D.C. Councilmember Elissa Silverman talks about yet another contentious D.C. Council meeting and the latest coronavirus news. And Arlington County Board Chair Libby Garvey talks about how the county is handling the pandemic and rethinking policing.
The NFL reacts to new child and domestic abuse allegations against players as it grapples with how to handle their behavior off the field. Apple says its new iPhone will thwart authorities’ efforts to access user data even as cellphone spying increases in our region. And Scotland goes to the polls to answer one question: Should it be independent? Join Kojo to discuss these topics — and anything else on your mind — in this edition of Your Turn.
MR. KOJO NNAMDIWelcome back. The end of summer has brought with it a wild few weeks of news from international concerns about the Ebola crisis in West Africa and violence by the Islamic State to headlines about abuse in the NFL, local spying and new technology. Who can forget the Scottish vote happening today? So we're making it Your Turn. Your Turn means you're the guest on today's show. So start calling now, 800-433-8850. You can send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. Shoot us a tweet @kojoshow or simply go to our website kojoshow.org and make your comment there.
MR. KOJO NNAMDITo kick off the conversation, I want to turn first to the headlines rocking the NFL these past two weeks. Couldn't really get much worse. Yesterday Arizona Cardinals' running back Jonathan Dwyer was arrested on charges related to an alleged domestic violence incident. That news coming just hours after Carolina Panthers' defensive end Greg Hardy and Minnesota Vikings' running back Adrian Peterson were placed on the NFL's exempt list.
MR. KOJO NNAMDIPeterson is facing charges of child abuse after he was accused of beating his 4-year-old in May with a switch. And Hardy was convicted in July after he allegedly assaulted his former girlfriend. And of course, the league and its commissioner Roger Goodell have been criticized over responses to former Baltimore Ravens' running back Ray Rice as caught on video assault of his then fiancé in a casino elevator. It's a rash of serious allegations that bring up bigger questions about domestic violence, child abuse and the responsibilities of organizations like the NFL to take action quickly.
MR. KOJO NNAMDIWhen it comes to abuse allegations, should the NFL suspend first and ask questions later? Are the NFL policies tough enough? Should there be a zero tolerance policy against any allegations of abuse, 800-433-8850? The Minnesota Vikings allowed running back Adrian Peterson to play or were allowing him to play while he faced a child abuse charge for allegedly spanking his 4-year-old son with a wooden switch.
MR. KOJO NNAMDIWhen, in your view, does physical punishment become child abuse? Is spanking or any kind of corporal punishment acceptable parenting these days? Should physical punishment be practiced at school? Were you spanked as a child? Do you spank your own children, 800-433-8850? You can send email to email@example.com.
MR. KOJO NNAMDIAnd today is the day more than 4 million Scottish voters going to the polls even as we speak to answer one big question. Should that country be -- or should Scotland be independent from Britain? Should that territory be independent from Britain? It's a vote that's nearly three decades in the making and one that could break up one of the west's oldest political unions. Polls show it's a tight contest that will hinge largely on attitudes of Scottish nationalism and opinions on British politicians.
MR. KOJO NNAMDIThat and much more, 800-433-8850. You can send email to firstname.lastname@example.org. It is Your Turn E. W. in Tacoma Park, Md. Hi, E. W.
E. W.How you doing, Kojo?
NNAMDII'm doing well.
W.Good. Good show today. And I did want to weigh in on this Adrian Peterson thing as it relates to, you know, whether it's child abuse or disciplining children and how acceptable it is. And I don't want my comments to be taken in a vacuum either. I know this is a broad topic that has a lot of variables. But the same voices that we hear speaking out against this kind of discipline are silent when it comes to the police hitting young black boys over the head with belly clubs or putting them in chokeholds.
W.And one of the things that is often said in our community is either I'll do it now or the police are going to do it later when you have no regard for authority. And yes, everything should be done within reason and is relative. But as it relates to spanking children, again, it seems to have been dismissed in the media that, hey, my parents did it, a lot of parents did it and we turned out okay. And that's not to say that everybody has a freedom to just go buck wild on children, but there has been some success with this method. And for it to be dismissed in the media is kind of, you know, just a bad thing.
NNAMDILet me raise a few issues with you, E. W. Michael Eric Dyson has an op-ed piece in today's edition of the New York Times in which he says, neither when we hit our children nor when the police hit somebody, is there any discipline involved." He said, The roots of the word discipline has to do with order. It has to do with being able to organize oneself to deal with challenges and adversity. He says, what we're talking about when we talk about either spanking or what the police do is about punishing, is really about taking our kids and punishing them for things that we think are wrong. And there are other ways to punish people.
NNAMDIThere are people who say, well, as you pointed out, my parents did it and I turned out all right. There are others who say, well, when you know better you do better. We may -- if we have more information on the effects of corporal punishment than our parents did, then we should change our own habits accordingly. What do you say?
W.(unintelligible) first comment, you know, out of chaos often times comes order, and not all the time. Not that this has to be the exclusive way but definitely should not be excluded. Every species -- and not to say that we're below, you know, the animalistic species, but other species discipline their children. And it's not to hurt them. It's out of a sense of -- sometimes, not all the time, but sometimes after other measures have been used, that measure should be included, is just my thought.
NNAMDIBut I was just saying that Michael Eric Dyson said, that's not discipline, that's punishment.
W.No, but you also said out of discipline comes order. And my statement to that was, sometimes out of chaos -- not sometimes but order comes out of chaos as well. And so you just can't say that in a vacuum that, you know, discipline is order. Sometimes there are things and measures responsibilities have to be, you know, thrusted upon children in a way that they remember. And it's...
NNAMDIOkay. Well, if we are allowed to punish our children physically and the law, of course, allows us to punish our children physically, where should we draw the line?
W.Well, we should draw the line when it becomes, you know, evident that, you know, physical abuse has been given to the point of -- again, you know, beyond -- I mean, it's relative. You can't say at what level because, you know, a spanking for one kid that's 13 would be too harsh for a kid that's 3. So you have to let the parents parent. And that's something that until it's become, you know, we're -- you know, I don't even want to put levels on it because it just...
NNAMDIWell, if you don't put levels on it what you're saying to me is that, look Kojo, this is your child. If you choose to beat your child until your child is bleeding, until your child has to be hospitalized, that's your business, not mine. Is that what you're saying?
W.Yeah, yeah, it's -- when it becomes to the point of hospitalization, that's too much, Kojo. But a spanking on the back -- you know, is not too much. And, again, there's other things in our society that there are no limits drawn on and, you know, I think this is one of them that we just have to leave it up to loving parents.
W.We'll -- you know, we have a court of law for those times when it's gone too far. And then the jury would make that decision.
NNAMDIDo you think there should be a court of law involved in Adrian Peterson's case?
W.I'm sorry, can you repeat that?
NNAMDIDo you think there should be a court of law involved in Adrian Peterson's case? There is.
W.Yes, I do. Anytime you spank the child and whips in private areas, yeah, you don't do that. That's just too much. Yeah.
NNAMDIOkay. Thank you very much for your call. You too can call us at 800-433-8850. Do you support Scotland's independence? Why or why not, 800-433-8850? Did you ever think you'd see the day when Scotland could break from the United Kingdom? On now to Marshon who is in Largo, Md. Marshon, your turn.
MARSHONHow you doing, Kojo?
NNAMDII'm doing well, Marshon.
MARSHONThat's good, that's good. It's my first time calling in (unintelligible) . But I called just to talk about the Ray Rice situation. I do sometimes feel like corporations get too involved in the personal lives of employees before -- like, they get their day in court before they have everything said and done with the history that they're involving themselves in...
MARSHON...like in the Rice situation.
NNAMDIWell, do you consider Ray Rice simply an employee? He is a public figure. he is a football star. At that level, you relinquish some or a few rights to privacy, don't you think?
MARSHAWNPolicy, yes. But to be judged before you are judged, no.
NNAMDIWell, if your employer saw a video of you knocking out your wife in an elevator, do you think your employer would say, okay, Marshawn, let's just wait until what happens in court. And if you are found guilty, then I'll suspend or fire you. But until that time, you're cool with me.
MARSHAWNHonestly, no. I do not think he would want to wait. But I do think he should.
NNAMDIYou think he should wait?
NNAMDIEven if he saw the video that probably shouldn't have been released to the public, but even if he saw the video, you would think that he should wait.
MARSHAWNYes. Only because, number one, it didn't happen while I was on the clock or on NFL property. And then, number two, it is a matter -- a civil matter between me and wife. And number three, just because it's in the public eye does not make it a public issue. A public issue is violence against humans in general from another human. That's a public issue, yes. No human should be, you know, violating another human's rights...
NNAMDIWell, let me...
MARSHAWN...physically or otherwise. But...
NNAMDILet me be really provocative. After you saw the Rodney King beating, did you think that those police officers have been allowed to continue policing, should have been allowed to continue their jobs until they were convicted in a court of law?
UNIDENTIFIED MALEYou shouldn't block the driveway, please.
MARSHAWNOh, okay. I got to (unintelligible)
NNAMDIAre you talking to other people while you're talking to me, Marshawn? I really wanted you to answer that question. Marshawn, are you still there?
MARSHAWNYeah, (unintelligible) up to me.
MALENo, no. Just back up.
NNAMDIOh, well, Marshawn, I'm going to have to put you on hold while we take a break. And when we come back, we'll see if you can talk without being interrupted. It's Your Turn. You, too, can call us at 800-433-8850 with any topic that is on your mind, recent editions of this broadcast or events in the news. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.
NNAMDIWelcome back. It is Your Turn. The Washington Post today reports that someone could be snooping on your cell phone every time you go by the White House, the Capitol, Dulles Airport and many other local sites. That story followed a mobile security executive as he tracked signals coming from devices that hijack your mobile phone for use by police and intelligence agencies. The Washington Post report flagged at least 18 locations around the city where so-called IMSI catchers trick mobile phones into thinking they've logged onto legitimate cell networks such as Verizon or AT&T, when in fact, the signals have been hijacked.
NNAMDIAnd that news comes as Apple confirmed yesterday that its new operating system, iOS 8 will make it impossible for Apple to share its users' data with law enforcement. It will block the police from your cell phone -- from your iPhone. Do you agree with that? Are you concerned about law enforcement's ability to access your cell phone data? Give us a call, 800-433-8850. If the lines are busy, shoot us an email to email@example.com. Allow me to conclude my conversation with Marshawn in Largo, Md. Marshawn, I was asking you about the Rodney King beating and whether you thought the police officers there should be allowed to continue working on the force until they were found guilty in a court of law.
MARSHAWNYes, Kojo. I would say no they didn't.
NNAMDIWell, what's the difference between -- what's the difference between them and the Ray Rice situation?
MARSHAWNI guess I would have to think about that before I actually had an answer other than nothing, at the moment.
NNAMDIOkay. Well, we'll leave you with nothing for the time being and move on to Abubakar in Glenn Dale, Md. Abubakar, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.
ABUBAKARThanks, Kojo. Kojo, I'm in doubt of something. Probably you might be able to clarify. If you remember, I think it was last month, that it was three Ebola patients that came from Liberia, you know, those include the doctors.
ABUBAKARAnd there was one that was unidentified. You know, and they treated the two doctors with ZMapp and ZMapp cured those doctors. But the unidentified one was never treated with ZMapp. I think they had said that they would try them with something else. But they never had tried to press it.
ABUBAKARDo you have any idea? Because since that happened, you know...
NNAMDINo, I don't remember -- I frankly don't remember the story that way. I thought that all -- that two doctors returned, or two people returned and they were both treated with what was then and I still consider it an experimental treatment. As a matter of fact, one of those doctors was on "All Things Considered" yesterday evening, talking about testifying before Congress about his experience. But I don't remember someone coming back and not being treated with that experimental treatment. And of course, they are still not absolutely sure that it was the experimental treatment that led to their recovery.
ABUBAKARYeah, and Kojo, but it was on the -- excuse me for -- it was on, I mean, it was on the news that time, you know, on NPR.
NNAMDIAnd you're trying to find out that -- if there was this third person, what happened with that third person?
ABUBAKARCorrect. The third person was unidentified, you know, and they did not called names (sic) and it was detailed...
NNAMDIWell, we're going to check on...
ABUBAKAR...they will not try him by -- they will not try him by ZMapp. They will try him by some other -- something else that -- or some other medication that...
NNAMDII don't know what's the source of your information on that, Abubakar, but we're going to look into that. And hopefully before the broadcast is over, we can offer some clarification on it. That is not my recollection of it. But of course, my recollection is not perfect. So we'll see if we can find out some more before the end of the broadcast. Thank you very much for your call. It is Your Turn, if you call 800-433-8850. On to Arlene, who is in Davis, W.Va. Arlene, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.
ARLENEHi, Kojo. Thank you. Listen, I just wanted to say that, for your listeners who care about climate change, and I know you've done some good programs on (word?) .
NNAMDIThere's a rally coming up and you want to tell our listeners that they should go to...
NNAMDI...the rally coming up on climate change.
ARLENEIf they care. Yeah.
NNAMDIYou're using Your Turn in order to advertise your own pet cause.
ARLENEYeah. But also I wanted to ask you a question about it that I actually could find out, but I don't really know an easy way.
NNAMDIAsk me. I know all.
ARLENEWhy are they doing -- are they doing the U.N.? I mean, what's happening in New York. Is there a meeting there that's going on?
ARLENEIs that the reason they're doing it that…
NNAMDII don't know the reason that they're doing it. But I've been hearing discussions of it. It involves people who are involved as environmental activists and people who are involved as labor activists. A number of unions are also taking place in this, and they're trying to make a relationship between the environmental issues and the economic issues that they feel are facing the nation in general and poor people in particular, because they're making the argument that the environmental issues affect poor people the most. But beyond that, you're going to have to go to a website someplace to find out more specifically what they're doing. Because while I may know everything, I don't know that.
ARLENEWell, thank you for having this open call so I could do that.
NNAMDIThank you very much for your call. You, too, can call on Your Turn. The number is 800-433-8850. Would you buy the new iPhone for its improved encryption software that would allow you to keep the police out of your business, so to speak? Should mobile phones have software that indicates every time your cell phone is accessed by an unknown signal? 800-433-8850. Let's see what Neil in Wheaton, Md., wants to talk about. Neil, your turn. Hi, Neil.
MIGUELGood afternoon. Actually, the name was Miguel in Wheaton, not Neil. I apologize.
MIGUELNevertheless, I had a question and a comment concerning Scottish autonomy.
MIGUELNow, how detrimental do you believe it would be to, let's say, the economic system of the possibly newly created Scotland to be completely autonomous from the -- from England -- from the United Kingdom?
NNAMDIWhy how detrimental? Some people would say, how advantageous do you think it could be?
MIGUELAh, so this is actually the nature of my question. Thank you very much. Would it in fact be detrimental or advantageous, in your opinion? Thank you for that clarification, sir.
NNAMDII cannot say for sure whether it would be detrimental. Because obviously the Scottish currency is tied to the currency being used in the U.K. Generally, there are issues of finances and economics that I am not familiar enough with to be able to make that call. And I suspect a great deal of that will have to do with after the decision is made. If they do vote for independence, then there are going to be negotiations about those issues. So it's difficult to tell at this point whether or not it will be detrimental or advantageous. That just -- that will have to do with the negations that follow this vote, if yes wins.
MIGUELMm-hmm. And apart from the economics, do you think that there will be any advantageous or detrimental effects to the other infrastructure of Scotland...
MIGUEL...say, whether it be military, police, public safety?
NNAMDIAgain, that will have to do with the negotiations. I think that what people are voting on at this point are not the finer points of the relationship. What they are voting on is whether there should be the same relationship that there is now. And as you know, 97 people -- 97 percent of the voting eligible population, including 16-year-olds, have registered to vote in that election. That's amazing. And they're expecting a turnout of some 80 percent of people in that election. And they're going to be voting really along cultural and emotional lines about whether or not they still want to be tied to the U.K. or not. And that's where the passion of the argument is standing at this point.
NNAMDIThey see themselves as a part of the anti-colonial movement and don't want to see themselves as a colony anymore. Of course, that is not how they are technically seen in the world. But that's how a lot of Scots see themselves at this point. I can't call it, is what I'm trying to say, Neil.
MIGUELYeah. Yeah. Now do you believe that that emotion, that vigor for independence has at all clouded or obscured the vision of any problems that may arise post a vote -- after the vote, I should say?
NNAMDIIt can. It can. It's, you know, emotions can always cloud one's view of reality. But if that emotion is valid and expresses itself at the polls, then people have to go along with the decision that was made, and either face or enjoy the consequences, as the case may be.
MIGUELYeah. Yes, sir.
NNAMDIBut, Neil, thank you very much for your call. I do have to move along. I want to go now to Jaron in Beltsville, Md. Jaron, your turn.
JARONHello. How are you doing today?
JARONYes. I was listening about the Ray Rice and the Rodney King. The man who was unable to answer the question. I believe that the police were carrying out a civic duty and they were actually on their job when they committed the beating. And along with the racial divide, it's hard to compare those two instances together.
NNAMDIWell, I was just talking about the fact that if there is video, if one is seen to be doing something, should an employer necessarily wait until a court of law weighs in before that employer decides whether or not it is against the standard that he or she would like their employees to meet?
JARONYeah. I guess it all depends. Like, if you look at the Chris Brown situation, he was convicted. Did the probation. And he wasn't dropped by his record label.
JARONSo I guess it's a case-by-case basis.
NNAMDIAnd wait a minute. The fact that he wasn't dropped by his record label caused a whole lot of people to be very upset at the time.
NNAMDIAnd so you're in a situation where public opinion -- if people see a video, or in the case of Rihanna, the results of the violence that took place, people have very strong opinions about things like that. But in the case of Chris Brown, as you know, he just had another case here in D.C. in which he just plead out.
JARONThat's right, he did the plea deal.
NNAMDIYep, he sure did.
JARONThat's absolutely true.
NNAMDIAnd his career still lives, as something...
JARONYes. And it will go on. I'm not saying -- well, these people are celebrities. Everything's amplified. These incidents happen every single day. It all depends on who gets a hold of it.
NNAMDICorrect. Thank you very much for your call. We got an email from Susan in Severna Park who says, "I wonder how the football player would react if the coach or team owner whipped him with a stick if he made a mistake on the field. Would he learn not to make a mistake, never?" Well, there was a basketball coach at Rutgers University, the men's basketball coach there, who was captured on video, I think, berating and striking players. And he was fired from his job and replaced. So, yes, it happens to a lot of people.
NNAMDIWe got an email from Jan in Fairfax who said, "Our parents may have spanked us and we turned out okay, which is not always true itself. But our parents also believed separate, but equal was okay. Children should be seen and not heard was okay. A woman's place in the home was okay. Just because people did something in the past, doesn't mean it's okay. With more knowledge, many, many parents have concluded that corporal punishment doesn't work. And it certainly doesn't teach our children problem solving. It is violent and teaches our children to fear parents, principals, adults." That email we got from Jan in Fairfax.
NNAMDIAnd we're running out of time very rapidly. But who shall I go to next? I think this time we will try Victor in Arlington, Va. Victor, your turn.
VICTORHi, Kojo. How are you doing? Thanks for having my...
VICTOR...having me on. I just want to say, I was listening. And you know, it seems a lot of the topics kind of tie together through film and through video. And things like we have violence like in the Ray Rice...
NNAMDIWe have become a video-obsessed nation. Go ahead.
VICTORThings like in the Ray Rice situation, I mean, these things happen daily. But it's not until it's filmed and released to the public that you kind of garner any type of reaction. And you know, that type of thing also kind of translates to the Islamic State videos with the U.S. journalists, as you know. That kind of violence has been happening all the time. But it's not until it's filmed and released to an audience that, you know, anybody gets upset about it. I just thought it was interesting how it all tied together.
NNAMDIWell, there are those who believe that that ISIS video had such a shock effect on the nation that it is causing us to rush to war. Do you agree?
VICTOROh, certainly. Definitely. I mean, you try not to be emotional when you make these type of decisions. But, you know, it seems like everybody's kind of reacting, you know, very dramatically.
NNAMDILike I said, we have become a video-obsessed nation. We don't have, in return to the response to our earlier caller, much on the third Ebola patient at Atlanta's Emory University. He's currently being treated at the same isolation unit as the previous patients who survived. He arrived Sept. 9. Another American doctor infected with Ebola arrived last week in Nebraska. His condition apparently continues to improve. And that's all the information we have. And that's, frankly, all the time we have. Thanks to all of you for calling, emailing or tweeting us.
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