important to have a special talent in order to be a conductor, like for any other field. I mean -- what I mean with that is just to have some kind of ability to express with your body, with your hands, with your face, what the music is meant to be. And if you have that special talent, well, that's a plus for you. But of course there are other things that you learn. You learn certain techniques on how to use your arms, for instance, and what is the effect that certain movement has on the music, and, you know, where to face when you are in the podium, how to face, what people -- what part of the orchestra you need to face in a certain moment when you're conducting a piece.

RIVASThere are many things you can learn. But of course there is always this important thing, too, that comes with each person, which is their personal talent to be a conductor. And then, well, it's used. After you have learned a basic technique and you have had some experience on the podium, conducting becomes something very personal. It's something that you develop with your experience in conducting different ensembles, conducting different type of repertoire. And, you know, after so many years, you become yourself as a conductor.

NNAMDIHow do you feel about the issue of movement, Ilyich?

RIVASYes. Well, I think that it's a very special thing to stand in front of a group of people and do one piece and for you to be the center, not to be egotistical here. (laugh) But you are, essentially, both visually and psychologically, in charge of leading a piece. And, like, if you mention, for example, group psychology, when the musicians are all playing together in the orchestra, if there's a prominent figure leading on the podium, it seems to influence very well. It's a very magical effect that occurs in music.

RIVASSo movement is crucial, and -- but I think it's extremely personal as well. And just like you can't explain what it is that is in Pavarotti's voice. And I'm not making any comparisons. He's got -- I'm not talking about myself. I'm saying about other great conductors. What it is in his voice that makes it so genuine, so special, you can't explain what certain conductors have that can bond together an entire group of musicians.

NNAMDIJust like I can't explain why it is that Venezuelans seem to be so good at classical music and symphony and conducting. What is it about the tradition in Venezuela that seems to make this happen...

RIVASMm-hmm.

NNAMDI...Alejandro?

RIVASWell, there is certainly a long tradition of great music that, you know, comes and developed, especially in the 20th century. And of course right now, it's all more well known through the phenomenon of the system, El Sistema, which is...

NNAMDIYup.

RIVAS...is a very organized, very well organized organization with -- it has put instruments in a lot of young people there, everyone in the country. And after 30 years of hard work, it has been giving incredible results. I was -- when I was young, I was part of one of their orchestras, and I remember rehearsing and working with them. It was something really incredible. I get there every day in the afternoon, probably at 2:00 p.m. for sectionals only, last four hours. And after that comes the full rehearsal with all -- everybody else for three or four more hours. And I'm talking about every day rehearsal. So, of course, after a work like that, people are pretty much, like, dedicated to this. Some people -- if you are, like, you know, studying in the college and you wanna do both things at the same time, you need to think it twice. And sometimes you make a decision because you spend so much time rehearsing and working so hard to make an orchestra to sound great that you don't have time for anything else.

NNAMDII guess the hard work is genetic, too, because you seem to have passed it on to Ilyich. Ilyich, you're getting ready to conduct Shostakovich's Symphony Number One at the Meyerhoff Hall and at Strathmore next weekend. Let's listen to a little bit of Shostakovich.

NNAMDIIlyich, tell us a little bit about how you're preparing for this performance and how you -- or for the series of performances, and how you prepare for a performance in general.

RIVASI think that every performance or series of performances that you -- that I do, I always try to -- and of course, that's also because I'm not as full as someone that's already completely established conducting all over the place all the time. But for -- at this point, I try to make every one a very special event, and that -- where I try to really tie it all together like if it were an opera or anything else. It really is that important for me. And in this case, it seems to be that we try to stick with the theme of young composers, all of them great composers but in their late teens and early 20s. And so I find, of course, a lot of identification with all of the pieces I'm doing. And it's an honor for me to be able to -- at the same age as, for example, Shostakovich, when he composed his piece, to be able to...

NNAMDIHe was 19 or so.

RIVASYeah. Yes. He was 19 when he finished the symphony.

NNAMDIDo you try to get into his head, so to speak, to try to figure out his intent while he was composing this music and try to reproduce that as well as possible?

RIVASI think that's exactly true. I think it's the musical outcome that is one's goal. That it sounds as exactly as it needs to sound. And whether you're right or not about what he meant, which is true, I tried to find that as well, (laugh) is really secondary, but it's -- as long as you get the sound that you know is correct for the piece, you know?

NNAMDIWe got an e-mail from Justin who asks, "Has your success taken away from your relationships or social life with people of your own age?" How do you tell people your age about what you're doing? What kind of response do you usually get?

RIVASWell, it's very curious because I -- first of all, I really -- I always grew up and spent a lot of time with older people. So I was used to that as well and it didn't hit me so hard to have to leave my peers. But at the same time, I'm very good at, I think, at molding back into my own age if I'm with people of my age. I don't have a problem with that. I can enjoy that very much as well. So I -- it is weird, though, because most people my age right now are probably (laugh) in a classroom like I should be too.

NNAMDIOkay.

RIVASAnd I've just basically sacrificed everything for music. But -- and the reaction is awkward because one thing is to say that you're a pianist or that you're a violinist or cellist or something, but a conductor conducting adults is just like, who do you think you are? (laugh) But yeah...

NNAMDIWell, there's all this -- Alejandro, there's all this general concern about kids whose careers take off at a very young age that they are going to either burnout early or look back on their childhood with regret. How happy would you say Ilyich has been over the course of these last several years?

RIVASWell, I think I try to monitor, to be, you know, very attentive to get Ilyich feelings in the moments where I think he needs to go out and share with his friends or people of his age, and try to make a balance with that. Is, anything very natural for him, anyway, when he really needs something like that to happen. And that's why we're trying to take this moment of his career also in a very slow pace in a way that we don't want him to be in a situation that he's gonna be preparing every week a huge program and, you know, forgetting about the world around him. Not at all. And we always have, you know, schedules during the year or times where he can really forget for a week or two about music. You know, this difficult...

NNAMDIHey, there's baseball to be played.

RIVASYeah.

NNAMDIGirls to be chased. Here's... (laugh)

RIVASRight. Difficult...

RIVAS(laugh) Right.

NNAMDIHere's Nana (sp?) in Ellicott City, Md. Nana...

RIVASFor...

NNAMDIGo ahead, go ahead, please. Yes.

RIVASYeah, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. For instance, we go to -- frequently to Venezuela. And when we are there -- well, he has a lot of friends there and a lot of family and people of his age, so he really enjoy these moment there too. So we try just to keep a balance.

NNAMDIHe gets to hang out in Venezuela. Here's Nana in Ellicott City. Nana, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

NANAYes. I just wanted to congratulate Ilyich. It's very timely because this morning I've been substitute teaching with an orchestra in Howard County, Md. And I was just announcing to them this morning that there is this young conductor who's gonna be conducting the Baltimore Symphony. And as I was reading to them a little bit of his biography and reading to them and just trying to explain exactly how momentous this is, it really made an impression on them. They could not, you know, believe that this young guy is gonna be conducting, someone their own age. And I really encourage them to go to the concert. And I just have to say myself that I'm just incredibly impressed that someone of his age could, you know, not only learn the scores, learn the music, but also rehearse adults and not be intimidated by these fantastic musicians, the Baltimore Symphony, but be able to stand up there and lead the rehearsals all week. And then get up there at the concert and conduct the whole thing too. And just, you know, the depths of knowledge you must have in order to do all this is just immense. I'm very impressed. (unintelligible)

NNAMDINana, you brought us to the end of our broadcast. But thank you very much for calling. It gives me the opportunity to tell you that Ilyich Rivas will conduct the Baltimore Symphony Orchestra in performances of Beethoven and Shostakovich on Thursday, Oct. 14, and Friday, Oct. 15, at 8 p.m. at the Meyerhoff Hall in Baltimore and on Saturday, Oct. 16, at 8 p.m. at Strathmore. Ilyich, thank you very much for joining us. Good luck to you.

RIVASThank you very much. It's a pleasure.

NNAMDIIlyich Rivas is Bruno Walter Baltimore Symphony Orchestra-Peabody Conducting Fellow. Alejandro Rivas is his father. Thank you very much for joining us. Good luck to you too.

RIVASOur pleasure. Thank you.

NNAMDIThank you all for listening. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.