MR. MARC FISHERFrom WAMU 88.5, at American University in Washington, welcome to "The Politics Hour." I'm Marc Fisher sitting in for Kojo Nnamdi. Virginia comes to this week's show bearing extraordinary gifts. The trial that's already the best in show town. The trial of former Governor Bob McDonnell and his wife.

MR. MARC FISHERAnd then a dramatic court ruling on gay marriage. And just this morning, the resignation of House Minority Leader Eric Cantor. Patrick Madden is our guest analyst today. He's a reporter at WAMU 88.5. And we just have to be thankful to the great commonwealth of Virginia for providing these gifts.

MR. PATRICK MADDENYeah, you talk about gifts, I mean, just today, that's what's making all the headlines this morning. We've seen -- out of this McDonnell trial we've seen these great exhibits. This picture of the governor riding in a Ferrari with his hair swept back.

FISHERIt's Kennedy-esqe.

MADDENVery Kennedy-esqe or like a 1980s, you know, movie. I was thinking "Fast Times at Ridgemont High."

FISHERThat'll do.

MADDENBut that's a bad pun. Also, the Rolex, with the governor sort of showing this big expensive watch. I mean, you can't make this up.

FISHER$7,000 gift from Jonnie Williams, the head of Star Scientific. The kind of gift you and I get in the mail all the time.

MADDENAnd it's just the details are so salacious, this sort of love triangle involving Jonnie Williams and the governor and his wife -- not a love triangle, but that the -- whether this was sort of -- there was a crush and that's why. And it's just a very messy trial.

FISHERSo for all these months leading up to the trial, the expectation was that the governor would say he didn't know that these gifts were in any way connected to any state action on behalf of Williams' company, Star Scientific. But, in fact, when the trial began on Tuesday, instead we had a whole new storyline, which is this notion that the first lady of Virginia, Maureen McDonnell, was actually seeking all of these gifts because she was essentially buddying up to a guy she had a crush on.

FISHERAnd just this morning in the Washington Post, columnist Petula Dvorak cast a rather skeptical eye on this whole notion that there is a crush there. She says, "I was waiting for her to clasp her hands together and moon, 'Oh, Jonnie,' or maybe blow him a kiss. Her puppy crush is a sad act, scripted to avoid jail time for allegedly selling the prestige of the governor's office in exchange for the Rolex on her husband's wrist, the Ferrari joy ride, the private jet trips, and on and on and on."

MADDENIt's as if this trial couldn't get any more salacious, we're going to bring that component into it. But, you know, you look at these trials, these political corruption trials involving high-profile figures, and the track record, in terms of federal prosecutions is spotty. It's not easy to get a conviction. You look at Ted Stevens, you look at, of course, Senator John Edwards. And so it's…

FISHERYou really…

MADDEN…going to be difficult, I think, to…

FISHERThis jury is going to have to be persuaded that all of these gifts were a specific gift in return for official state action by the governor on behalf of this company in some sort of illegal way. And so that connection is what the prosecutors are really driving at. And you see in these first days of questioning, where they're trying again and again to make that linkage, to get Jonnie Williams, now in his second day on the stand, to say, yes, I gave this in expectation that the governor would then do X, Y or Z.

MADDENThat quid pro quo.

FISHERExactly. Well, that trial's expected to go on for five more weeks. And we will have a further -- a chance to discuss it with one of our guests later this hour when Virginia Attorney General Mark Herring joins us on the program. And we'll also be talking later in the hour with Edward "Smitty" Smith. He's a Democratic candidate for attorney general in the District of Columbia.

FISHERBut first, speaking of the District of Columbia, there was news this week that the FBI will relocate from its current downtown Washington site, to one of three places. So the giant list of possible locations has been narrowed to three. Two in Maryland, one in Virginia. The two in Maryland are in Greenbelt and Landover. And the one in Virginia is in Springfield. This has been touted as a big loss for the city. The city, obviously, didn't get one of its proposed sites on the final list. But is it all a loss for the District?

MADDENWell, of course, you know, just in raw numbers, sure. It's a loss. You look at jobs, you look at the economic activity of the folks who worked at the FBI, the people that would like to visit it. But on the other hand, this -- if you look at where it's located right along Pennsylvania Avenue, I mean, this is a spot that could add a lot of money to the District's tax rolls.

MADDENIt, you know, whatever is going to be put in that -- in the place -- in its place right there, will obviously bring in -- will also have a lot of jobs, will also have actually a lot more money coming into the District. And just the security around that site really was a problem. A long (unintelligible)…

FISHERIt was a fortress.

MADDENIt was a fortress.

FISHERI mean, you know, a lot of people criticize the architecture, the last greatest bastion of brutalism in the District, a truly ugly building with this horrifying concrete moat around it. So a lot of people will be thrilled to see that be blasted to smithereens. And if it is replaced by something that is vital and had -- brings a lot of street life, there is the notion that this will be an improvement for street life in the District and for the tax base.

FISHERBut looking to the suburbs, the three contenders for the FBI Headquarters, which is a place that brings 11,000 people into a location, is fierce. And there's high-stakes jockeying going on. The Lerner family, the owners of the Washington Nationals, own the former Landover Mall site, which is one of the finalists. And you have to wonder whether the government will want to do business with a family that just this week was revealed to be involved in years-long legal wrangling with the Baltimore Orioles and its owner, Peter Angelos, over the TV rights to the Nationals.

FISHERSo do you want to get involved with a family, a company that litigious and that difficult to deal with? On the other hand, there's the Greenbelt site, right next to the Metro station. And there the partner would be a combination of Metro and private developer. And then finally there is the site in Springfield, which -- as Mark Herring will probably tell us -- is the best site.

MADDENFrom his perspective.

FISHERYeah, and Virginia does have an advantage in that they can put all of their eggs in that one basket and make a big campaign for one site, rather than having to play with (unintelligible) .

MADDENAnd I -- but I do think, though, that for Prince George's County, which, obviously, is trying, you know, desperately to really bring these big name, big ticket items to the county. This would be a big win for them. And I think the Senators, which, it seems like that's where a lot of the pressure or the lobbying will be coming from, they're going to have to really push behind these two sites in Prince George's County.

FISHERAnd also this week, we had news that Marion Barry's autobiography, which we've talked about before on this program, titled, "Mayor For Life," Loose Lips, over at Washington City Paper, got a hold of some of the email traffic in the weeks and months leading up to publication of the book, where they found that actually the book originally, in its unedited form, was a lot tougher in some ways.

FISHERThere was a much less apologetic version of Barry's infamous remarks about dirty Asian shops in Southeast Washington. As well as some -- a bit of ego trumpeting, in which the mayor for life said that he wanted his co-author or ghost writer's name shrunken on the title page. And he also was never happy with that title, "Marion Barry: Mayor for Life." It's a term that he'd always been derisive of through the years.

MADDENRight.

FISHERAnd it turns out that he wanted the title to be, "Marion Barry: A Badge of Courage."

MADDENWell, of course, this is the problem with using, you know, using your government email, whether it's a staff or if you're the councilmember, for these types of things, which obviously you should not be doing when you are on the job. It's sort of…

FISHERBecause a snarky reporter can say, "I'd like to see all the emails…

MADDENExactly.

FISHER…to do with Marion Barry's book, please."

MADDENBut on the other hand, in this age of these political memoirs, which are so -- I mean, they -- just the titles, you can't understand what they're saying. Very boring and you're not even sure if anyone actually reads them. At least this one has some excitement behind it.

FISHER"Mayor for Life," absolutely. Well, speaking of "Mayor for Life," and the what -- sometimes wily ways of D.C. politics, we have in studio -- our guest is Edward "Smitty" Smith. He is a Democratic candidate for something that didn't exist before this election cycle, and that is attorney general of the District of Columbia. And this election is coming up in November.

FISHERAnd Mr. Smith grew up in the District. He was a lawyer at Hogan and Hartson, which has since changed its name. And then worked in the Obama campaign and in various positions in the Obama administration. What was your last position there?

MR. EDWARD "SMITTY" SMITHMy last position, I served as a chief of staff on a technology task force at the FCC, helping to manage and oversee a team of about 60 lawyers, engineers and economists on one of the toughest tech issues that the government was dealing with.

FISHERAnd are you in that position now or…

SMITHNo. Because of the Hatch Act I am 100 percent on board with this campaign. I've jumped in with both feet. And I've got my supporters in with me.

FISHERSo you had to resign from your job in order to run for this office?

SMITHAbsolutely. But when you're committed to something then you don't think twice about it.

FISHERWell, so why would someone be committed to running for an office that doesn't exist in this form, as yet? What is it about this office that you -- what's the potential there that you think is worth quitting your job for?

SMITHWell, I think there's tremendous amount of potential for the attorney general's office. You're absolutely right in that it has, you know, it's still evolving and this is the first time it's been elected. But I think that the attorney general's office has an ability to influence a lot of different areas or a lot of different issues around the city. Issues that I care about personally because of my upbringing and because of my background.

SMITHIssues like juvenile justice reform. Issues like D.C. autonomy. And so these are the things that I'm talking to people around the city about. And this is what you're seeing resonate around the city. People are getting excited.

FISHERYou can join our conversation by calling 1-800-433-8850. Or email us at kojo@wamu.org. We're also doing streaming video of today's show and you can watch at kojoshow.org. And our guest is Smitty Smith, the Democratic candidate for attorney general. Patrick Madden?

MADDENSo, Smitty, I'm going to toss you a question that has real-life implications. It involves this gun ruling that happened this week with the federal judge overturning the city's ban on handguns in public. Now there's -- the judge has granted a stay. So it's not in effect right now. And for the attorney general right now, Irv Nathan, this is -- there are really two avenues and they both -- they're both tough.

MADDENOne would be appealing this decision, which probably is the most politically attractive option, but, you know, if there are appeals and it goes up to the Supreme Court, we could have another Heller decision where we then, all across the country, you know, it has big implications, you know, universal carry all across the country. Or would you sit back and say, no. The city should comply with the judge's ruling and re-craft is gun laws? What would you do as attorney general?

SMITHYeah, this is tough question. I think that the outcome in the Palmer case is the natural extension of what we see coming out of Heller and -- a case that I think was unfortunately wrongly decided, but it is the law. And so, you know, the attorney general -- you're correct -- is faced with an interesting dilemma because there is the opportunity for appeal. You know, I do not know the likelihood of a successful appeal in this.

SMITHI think that -- one thing that I am thankful for is that the judge has issued a stay to give us a little bit of time to think about it and strategize, and to give the D.C. Council an opportunity to think it through, a way to re-craft D.C. gun laws, in order to perhaps comply, you know, with Heller, while still, you know, providing the protection that we need for people in our city.

SMITHSo I would, you know, it's a very tough issue. You know, and -- but I don't think that you need to only take one track or another. You can move forward and appeal, but still re-craft, you know, and work with the City Council. And that's one thing the attorney general -- legal counsel's office is, you know, charged with doing, working with the folks in the City Council to re-craft our gun laws to something that might fit within the bounds of Heller.

SMITHYou know, we've seen examples of that in Maryland and we've seen examples of that in Virginia. And so, you know, working with the City Council is a key part of what the (unintelligible).

MADDENBut you think there should be an appeal?

SMITHYou know, I think that the attorney general should appeal this. But I believe that, you know, it should also be done in concert with re-crafting our gun laws.

FISHEROne of the things that's changed over the years, depending on who's attorney general of the District, is exactly what that role is. So, in other words, will you, as attorney general, want to be the person in charge of the lawyers in all of the different city agencies? What do you see as your role vis-à-vis Congress, which comes up clearly in this gun case and in similar cases where Congress is forever stepping on the authority of the District?

FISHERIs it the roll of the elected attorney general of the District to confront Congress, to sue Congress if necessary to take steps in order to expand or defend the authority of the District?

SMITHI think it is absolutely the roll of the attorney general to defend the autonomy of the District and the autonomy of District laws. I think that, you know, it's -- I would stop short of suing Congress. You know, I think we're seeing a little bit too much of that with the Congress trying to, you know, considering now suing the President. But I do agree with you that, you know, as attorney general, your obligation is to protect the public interests. That is in the charter.

SMITHAnd as attorney general, in protecting the public interest, you need to be able to fight to protect the autonomy of D.C. laws. And we will, you know, we are seeing it and we've -- you know, I expect we will continue to see, you know, Congressional infringements on our autonomy. But the attorney general's job is -- in significant part -- to fight against that and using the significant authority of the office.

FISHERYou mentioned at the top of the show your interest in juvenile justice. And here is Chris, in Washington. Chris, you're on the air.

CHRISHi, Mr. Smith. My name is Chris, from Dupont Circle. I'm wondering what you plan to do to improve the juvenile justice system in the city.

SMITHGreat. Thank you, Chris. My interest in juvenile justice reform is a very personal one. You know, I grew up in D.C. I grew up in some of the roughest neighborhoods in D.C., during some of the most dangerous parts of this city's history. And I saw a lot of kids in my family, a lot of my playmates, kids I grew up with in the neighborhood, struggle and deal with the juvenile justice system, and, you know, and not have the opportunities that I've received because of the focus that my parents placed on me, and, you know, my hard work and ability to get out of the situations.

SMITHBut I, you know, feel that the attorney general's job, as the person charged primarily with prosecuting juvenile offenses in the city, has to be to work and to improve the juvenile justice system to keep kids out of the juvenile justice system. And that means better diversion programs. We used to have something called a youth court in this city. And it was actually quite effective. It lowered recidivism rates to about 25 percent of juvenile offenders were diverted through the youth court.

SMITHAnd the recidivism rates for juveniles coming out of the youth court were about 11 percent, as opposed to 25 percent on the larger average. So I think that working with -- the A.G.'s office is particularly well suited for this. Working across different agencies, youth-serving agencies throughout D.C. government to help put together policies and practices that will help keep kids out of the juvenile justice system to begin with -- as I've said, keep kids in the classroom instead of in the courtroom -- is something that the A.G. has to be charge with. And that's something that's personal to me, just because of where I come from.

FISHERYou mentioned that personal connection. Did you have any experience with family members or friends who were in the juvenile justice system and saw -- what did you see that went wrong in those cases?

SMITHAbsolutely. This is, you know, both in family and with friends. I mean most of the kids that I grew up with -- and, you know, for those who don't know, I, you know, grew up in Ward 8, High Point, right off of Wheeler Road -- very tough neighborhood. A lot of the kids that I grew up with, you know, are locked up, strung out or dead. All right? They didn't have the support structures around them to help them achieve their potential.

SMITHThese are kids who are just as smart as I am, just as capable, and I've gone on to do things. And now I have a debt, I owe something to my community. You know, public service is a calling. So I've seen it in my family. I've seen it in my community. And I'm committed to working to do everything I can as A.G. to help give those kids the opportunities that I've had and help prevent them from ending up in the same place that a lot of the kids I grew up with are.

MADDENAnd do you think the city right now is too tough on juveniles who have been accused or are convicted of crimes, in terms of whether they're -- sort of sentencing aspect of it? Or where -- what is your stand? I mean, what is the city doing wrong that you would fix?

SMITHWell, I think one big thing is that the city does not have enough tools, is not -- has not put together enough programs to help keep kids who are minor offenders and non-violent offenders -- and this is what I mean about, you know, implementing better diversion programs -- from getting into the juvenile justice system to begin with, which, ultimately, often leads to a cycle of recidivism and increasingly severe crimes.

SMITHAnd so what I see as the opportunity for the A.G.'s office -- because the A.G.'s office has such a broad scope and works across so many agencies, many of which have missions that serve our youth -- is to work with them -- I'm talking about the D.C. public schools, you know, I'm talking about social services, I'm talking about health -- to go ahead and make sure that what we're doing is giving kids, you know, the resources that they need and giving communities the resources they need to work with these kids to keep them from getting caught in that cycle.

FISHERYou talk about the tremendous number of kids in the city who end up having some contact with the juvenile justice system. And a source of thousands of those arrests, for many years, has been marijuana. And the -- there have been a number of studies by the American Civil Union, and others, pointing out that there's a tremendous racial disparity in marijuana arrests across the country, including in the District where usage rates among whites and blacks are about equivalent.

FISHERAnd yet the arrest rates for blacks far outweigh those for whites. And that has been an argument used in a number of states around the country as they move toward decriminalization or legalization. Obviously, this is a big issue now in the District, with a move toward decriminalization and various threats on the part of Congress, once again, to reel that back. What -- as attorney general, what would be your position and role in trying to navigate that dispute with Congress and in trying to achieve your juvenile justice goals, in terms of marijuana policy?

SMITHWell, this is a very important issue. And the decriminalization of possession of small amounts of marijuana I think is going to have a very positive impact in our city, as long as we're allowed to implement -- with respect to kids, juveniles out there and helping keep them out of the system. Because what we're seeing is -- and I saw this growing up -- is, you know, seeing kids, you know, getting arrested and going to jail for possessing the same amount of marijuana that you find in middleclass homes and dorm rooms across the country.

SMITHMy job as attorney general is to make sure that justice means the same thing across all eight wards. That justice does not way heavier on the shoulders of kids in Ward 8 than they do in -- with college students in other wards throughout the city or middleclass families or, you know, people in the suburbs. So, you know, I think that the important thing is that we have the autonomy to adopt our own laws and be free of, you know, of Congressional intervention on that.

FISHERThat is Smitty Smith. He is a Democratic candidate for attorney general of the District of Columbia. I'm Marc Fisher of the Washington Post, sitting in for Kojo Nnamdi. And this is "The Politics Hour." Our guest analyst today is Patrick Madden, a WAMU reporter. And you can join our conversation at 1-800-433-8850. Or email us at kojo@wamu.org. Let's go to Jim, in the District. Jim, you're on the air.

JIMHi. My question is what would you -- what role do you see that the attorney general could play in cleaning up the corruption both among our currently elected officials and with the bureaucracy of the District? And I'll take my response -- I'll take your answer off air. Thank you.

SMITHSo I think one of the challenges that the attorney general faces is the structural limitations on the A.G.'s power. This is something that the current attorney general, Irv Nathan, has faced. This is something that I would face as attorney general, which is there is a bifurcation of responsibility in the city on law enforcement, as between the U.S. attorney's office and the attorney general's office.

SMITHSo we have had instances in our city's past -- in our city's, unfortunate, recent past -- where we've had elected officials, you know, stealing from the public coffers and not -- and the attorney general has not had the power, has not had the authority to prosecute because those are adult felonies and they fall under the U.S. attorney's office. I would like to see an attorney general's office that had broader powers, greater ability to enforce our local laws, as against adult felonies.

SMITHHowever, instead I would have to focus on working within the powers that we have. And I think, you know, the current attorney general actually did a laudable job in this respect, in using his authorities in civil court to actually go after recovering funds that had been stolen by corrupt politicians. So I think the A.G.'s office has a role, a definite role.

SMITHOne of the reasons why I'm running for attorney general is because growing up in the city my entire life, you know, and seeing some of these scandals that I think Washingtonians are, quite frankly, sick and tired of, I myself am sick and tired. And I've said, you know what, it's time for me to go ahead and step up to this, because if I'm not ready to go ahead and take it on myself, then who else can be expected to do so?

MADDENAnd, Smitty, one of the big battles this year involving the attorney general's office in D.C. has been this budget autonomy litigation, which is unique in that it really pitted the Council against the mayor. Where do you fall in terms of the budget autonomy legislation -- I mean, litigation? Would you -- do you believe the attorney general's position or do you believe the Council's position?

SMITHI -- well, I side with the Council's position. I would have defended D.C. budget autonomy. I'm a strong defender of D.C. autonomy generally, but also with respect to the D.C. budget. Yeah, I believe that there is an interpretation of the 1973 Home Rule Act that the people of this city have already been granted authority by Congress to amend the -- our budget and to exercise control over our local -- use of our local tax money. And there are former attorney generals and former presidents of the D.C. bar who agree with that interpretation. I would have defended it wholeheartedly.

FISHERI noticed in a comment you made the other day, that -- you said the role of the D.C. attorney general is not an adversarial role. It's a cooperative role. And you were speaking about the relationship with the mayor and the Council. And I wonder when you have a corrupt mayor or a rogue mayor, shouldn't the independent attorney general represent the people's interest, essentially, against that mayor?

SMITHThe number one responsibility of the independent attorney general, the reason why the voters voted to make this an independent position, was so that the attorney general would be able to operate, you know, separate from the mayor and the Council. I believe in supporting the mayor and the Council in, you know, implementing their policies and working with them.

SMITHOne of the, you know, my, you know, absolute roles as attorney general is to do so. However, my number one priority, my number one responsibility is to the people, to the public interests. And that's in the charter. The amendment to the charter that made this an elected position, that made this an independently elected position, also made the first responsibility to the public interests.

SMITHThe mayor and City Council are, you know, made up of publicly elected officials. They have a responsibility to the public interests, as well. But my primary responsibility is, yes, to the public interests. And so I would support that.

MADDENAnd should -- sorry.

FISHERAnd we're -- I've got to move on, but Smitty Smith, Edward "Smitty" Smith, thank you very much for being here with us. And good luck in your race for attorney general of the District of Columbia.

SMITHThank you very much.

FISHERWell, Patrick Madden, we're moving on across the river to Virginia and the attorney general for the commonwealth of Virginia, Mark Herring, is our next guest. And you can join our conversation with Attorney General Herring at 1-800-433-8850. Or email us at Kojo, K-O-J-O -- @wamu.org. And it has been a very busy week in Virginia. And so we're very pleased to have the attorney general with us.

FISHERHe spent eight years in the Virginia Senate, representing Loudoun and Fairfax Counties. He was on the Loudoun Board of Supervisors prior to that. And he's often mentioned as a candidate for governor, but far be it from us to mention such things on "The Politics Hour." Mark Herring, welcome.

ATTORNEY GENERAL MARK HERRINGWell, and Marc and Patrick, it's great to be here. Thanks for inviting me.

FISHERWell, we wanted to have you here because of a number of ongoing issues, but then we were given a shower of news gifts from Virginia this week. And starting off with the ruling by the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals on same-sex marriage. This is something that you stepped out in front of some months ago and sought to have the ban on same-sex marriage overturned. And that has now happened. But you're not having your folks performing marriages, as yet. So there is a further legal work to be done. Is that right?

HERRINGThat's right. The 4th Circuit issued its opinion earlier this week. It was a great decision. I think it's very solid. And real proud that Virginia's leading the way on this issue. You know, one of the reasons why I thought it was so important to change the state's legal position, first of all, of course, are the thousands and thousands of Virginians who have -- are having their constitutionally-protected, fundamental right denied them right now.

HERRINGSo getting this ban overturned will mean so much to them and to their lives. But also because of Virginia's unique history when it comes to civil rights issues and landmark cases. And whether it was on the school desegregation case or the interracial marriage case or gender equality in public higher ed, in all of those Virginia argued on the wrong side of it. The commonwealth I know has moved forward since those landmark cases. And it was important to change the state's legal position to make sure we were on the right side of the law and standing up and protecting people's rights.

FISHERTo get a little philosophical for a moment, talk about the relationship between the shift in public opinion and the shift that you're seeking legally. Would this have been possible, would you have stepped out the way you did, had not public opinion shifted the way it has? What's the chicken and egg relationship there?

HERRINGWell, keep in mind, when I was first inaugurated in mid-January, the question -- we hadn't had this string of legal victories that we've had. And so winning these court cases was far, far from certain. But I was convinced, having reviewed the law, that it was unconstitutional. And, yet, that was not the end of the inquiry for me because as attorney general I also had to wrestle with what's the appropriate response when an attorney general confronts a law that he or she believes is unconstitutional.

HERRINGAnd in this case, I thought it was right and appropriate to change the state's legal position. Now, you also mentioned that there is more legal work to be done. And that's the case. We expect that Clerk McQuigg, from Prince William County, will probably file a petition for a writ to appeal to the Supreme Court. I suspect there'll be a request for a stay. I think that will be granted. And I think there should be a stay if that happens because the Supreme Court has already stepped in in some other cases to issue a stay.

HERRINGI think we'd want to proceed in an orderly way. And I think it's really important to stay involved all the way through to the end. If we have to take it to the Supreme Court to vindicate the rights of Virginians, I'll do it.

MADDENAnd when you ran for this position, when you ran for attorney general, you promised to take politics out of the A.G.'s office. That was the headline of your column in the Times Dispatch. Your term so far, do you think you've kept that promise when you look at the myriad of hot-button issues that you've tackled?

HERRINGYeah, I think the -- maybe a better question is are the actions I've taken grounded in the law? And they absolutely are. When I first took office I had asked my solicitor general to pull together the -- all of the arguments and the authorities on the issue of marriage equality to help analyze the law and help me reach the right legal conclusion. And that's what I've done.

HERRINGThe same with the issue on looking at Virginia's in-state tuition law, as it applies to Dreamers. And I took a look at that. The legislature hadn't spoken and said the in-state tuition law does not apply to Dreamers or it does apply to Dreamers. And we were rapidly coming up to May 1st, which is sort of historically most colleges have a deadline of when students need to accept or decline offers of admission. And they needed to know what the status was.

HERRINGColleges and universities needed to know. The students needed to know. And so I looked at the law and found that they would be eligible for it. So that's really the issue, is are my actions firmly grounded in the law. And they are.

FISHERThat's Mark Herring. He's the attorney general of the commonwealth of Virginia. I'm Marc Fisher from the Washington Post, sitting in for Kojo Nnamdi. You can join our conversation at 1-800-433-8850. And you can also watch today's broadcast, a streaming video on our website, at kojoshow.org.

FISHERAnd, Attorney General Herring, on this question of the role of popular opinion plays on a tough emotional issue like same-sex marriage, Virginians are very divided on this. And you're hearing, I'm sure, from a lot of constituents who don't think you did the right thing here. What role should public opinion play in a decision on -- that's essentially one of morality as well as constitutionality?

HERRINGWell, you're right. Public opinion has shifted significantly over the last few years. Not just in Virginia, but all across the country. And millions of Americans have, sort of, reshaped their views on it. But the legal landscape has changed, as well. There's been a long line of cases where the Supreme Court has said, time and time again, marriage is a fundamental right.

HERRINGAnd what is different is we also have another newer line of cases where the Supreme Court is looking very skeptically on laws that discriminate on the basis of sexual orientation. I think these marriage equality cases represent the intersection of those two and so we have not only changing popular view of marriage for same-sex couples, but also a changing legal landscape.

HERRINGAnd coming out of the Windsor case last summer, I think that was a clear signal that the Supreme Court was headed in the direction of striking these kinds of bans down and I think that's were ultimately this issue is going to have to be decided in the Supreme Court.

FISHERThis morning, we had the resignation of Congressman Eric Cantor as House minority leader. He'd obviously already lost his bid for reelection, but now he's going to be leaving office several months early, in part to try to get his Republican soon successor into office a little bit earlier and win that gentleman some seniority.

FISHERWhat -- it was interesting to hear the governor, the other day, say that the loss of Eric Cantor, despite being from a different party from you and the governor, is actually going to be quite difficult for Virginia and that combined, the loss of Representative Cantor, Congressman Wolf, Congressman Moran, is going to have a tough effect on the state's ability to get federal funds, to take care of military installations in Virginia. How much of a role does the seniority of those combined members of Congress play and how big a blow is it?

HERRINGWell, I think there are probably a number of lessons that we can draw from it. First of all, it's having an immediate effect on Republicans in the general assembly who saw that Eric Cantor's loss and I think are concerned that if they begin to moderate, to try to reach compromise with the governor, say, on Medicaid expansion, that they're gonna get a primary and possibly lose in a primary.

HERRINGSo we're already seeing that effect. I think the governor was right to be concerned about the loss of federal funds in Northern Virginia and Hampton Roads in particular.

HERRINGTo those regions, defense contracting and the military are not only big pieces of our national defense, but a big part of Virginia's economy and with, you know, Congressman Wolf, who's been in Congress a long time, same with Congressman Moran, who's been serving on defense appropriations, those are gonna be significant losses in seniority, coupled with sequestration and other issues. And I think it's going to be really important for the congressional delegation to work together to try to guard against and mitigate some of those losses.

FISHERAnd you mentioned Medicaid expansion. On this issue, you're the top lawyer in Virginia. Do you think Governor Terry McAuliffe can legally and by executive order bring Medicaid expansion to Virginia?

HERRINGWell, first of all, let me say I think the governor has been doing the right thing fighting for Medicaid expansion. It would bring healthcare to 400,000 Virginians who currently can't afford to get it. It would return billions of dollars, I think $2 billion a year to Virginia's economy. It would help strengthen it. So he's doing the right thing fighting for it.

HERRINGNow, what he has said is that we can't get the funding that we would've gotten already. That's lost. But giving where the legislature is right now, he's going to look for ways to expand healthcare using the authority he has. He's asked for the secretary of health to come back with some proposals. We'll have to see what those are. As attorney general, what I'm gonna do is take a look at those and provide good, objective, legal advice and make sure that the actions the governor takes are firmly grounded in the law.

FISHERSo but the answer, then, you're giving right now is that you don't know.

HERRINGThe answer is that I don't know yet what specific proposals will come back from the governor and the secretary of health and I will need to take a look at each one of those to see what authority already exist in order to authorize it.

FISHERLet's hear from Marie in McLean with a question for Virginia Attorney General Mark Herring. Marie, you're on the air.

MARIEYes, hi. Really, I have a comment. I think, like most people I speak to, we're just tired of these same old issues that really are not high on anybody's agenda, I mean, most of the population's agenda, like same-sex marriage. I really don't care if people get married at all, frankly. I don't think the government should be in marriage. I think there should be -- the DOMA should be out of marriage.

MARIEBut I think we have bigger problems. We have Ebola coming into the country, as a possibility. We have a university, our (word?) university, that wants to go private. I know people that are leaving the state so their kids can go to a public university. This is what -- the things I'm hearing. People are paying a lot of money in taxes and the average person isn't seeing any services for the tax dollars that they're paying.

FISHEROkay, let...

MARIEI mean, I don't understand why we're swirling the same dumb ass questions around all the time.

FISHEROkay. Thanks, Marie. Attorney General Herring?

HERRINGWell, I think marriage equality is an important issue for a lot of Virginians. And, you know, I heard from a veteran from the Shenandoah Valley who said he is hoping to marry his partner in Virginia in time for his partner's father, a World War II vet, to see it and witness it. I've heard from a student in Southwest Virginia who was too young to vote on the amendment back in 2006, but he remembers how it made him feel when the amendment was voted on and how it pushed him to hide his identity from his friends and his family and his community.

HERRINGSo I think it is an important issue. Not just to those who are directly affected, but also to friends and family of those who are directly affected. And I think, you know, in-state tuition for Dreamers is an important issue. I heard from not just legislators, not just Dreamers, but the business community about how it's important to tap into all of the human capital we have in Virginia if we're going to have a workforce that is competitive in our global economy.

HERRINGAnd remember, these are students who have over -- you know, this is, for all practical purposes, the state and the country they know. They went to high school here, middle school, probably elementary school. They have overcome language barriers. They have succeeded in high school. They want to go to college and continue their education, begin climbing the ladder of success.

HERRINGIt's an important issue for Virginia. And so is funding for higher ed. And the legislature needs to make sure that they look at the funding issues of our colleges and universities and work with the boards of visitors to try to make sure that we can expand the number of seats that are there.

FISHERYou talked about the undocumented immigrant children and obviously there's an enormous amount of concern across the country now about what to do with those kids, where to put them, whether they should be sent back to the countries that they came from. What do you think is the most sensible way to deal with this flood of minors into the country and into the region?

FISHERAcross the river, Gov. O'Malley was advocating for children to be placed in smaller settings and immediately there was a whole to-do up in Carroll County about a facility there that was being contemplated for use. You had a similar situation with an unused -- I think it was an old college site in Virginia. Are there places in Virginia that are suitable and should Virginia be stepping up as some states have and saying, okay, we'll take some of these children?

HERRINGYeah. I think it certainly points to the larger inability of the Congress and the president to address comprehensive immigration reform. Not just this president, not just this Congress. It's been successive presidents and successive Congresses. And so this is just one more manifestation of that inability to address it. It is a humanitarian crisis and the Congress needs to act to address it.

HERRINGBut it shouldn't act in a way that is gonna take away the DOCA status for those students who have grown up here, were here will before, you know, 2007 in order to quality for that status. Taking that status away, I think, would be the wrong thing to do.

FISHERLet's hear from another side of the marriage issue from Daniel in Arlington. Daniel, you're on the air.

DANIELHey, all. Good afternoon, Attorney General. How are you?

HERRINGGood, thank you.

DANIELI just wanted to say, first, as an aside, thank you so much for your work in the gay marriage case, specifically in not defending the ban. I don't -- can't speak to the last caller, necessarily, but the chances of me wanting to be able to get married being a Virginian are way higher than me getting Ebola so thank you for that. My question is more -- and if you're willing to speculate, feel free.

HERRINGBut what you see the outcome of an appeal to the Supreme Court being, given the resemblance between this case and what happened in California with Prop 8, if you see them just referring the ruling back to the lower court or if you think that there are some differences that may make them want to address it.

HERRINGWell, thank you and I read very recently, I think today, there was an article where Justice Ginsberg said that she didn't think, in an interview with AP, that the Supreme Court would duck the issue if it were presented again. And I think there are some important legal issues that the case in Virginia would resolve if it were the one to be taken. I don't know if it will be the one from Virginia, whether it will be one from Utah, whether it will be a group of cases.

HERRINGBut, for example, there's a couple that has been together for a couple of decades in Norfolk that was denied a marriage license so it would resolve that basic issues. There's also a couple from -- who are lawfully married in California. They have a daughter. They moved to Virginia and that marriage is not being recognized. That creates another set of legal issues. So I think the Virginia case would resolve a number of the legal issues if it were taken up.

FISHERYou mention -- with the caller earlier, Marie mentioned the University of Virginia and the concern that a lot of people have about tuition rates there, about sort of a move toward privatization at the university. And you were critical of your predecessor, Ken Cuccinelli, for the role that he played in getting involved in what was seemingly an academic issue on climate change and challenging the research of University of Virginia professor.

FISHERNow, we have a move afoot at the university to strip some of the powers of the board of visitors or to concentrate that power in the executive committee. What is the proper role of the attorney general regarding the University of Virginia and do you feel a need to step in there and deal with some of their governance issues which seem to have been tearing the university apart in recent years?

HERRINGWell, first of all, the University of Virginia, as a public institution, is an agency of state government and therefore, it is one of the attorney general's clients among all of the other departments, agencies, boards, commissions and public universities of the state. And so we do provide legal advice on a whole range of issues. And higher ed has become -- higher ed law has become extremely complex.

HERRINGYou deal with employment issues. You deal with regulatory issues. You deal with all kinds of issues. And so, one of the things that we do in the course of that is advice on governance issues. I think it's important that decisions are made with a degree of transparency and seeking input of a lot of different parties. So that's kind of where one part of the role is. And I was interested in some of the discussion with your earlier guest about the more broad role of an attorney general, which is serving in the public interest.

HERRINGAnd one of the responsibilities of the attorney general is to be the -- defend and protect the public interest and say, you know, take on some issues and so we're working on a whole host of issues with all of our colleges and universities in Virginia.

FISHERVirginia Attorney General Mark Herring is our guest and this is the Politics Hour. I'm Marc Fisher from The Washington Post and our guest analyst today is Patrick Madden.

MADDENAnd Attorney General, another very politically divisive issue is the hospital construction standards that the general assembly -- the law they passed that would enforce these hospital construction standards on abortion clinics and it's made them very cost prohibitive. I believe a couple have shut down. I believe there's a lawsuit by pro-abortion rights groups challenging these construction standards. As attorney general, would you defend Virginia against this lawsuit?

HERRINGRight now -- and I'll say I was opposed to those regulations. I fought them. I voted against them, spoke out against them. I think they were designed in order to restrict access for women for certain services and limiting access -- women's access to healthcare is wrong and these clinics provide a range of services, including prenatal healthcare, cancer screenings, a whole lot of issues.

HERRINGThe governor has directed that the commissioner of health and the board take another look at the regulations and the comment period is in the process of winding up now. That review's going to go forward. And so what we are analyzing right now is what impact that review will have on the court case so we need to wait and see exactly what happens as a part of that review to see what direction the court case is gonna go.

MADDENDo you think this is an issue, though, that potentially you could decide to not defend this lawsuit or...

HERRINGYou know, again, it's one that we've got to wait and see what the impact of the governor's directive is going to be on the lawsuit.

FISHERWe're going to go to Eric in Manassas. Eric, it's your turn.

ERICHi. I'd just like to second Marie's views. As far as same-sex marriage, as long as the goat's over 18, I don't care. Marry a goat for all I care. You know, (unintelligible) these are just -- the abortion debate, that was settled in 1972. I just -- I don't know. I just feel like our state's just chasing issues that are 40 and 50 years old. I mean, what's the point anymore?

ERICI mean, our economy stinks and I would rather have the governor and possibly the attorney general, if you can do anything about it, job creation. Everything else is just superfluous nonsense. And I'll take my comment, if you have any, off the air.

FISHERAttorney General Herring.

HERRINGWell, you make a good point. And as I said earlier, marriage equality and in-state tuition for Dreamers and some of these other issues are very important to a lot of people. But you raise a couple of good issues that the governor is working on. He's talked a lot about economic development and job creation. He's gone on an overseas trip to direct more investment in Virginia. He's working to expand healthcare. So he is doing, you know, addressing a lot of the issues that the caller is concerned about and rightly concerned about.

FISHERAnd speaking about economic development, we had the opening this week of the Silver Line, the Metro Silver Line. And as someone who is from Loudoun County and represented Loudoun County for a number of years, I would imagine you're a big supporter, not just of this first part of the Silver Line, but especially of the part yet to be built. What's your sense of the impact that that will have on Loudoun?

HERRINGI've been a long-time supporter of extending Metro, not just to Dulles Airport, but into Loudoun County. Back when I was a county supervisor, I worked hard to re-plan some areas in the county that could serve as (word?) and development if rail were to come. A lot of people dismissed it as pie in the sky thinking, but I was convinced one day, you know, there would be a way to make it a reality.

HERRINGWe needed a plan for it. And now, it is a reality. It's great to see the first phase open. I'm looking forward to the second phase and moving on. I think it's gonna really help continue to support the commercial expansion that we've seen in the Dulles corridor.

FISHERAnd as you look at the trial that's been going on in Richmond of the former governor, I mean, what's your sense of it? Is it a sideshow? Are there real issues here regarding governance in the Commonwealth? What affect does this have on how voters see the work that you and others in your positions do?

HERRINGWell, I think, like everybody, it's very disheartening to see that a former governor is in a trial on federal corruption charges. And I think it has badly damaged the public trust and there are things that I've done as attorney general to try to restore that public trust immediately on taking office. I imposed a strict gift ban on myself, my family and everyone in my office.

HERRINGIt's $25, 100 in the aggregate and there's no distinction between tangible or intangible gifts. The legislature took some steps, but not nearly enough and I think there's more that we can and should do.

FISHERWe're gonna have to leave it there as we're running out of time. We should note that the attorney general is not wearing a Rolex watch. Mark Herring, the attorney general of the Commonwealth of Virginia, is our guest and our guest analyst is Patrick Madden. I'm Marc Fisher of The Washington Post. Thanks so much for listening. Bye-bye.