KOJO NNAMDIWelcome back. Increases in the number of migrant children from Central America crossing the border into the United States, with or without their parents, are making national headlines. Once they have arrived in the U.S., many of these children are released to sponsors in local communities around the country, including here in the Washington region. So, how are local public school systems seeking to serve this new group of students, many of whom are fleeing violence and struggling with the trauma and shock of a long journey and a new home? Joining me in studio is Patricia Chiancone, an international student specialist in Prince Georges County Public Schools. Pat Chiancone, thank you very much for joining us.

PATRICIA CHIANCONEThank you.

NNAMDIMigrant children, especially those who arrive at the U.S.-Mexico border without an adult, or those who have been separated from their parents at the border have been in the national news a lot lately, but usually the story stops at the border. What happens to these children after that?

CHIANCONESo, in our case, in Prince Georges County, most of the students come to register through our office, the International Student Counseling Office. And in our office is where they get places in a grade and where they're assessed for any kind of need. In our case, the students have come as unaccompanied students through the border and through the detention system. But once they're in our county, more than 70 percent of them are coming to a biological parent in the county.

CHIANCONESo, there's issues sometimes relating to reunification with the biological parent, but the other students, the other 20 or 30 percent, are reuniting or coming to live with sponsors who are not biological parents. So, we do register those students through our kinship care program.

NNAMDIAccording to the Office of Refugee Resettlements data, between October, 2018 and February, 2019, nearly 2,000 migrant children have been released to sponsors in the Washington Region, and have come here to live and go to school. Four-hundred-and-seventy-six of them are now in Prince Georges County. Are you seeing a noticeable increase in enrollment in the public schools?

CHIANCONEYes. Well, we've had an increase in enrollment, you know, since approximately 2013. But over that period that you just mentioned, we have approximately a 35 percent increase in enrollment over last school year.

NNAMDIWhere are most of the students coming from?

CHIANCONESo, our students are mainly coming from El Salvador, Honduras and Guatemala.

NNAMDIBased on a Supreme Court decision in the '80s, any child arriving here from another country has a right to a public education. Are there misconceptions about that?

CHIANCONEWell, there are always misconceptions, or possibly people don't understand the rules. But, yeah, the Supreme Court decision Plyler v. Doe basically decided in 1982 that a student's immigration status does not matter for attending public school. So, it also went a little further and extended it to say that school systems should not chill the right of access of students to school. So, in terms of our school system, that is a rule that we follow very closely -- and I'm sure other school systems in the area -- that we do not ask students about their immigration status.

NNAMDISo, that's where you come in. You're helping families enroll their kids in school. Briefly, can you give us a sense of what that process looks like?

CHIANCONESure. So, generally, they communicate with our office and make an appointment. And we're doing a couple of things when they get there. First of all, they're filling out -- and we're assisting them to do that -- all of the registration documentation that is normally required at a school. And then we are checking to see if they need English language services, ESOL services, through our ESOL testing team.

CHIANCONEAnd then after that, each of the students meets with a counselor to work on their grade placement and assessment of any other issues that the student might have. And, in our case, a very extensive -- a lot of work is done on reviewing a student's high school transcript, if they have brought that with them, or any school records from another country. It's also at the same time that we ask a log of questions. And so we really kind of have to formulate that in the way that a parent will understand and also be willing to answer it.

CHIANCONESo, we're just asking, basically, questions about educational background, if the student has any special needs, and how long has it been potentially since the student was in school, if they have interrupted schooling, and things like that.

NNAMDIAlso joining me in studio is Lauren Hurley. Lauren Hurley teaches English for speakers of other languages, ESOL, at Kennedy High School in Silver Spring, Maryland. Lauren, thank you for joining us.

LAUREN HURLEYThank you for having me.

NNAMDIAs I said, you teach English classes for speakers of other languages at Kennedy High school. Where are your students from, usually, and what are some of the challenges that you see?

HURLEYWe have students from all over the world, but the most recent that we've had in the past four months or so are also, as Patricia said, El Salvador, Honduras, Guatemala, Colombia, Ethiopia, Brazil, Vietnam and various countries in Africa, as well.

NNAMDIHas the composition of your classes changed at all over the years that you've been teaching it?

HURLEYYes. I think the numbers from those different countries vary by year, but since I've been at Kennedy, that has been pretty fluid.

NNAMDILauren Hurley, ESOL students typically have a high likelihood of dropping out from high school. Why, and what do you think can keep them in school?

HURLEYThat's an interesting question. I think that, unfortunately, we don't know the exact formula or answer to that. But what I've found is having a very strong relationship and connection to your students is the best way to keep them in school. At least in Montgomery County, the population that drops out the most is our ESOL population. So, we need to be especially mindful of building that connection, which starts with having empathy.

NNAMDIPat, how are immigrant students doing in Prince Georges County Public Schools? Do they also struggle to get to graduation day?

CHIANCONEI think it'd probably be a similar situation with struggling and having a lower graduation rate. The kids face a lot more challenges than some of the, you know, American-born kids. And some of those are related to things that happened to them in their country, or potentially things that happened to them on their visit here. And they also have a lot of stress. So, one of the things that we definitely have noted is that there -- it's very important to address those kind of issues. There also might be financial issues and issues related to the kind of precariousness of their immigration situation.

CHIANCONESo, all of those combined on the academic side, some of the students might have interrupted schooling, been out of school for some time due to various reasons in their country. Or, at the same time, you know, they may be suffering from the effects of things that happened to them in the past, which are really affecting how they're performing in the classroom. Because it's always difficult, as an international student, to come here, because of a different culture, a different language, a different school system, a different setup. But it's just made a little bit more difficult if you're coming from a particularly difficult situation, as they are.

NNAMDIJoining us in studio is Carlos Meza. He's a graduate of Kennedy High School. He came to Montgomery County from Honduras as a teenager. Carlos Meza, thank you for joining us.

CARLOS MEZAThank you for having me.

NNAMDIYou arrived here when you were 16 years old and attended Kennedy High School. Why did you decide to come to the United States from Honduras?

MEZAWell, poverty, lack of education. There is a lot of violence there, that I didn't want to be around those things.

NNAMDIOne of the things you were concerned about was your safety if you stayed in Honduras?

MEZAA lot of gangs were there. I didn't want to be in a situation that I couldn't get out of that situation. Like, I have so many friends that were doing some bad things, and I didn't want to -- didn't want anything bad happen to me.

NNAMDIYou started your trip to the U.S. not once, but twice, by yourself. What was that journey like for you? Can you describe it for us?

MEZAYeah, I tried it twice. It was so hard for me to do it, because it was a long...

NNAMDI(overlapping) How long did the first trip take?

MEZAMy first trip, it was two months, about two months.

NNAMDIAnd how did that trip end?

MEZAThe first time, I remember, when I was in Mexico, the Border Patrol, they sent me back to Honduras. I tried to cross the U.S. border, and they caught me, and they told me where am I from, and I said I'm from Honduras. And then they told me that it was illegal to cross the border, and they sent me back to Honduras. And I went back to Honduras, and I decided to try again.

NNAMDIHow long did it take for you to decide to try again?

MEZAThree days. Yeah, it took me three days.

HURLEYHe's very perseverant.

NNAMDIThree days, (laugh) and you tried again. How long did it take you the second time?

MEZAA month. It took me a month, but this one was even harder than the first time, because a lot of things happened to me. And not only to me, to everybody who was trying to get here. There's a lot of people trying to get here, but in the train, there's a lot of people starving. Sometimes they don't sleep. I mean, in my case, I didn't sleep. I didn't have food, didn't have anything to drink. But anyways, I was always perseverant. I never gave up. I would never be here.

NNAMDI(overlapping) And so, on your second try, you were successful.

MEZAYeah, on my second try, I was successful. And I made it because of my dreams, because I wanted over here. And I always said I will never give up. And I remember crossing the border. I did it different than the first time, and then they always cautioned me. But the U.S. immigration, they didn't send me back to Honduras. They helped me -- they tried to help me. They actually did it. They helped me.

NNAMDIThey helped you, and...

MEZAThat's why I'm here.

NNAMDI...that's how you started going to the Kennedy High School in Silver Spring, Maryland. What was that adjustment like, to being a student in an American high school? What was that adjustment like for you?

MEZAThat teachers all noticed my situation. I think the people who know me, they always were worrying about my situation and my concerns about being here in high school.

NNAMDI(overlapping) Because when you left Honduras at 16 years old, you were already in, like, the 12th grade, right?

MEZAYeah, there was a kind of college in Honduras. I was finishing after high school, college, I think is what I...

NNAMDIHere, you had to adjust being in, like, the 9th grade, right?

MEZAYeah, I went on to the 9th grade. It was hard.

NNAMDIThat was difficult for you.

MEZAYeah, it was difficult, because I was 16 years old, and maybe when I'm 21 or 22, I would be finishing high school. And that was stressful for me, because I wanted to take advantage of my time.

NNAMDIThat's completely understandable. Lauren, is Carlos' story fairly representative of the students in your classes?

HURLEYYes, I'd definitely say so. When Carlos shared his story with me in writing and speaking to me about it, he's one of the countless stories I've heard of his nature. So, it's really amazing to hear stories and people speaking like him, because I think to myself, I don't know if I would survive. I don't know if I could do what he could do. And I really -- we do a unit on beating the odds and survival, and I always start with, well, this is an easy unit for you, because you are surviving just by being in school every day. Because it takes a lot more work.

NNAMDIWell, assuming that there are other students like Carlos who have experienced extreme violence that caused them to leave their countries -- often alone -- to get here, traumatized by it, do you see evidence of that kind of trauma coming out in your classroom?

HURLEYYes. I think anybody that's had a journey here has experienced a traumatic incident, and there are things that come along with that. Unfortunately, I don't think school systems have an exact protocol for this, and it's really up to the individual teacher. And I think that comes back to that reciprocal relationship piece. I want to learn as much about my students as I want them to learn from me. And that includes their culture, their personality, their fears, their hopes, their strengths in and out of school. So, things that are academic and nonacademic, too. Learning about their journey, like Carlos', is also really important to connect with them.

NNAMDIWell, obviously, Carlos came out to you, so to speak, and explained his journey. But is it ever difficult for you to win your students' trust?

HURLEYI think that's one of my strengths, as a teacher. I show them vulnerability, and oftentimes they, in turn, show me vulnerability. I think if you give a lot of time -- and that's hard for teachers, because we're already pulled in a lot of directions -- but building relationships with your students, and strong ones, that give them a sense of belonging, take extra time. But if you're willing to give it, they give it right back to you. And, you know, using humor, making them feel welcome and just listening.

NNAMDIWell, let's see how that might have changed over time. Here is Ann in Washington, DC. Ann, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

ANNHi. Thanks for taking my call. I was an ESL teacher in DC for 20 years. I retired five years ago, so, possibly, things have changed. But, in my schools, which were pretty high language minority children, the ESL teachers were the second classroom teachers, and we didn't really, you know, have time to provide English instruction to the newcomers. And I'm just wondering how Prince Georges County handles English instructions on newcomers.

NNAMDIPat?

CHIANCONESo, we have a large ESOL program, and English instruction for newcomers differs slightly at the elementary, middle and high school level. But, for example, at the high school level, the student does receive what we call ESOL newcomer class. It'd be the first level of ESOL, English for speakers of other languages. And, at the same time, they'd receive classes that are learning about social studies and science that are sheltered classes. And they're made for ESOL students. And same thing for math classes.

CHIANCONEAnd so that level of support differs. As you get better in English, you know, you get less and less support. But you're getting the support from the beginning, specifically for newcomer students.

NNAMDIThank you very much for your call, Ann. We're going to take a short break. When we come back, we'll return to this conversation about migrant children in local and regional schools. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.

NNAMDIWelcome back. We're talking about migrant children in local schools with Carlos Meza. He's a graduate of Kennedy High School. He came to Montgomery County from Honduras as a teenager. Lauren Hurley teaches English for speakers of other languages at Kennedy High School in Silver Spring, Maryland. And Patricia Chiancone is an international student specialist in Prince Georges County Public Schools. Allow me to go directly back to the phones to Muriel, in Silver Spring. Muriel, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

MURIELHi, Kojo. Thank you for taking my call. And thank you for the teachers who are doing such great work to support children from Central America. I'm an artist and an educator from El Salvador. And I have a program that brings teachers to El Salvador, so that they're culturally and visually literate about Central America. And, you know, what Lauren was saying regarding building empathy and creating a sense of belonging for students I think can be done through art. And art can be used in an interdisciplinary way so that it connects to the history of the country, of the region. And it gives students a way to feel like they're being seen and represented. So, anyway, I just wanted to...

NNAMDI(overlapping) Well, thank you very much for raising that, because, Lauren, you have said that you think many of your students are seeking a sense of belonging. What are some of the ways that they end up finding it?

HURLEYWell, we know it's a basic need, so I think one of the ways is true, what our caller is saying. Art is a really great way that a lot of students express themselves, and noticing that art, noticing that skill in whatever way they're willing to show it. As long as it's recognized, I think it does help bring that sense of belonging together.

NNAMDICarlos, did you feel welcomed by other students when you first started at Kennedy High School?

MEZAYeah, so many students were able to help me, were able to teach me something that I didn't know. And by the teachers, as well. I remember some teachers giving me the opportunity to share my story or an opinion to the class. I really felt welcomed.

NNAMDIWas Lauren Hurley particularly helpful in that way?

MEZAYeah, yeah. She is an amazing teacher, as a person, as a teacher, as a woman, she helped me a lot. I remember my first year, I didn't know anything about high school or people. I was afraid of racism, was afraid of fighting, or some bad thing that always happens in high school.

NNAMDILauren Hurley, you talk to your students about that, don't you?

HURLEYYeah.

NNAMDIAbout the kinds of things they're likely to encounter here that may surprise them, including racism.

HURLEYYes. I think that is a really important piece of assimilation into American culture. There are different laws, customs, rules in high school that are very different from the places that my students are coming from. And, many times, there's nobody to explain those things to them. For example, laws about teens, what a curfew is, what age of consent is, what racism they might experience from people in their community, from the police, and maybe -- hopefully not -- but from other teachers and students.

NNAMDIHere is Jose in Alexandria, Virginia. Jose, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

JOSEThank you. I just want to mention that there are external factors through the schools that influence these kids, and one of them is, for example, the racism that exists in our area. And some of the racism is coming from African Americans, other Latinos that are white when the kids are dark, etcetera. That's one piece that I want to mention. And the kids don't know where they belong. They still haven't figured out their identity.

JOSEGoing to identity, I would like to mention these methodologies that are used. ESOL is really more about assimilation, but many times, they don't recognize -- and I know the methodology, a little bit of an (word?) education. And those two fields, you know, don't agree with each other. But the kids are language-focused. For example, talking about race, the issue of identity. There are five models of the stages of ethnic identity.

JOSEI use it with kids when I'm working with them, with young people, but it's not used in the schools. Their knowledge of those cultural issues normally is limited to race and language.

NNAMDIAnd I have to limit your time here, because we're running out of it very quickly. And I'd like Pat Chiancone to comment on what you just heard, because some of the schools in Prince Georges County have been serving migrants students for a while now. And others are just learning how to do so. Can you describe what you're seeing, and also respond to some of the points that Jose made?

CHIANCONESure. It's definitely true that in Prince Georges County, for many, many years, the immigrant population -- especially the Latino population -- was in the northern part of the county. But over the last ten, maybe 12 years, there are more immigrant students, Latino students, English-language learners in the southern part, as well. So, what we find is that it sometimes is a bit of a learning curve on some of the schools of learning how to work with the immigrant population. So, that's where we see the professional development of schools and school staff.

CHIANCONEAnd we're talking about all school staff, including the registration staff, to learn more about immigrants, immigrant students, to learn ways that they can help immigrant students succeed in school, and to communicate with immigrant parents. So, we have a lot of ways that can be done, but it's definitely something that has to be done deliberately, and not just waiting to see if there's adjustment. I definitely see, like, there's -- in our situation in Prince Georges County, literally, half of our school system, the students are immigrant or the child of an immigrant. So, that's definitely become something that we focused a lot on.

NNAMDICarlos, one of the reasons you left Honduras was fear of gangs. And we know gangs are also an issue here. Did you encounter anything like that in school here?

MEZANo. I mean, I usually see some people that is involved in these things, in gangs, or doing some wrong things. But I think that here, it was a little bit more safe, depends on what the students are interested in. Like, for me and my guys, I've been always interested, you know, in learning. And some of the kids, I don't know, they have a different point of view or a different mindset.

NNAMDIIs that one of the issues you have to deal with with students, Lauren Hurley?

HURLEYYes. That has been an experience I've had to deal with several times in school. And my belief is that no matter if a student is a member of a gang, has been a member of a gang in the past, they're still my student. And it's my job to make them feel safe in an environment and give them an alternative option. Knowing that there's a different choice might make a difference in the long run.

NNAMDIWell, obviously, something worked in the case of Carlos, because he has graduated, successfully, from Kennedy...

HURLEYYes, he has. (applause)

NNAMDI...High School. Carlos, congratulations to you on doing that.

MEZAThank you.

NNAMDIAnd before we go, Pat Chiancone, what should local teachers and school administrators know about the young people who are arriving in their local schools?

CHIANCONEWell, I think what they really need to think about is that the kids generally have a dream. They have a dream of something that they want to make of their lives. And that the more we learn about their culture, then the more we learn about their experience, the better we're going to be able to help them. And I think we should look back also a little bit in our past and see that this is not the first time we've had a large group of immigrant students come to the United States and struggle and have to learn the language.

CHIANCONEAnd, very likely, the reality is, what we're going through with these students is the same thing that's happened for hundreds of years. The American public school system has been the traditional way that students become part of the country. And we will continue to do that.

NNAMDIPatricia Chiancone is an international student specialist in Prince Georges County Public Schools. Thank you so much for joining us.

CHIANCONEThank you.

NNAMDILauren Hurley teaches English for speakers of other languages at Kennedy High School in Silver Spring, Maryland. Thank you for joining us.

HURLEYThank you for having me.

NNAMDIAnd Carlos Meza is a graduate of Kennedy High School. He came to Montgomery County from Honduras as a teenager. Carlos, thank you for joining us, and good luck to you.

MEZAThank you. Thank you so much. Thank you for having me.

NNAMDIToday's conversation on migrant children in the local schools was produced by Margaret Barthel, and our update on striped bass was produced by Julie Depenbrock. Coming up tomorrow, we'll conclude our series on local transportation with a discussion on alternative transit. We'll dig into how ride-hailing, car sharing, dockless scooters and more have transformed our region. That all starts tomorrow at noon. Until then, thank you for listening. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.