KOJO NNAMDIWelcome back. What if I told you someone could sell you a cure for arthritis, depression, sleeplessness, Parkinson's Disease, chronic pain, anxiety, cancer and epilepsy? Cannabidiol, better known as CBD, can't do all of those things, but that doesn't stop some from claiming otherwise. And because the Food and Drug Administration does not regulate CBD, there's no way to be sure exactly how much CBD is even in your cookie or lotion.

KOJO NNAMDIStudies indicate that CBD is helpful in treating nausea and sleep disturbances, at least, but the line between truth and fiction is blurred by advertisers. A cohort of 24 attorneys general -- including those of D.C., Maryland and Virginia -- have asked the FDA to regulate CBD. What do you think? Have you tried or used CBD in food, lotions or other forms? Why or why not? Give us a call. Joining us now by phone is Karl Racine. He is the attorney general of the District of Columbia. Karl Racine, thank you for joining us.

KARL RACINEGood afternoon, Kojo. Good to be with you.

NNAMDICan you explain for us what this open letter from you and the other attorneys general is asking the Food and Drug Administration to do?

RACINESure. As you well described, we really are entering a world where CBD and CBD-derived products are largely unregulated. In short, it's really hazy out there when it comes to CBD products. Accordingly, the state attorney generals, 24 in the District of Columbia -- actually, it's 37, in total -- wanted to make sure that as the FDA begins its testing of CBD, as it works with USDA to come up with regulations, that the perspective of states in the District of Columbia be considered.

RACINEAnd the state concern is, of course, the health and safety and wellbeing of its consumers. For that reason, we are very concerned about unsubstantiated and misleading claims concerning the benefits that you outlined for CBD.

NNAMDIIt's my understanding that the legality of CBD products essentially depends on whether a state allows medical marijuana products. Is that correct?

RACINEThat is generally correct. It is illegal to ship through interstate commerce -- that is a business going from one state to another, across state lines -- CBD products. That's illegal under the federal government regime, and so regulation has been largely left to the states. States that have legalized marijuana for recreational use, as well as those states that have legalized marijuana for medical uses are generally far more favorable in regards to the treatment of CBD.

NNAMDIWell, what rules do exist in the District of Columbia right now in terms of selling, buying or using CBD? And what are the nature of your concerns about how the industry operates here?

RACINESure. Simply stated, there really aren't any clear, published rules in the District of Columbia regarding the marketing and labeling of CBD, nor the use and selling of it. What this office, the office of Attorney General, is concerned about most are those unsubstantiated and misleading claims. For example, think you have cancer. Don't worry about the cancer. Come buy this CBD oil or drink. Those kinds of allegations will certainly be met with an investigation on our part at the Office of Attorney General, as well as, I know, other states.

NNAMDIOne area where people definitely want to see CBDs regulated is in dosing and in packaging, including how it's advertised. You already talked about what you see as probably false advertising. Any other areas of more concern for you?

RACINEI think the key for us is really getting down to a real good testing regimen, where we know that, first of all, the CBD products don't have more than the .3 of the active THC ingredient. Number two, we'd like to eventually get to a place where there is some level of substantiation in regards to what the benefits are for these CBD products. Lastly, I would urge folks -- especially in specially vulnerable community groups, for example kids, the elderly and pregnant women -- to be very cautious in regards to their use of CBD products and to advise, to the extent they can, the advice of medical professionals.

NNAMDIHas the FDA responded yet to the letters?

RACINEThey have not, Kojo, but we have been in active dialogue with them on other issues. And I expect the FDA to respond, certainly, by September.

NNAMDIShould businesses and users of CBD be worried about what this could mean for them in the long term?

RACINEWell, I think that the FDA is moving, you know, candidly at a moderate pace. And I think that's probably the right pace to go when you're talking about a product that could have benefits, as well as could be harmful. We'd like to accelerate the level of testing so that people can be ensured that, you know, the ultimate downside of an untested product is not realized by them.

NNAMDIKarl Racine is the Attorney General of the District of Columbia. General Racine, thank you for joining us.

RACINEThank you very much, Kojo.

NNAMDIJoining me in studio is Barbara Biddle. Barbara Biddle is the owner of District Hemp. Thank you so much for joining us.

BARBARA BIDDLEThank you so much for having me, Kojo.

NNAMDIAnd joining us from studios in Richmond, Virginia is Jenn Michelle Pedini, executive director of Virginia's chapter of NORML, or the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws. Jenn Michelle, thank you for joining us.

JENN PEDINIThanks so much for having me, Kojo.

NNAMDIAnd joining us by phone is Daniel Simmonds, the founder of Georgetown Hemp. Daniel, thank you for joining us.

DANIEL SIMMONDSThanks for having me, Kojo.

NNAMDIBarbara, I'd like to talk a little more about what CBD is. It is derived from marijuana, but it's not the same as marijuana. What is it exactly, and what differentiates it from cannabis?

BIDDLEI think it's very important to talk about the distinction of hemp in marijuana. You can get CBD from the marijuana plant. You can get CBD from a lot of botanicals. But the difference between hemp-derived CBD and marijuana-derived CBD is the THC content and the ability to get high or intoxicated. That's really the distinction that we need to focus on.

NNAMDISo, I just want to clarify. No CBD products have THC, the psychoactive element?

BIDDLENo hemp-derived CBD products have more than .3 percent THC.

NNAMDIWhich varieties of CBD are easiest to find, and what's the difference in terms of their effect?

BIDDLECan you repeat that one more time?

NNAMDIWhich varieties of CBD are easiest to find, and what's the difference in terms of their effect?

BIDDLEI'd say the most common products on the market right now are tinctures, topicals and gummies, and they're really easy to find. You can find them in your local grocery store. You can find them at boutique shops like mine. They're just widely available right now. They're everywhere.

NNAMDIJenn Michelle, you're with NORML, or the national organization for the reform of marijuana laws. You're advocates for legalizing marijuana and presumably related products, as well. We'll talk more about that in a moment, but tell us first about how and where CBD is legal in our region.

PEDINIWell, CBD would be legal in the context of the District's program for medical marijuana. The same would apply for Maryland's medical cannabis program, and also in Virginia. Virginia also has a hemp program that's just a little ahead of Maryland's hemp program. And our state just authorized our hemp processors to make products that contain CBD for human consumption.

NNAMDIWhat's, again, maybe the legal distinction between the hemp version of CBD and the marijuana version of CBD, if there is one? Barbara already kind of explained that.

PEDINIWell, to comport with a state's law, it may be different, but under a federal law, the cannabidiol would need to be extracted from an industrial hemp plant. And the final extraction would need to contain .3 percent or less tetrahydrocannabinol, THC. And that's what would make a product comply with the federal regulations. That still may differ based on the state that you're in, though.

NNAMDII was about to say, so is it legal across the DMV? How does this compared to marijuana laws?

PEDINIMuch like medical cannabis and adult-use cannabis laws, it still varies. There is no interstate commerce that's legal at this point for these CBD products. And, you know, that would be the same -- the same illegality would apply to cannabis products, though, and it's certainly a different context.

NNAMDILet's go to the phones. Here is Solomon in Fairfax, Virginia. Solomon, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

SOLOMONHey, how you doing, Kojo? Thanks for having me.

NNAMDIYou're welcome.

SOLOMONI just want to talk about how CBD is legal in Virginia, and how a lot of kids I know -- I'm 18. I'm able to go out and buy CBD. And all my friends do it all the time. And I was just worried about the safety risks that might have, especially because Virginia just raised the tobacco age to 21, when kids are now going out and buying CBD instead.

NNAMDIJenn Michelle, can you answer Solomon's question?

PEDINISure. So, there's a difference between widely available and legal. And these CBD products that are on the shelves in Virginia right now are not from Virginia-licensed hemp processors yet. They are products that are being imported into the state. And, as you've mentioned, as the attorney general mentioned, these products are wholly unregulated. And that interstate commerce also means their illegal. They're illegal under state law, as well, as Virginia has only legalized authorized hemp processors to produce these products for human consumption containing CBD.

PEDINIAnd to get to the point of his concern about children consuming these products -- not just children, but, frankly anyone -- they are unregulated. And so not only might they not contain the amount of CBD that they claim to, or they may contain higher amounts of THC, while these things are concerning, it should be incredibly concerning that they can also contain pesticide residue, micotoxin -- which is a poisonous after-product of mold, lead, other heavy metals. And if these products aren't being tested, then you really have no way of knowing what's in there.

NNAMDIBarbara Biddle.

BIDDLEWe've actually taken initiative at District Hemp to input an age restriction, unless you are accompanied by an adult. As a mother, I understand the concern behind, you know, taking a product that's all over the news, there are safety concerns. So, I want to alleviate those concerns by makings sure that parents know that they are not allowed in our stores without an adult present.

NNAMDIWell, we'll talk about testing very shortly with Daniel Simmonds, but before we go there, Jenn Michelle Pedini, there's already been some pushback from federal agencies about the usefulness of CBD. Scott Gottlieb, the previous director of the FDA, Food and Drug Administration, said in an interview with Statnews that, quoting here, "There's no science to demonstrate that putting it in the food supply has any medicinal value, let alone to support that it's safe." What do we know about the actual medical applications of CBD?

PEDINIWell, there's certainly a number of studies out there that are showing emerging evidence. But when we are looking at FDA-approved clinical evidence, we can only look to epidiolex, which is an FDA-approved medication derived from botanical cannabis that contains cannabidiol. It is available for prescription in the United States. So, that is what Mr. Gottlieb was referring to as being the only hard evidence that cannabidiol has demonstrated clinical efficacy for seizure disorders.

NNAMDIBut say I buy a recreational CBD product, like a trendy donut or cocktail. Those are everywhere in D.C. What effects can that have for someone who does not have a medical need?

PEDINIVery likely nothing. The placebo effect is very strong, but when we're seeing these products that contain minimal amounts of CBD, a few milligrams, those really are not therapeutic doses. Those are typically in the hundreds of milligrams. So, while it might be enjoyable, and enjoyable for the retailer who just tacked a hefty price tag on there for that CBD, it's not likely to have any sincere health benefits.

NNAMDII have a personal history of positive responses to placebos, but (laugh) you go ahead, Barbara Biddle.

BIDDLEWe actually get a large volume of consumers that come in and are disappointed that there's no recreational use associated with hemp-derived or CBD products. You're not going to feel high. You're not going to feel different if you're not suffering from some sort of discomfort. It's that simple.

NNAMDIBut, Jenn Michelle, can there be a risk of overdosing or using too much CBD?

PEDINIWhen they're -- the risks that are associated with consumption of CBD, as we best understand it right now, are generally specific to those who may have elevated liver enzymes either from a drug that they're taking or just something in their body. So, there are drug-drug interactions to be concerned about.

NNAMDIYour organization advocates for the benefit of cannabis. Do you think regulation is needed? And if so, what regulation would make sense for CBD products?

PEDINIYeah, regulation is absolutely needed, not only for products containing cannabidiol, but any product that is containing cannabis or that is intended for human consumption, for that matter. These are the standard that we live by in America, and they should certainly apply to these products, as well.

NNAMDIDaniel Simmonds, your business, Georgetown Hemp, actually tests products to certify how much CBD is in them. Why did you decide to start doing this?

SIMMONDSSo, we actually created our business in response to the issue of inaccurately labeled products. I had the advantage of being around friends and family who are in the industry working with CBD and building brands for the past four years. And I got to see the regulatory struggles that they had and the tumult in the industry as they were growing. And I saw a problem back in 2014 that I thought would only be magnified after the 2018 Farm Bill passed and more products entered the market.

SIMMONDSAnd, largely, I do agree on a regulated market, and that if there's going to be a future where science and medicine catch up, you know, for example to what Israel has been doing for the past 80 years, that there's going to need to be some adults in the room. And, in addition to that, I'm a medical cannabis patient myself. I tried for 15 years working with some of the best doctors in the country. I've tried all kinds of different medications, and was labeled treatment resistant.

SIMMONDSAnd it wasn't until the Maryland Medical Cannabis Program launched where I was able to identify exactly what was in the product that I was buying and what wasn't. You know, micotoxins and molds and pesticides were mentioned before. At that point, I was able -- it became my magic bullet and I was able to use it for targeted treatments to treat ailments and illnesses that I've suffered from more effectively than I've ever been able to. So, I believe strongly that it needs to be regulated, but, that being said, not in a way that is going to create a barrier for entry for a lot of the people who deserve to be successful in this industry.

NNAMDI(overlapping) So, in your testing, Daniel, how often do you find a product that's advertised to contain CBD, but does not, in fact, contain any?

SIMMONDSUnfortunately, too often. I carry what's called a spectrometer. And it's a device that shines light to measure atomic weight of molecules. And it helps to understand the percentages of cannabinoids that are present in these products at least once a week. We offered a test product that was purchased elsewhere, and we'll find a product that has no CBD. And at time we find products that are over the .3 percent of THC.

NNAMDIBarbara Biddle, that's more common than a lot of people probably think. How can people tell if what they've purchased is the real deal?

BIDDLEWell, at District Hemp, we have a lab book that covers all the lab tests for our products, just to ensure that what they're marketing is true. It is a concern. And then we do -- we go the extra mile and we actually do additional third-party testing to make sure that their third-party tests are correct. And we've run into issues with that. So, I like to take the guesswork out of it for the consumer and make sure that all the products that they're looking at in our stores are what they say they are.

NNAMDIHere is Tamara in Alexandria, Virginia. Tamara, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

TAMARAHi. Thanks for having me. I had a question. I am a medical cannabis oil patient in Virginia for the new program that's going to open, not yet open yet. But I do have concerns with, you know, as much as you see CBD out there, because I, you know, for the last two years, you know, finally got my medical cannabis oil card for Virginia. But then, suddenly, you know, now (unintelligible) the very thing that, you know, I was looking into two, three years ago. And now it seems so easy, but, I don't know, I guess my comment/question would be that (unintelligible) as someone who I consider, you know, educating myself. I can't imagine what it might be for, you know, someone that doesn't look into it as much, and doesn't educate themselves about it. I think the education needs to happen.

NNAMDIBig time, I guess. Jenn Michelle, how can someone know the difference between hemp CBD and others?

PEDINIYou really can't. If you're just an average consumer, you're relying on what's on the label, what's on the package, or what's on the, quote, "labbed results" that come with the product. I think that it's important that we have third-party testing. We require that under Virginia's medical cannabis program. We also require that those labs are regulated by the state. And that's something that we should pay close attention to in the regulatory process. Not only do we need to require third-party lab testing, but those labs need to be regulated, as well.

NNAMDIGo to take a short break. When we come back, if you have called, stay on the line, we'll get to your calls. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.

NNAMDIWelcome back to our conversation on CBD in the DMV. We're talking with Jenn Michelle Pedini. They are the executive director of Virginia's chapter of NORML, or the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws. Barbara Biddle is the owner of District Hemp and Daniel Simmonds is the founder of Georgetown Hemp. Here's Donna in Silver Spring, Maryland. Donna, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

DONNAHey, Kojo. So, I have a hard time falling asleep every evening. I've got some insomnia, and I've been using CBD now for about a year. And it helps my brain stop working so hard at night, so I can actually fall asleep. So, it slows things down in my brain. So, I love it.

NNAMDIIs that something you have heard a lot, Jenn Michelle?

PEDINICertainly, people use CBD products for a variety of ailments, and sleep aid is one that we frequently hear. CBD has demonstrated to be a mild anxiolytic, a mild antidepressant. But really to say adequately that this is something that is a proven sleep aid was going to require a little bit more clinical research.

NNAMDIYour experience, Barbara Biddle?

BIDDLEI mean, yes, we get a lot of consumers that come in for those types of concerns. And, you know, based on my business model, we have a 30-day refund policy, so our products have to work in order for me to stay in business. (laugh)

NNAMDISpeaking about being in business, how did you get involved in this business?

BIDDLEWell, my journey with CBD started roughly two years ago. After seeing the benefits that it had on my friends in regards to pain and experiencing it myself during postpartum depression, I knew that this was a great opportunity to take my experience and my knowledge and bring it to the DMV area.

NNAMDIWhat's unique about the market for CBD products in this DMV area?

BIDDLEWell, with all the medical marijuana on dispensaries and the widely available -- or, you know, recreational use, people that come to my store don't want to get high. They don't want to be associated with marijuana, whatsoever, you know. And nobody talks about that.

NNAMDIWho is your target demographic, your average customer?

BIDDLEIt is all over the place. There's no age. There's no color. I mean, everyone is welcome in my store, and we see all kinds of people for everything.

NNAMDIDo you get the impression that these are people who -- as you said, most of them don't seek to use marijuana and THC. What percentage of them do you think use marijuana and THC?

BIDDLEThere's a few, but they usually, you know, turn straight to marijuana instead of CBD. (laugh)

NNAMDIThey don’t want CBD.

BIDDLEYes.

NNAMDIAll right. Back to the phones. Here, now, is Nicholas in Glenburnie, Maryland. Nicholas, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

NICHOLASHey, how you doing? Thanks for having me on, Kojo. So, my name's Rick, and I'm the owner of Embrace CBD Wellness Center in Glenburnie, Maryland. So, we have a CBD store, and we're very excited about this conversation being had. And, just real quick, to let you know, when I first opened this store, I was looking at brands and different manufacturers myself, and really having to go through a whole lot of investigation to find the right company.

NICHOLASAnd then I was introduced to Daniel Simmonds from Georgetown Hemp, and Daniel, the very moment that we sat down, he brought an entire consulting side to this and really helped me navigate through which brands were going to be the best ones to carry in my store. And as a result of having companies like Daniel's around, it's made it so much easier for startups like myself to be able to have a business where people can buy CBD confidently and safely. And since I've partnered with Daniel, we've been having customers come in over and over and over again for the products. They love it. It's working well for them.

NICHOLASAnd it just makes me feel very good as a business owner to know that we have a -- we're more of a solution to this problem of ineffective, fraudulent and mislabeled products, where people can come to a retail store and be able to buy a product that they know is going to work. And it's because of companies like Daniel's that we've been able to have the success that we've had in this industry. And we're now labeled as Anne Arundel County's most trusted source for CBD. And so, it's really worked out very, very well, and we hear a tremendous amount of stories and testimonies from our customers about how well this is working. So, we're looking forward to the FDA regulations so that people can -- so that we can kind of just kind of continue to cut through the nonsense and just get right to the thing that people need, which is relief.

NNAMDIThank you very much for sharing that with us. I'm sure it makes Daniel very happy to hear you say how happy you are with working with him. So, thank you for that. On to Neal in Washington, D.C. Neal, your turn.

NEALHi, Kojo. My name is Neal (word?), and I run a company called Lidier (sounds like). We're just a startup at the moment, but we're going to be manufacturing out of Colorado, because Colorado does, in fact, have regulations based on good manufacturing practices for CBDs in food products.

NNAMDIAnd how long has Colorado had those regulations? Do you know if other states are considering such regulations?

NEALI do not know about other states, but Colorado has put out those regulations in the past year.

NNAMDIJenn Michelle Pedini, if Colorado has regulations out, it means that there's a template around that other jurisdictions can use to try to put together their own regulations, correct?

PEDINICorrect. And Virginia just adopted similar regulations. We require CGMP for our hemp processors to make CBD products for human consumption here. And they must also meet the same requirements that are medical. Cannabis providers will have to meet for micotoxin and heavy metal testing, as well as petroleum and solvents.

NNAMDINeal, thank you very much for your call. On to Gloria in Bethesda, Maryland. Gloria, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

GLORIAHello. I get medical cannabis from an approved dispensary in Maryland for chronic pain. I use them with trained personnel there. It took a while to figure out what would really help with these regulated products. It makes me wonder how people without that, out there in the rest of the world, can find what will really help.

NNAMDIBarbara Biddle.

BIDDLEWell, there is a large learning curve when it comes to finding the right product. There's so many difference variables that you have to look at. You know, how severe is your discomfort? You know, how long do you need relief? What is your anatomy? What are your anandamide levels? What are your 2AG levels? There's so much that you have to consider before picking the right product. And when you come to District Hemp, you know, we'll sit there and we'll talk to you, just so we can guide you toward what might work best.

NNAMDIAnd where does that guiding stop? When a customer comes into your store and says they have a specific issue they'd like to address, are you actually allowed to recommend a specific product?

BIDDLENo. We always recommend that they speak to a medical professional. We are not doctors. You know, this is very, very, very important to stress. But, after that, you know, once we learn a little bit about the customer and their needs, we can easily guide them to what might help. And if it doesn't, they can bring it right back.

NNAMDIHave you had cases or heard of cases where someone buys a product that turns out to have been laced with something that's not CBD?

BIDDLEI have heard of that happening at several different locations, and it is a real scare. But here at District Hemp, you know, we go above and beyond to make sure that our products are fully vetted and don't contain contaminants like that.

NNAMDIHow do you think tighter regulation would affect business for you? What would you want the hypothetical regulation to address?

BIDDLEI think it's very important that these products are safe and that they are being marketed and labeled correctly. But I also want to make sure that these regulations are being based off fact and logic, and not provocative headlines or misleading studies.

NNAMDIDaniel, what do you think? Would more regulation be a good thing or bad thing for the CBD market?

SIMMONDSI tend to agree with Barbara on this issue. There should be some standardization and regulation so that just anybody can't brew a product in their kitchen or at home. But, at the same time, there's a lot of misinformation that's being spread. We do our best to follow the facts and not the hype. You know, the headlines that pop up in your Facebook feed about liver damage, and this and that. A lot of them are click bait, and not based in fact.

SIMMONDSThere is a lot of scientific research. I hear a lot of people saying there is not enough scientific research. Google NIH cannabidiol studies, check out the World Health Organization's list of therapeutic uses for CBD, Mayo Clinic. There's a lot of peer-reviewed, highly-revered scientific publications that can be helpful for a lot of people who are looking for answers, especially because we cannot give dosage recommendations.

NNAMDI(overlapping) On to Esther in Rockville, Maryland. Esther, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

ESTHERWell, thank you very much. I'd like to touch on two completely different points. First, I'd like to say that as a user, I have used, I still continue to use creams and saves for the inflammation that I have in joints in my hands, in my wrists. And, you know, I may not feel the effect right away, but it could be an hour later when I suddenly notice, oh, my hand is not throbbing. That's really great. The same on my shoulders.

ESTHEROn to another point, I just wanted to mention the responsibility that also lies with the consumer. I tend to research lots of things that are either going to come into my home, or that I'm going to breathe in or that I'm going to ingest. So, you know, I will look at some of the places that Daniel mentioned. I do go onto NIH, see a lot of pub med articles. And I also like to research the vendor. And I did hear about Daniel, and I know a friend who had a dog who was crippled, could hardly walk, has diabetes. And it was really supremely effective.

ESTHERAnd then if you go and search further about the vendor, maybe credentials, any kind of certifications, recommendations and, you know, tend to make calls and do follow-up to see if this vendor does his or her due diligence. And I think that's important for consumers to do.

NNAMDIThank you very much. Daniel, Virginia's experiencing a boom in people growing the hemp plant on an industrial scale. Is this expected to impact the amount of CBD products we see on the market, regionally? We only have about a minute left.

SIMMONDSSure, it will. I think we're looking at a surplus when we've been working from a deficit. And I think that deficit is what created a lot of mislabeled products, or products that didn't have what they contained. I think it could affect the price of CBD products going forward, now that more states are growing hemp.

NNAMDIJenn Michelle, as I said, we only have about a minute, but now it's down to about 30 seconds. Nigel emailed: please discuss the difference between hemp oil and CBD oil.

PEDINIHemp oil is derived from the seeds, and the seeds of the hemp plant do not contain any cannabinoids. CBD is a cannabinoid. So, it's something that you might put on your salad, whereas CBD oil would be some type of oil that contains the extracted cannabidiol from a hemp or a cannabis plant.

NNAMDIAnd, quickly, Barbara Biddle, how much THC content is a CBD oil allowed to have, legally?

BIDDLENo more than .3 percent.

NNAMDINo more than .3 percent. Barbara Biddle is the owner of District Hemp. Thank you for joining us.

BIDDLEThank you so much for having me.

NNAMDIDaniel Simmonds is the founder of Georgetown Hemp. Daniel, thank you for joining us.

SIMMONDSThanks, Kojo.

NNAMDIJenn Michelle Pedini is the executive director of Virginia's chapter of NORML, the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws. Jenn Michelle, thank you for joining us.

PEDINIThank you, Kojo.

NNAMDIThis conversation about CBD was produced by Maura Currie, and our update on the Woodstock 50 anniversary event was produced by Cydney Grannan. Coming up tomorrow, Metropolitan Police Chief Peter Newsham joins us to talk about his department's plans for getting illegal guns off the street. Plus, four decades ago, public opposition rerouted major highway construction projects in the Washington region. We look back at the history of the so-called highway revolt. That all starts tomorrow at noon. Until then, thank you for listening. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.