MR. KOJO NNAMDIFrom WAMU 88.5, at American University in Washington, welcome to "The Politics Hour," starring Tom Sherwood. Tom Sherwood is our resident analyst. He's an NBC 4 reporter and a columnist for the Current Newspapers. Tom, this is from the "what did you expect" department.

MR. KOJO NNAMDII, frankly, don't know who was correct when they testified before the council in the wake of the police escorting Charlie Sheen episode, Commander Hilton Burton, who approved it and testified that it was routine policy to escort celebrities, or Chief Cathy Lanier, who testified that it wasn't and apparently showed that celebrities were rejected when she held that position.

MR. KOJO NNAMDIWhat I did expect, because the police, after all, is a paramilitary organization in which you don't publicly disagree with your superiors, is that Commander Burton -- well, how can I say this -- wouldn't be facing a bright future under Chief Lanier.

MR. TOM SHERWOODWell, you know, he has a little history of being critical with her. And, you know, I believe in people speaking out, whether you're in a military organization or not. And now Captain -- he was Commander. I think he's down to Captain now...

NNAMDIYes.

SHERWOOD...two ranks down, was -- you know, he spoke out and said that he had done nothing more than what everyone else had done in allowing these types of escort. Chief Lanier, in her testimony, said, well, the big difference is that when -- you have to get higher up approval. You can do them. There's no set rule on who, but if you ask for one, you have to get higher up approval. And she says they didn't get it.

SHERWOODAnd so she says his criticism of her and all that has nothing to do with the demotion. It was a management decision, and so she did it.

NNAMDIWell, you do believe in speaking up. But did you not expect that he would pay a penalty for that?

SHERWOODWell, I think Hilton Burton knew that going to a council meeting, a public hearing and discussing things like this wouldn't make him, you know, the employee of the week for Chief Lanier. But, you know, he feels strongly about it. And so, I mean, you have to -- sometimes people have to accept it, though.

NNAMDICourt case to follow, right?

SHERWOODWell, he'll challenge. He'll challenge, but, you know, he feels like he's doing right. And that's what people should do.

NNAMDIThe Examiner newspaper reports that the city is organizing a youth engagement program tonight for teens who gather in Chinatown every weekend. Some business owners fear the event will draw more young people to the area and unleash destructive forces similar to what's going on in London. I don't think that's going to happen.

SHERWOODYou know, Mr. Cloppet, (sp?) who wrote that story, is a good reporter. And all he did was quote one business person, owner of a restaurant down there, saying they feared there would be London-like riots. And the mayor says -- and other than the mayor's people, who didn't -- I mean, there's some doubt that the mayor's people prepared for this.

SHERWOODYou know, there's been a crowd problem around Gallery Place and Verizon Center, just 'cause a lot of young people go there and hang out. They sit on the steps and (unintelligible) gallery.

NNAMDIAnd they've tried to solve it by playing sounds over speakers that you and I cannot hear.

SHERWOODRight, some annoying things by the Metro, and they stopped that.

NNAMDIThe young people were just driving (word?) people crazy.

SHERWOODAnd so the mayor's people said, well, if the young people are there, let's put something down there, a pre-back to school thing, have a little music, encourage people to play some music, close the road, G Street between Seventh and Ninth. And some -- people just didn't feel like they were given enough notice about it. They probably wouldn't have liked it anyway. But let's see how it plays out tonight there.

SHERWOODI think the mayor's office has ramped up the idea of having more recreation roving leaders there tonight. There will be, obviously, some police officers. This is an all-hands-on-deck weekend. So there will be a lot of officers about, and I just hope the thing goes well. I don't think we should presume that just 'cause there are young people gathered that there's going to be violence.

SHERWOODAnd that was kind of the irritation with the Examiner article, is that was the tone of the article. And it was, I think it was accurately reported by Cloppet, that that was the tone of the people he talked to.

NNAMDIAnd you wrote in your column in the Current Newspapers this week about Cheryl Ferrara, a former Deputy Assistant Inspector General who was sentenced for falsifying residency documents and bank accounts, in order to get her friend hired in her office, and for personally spending about $20,000 in funds from the National Association of Inspectors General, for which she was treasurer.

NNAMDIShe got a year's probation and a suspended sentence of 180 days, fined $1,000, ordered to perform 100 hours of community service, lost her job, and is no longer treasurer of the Association. Why, pray tell, did you reference this story?

SHERWOODYou know, as I say in this column, I get a lot of press releases from the U.S. Attorney's office, just about the routine wash of people who are either found guilty or plead guilty. You don't get many press releases when they are found not guilty.

SHERWOODBut in any event, I thought this was instructive because I wanted to point it out -- in this ethics kind of storm clouds that are hanging over the city, I wanted to point out that the U.S. -- there is some fear that the U.S. Attorney will turn a blind eye to Councilmember Thomas, Council Chairman Kwame Brown, Mayor Gray and the Sulaimon thing, and not act on any of this. It'll all just be allowed to waste away.

SHERWOODAnd I just wanted to point out that the U.S. Attorney's office has routinely taken strong actions against public federal and local workers for wrongdoing. And I don't think people should hope that this U.S. Attorney is just going to ignore Mr. Thomas and Mr. Brown and Mayor Gray.

NNAMDINot likely to happen. It's "The Politics Hour." Tom Sherwood is our resident analyst. He's an NBC 4 reporter and a columnist for the Current Newspapers. Joining us now in studio is Yvette Alexander. She's a member of the D.C. Council, a Democrat representing Ward 7. She is the chair of the Council's Committee on Public Services and Consumer Affairs. Councilmember Alexander, good to see you. Thank you for joining us.

REP. YVETTE ALEXANDERIt's great to be here, Kojo and Tom.

NNAMDIThe Office of Campaign Finance last week cleared you of improperly spending money for constituent services on yourself, but did say that you spent money from that account for political purposes, including a robocall. You have said this is a good time for you to start to clear these things up. Well, maybe you can start now. Tell us about the robocall.

ALEXANDERDefinitely. Well, first and foremost, I'm really pleased with the outcome of the investigation. There was never any wrongdoing on my part or my staff's part. So it's good to get that over with. I was tired of explaining to my constituents that I did nothing wrong. So that's a relief. The -- the robocall, not the Kojo call. The robocall...

NNAMDISame thing.

ALEXANDER...stemmed from community events. The robocalls are used in political campaigns, but they're also a mechanism to get the word out for community events. So that explanation -- there is a process that you have a 15 day appeal to the Campaign Finance ruling. So that robocall was for a community event, a Ward 7 appreciation day in the Ward, and that got the message out to a large number of my constituents.

ALEXANDERSo that will be resolved in the appeal process.

NNAMDIIf you'd like to join this conversation, call us at 800-433-8850, or go to our website, kojoshow.org, and join the conversation there. It is my understanding that the constituent services account is for the purpose of helping out members of your constituency in the event of emergencies, like maybe medical bills or can't afford to pay the rent on a particular occasion.

NNAMDIHow do you see sending out a robocall to attend an event as a part of constituent services?

ALEXANDERAnything that involves my constituents, I consider constituent services. And the fund can be utilized for that -- anything for the good of our community. Yeah, it runs the gamut from helping persons with their utility expenses, rental expenses, giving them a helping hand, but I also support community efforts. My leadership council meeting, my constituent services office, community events, all of this is for the good and well being of our community.

ALEXANDERSo it runs the gamut. It covers a large array of things.

NNAMDIThe Washington Post has written an editorial, suggesting that that kind of event needs to be wiped out of the whole notion of constituent services. But I suspect that Tom Sherwood has a question along that line.

SHERWOODWell, I want to go back to the robocall because the investigation did basically clear you of all the major things. But the minor things are still important, as I'm sure you agree. What did the robocall say? I looked in vain to see. What did this robocall say? Was it your voice inviting people to a community event?

ALEXANDERYeah, it was my voice, in essence, inviting everyone to come out to a Ward 7 appreciation day that was sponsored by myself and the Ward.

SHERWOODAnd did this come during a political campaign?

ALEXANDERNo. No, it did not.

SHERWOODAnd it was $300.

ALEXANDERYes. And if you look at the price, that was relatively cheaper than robocalls are for campaign use. So it didn't go out to that large amount of persons. And, I think, Campaign Finance realizes that.

SHERWOODThe larger issue, I thought, was the council members -- it used to be that any councilmember could raise $40,000 for constituent service. And in some -- I think there can be a question of whether council members should be individually pay people's heating bills and other kinds of water bills and things. But then the council -- I was there the day you guys raised it to $80,0000. And there was some discussion about raising it even more.

SHERWOODAnd I think some of you have gotten nervous about that. And so you do have -- but I don't understand why there can't be better reporting. This report said you failed to report 19 expenditures from the Constituent Service Fund. What was your answer to that?

ALEXANDERAnd that, Tom, actually, was a mistake. It's actually 9...

SHERWOODA mistake by your group?

ALEXANDEROn Campaign Finance, and our part as well. We found out there were nine checks, actually, that had gone unreported. And, mind you, this was over a span of four years. So everyone's entitled to a mistake. And that can be remedied through an amended report. The others were miscategorized. And that is a problem with Campaign Finance, and I think that's something that I brought up in my interview with the investigation.

ALEXANDERWe need to have a better mechanism for qualifying what we actually use the services for.

SHERWOODIt would be great, I think, if we just had a simple form that people, both in campaign moneys and all of that -- but given your ethics issues -- we'll just make that as a general thing -- it pales in comparison to what Councilmember Tommy Thomas, a friend of yours, is facing. $300,000 he's agreed to pay back. You gave one of the best quotes in response to that. You said, "I wouldn't pay back $300,000 if I didn't take the money."

SHERWOODThat said a lot more than I think you intended it to say.

ALEXANDERThat was on Twitter, wasn't it?

SHERWOODYeah, Council Chairman Kwame Brown is facing questions about $300,000 that was city money. This is -- Chairman's facing $300,000 in questionable expenses and failed to report moneys in his campaign. And, of course, Mayor Gray, who lives in Ward 7, is facing issues about whether or not his campaign improperly funded Sulaimon Brown, the minor candidate who spent all his time attacking Fenty.

SHERWOODWhat about the ethics cloud over the city government, and particularly the Council? What is your feeling about how bad that is and how urgent it is for you guys to fix it?

ALEXANDERRight. Right. Well, first and foremost, and -- as far as ethics goes, I'm a big supporter of ethics. And if we can strengthen our ethics, which people view are pretty weak right now, I'm in full support of that. I think that everything is on an individual basis. And when I mentioned, I wouldn't have done that, that was a statement that I wouldn't have done that. So I made that choice myself.

ALEXANDERI think it's personal. Whatever reasons that Councilmember Thomas chose to do that are solely on him. And I think it's important for due process. But I think what is important for me to stress about ethics, and as far as the Council is concerned, we can't be so reactive.

ALEXANDERBecause what it seems like is that, now -- you know, when people have questions about things, ethics can cause detriment to the citizens of the District of Columbia because, now, I'm hearing all of a sudden, you know, we wiped out earmarks, which really affected my community greatly. Now, they're talking about maybe we need to eliminate constituent funds, you know. So it's really hurting us in terms of ethics.

ALEXANDERI think the Council, right now, has a clear ethics -- has clear ethics guidelines and procedures in place. And I think if we adhere to it, it wouldn't be a problem.

NNAMDIHow about if, instead of eliminating constituent funds, the Council passed regulations that prohibited constituent funds being provided from the same people who are making donations to campaigns, from the same people who are bringing business before the city and before your committee?

ALEXANDERYou know, that's a question of -- we all know each other in the District of Columbia. We're a small place. There are two degrees of separation in the District of Columbia, so it may just turn out that you're going to know someone in some way, shape, or form, whether it be contracts, whether it be campaign contributions, whether it be a job. I mean, we all know each other in the District. So where do we draw the line? I say no.

NNAMDIWell, I'm glad you brought that up because you were represented in this investigation by David Wilmot, a lawyer who also has a lobbying practice with a lot of business before the city. He represents everyone from Wal-Mart to Comcast. You talked about the fact that you've known him since you were a child, that your father played tennis with him. And, full disclosure here, I have known David Wilmot for years. We have socialized together.

NNAMDISimilarly, Fred Cooke, who seems to represent everybody else on the city council, who is in trouble, and you talked about two degrees of separation. And I'm wondering, how do you make that separation between people who you consider trustworthy, personal friends, if those people happen to have business before the city, business before your committee, and how it looks when somebody, who is a major lobbyist before the City Council, ends up representing you? How do you make that judgment?

ALEXANDERWell, you know, I mean, it's an individual choice. And as I said, we all know one another, so it's just hard. It's a hard decision to make. Then if we go outside of the District of Columbia, God forbid, we'll be criticized for that as well. So, I mean, I think you just have to exercise your judgment. And when people want to be critical, let's face it, you know, they're going to find something wrong if that's what their mission is to do, so...

SHERWOODThe Post had the story today about the DC Children and Youth Investment Trust Corporation and about how you, among others, had sought money through various ways to get things done. It doesn't really make a damning case in your situation. It says you got a $387,000 grant for the Fort Dupont -- is it the Fort Dupont ice rink?

ALEXANDERRight, the ice arena.

SHERWOODAnd the worst thing...

NNAMDIThey actually have a feature on this...

SHERWOODAnd the worst thing that connected to you is you got $550 in campaign contributions during 2007 and '08, pretty small sum overall. But, I think, what the issue is, it's across the board. There's not enough accounting, clear accounting of money, that you guys use this investment trust company to get things done, that -- and the reports are not filled out.

SHERWOODThe campaign reports are not filled out fully as to who gave the money and who they are and how, all of that. So I do think the better reporting is really necessary, so we all know who you're talking to, who you're, you know -- who you're swimming with in the stream.

ALEXANDERYeah, and I think there are grounds for that. The Trust -- in this instance, the Trust has two roles. When we did earmarks, which have now been eliminated, which I'm going to fight to try to get those back in place -- but the Trust had two roles. They were the fiduciary for the earmarks that we awarded to specific groups. And they also have their own grant funding authority.

ALEXANDERSo they have money, aside from what the District gives them, to award other grants, you know, competitively. So they have two functions.

SHERWOODBut do you agree that the -- do you think the bad image now of the Council, and some degree the mayor, is warranted? Do you think it's overplayed? Is it about right? It just seems across the city. And I was at a shopping -- up on far Capitol Hill in a grocery store, and this gentleman I don't know came up to me. He just wanted to complain about the Council, saying, why are they allowing themselves to wallow in the mud so much?

ALEXANDERYou know, I think it's based on opinion. I've heard some great positive things. And I've also heard, you know, why is there so much -- it seems like there's almost an attack, you know, on certain members of the Council. So people look at it both ways...

SHERWOODRacial attacks?

ALEXANDERNo, not...

SHERWOODI mean, I've heard complaints that only the African Americans, you know, are under attack. Is that a factor?

ALEXANDERI mean, it's still -- I mean, I still feel some friction...

SHERWOODYou don't think that.

ALEXANDERNo, I don't think that. But I do feel that there's still some friction with the Gray supporters and the Fenty supporters in the city. This last campaign, I saw the greatest division that I've ever seen in the city. And I think people are still holding that division. I think that Mayor Gray is doing a great job in trying to bring the city together under his one city concept. And I think people need to buy in. But right is right, and wrong is wrong.

ALEXANDERAnd I think we do need to get to the bottom of all of these investigations, and we need to move on with the city's business.

NNAMDIIs there a sentiment on the Council -- because you seem to be hinting at that -- is there a sentiment on the Council, and among supporters of council members, that there is just too much scrutiny on every little tidbit of Council affairs that are going on? Because Tom and I would say such scrutiny is entirely appropriate.

ALEXANDERYeah, I think it's appropriate. But, I mean, it seems like it's a climate of, you know, look at some of the great things that we're doing. Don't just focus on...

NNAMDIWe'll get to that in a second.

ALEXANDER...on the questionable things.

NNAMDIAll one of them.

ALEXANDERBut there are a lot of great things going on, especially in Ward 7, but throughout the city. So, I think, we need to focus on that.

SHERWOODWell, it's -- I have to say, if I can just speak for the...

ALEXANDERAnd the press is responsible for doing that.

SHERWOODWell, I will speak for the media on this 'cause I feel strongly about this 'cause I like, personally, Harry Thomas, Tommy Thomas. I knew his dad. I know his mother. I know that Harry Thomas has spoken up any number of times and promoted youth sports activities, but he has not yet explained the $300,000 that he now is paying back.

ALEXANDERRight. And he has an obligation to explain that...

SHERWOODAnd so whatever good things he did, had he taken 10 kids from the inner city to Pebble Beach, Calif., let them see a golf course and have bigger dreams for their own lives, and he played a round of golf there, no one would have given a damn about that. But the fact that he went out and played golf at Pebble Beach and had a grand time on money that was intended for kids, it seems, to me, indefensible, whether it's illegal or not.

SHERWOODAnd then what I don't hear from the council members is that. I mean, if I were a councilmember, I'd put my arm around him and say, Harry, I love you like a brother, but what this you've done is wrong. And I haven't heard one councilmember really say -- I mean, a couple of people have called for him to resign. But, I just wonder, where is the moral outrage?

NNAMDIYou're too collegial.

ALEXANDERRight. No, the moral outrage is...

SHERWOODI mean, have you told him in private what I just -- something like what I -- have you, like, knocked him around a little?

ALEXANDERNo, I have not. I mean, personally, he is a friend. And we are -- you know, he has a family. He has his issues to deal with. Personally, what I said to him is that I'm looking forward to the U.S. Attorney's investigation being over, due process taking place.

SHERWOODBut that's the criminal aspect of it. I'm talking about the court of public opinion. You as a leader of the city can say, if this is true, this is an outrage.

ALEXANDERWell, I read the report, and I'm still waiting for an explanation, too.

SHERWOODOkay.

ALEXANDERSo, I guess, he's making the decision as to when he's going to provide that explanation.

NNAMDIWe're opening up the phones. We'll start with Andy in Mt. Pleasant. Andy, you are on the air. Go ahead, please.

ANDYAll right. Councilwoman Alexander, I liked what you said about right is right, and wrong is wrong. And I really have a question, not so much about this recent controversy over you, but I've heard -- maybe this is wrong -- that Wal-Mart has contributed a significant amount of money to your constituent services office and that -- I sort of get the feeling that there are people working with you, or for you, that are partly funded by Wal-Mart.

ANDYMaybe this is not true, but it seems to me this is -- I mean, they provide great low prices. They're a union-busting company. They're one of the biggest companies in the world. They have a reputation for destroying small businesses wherever they go, and...

NNAMDIOkay, Andy, allow me to have Councilmember Alexander respond.

ALEXANDERThank you. Thank you, Andy from Mt. Pleasant. Good afternoon. First and foremost, as far as contributions are concerned, there's a cap to what any one entity can give anyone. I'm not familiar...

SHERWOOD$400, I think, is the max.

ALEXANDERRight. And I'm not familiar that Wal-Mart has contributed to me at this time. Wal-Mart had, at one point, hired two residents, I believe, from each ward, in terms of lobbying on their behalf. What I'm stressing with Wal-Mart is, as far as Ward 7 is concerned, they potentially are going to have maybe two locations in Ward 7, is that they have fair wages and hire our residents, District residents and Ward 7 residents.

ALEXANDERAnd the mayor -- I'm familiar with the mayor also working on citywide community benefits across the board. So we don't want them in if they're not benefiting the residents of the District of Columbia and our city.

NNAMDIAndy, word to the wise, if you hear a rumor, don't start off by asking the question and saying, maybe this is not true. Assume that it's true.

NNAMDICouncilmember Alexander...

SHERWOODHe would never be a reporter.

ALEXANDERAssume it's not true. Andy, it's probably not.

NNAMDICouncilmember Alexander, Andy wanted to know, apparently, were any of your staff members paid by Wal-Mart?

ALEXANDERNo. My staff members are paid through the Council of the District of Columbia.

SHERWOODI went to the...

NNAMDIThank you very much for your call.

SHERWOODI went into the Wal-Mart and asked them if they're going to spend $3 million over three years to train 2,000 city citizens, District residents, citizens, in retail service for jobs. So that's a good thing. But -- and the mayor said he's working on this community benefits agreement with Wal-Mart to do -- but several community groups, Rescue D.C., I think, is...

ALEXANDERRespect D.C.

SHERWOODI'm sorry. Well, maybe you should change it to rescue. Respect D.C., has, like, 15 different organizations that feel like they have not been invited in, that they have ideas for employment. They have ideas for what things Wal-Mart could do, but they're being shut out of the conversation. Do you think the mayor's reaching out enough to get people involved, so that if and when Wal-Mart does come in, that people largely will be satisfied, if not everyone?

ALEXANDERYeah, I think the mayor is really involved, along with the deputy mayor of economic development. And I can tell you, each ward councilmember -- not only the wards where Wal-Mart is potentially going, but all the at-large members as well -- are really fighting for the residents of the District of Columbia. We had long talks with them at the retail convention out in Las Vegas, so, definitely, that's an issue at hand.

SHERWOODWal-Mart says -- the District people with credit cards in the District spent $42 million in the suburbs last year. I went to Alexandria yesterday and spoke to District citizens who were shopping at Wal-Mart in Alexandria. I had to ride on I-395. It was horrible coming back.

NNAMDIWhy did you have to include that part?

SHERWOODWell, I just want to make it clear -- I was letting people know that I was out there, (word?) that horrible Mark Center building. I can't believe it looks like a prison.

ALEXANDERI think it's a great thing, too, because for the retail that we currently have, like some of the larger chains that are currently in the District, I think it's going to work good for all the residents, that they're going to have to step up their game.

SHERWOODYou don't think it's going to kill the little smaller mom and pops?

ALEXANDERNo, I think….

NNAMDIWe got an email from Jonathon, who said, "I'm very concerned about the probability that Mayor Gray is in effect selling out D.C. to a big-box store that has a reputation for destroying mom and pop stores in D.C. Across the District, some small businesses are already struggling to hang on. If these businesses fold, there will be dozens of empty storefronts."

NNAMDII do have to say that there are some residents in the community in which I live, Ward 4, in the middle of this debate who said, do you really think that these liquor stores and carry-outs are what we really want here on this corner? But that's another story. What do you say?

ALEXANDERWhat I say -- I can only speak for Ward 7, and there is a great desert where the Wal-Mart is potentially going in Ward 7, at the far end of East Capitol Street, Northeast.

SHERWOOD58th, 58th and East -- I was there yesterday.

ALEXANDERRight. There are no restaurants, no nothing, no retail, so our residents are elated about it. It's going to bring jobs. It's going to bring more retail to sustain that area, so I'm excited about it.

SHERWOODOne less reason to go to Pentagon City and send all your tax dollars to Richmond.

ALEXANDERExactly, exactly.

NNAMDIThe man seems to hate Virginia.

SHERWOODI don't hate Virginia. It's just I won't -- you know, they get all of our money by the workers who don't pay taxes here. So I'm just trying to get a little retail money for the city.

NNAMDIHe's our resident analyst, Tom Sherwood.

ALEXANDERAnd Wal-Mart is great, but I'd love to talk about Ward 7 even further. There's so much great stuff happening.

NNAMDIWe're going to be talking about stuff in Ward 7 when we have that minute left in the broadcast. Here is Ralph in Southeast Washington. Ralph, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

RALPHYeah, thank you for taking my call, Kojo. Good afternoon, Councilmember Alexander.

ALEXANDERGood afternoon.

RALPHI know you have oversight responsibilities for our local public utility company, Pepco. And, most recently, they've announced a desire to raise our rates in the District of Columbia by $42-plus million. I'd like to get your perspective as to whether or not they deserve a dime for the piss poor service we're getting.

RALPHAnd also, I most recently read an article in the Washington Business Journal where you conveyed some concerns that Pepco indicated they had -- about Mayor Gray's nominee to the Public Service Commission -- former people's counsel Elizabeth Noel. So I'd like to get your comments on the rate increase, and why you saw the need to convey Pepco's concerns about Ms. Noel's nomination to the Public Service Commission.

RALPHAnd I will take my call offline. Thanks.

NNAMDIBattling Betty Noel. Go ahead.

ALEXANDEROkay. Yeah, great questions. First and foremost, yeah, a rate increase, to me, at this time is definitely out of the question until we get the reliability up to standard, where Pepco needs to be. The Elizabeth Noel question -- and I am not an advocate or enemy of Pepco. I do have oversight over the utilities, but Elizabeth Noel -- there are a lot of cases still open on the docket right now.

ALEXANDERSo it's not a question of whether I approve or oppose Ms. Noel to serve on the commission. It's just that -- will she be affective on the commission? So that's a concern that I have. Will she have to recuse herself from over 90 percent of the open cases with the Public Service Commission?

NNAMDIThe backdrop for all of this is that you're up for re-election next year. A few people have already thrown their names into the ring to challenge your run, Moten of Peaceoholics. The son of former Ward 7 councilmember, Kevin Chavous put his name out there this week. This is the time. What is going to be your case for keeping your seat?

NNAMDITell us about the good things you've been doing for Ward 7 constituents. What issues do you expect will define this campaign?

ALEXANDERThe great thing -- well, first and foremost, Kojo, let me explain to you that I am the only councilmember that has really had the privilege of lobbying for, and obtaining and making sure that it got through, $350 million worth of capital projects in Ward 7. And let me tell you, things were down the pipeline, so I wasn't solely responsible for bringing it.

ALEXANDERBut I feel I'm solely responsible over the last four years, to make sure it was in the budget, it was in the pipeline, and it got done.

NNAMDI$350 million in capital projects.

ALEXANDERYeah, I'm talking about HD Woodson, Benning and Anacostia libraries, Deanwood Recreation Center. And there are more to come. And that is...

SHERWOODWhat about the United Health Care Center? Is that in Ward 7? Is that a (unintelligible) on Southern Avenue.

ALEXANDERNo, that's Ward 8...

SHERWOODOkay, then I won't ask you about that.

ALEXANDER...United Medical Center, yeah.

SHERWOODThat's important. It's on our side of the river.

ALEXANDERBut, you know, and I've been engaged with the community.

NNAMDISome people know these things.

ALEXANDERI'm always around. I engage the leadership in the community. I'm at every civic association, every ANC, responding to constituent concerns. I'm just out there. I'm born and raised in Ward 7. I'm committed to Ward 7. I am Ward 7. So, I mean, if someone wants to step up, come right ahead. It's a democracy. But I've been there.

NNAMDISpeaking of Ward 7, here is Carol in Washington, D.C., who, I think, is a resident of Ward 7, correct, Carol?

CAROLYes. Yes, I am, all my life.

NNAMDIGo right ahead, please.

SHERWOODNot yet.

CAROLAnd I just -- this is really a philosophical observation that I have for Councilmember Alexander. I believe that there were lessons to be learned from Adrian Fenty. I think she was correct -- I think you are correct that there is a division still in this city between the Mayor Gray supporters and the former Mayor Fenty supporters.

CAROLAnd I think the biggest division is between people who think the Council should kind of move along the way it's been moving, kind of represent us in kind of a political setting. And those who believe that the Council really shouldn't -- you guys shouldn't act like politicians. You guys should act like community activists because that's what Adrian Fenty was. He went and knocked on doors.

CAROLI had more contact with Adrian Fenty when he was running for mayor than I've had with Councilmember Alexander. And I've lived in Ward 7 all my life. I remember Mayor Gray coming and campaigning against Chavous in my neighborhood, and it was ugly. But community activism, I don't -- I'm going to be honest...

NNAMDIAllow me to have Councilmember Yvette Alexander respond.

ALEXANDERYou know, the way I respond when people say that they haven't seen me, which is very hard to do, Carol, because I've been in every area in Ward 7, but it's easier for me -- for you to come to me than me to come to you. So if you come to your community meeting, if you're engaged, if you come to a Ward 7 event, you'll be sure to see me.

ALEXANDERIf you come to a graduation, if you visit a recreation center, if you visit one of our school buildings, I am there, Carol. So I welcome you, and you can access me anytime. So you can reach out to me. What community do you live in?

CAROLI live in Hillcrest Heights, and I'm not talking about just showing up and being there. I'm talking about there are issues that are there in our community. And I'm talking about being a community activist...

NNAMDIYou want to see Yvette Alexander as a community activist. That's what you were before you became a councilmember, weren't you?

ALEXANDERExactly. And nothing has changed. So Carol, I look forward to working with you.

SHERWOODI wish we had time to talk about Skyland Shopping Center.

NNAMDIWe don't have time to talk about Skyland because our producers have got this new technique where they bring the upcoming guest into the studio, in order to warn us that the time for the current guest is over.

SHERWOODOkay, maybe another time for that.

NNAMDIOn another occasion. Yvette Alexander, thank you so much for joining us.

ALEXANDERThanks for having me, Kojo and Tom.

NNAMDITom Sherwood has, in fact, invited you back for talking about Skyland.

ALEXANDERWe can have the economic development talk. I'd love that.

NNAMDIYvette Alexander's a Democrat representing Ward 7 and chair of the Council's committee and Public Services and Consumer Affairs Committee head. Thank you so much for joining us.

ALEXANDERThank you.

NNAMDIYou're listening to "The Politics Hour," starring Tom Sherwood. He's our resident analyst. He's an NBC 4 reporter and a columnist for the Current Newspapers. Before we get to our next guest, let's talk with Jim in Washington, D.C. Jim, you're on the air. You have a comment for Tom Sherwood?

JIMYes, I do. Tom, I -- first of all, I just want to say how much I respect Tom and his work and his belief and commitment to the city. I run a non-profit corporation. I just want to respond to the question about the perceptions because, I think, there's enough kind of blame to go around. And one of the blames has to do -- the negative perception of D.C. has to do with the media.

JIMTom came out to one of our groundbreakings, grand openings, the other day on Clifton Street. And I -- we were -- when we completed an affordable housing home ownership project -- great, great story in Columbia Heights affordable housing in a gentrified neighborhood. I thought Tom was coming to cover us. But Jim Graham was speaking, and his superiors had sent him to cover Jim about the taxi cab controversy.

JIMAnd I asked Tom afterwards what it would take for us to get more coverage of the positive things that are going on, you know, that the city is actually doing. And Tom advised me to go and get 500 people and lay down in Pennsylvania Avenue and create a controversy, and that might start something. So I think there's a balance that needs to happen. And it's unbalanced because of sensationalism and negativism that feeds on itself...

NNAMDIWell, Jim, before Tom responds, allow me to say that we in the news media and the general population expect government to work. It is why we elect people. It is why people are appointed, so we are not generally in the business of reporting that things are working as they are supposed to. We are in the business of news, which is things that you did not expect to happen, such as things not working well. Now, here's Tom Sherwood.

SHERWOODWell, I appreciate -- Jim, I was there, and it was a great thing. I looked at some of the apartments and even toured some of them while I was waiting for Jim Graham to come out, so I could hit him with the taxi cab issues. And in my story that day, I, in fact, used the setting of dedicating the new homes as the opening of my story, which put a little positive thing in before I got to the issue of why I was there. But you're right.

SHERWOODI always tell people who ask me this and when I give speeches, I say there are, like, 700 planes that take off and land at National Airport every day. We're only interested in the one that doesn't.

NNAMDIYou give speeches?

SHERWOODI give talks all the time, and not for money, either.

NNAMDINobody ever asks me to speak.

SHERWOODBut that's -- so the nature of news is not nice. And, unfortunately, we expect people who run non-profit housing organizations to do good jobs. We expect council members not to take money from the city coffers and do it -- spending on golf trips to Pebble Beach and Las Vegas. We expect people to do their jobs, and for that, you don't get a lot of news coverage. We certainly will get it if you stray.

NNAMDIJim, thank you very much for your call. People call on you to give speeches? Joining us now...

SHERWOODYes. I explain what you've said previously.

NNAMDIJoining us now in studio is Jim Rosapepe. He is a member of the Maryland Senate. He's a Democrat who represents the state's 21st district, which includes parts of Prince George's County. Sen. Rosapepe, thank you so much for joining us.

SEN. JAMES ROSAPEPEGood to be with you.

NNAMDIA week ago, the ratings agency Standard & Poor's downgraded the federal government's credit to AA+. You've been talking for several weeks about how Maryland's credit, which has been AAA for 50 years, is related to the credit of the federal government. What are your concerns now that one of the rating agencies has lowered the boom on the Feds?

ROSAPEPEWell the good news is that S&P reiterated this week that they are not taking down Maryland's credit rating, despite the federal downgrade. And obviously, Fitch's and Moody's have not downgraded the federal government, let alone the state government. So it's, so far, so good.

ROSAPEPEThe concern is that a federal downgrade could lead to state and local government downgrades, even if the state governments, as in the case of Maryland, are very fiscally responsible, as S&P said in July, on their last credit rating, where they talked about the prudential management of the fiscal situation in Maryland. So it's a concern, but, so far, so good.

SHERWOODWe've heard the same thing from Nat Gandhi in the District of Columbia and in the state of Virginia, and in fact, at the national conference state legislature last week -- I think you went, didn't you?

ROSAPEPEI was there.

SHERWOODIt's a common concern that the national/international turmoil in the markets can roll downhill and affect the states. But what is your take after this week of the stock market, the gyrations of the stock market? Should people be more confident that this is a temporary patch that we're getting through? Are we truly going towards another recession? Of all the things you've said and seen and done, what's your take on it?

ROSAPEPEI'm very concerned. I mean, I think it's Prof. Joe Stiglitz who's put it best. Don't worry about a second recession. Worry about the fact that we're in the same downturn and contractions that started three years ago. We're used to recessions that are six months, 18 months. That was the history of the post-war period. Those did not come out of financial crises.

ROSAPEPEThe history around the world is financial crises tend to lead to much longer-term fiscal contractions because people, companies, individuals, governments are too leveraged. And it takes a long time to deleverage. So I think this is going to go on for some period of time.

SHERWOODAnd I think I ought to be clear. The reason you worry about the bond ratings not being AAA or AA or AA+, or whatever they are, is because the lower the rating, the higher the interest rates you have to pay for borrowing costs, right? And that adds millions to the state budget.

ROSAPEPEAbsolutely. That definitely is a concern. I think there's also a concern more generally about the image it presents of the state to people outside the state. The fact of the matter is that having a AAA bond rating for 50 years has sent a message about Maryland that's a good message. Now, the truth is that, even if S&P were to downgrade Maryland under their rating system, Maryland is still going to be fiscally responsible.

ROSAPEPEWe're still going to be a AAA state in reality, even if not on their rating system. Frankly, what I'm more worried about now is the real economy and the potential for budget cuts at the federal level that end up targeting -- whether it's cyber security or the National Institute of Health or agriculture research that are very big parts of the Maryland economy.

SHERWOODAre you -- can I mention Chris Van Hollen, the member of Congress from Montgomery County who's on the...

NNAMDIHe's going to be on the super committee.

SHERWOODThe super 12.

ROSAPEPEThat's a big deal. God bless Nancy Pelosi for putting him on it.

NNAMDIFor those of our listeners who are not aware of it, Maryland Congressman Chris Van Hollen is one of the members of Congress who has been appointed to what's being called the super committee, that will be responsible for reducing the deficit.

SHERWOODBefore Thanksgiving.

ROSAPEPEExactly.

SHERWOODThat's not very long.

ROSAPEPEIt isn't. That's why I've got to say, thank God for Nancy Pelosi and Steny Hoyer putting Chris Van Hollen on the super committee because not only is he very smart and very progressive and very thoughtful, he's also from Maryland. And we served together in the legislature.

ROSAPEPEHe really understands that the kinds of public investments that President Obama wants to protect, that the Democratic leadership in the House and the Senate want to protect, are also important for protecting Maryland's economy. So having Chris Van Hollen there is great news for the state of Maryland.

NNAMDIOur guest is Sen. Jim Rosapepe. He is a member -- a Democrat who represents the 21st district in the Maryland Senate. That district includes parts of Prince George's County. If you have questions or comments for Sen. Rosapepe, call us at 800-433-8850, send us a tweet @kojoshow, email to kojo@wamu.org. Or you can simply go to our website, kojoshow.org. Ask a question or make a comment there. You have some international experience.

NNAMDIYou were born in Rome, Italy. You served as ambassador to Romania. And you wrote that you learned about the inherent irrationality of markets while you were ambassador to Romania. What did you see there? And what lessons does the federal government and states alike can take from those experiences?

ROSAPEPEWell I appreciate that. And I'm also in the international investing business in my day job. One of the things that's hard to keep track of, if you're not following this day to day, is these ratings from these rating agencies, whether it's about companies or states or countries, are important, and they're interesting. But they don't necessarily drive the real economy.

ROSAPEPESo, for example, we saw on Monday when, right after S&P downgraded the U.S. debt, investors bought U.S. debt -- the people with real money in the game. When I was in Romania, I was there in 1998 during the time of the default by Russia on their debt. And, within a month or so, the value of Romanian debt fell by 50 percent. And Romania had its problems. It was in a recession, no question about it. But it had a record of paying its bills.

ROSAPEPEI was there. I knew they were going to pay their debts. But we kidded that the credit analysts couldn't distinguish between one Eastern European country beginning with the letter R, Russia, and another beginning with the letter R, Romania. So it is not always the case that the financial markets operate the way they should.

ROSAPEPEWe all see that in the United States, over the past decade, in terms of the subprime loan market and everything else, there are people -- I'm not talking about homeowners. I'm talking about very allegedly sophisticated investors who thought that home prices were going to go to the sky. Didn't make any sense then, doesn't make any sense now.

SHERWOODWe're looking at this politically, going into the 2012 election, presume you'll be supporting the re-election of Barack Obama. It looks like the economy is going to be, at best ,ticking along barely positive, maybe not so great. It seems to me if I were a Democrat, I'd be very nervous about the slow return of the economy.

ROSAPEPEAbsolutely. And I think any American is very concerned about the slow return of the economy. Business people that I deal with are very concerned about the slow return of the economy. That's why so many of them are sitting on so much cash because they're afraid to invest. So I think everyone's very concerned about it.

SHERWOODHow important is this 12 super committee? I mean, it has to come up with $1.5 trillion in cuts over the next 10 years. And it has to do it before Thanksgiving, or there'll be horrendous cuts in the military budget, which is...

ROSAPEPEAbsolutely. I think Gov. O'Malley has said this, and others have said it -- I agree with it -- I think the focus this fall now needs to be on jobs and restarting the economy. We do need to deal with the long term debt. I see no reason why this super committee can't be the vehicle through which we try to come to an agreement on a jobs program and a restarting of the economy program, as well as a long term debt reduction program.

ROSAPEPEBecause they have the ability to put everything on the table, and I would hope that the President and members of the committee would take the initiative to focus on what is the real danger, not just to the economy and to people's livelihood. So that's the most important. The real danger to the federal debt is, unless you get the economy growing, we're not going to bring down the federal debt.

NNAMDIThere are members who will be on that committee who will say, jobs, you're talking about spending more federal dollars to create jobs, to create, make work for people? What would you say to those committee members?

ROSAPEPEI would say to them that creating jobs is the number one priority in the United States today. There are 25 million people...

NNAMDIThere are members on that committee who will say the private sector is who creates jobs. They have been describing the Wall Street moguls as the job creators.

ROSAPEPEWell, I don't think many Americans would agree with that. I mean, the Wall Street moguls were the ones who got us into this mess. So I'm not sure that passes the laugh test.

SHERWOODWell, I think they say free enterprise creates the jobs, not government programs.

ROSAPEPEWell, obviously, they both do. I mean, obviously, government and private enterprise work together. I mean, private enterprise doesn't build highways, doesn't build transit systems, doesn't take care of your sewage, doesn't teach your children. So you have to have both.

ROSAPEPEBut the more important issue is that the history of the Depression, 70 years ago, was -- 1937, 1938, when the Congress, at that time, decided to sort of follow a Tea Party route, cut the budget. They extended the Great Depression for three or four years. It didn't end until the federal government started creating demand, started investing. In that case, it was in World War II.

ROSAPEPEBut that ended the Depression. We've tried this before. We know what doesn't work, and we know what does work.

NNAMDIHere is Michael in Severn, Md. Please put on your headphones, Sen. Rosapepe and Tom Sherwood. Michael, you are now on the air. Go ahead, please.

MICHAELHi, good afternoon. I want to just kind of echo the concern that you guys were just discussing. My understanding is that every GOP member of that super committee are signatories of Grover Norquist's anti-tax pledge. And I'm wondering, you know, what the representative thinks of the government contractors in Maryland and the impact that'll have if those military cuts get --you know, take place by default.

ROSAPEPEYou know, it's a great question. I mean, the Republican Party are supposedly these great champions of national defense. And so, hopefully, they're not going to be involved in mindless cuts that we need, in programs that we need for our national defense. In terms of the Washington area economy, obviously, it's very important as well.

ROSAPEPEOn the question of the Grover Norquist tax pledge, as we saw a couple of weeks ago, I guess, when he did an interview with the Washington Post, even Grover Norquist is more flexible than some of these Tea Party people in Congress. So, realistically -- and I'm a very strong Democrat, very strong supporter of President Obama -- that said, we saw, in the past two weeks, there are responsible Republicans on Capitol Hill.

ROSAPEPENot every one is a Tea Party zealot. And so I am hopeful that the responsible Republicans can come together with the Democrats through this super committee process and do what's right in terms of restarting the economy.

NNAMDIGo ahead, please.

SHERWOODI was just going to say, so, ideally, this super committee would do something about jobs, would do something about the cuts, but it doesn't seem to be a door opening, or even a crack of the door, to go to the revenue changes. And unless you can get the members of the Republican side to say that eliminating some tax breaks is not a tax increase -- and they vowed not to increase taxes.

SHERWOODSo if you eliminate some oil subsidy or something like that, that won't be a tax increase. Is that the way you get to more revenue?

ROSAPEPEWell, yeah...

NNAMDIJob creators, job creators. Go ahead, please.

ROSAPEPEI mean, clearly, former Sen. Simpson has made that argument. Sen. Coburn, actually, of Oklahoma, is open to that argument. So, I think, there are Republicans, very conservative Republicans, who aren't crazy. And I think there is the opportunity...

SHERWOODAnd there might be some Democrats who aren't, but I'm not sure.

ROSAPEPEI'll stipulate that, too. But, seriously, I mean, there's been some debate in the media about a plague on both your Houses. And why can't we all get along? That really is not the problem. The fact of the matter is that the Democrats in both Houses, President Obama, have been, if anything, too open to compromise. And so I don't think there's a good argument that the problem has not been the split in the Republican Party.

SHERWOODOh, you're -- you said you're a strong Democrat. I mean, you read in the New York Times op-ed pages and in the Wall Street Journal and across the scheme of political standing, that Obama has become not Mr. Cool, but Mr. Cold, that he has not stood up for the revenue changes that he thought were important, that he's been punting over to Congress to get things done, and he just simply hasn't been a strong leader.

SHERWOODHe's been an occasional participant. Do you agree with that kind of criticism?

ROSAPEPEI don't. I mean, he's been a very active participant. I mean, there's no question that...

SHERWOODYeah, but he's not leading.

ROSAPEPEI think he is leading. And I'll give you an example. Sen. Ben Cardin did a conference call the end of last week with local elected officials in Maryland to update us on the fiscal situation.

ROSAPEPEAnd one of the points he made was that, even though it has not gotten much attention in the press, President Obama has said publicly and privately that unless there is an agreement maybe this fall, maybe next year, over a balanced approach to restarting the economy and dealing with our long term debt issues in a fair way, including revenues, he will veto any extension of the Bush tax cuts.

ROSAPEPEThat's a very strong, tough position. And Sen. Cardin's point was...

SHERWOODBut those don't expire until December 2012.

ROSAPEPEThat's exactly right.

SHERWOODThat's after the election.

ROSAPEPEThat's right, which that's exactly the point, is that if he is not willing to make a deal before the end of 2012...

SHERWOODRight.

ROSAPEPE...that is not balanced, that isn't fair, that doesn't make sure that millionaires and billionaires pay their fair share, the tax cuts are going to expire. That's tough.

SHERWOODThat seems like a long way off, given what we're facing now.

NNAMDIIn terms of Maryland politics, the Maryland Dream Act seems to be in jeopardy. Its opponents have managed to get a referendum so that the voters can vote against it. This is the act that was passed that would allow people who are children of illegal immigrants and who, therefore, technically are illegal immigrants themselves, who went to schools in Maryland, to be able to go to the University of Maryland campuses at in-state tuition rates.

NNAMDIWhat's your view about this?

ROSAPEPEWell, I'm prejudiced about this 'cause I was born in Italy. I think immigration is a good thing for our country. I think it's been one of our great strengths over the years. Hardworking, ambitious people coming to the United States is a good thing for us, and has been for hundreds and hundreds of years, so I'm not one of these anti-immigrant people.

ROSAPEPESecondly, I think, specifically in the case of this legislation, basically what it says is that, if you paid taxes in Maryland, your family has paid taxes in Maryland, you went to local schools, you are a resident. And the issue here is resident tuition. There are many people who are citizens of the United States who are not residents of Maryland. They don't get in-state tuition 'cause they're not residents.

ROSAPEPESo I think, technically, it's quite reasonable. But, more importantly, we need to send the message that we embrace our immigrant neighbors and that we're not trying to drive them out.

SHERWOODIt sounds like it's going to be a nasty side campaign to the presidential race, and it's going to be ugly. What's the simplest explanation of the Dream Act is that people are taxpayers, so, therefore -- in the state of Maryland -- so, therefore, they get the lower rates of in-state tuition?

ROSAPEPEThe same reason every other resident does. You went to the schools. Your parents paid taxes. You get in-state rates. It's pretty simple.

NNAMDII'm afraid we're just about out of time. I should mention that, in addition to serving as U.S. ambassador to Romania in the late 1990s, our guest co-authored a book called, "Dracula is Dead," about Romania's ending communism and moving towards the future. And, even more importantly than that, he is affiliated with public radio.

SHERWOODYou know, people in Romania, some of them don't like this Dracula reference. They want to put a stake in the heart of Dracula references.

NNAMDII'm glad you asked. How is he affiliated with public radio? He happens to be married to Sheila Kast, who is the host of "Maryland Morning" on Baltimore's WYPR and has filled in, in this seat, on occasion. Please say hello to Sheila for us.

ROSAPEPEHi, Sheila.

SHERWOODI sound like a commercial.

ROSAPEPEAs importantly for our listeners, marrying well is the best thing you can do in your life.

NNAMDIThank you all for listening. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.