MR. KOJO NNAMDIFrom WAMU 88.5 at American University in Washington, welcome to The Politics Hour featuring Tom Sherwood. I'm Kojo Nnamdi. There are four things you need to know about Tom Sherwood. He is, one, our resident analyst. Two, he's an NBC 4 reporter. Three, he is a columnist for the Current Newspapers. And four, Tom is now a bike rider. And starting today, the new bike law goes into effect in Maryland. And it says if you're driving your car and you pass within 3 feet of Tom Sherwood while he's riding his bike in Maryland, you could be fined as much as $500. Of course, if you pass within that distance of a bike rider in Maryland, it probably won't be Tom Sherwood. He does most of his riding in the District, but the $500 fine applies, anyway. Tom Sherwood, good to see you.

MR. TOM SHERWOODI'm happy to be here. I think we should start this program, though, with a moment of silence...

NNAMDIFor?

SHERWOOD...for the Washington Redskins as they go up to Philadelphia.

NNAMDIIt's only 1-2 so far this season.

SHERWOODMcNabb is going in to -- back to Philadelphia in a Redskins' uniform.

NNAMDIHe did very well for the Philadelphia Eagles while he was there.

SHERWOODHe will be on a bike. He may need a bike to get around from those defenders.

NNAMDIWould you ride your bike as far as Perryville, Md. to go to the new casino which opened this past Monday...

SHERWOODOh, yeah.

NNAMDI...and attracted 21,000 people in the first week?

SHERWOODI mean, it's really not a casino. It's just a slots parlor. And what is a casino when you have table games and all the other great games of gambling. It's just a slots parlor. And no, I would not.

NNAMDIYou're not going at all? Or you're just not gonna bicycle?

SHERWOODI'm not gonna go there. If I wanna go to a casino, I'm sorry, I'll go to West Virginia...

NNAMDIWere you surprised...

SHERWOOD...or Delaware or Pennsylvania.

NNAMDIWere you surprised that after all of the opposition and all of the bickering in Maryland, as many as 21,000 people showed up in the first day?

SHERWOODNo. It's a very popular thing. I mean, there are many ways for the states to take money from senior citizens and other people who shouldn't be gambling, and that's what they're doing with slots. It's very popular. The states should have started a year ago if they want the money.

NNAMDIWell...

SHERWOODBut the bike thing is great, you know, 'cause that -- it's -- they were never gonna have peace between motorists and bicyclists.

NNAMDILater in the broadcast, we will be talking with a representative, the manager of the Public and Government Relations for AAA, John Townsend. And that's an issue that's likely to come up. Here's an e-mail we got from Nathan in Rockville. "I would very much like to know how, if at all, the state will deal with the impact of gambling addicts. Why won't the state force the casino to keep a fund for gambling addict services. Can you answer that?"

SHERWOODWell, I believe, you know, Nevada has that. And I don't know -- I thought there was something in the -- and I don't know. But I thought there was something in Maryland law that there has to be some moneys available for gambling anonymous...

NNAMDIWell...

SHERWOOD...phone lines, et cetera.

NNAMDI...we'll have to see whether that happens or not in the initial stages. However, both Gov. O'Malley and his opponent, former Gov. Bob Ehrlich seem to be battling over who gets more credit for a lot of people showing up to the casino and who is handling the whole casino issue better. In Virginia, Sen. Webb and Gov. McDonnell are incensed at the Pentagon because of the plan to close the Joint Forces Command in Hampton Roads. That closure being part of Defense Secretary Robert Gates' ambitious plan to make the Pentagon's budget more efficient in anticipation of possible future cutbacks. The irony here, invariably, is that yes, everybody agrees that the Pentagon's got to make future cutbacks, but invariably no, don't do it in my district because it's gonna losing jobs.

SHERWOODOh, and Virginia has -- I don't know how many -- untold millions of dollars and tens of thousands of jobs that are dependent upon the military-industrial complex, so you can expect some squealing like stuck pigs over this.

NNAMDIAnd in Virginia, Gov. Bob McDonnell, at a speech at Norfolk State University, decided to backpedal from this year's proclamation of Confederate History Month in the Commonwealth and he decided that won't be happening next year. He apologized for it for doing it this year. Especially apologizing for saying that slavery was only a side issue when it came to the confederacy. So come next April, he says he'll proclaim Civil War in Virginia month. And of course, he is now under attack by the Sons of Confederate Veterans.

SHERWOODWell, of course. But he is -- I mean, he made a mistake on this. He apologized. And now, he's trying to recognize. I mean, Virginia was the center of the Civil War. It would be foolish for the state to ignore it. And having a Civil War month where you can both the battlefields and the toil on -- the toll of that conflict and the race relations in the country. It's a perfect place to recognize the impact of the Civil War. And don't call it -- not to honor the confederate veterans but to honor the history of the United States of America.

NNAMDIWell, both Arlington and Virginia and the District of Columbia and several other jurisdictions in the country thought they could get out of the security communities law that allows the fingerprints of people who are arrested for anything, whether a traffic offense or a serious crime, to be passed on to the FBI. And when it goes to the FBI, it has access to ICE, the Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency. And ICE can just go through it and see if any of those fingerprints belong to people who are in the country illegally. The District thought it could opt out of it and did. Arlington thought it could opt out of it and thought it did. But now, we get a ruling saying, no, you can't opt out. You have to be in this program.

SHERWOODWhat's gonna happen if they're not? I mean, did -- well, maybe we'll talk to the councilmember coming up on this. But you know, if the council is -- I think is pasted not to be part of this program. What happens? Are they gonna come in and fingerprint us? I mean, what are they gonna do if don't follow their law?

NNAMDILet's ask the aforementioned council person. She is in here because not only is she a member of the D.C. City Council representing Ward 3 and chair of the Government Operation -- the Committee on Government Operations and the Environment, she is running for reelection in November as the Democratic candidate. Mary Cheh, thank you for joining us.

MS. MARY CHEHThank you for having me.

NNAMDIWe will introduce your opponent shortly when we get to the debate part of the discussion.

SHERWOODI think we should take...

CHEHOkay.

SHERWOOD...her fingerprints to make her prove that she is in fact Mary Cheh.

NNAMDIAnd that she has not committed any crime and is in the country legally. But how does this security -- Secure Communities' decision affect the District of Columbia? We thought we could opt out. We thought it was voluntary. Apparently, it isn't.

CHEHWell, it would depend on how they intend to pursue it. The federal government has many levers, as you know. They could say that certain monies won't be made available unless we comply. They could deprive us of other services and things of that kind. They can get quite severe about it. Now, on occasion, there have been situations with local jurisdictions, when they thought that civil rights were an issue where they simply go until they are forced to change, and that may well be the posture that we take. I have not yet seen any directive or any threats. So until we know exactly what we're dealing with, we have to wait.

NNAMDIWhat was the nature of the concern that led the District to make the decision the city council to opt-out?

CHEHWell, there are many instances where people may be involved in troublesome situations. They may be victims, for example, and yet, they might be afraid to call the police or to seek help on behalf of themselves or their families. And so that kind of chilling effect when they know that if they even come into contact with police and have to give their fingerprints would put them in such peril really endangers not only them but the larger community. And so it was because of that -- principally, because of that effect that the District decided to opt-out.

NNAMDIAlso joining us in studio is David Hedgepeth. He is the Republican candidate for D.C. Council for Ward 3. David Hedgepeth, thank you very much for joining us.

MR. DAVID HEDGEPETHThank you for having me, Kojo.

NNAMDIIf you have questions or comments for the candidates, you can call us at 800-433-8850 or go to our website, kojoshow.org. Send an e-mail to kojo@wamu.org or a tweet, @kojoshow. We should advise the candidates we will ask you to limit your responses to no more than 60 seconds or so, and at the end of it, each of you will have one minute to make a closing statement.

NNAMDIDavid Hedgepeth, allow me to start with you. Ward 3 is heavily Democratic, that is heavily Democrat registered. That makes your candidacy an uphill battle. You're gonna need all of the 7,896 Republicans and a sizable portion of the 10,000 or 11,000 independents in order to unseat Mary Cheh, but you have said that the incumbent is out of touch with her constituents. So, I guess, you're hoping for Democrat votes also. What are some of the concerns of Ward 3 residents that you think are not being addressed?

HEDGEPETHWell, Kojo, I think the two main issues that are important to Ward 3 are education and quality of life issues. And I think that residents of Ward 3 have very clearly indicated that they're behind Chancellor Rhee and the reforms that she has enacted, and they also very clearly indicated that they were behind our soon-to-be-former mayor, Mayor Adrian Fenty. Mayor Fenty won Ward 3 by 80 percent of the vote. Now, as everyone should know by now, my opponent, Council Member Cheh, chose to endorse Vince Gray, and Vince Gray got 20 percent of the vote. So when such an overwhelming...

NNAMDIIn Ward 3?

HEDGEPETHIn Ward 3.

NNAMDIBecause remember, he won the primary.

HEDGEPETHThat's right. But when such an overwhelming majority of Ward 3 residents backed Mayor Fenty and Michelle Rhee, I think that gives a lot of people reason to question whether our current representative truly represents us.

NNAMDILet me raise a philosophical question with you for one second because I've always thought the role of a politically -- an elected official or a leader is both to follow the desires of your constituents and on occasion to lead. If one makes the argument that despite the fact that her constituents were supportive of Fenty, does that necessarily mean that the council member should follow the constituents or should the council member attempt to lead the constituents in which she feels might be a better direction, Vincent Gray?

HEDGEPETHWell, I think that it is a role of the council member not to simply follow his or her constituents. I mean that's not why we have a representative form of government, and you are supposed to rely on your representative to use his or her best judgment. But I think that there are certain issues like the future of our city and the direction that we feel our city should go and who best embodies that, that there is such a disconnect between our representative's judgment and the people's judgment, then something is a little out of whack.

SHERWOODBefore we let her come in -- I don't want to speak for her, but I would say that having covered the city over the last few years, I do know that Mary Cheh tried to work with the incumbent, Mayor Fenty, and it was he who closed all the doors. Whatever the issues were with many council members, I mean, that's one of the reasons he lost. You had a mayor who was not cooperating on major city issues, wouldn't that be a legitimate reason not to support him whether people like what he's doing on education or not?

CHEHAt some point, I'll be able to say...

SHERWOODWe'll let you speak...

CHEH...why I didn't...

NNAMDISince Tom and I seem to be making all of your arguments for you that may not be any need for you to speak.

CHEHNo, no, carry on. You know, I...

HEDGEPETHWell, I mean, here's where I see it. When I endorsed Mayor Fenty for reelection in August, I basically said on the two issues that matter most to Ward 3, education and quality of life issues, building parks, rec centers, libraries, playgrounds, he's gotten those two things right. Now, I know Council Member Cheh has been involved in a number of issues with the Fenty administration, but I think Ward 3 residents were asking her to weigh that and weigh that against what they feel were the most important issues.

SHERWOODCouncil Member Cheh, what about that? Was it your personal -- as you know, many council members just could not get Mayor Fenty to work with them on virtually anything, was that the reason you endorsed Vince Gray?

CHEHNo. You know, I am very much in touch with my residents, and I knew of the sentiment in favor of Mr. Fenty. But what you have to consider is what we should do best going forward. I give all credit to Mayor Fenty for the work that he has done, looking, you know, in the rearview mirror. But going forward, we are now at a stage where we spent down the surplus. We're deeply into our funds, and we're at the very top of our credit limit, and we have a crunch, as you know, on the budget. And unfortunately, the mayor alienated all of his natural partners, not just the council but nonprofits and community groups and others. He in effect disabled himself from going forward/ So I do very much know the needs of the residents and their desires, and it is to go forward with education reform. The best person to do that, though, looking through the windshield, going forward was not now Mayor Fenty, despite all of the good things that he had done and for which I give him full credit. But going forward, the person who would be able to do that now, because he's able to unite the city and because he's able to bring in all these groups, would in fact be Vincent Gray.

SHERWOODBut no Michelle Rhee?

CHEHWell, that wasn't automatically the case, but here is something to keep in mind. In terms of education reform, Vincent Gray was a central player in changing the architecture of how we govern the schools. And that architecture is in place and Mr. Gray is fully committed to school reform and to going forward. Now, I know in a campaign, you know, people say things and they emphasize negative things and they say things sometimes that are a little stark, and he was painted you know, by his opponents that it would be going back. We would have no school reform. Well, that's flatly, flatly untrue. And he is the best person now, and that's why, even though, you know, the sentiment was for Fenty obviously, even though that was the case, I felt it was important for me to identify who would best get us where we wanna go and who would best be able to bring together all of the partners that we need now in a different economic time.

NNAMDIHere's an e-mail we got from Michael who describes himself as a Ward 3 constituent. "I'm a registered Democrat, and I joined over 800 people in writing in against you in the Democratic primary. Your decision to assist Mr. Gray in ousting Mayor Fenty will lead to the departure of many highly-qualified and effective agency heads, from Michelle Rhee to Gabe Klein and many others. It strikes me as shockingly out of touch with your constituents who overwhelmingly supported Mayor Fenty and selected Mr. Orange for council chair. I will be crossing party lines to support Mr. Hedgepeth." How do you think Ward 3 would have been adversely impacted by four more years of a Fenty administration?

CHEHWell, precisely as I indicated, I think again, and I give full credit to Mayor Fenty for what he had done in the past. But whether, you know, it was intentional, I don't think so, but the mayor's governing style and his methodology -- actually he hampered himself. He disabled himself from being able to be an effective leader going forward. And so for that reason, because I do want to go forward on school reform and in all of these other areas, Mr. Gray seemed the better person. And also when I came out, because obviously there was no benefit to me, but when I came out, I wanted to be able to tell people that story, number one, and number two, I have worked with Mr. Gray over the course of four years. I didn't know the man from the beginning. And so, I had a certain perspective on his leadership and his capacity and his instincts that I thought would be worth sharing with the residents of Ward 3.

NNAMDIAllow me, Mr. Hedgepeth, to stay with school reform for just a little while longer because as you and others have mentioned, Michelle Rhee and school reform were very popular in your ward. What would you want to see happen with the D.C. public schools if you are on the Council, and I guess that means do you also think Vincent Gray should keep Michelle Rhee as schools chancellor?

HEDGEPETHI certainly think Chairman Gray should keep Michelle Rhee, and I think that we need to be committed to the reforms that have already been enacted. And one of the things that worries me is that Chairman Gray was very non-committal about his willingness to keep Chancellor Rhee and I think that so far, things don't look too good for her being able to stay as chancellor. And I think that a lot of momentum will be lost. Chancellor Rhee has put in three very productive years. Test scores have...

NNAMDIBut assuming you're elected and she is not around, what would you advocate for school -- public schools in D.C.?

HEDGEPETHWell, like I said, I mean, I do think that we need to stay committed to the cause of reform. As a lot of people have said, the cause of reform is bigger than Michelle Rhee, although when we had such a capable, committed reformer, there was absolutely no reason to change course. But as far as my position on the Council, I will be pledged to vigorous oversight in making sure that whoever the new chancellor is stays committed to the reforms that have already been enacted.

NNAMDIHere's Joe in Washington, D.C. Joe, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

JOEIn 2008, the D.C. auditor, Deborah Nichols, issued a scathing report regarding the Board of Real Property Assessments' appeals. The board concluded -- the report concluded that this vital D.C. agency, which grants property tax relief in the billions every year, was riddled with inefficiency, ineptitude, bad management practices and ethical violations by its chairman. My question to Mary Cheh is, why, as chairperson of the governmental operations committee, did you never hold hearings on this report? I note that the D.C. auditor isn't an employee of the D.C. Council, and your official government website states that you are quote, "Committed to good government," unquote.

CHEHThe Board of Contract Appeals does not fall under my committee of government operations and the environment. The Board of Contract Appeals, however, is one that the Council and I in particular have repeatedly said needs to be reformed. Councilmember Evans has jurisdiction over this, and he has promised to bring forward proposals for reform. I couldn't agree with you more that that board is in definite need of reform. And not only that -- not just because it would be good government but because the fact of the matter is that the District of Columbia is losing money that is rightfully owed and also piling on assessments where it shouldn't be doing so. So I'm completely in agreement with your assessment.

SHERWOODMister -- may I ask Mr. Hedgepeth a question?

HEDGEPETHYes, sir.

SHERWOODThank you. I wanna ask about development along Wisconsin Avenue and Connecticut Avenue. The incumbent, as I believe it, supported some development at these places but the Ward 3 has been notorious, in my view, with its fight over the Tenley Library at -- on Wisconsin Avenue, the fight over the bus turnaround spot of upper Wisconsin Avenue, the GIANT food store down near Macomb Street, the Safeway store on Davenport. This is just one street...

HEDGEPETHRight.

SHERWOOD...for those who don’t live here. Well, how would you approach differently development issues in Ward 3, where people want modern services but don't kind of want the same 1950s neighborhoods that they had in the 1950s? Has she'd -- not Michelle -- has Mary Cheh been doing something good or bad when it comes to changing face of the Ward 3 in terms of development?

HEDGEPETHI think we've done a pretty good job with development along the major corridors, and I am definitely supportive of development along Wisconsin and Connecticut Avenues because...

SHERWOODBut what GIANT foods, for example has been trying for years to build something, and that store literally looks like something from the '50s, what would you do there to make that happen?

HEDGEPETHWell, I believe that that's already happening, but I think that working with the community in the best way possible to make sure that there's buying and understanding of what's really at stake here, because I think that in order for D.C. to continue its growth and its renaissance, we need to be able to add population because we are so revenue limited -- revenue restricted, I should say.

SHERWOODWell, with -- the problem has been -- the community buy-in has been community block. All these things have not happened for years 'cause there's been at least some -- a few ANC people who botched it up. Would you want development to move forward faster or slower? Are you happy the way things are? Then Ms. Mary Cheh can respond.

HEDGEPETHWell, I mean, I don't think that we should get too far ahead of the community. I think that, you know, if it takes time -- and now unfortunately the GIANT is a very extreme case, where it's taking, in my opinion, way too much time for that to get off the ground -- but I think that we need to be patient and not get too far ahead of the community, and like I say, get the most level of buy-in possible.

NNAMDIIn case you're just joining us, that's the voice of David Hedgepeth. He is the Republican candidate for D.C. Council for Ward 3. He joins us in studio along with Mary Cheh. She is the incumbent councilmember representing Ward 3. She also chairs the Committee on Government Operations and the Environment. She is running for re-election. Mary Cheh, Tom Sherwood asked the same question of you.

CHEHYes. You know, when you speak about the community, of course the community is not monolithic. When I went around during the last campaign and all the four years that I've been in office, talking to people, I think that the community is largely of a mind that they want sort of energetic, lively retail along the corridors, and they do want that kind of development. I personally went before the zoning commission to testify on behalf of the development of the GIANT. I've secured money for a million and a half or perhaps more for the streetscape along Cleveland Park so that that can be fixed up, and $50,000 for them to start a business association. The same is true over in Glover Park, the streetscape over there.

CHEHI have attempted all along the way to be helpful and productive in terms of seeing the corridors develop. I must say that I had a little bit of -- I don't know -- I'll put it --- reticence from the Office of Planning in terms of coming forward with a plan that would be more comprehensive because of the past that you referenced, Tom. But I think that the wheel has turned. I think that, you know, there've been some changes in the ANC and voices that are usually quiet but nevertheless more majoritarian have come forward and say -- said that we want lively retail business development and growth along the corridors. And I think that that, in fact, is where the center of gravity is at this time.

SHERWOODAnd if I could just proceed for one more moment...

CHEHMm-hmm.

SHERWOODFriendship Heights...

NNAMDIYou see., Tom sees development in Ward 3 as the debate over whether or not we can bring Tom Sherwood back to Ward 3. He tends to follow (unintelligible)

SHERWOODI'm very happy in southwest Washington.

CHEHSo he insisted…

SHERWOODI hope everyone saw that great story...

CHEHSo he insists he's not...

SHERWOOD...on Arena Stage which is opening later this month.

CHEHHe insists he's not coming back.

SHERWOOD(unintelligible) Friendship Heights.

NNAMDIBoasting that new development where he now lives.

SHERWOODAll the Maryland people I know who live in Maryland, D.C. people at Western Avenue Wisconsin, Maryland has pursued a significant development on its side of Western Avenue, while the city is -- on this side has failed to decide what to do with the Lord and Taylor Store, with the bus turnaround, with all that type of development. Yet the D.C. citizens walk across Western Avenue, shop and eat and send all their tax dollars...

CHEHAnd pay taxes, yes.

SHERWOOD...that go to Annapolis and not with us.

CHEHExactly right. Exactly right.

SHERWOODSo...

CHEHAnd so...

SHERWOOD...so we need more aggressive -- how that commercial area is developed?

CHEHYes. Yes, we should, and I do think that the Office of Planning, you know, has begun to take a new look at this, and I will be pushing them to do that. As I said, they were a little – how shall I put this -- shell shocked with some of the reaction that they got when they tried to do a small area plan around Tenley Town. But I think that, you know, again, I think that we've moved the chains on that, and it's time to revisit it.

NNAMDIHere's Stacey in Washington, D.C. Stacey, you're on the air. Go ahead please.

STACEYHi. I would just like to ask Mr. Hedgepeth, as a Republican, what is his position on the district's marriage equality law, and that would he intend to seek reversal of that law?

HEDGEPETHThanks for your question. If I'm elected to the Council, I will absolutely not seek reversal of the district's gay marriage law. And if I had been on the Council, I would have voted for it. One of the things...

SHERWOODWhat makes you a Republican?

NNAMDIHey, he's a Carol Schwartz Republican. (laugh)

HEDGEPETHI —well, Kojo said it. I'm a D.C. Republican. I'm an urban Republican, and I think that...

SHERWOODAre all five of you? (laugh)

HEDGEPETHWell, 7,700 in Ward 3.

NNAMDII was about to say Mr. Hedgepeth is hoping for a lot more votes than that.

HEDGEPETHBut I do think that, you know, when it comes to party affiliation and what we consider important, I think there's a lot of common areas between Democrats and Republicans. And I think gay marriage is one of those issues.

NNAMDIIn the district. Here is Kristopher in Washington, D.C. You should know that this is Kris Baumann, who's the head of the Police Union. Kristopher Baumann, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

KRISTOPHER BAUMANNHi, Kojo. Thanks for having me on. One of the questions I have -- and I'm a D.C. resident, a Ward 3 resident, and I'm also Republican, and as you mentioned, I'm the head of the D.C. Police Union -- is I've not heard a lot of talk about what Mary Cheh has done as far as opening the government up. As a Republican, I'm a big fan of fighting corruption, opening government up and finding out what's going on. And she has been a lioness about that issue, where no one else has touched it in decades. She's gone out there, changed the law, demanded accountability. And I wonder, is she getting credit from that? Do the Republicans acknowledge what she's done there? And is she hearing much about that out on the campaign trail?

NNAMDIFirst you, Mary Cheh.

CHEHWell, how can I follow up on such a lovely lead-in except to say that I guess...

SHERWOODI can't believe this.

CHEHExcept...

NNAMDIWas that in the question?

SHERWOODDo you think...

CHEHExcept...

SHERWOOD...Cathy Lanier should remain as police chief (laugh) and the union doesn't really want her to stay. Do you -- will you support Cathy Lanier?

CHEHI do. And in fact, when I went before the police union...

SHERWOODDoesn't know that long.

NNAMDIThen, could she answer Kris Baumann's question.

CHEHNo, no, no. No. In fact...

SHERWOODKris, that's a good question.

CHEHNo. In fact, before -- when I went before the Police Union, they did ask me that same question. And I said, yes, I support Cathy Lanier. I understand some of the issues that have been raised. In fact, I've raised some of them myself in some -- in terms of some of what -- I'm sorry to say this, but cool gimmicks that the department has engaged in, you know, the checkpoints which were ultimately declared unconstitutional, and some of the other activities. But I think overall that Cathy Lanier has been an excellent police chief. I think she has the rapport of the community. And I'm hoping very much -- in fact, when I recently happened to have an opportunity to speak with Chairman Gray about some things, hers was one of the names that I asked that he give a very, very special look at.

NNAMDIDavid Hedgepeth?

HEDGEPETHI just like to say, I mean, from ethics to -- from ethics reform to open government, I think the D.C. Republican Party has always been very strong on those issues. And so as far as those issues go, we don't have a problem with anything that Councilmember Cheh has been doing. But I think that's somewhat of a side issue because I think that for Republicans, Independents and Democrats, the questions that we need to be focusing on are the judgment of our current council member, the focus of our current council member, and the temperament of our current council member.

SHERWOODTemperament?

HEDGEPETHTemperament.

SHERWOODUh-oh, what does that mean?

NNAMDIWhy'd you bring that up when we only have two minutes left in the discussion?

SHERWOODProbably meant well.

NNAMDIWhat do you mean by temperament?

HEDGEPETHWell, I think that Councilmember Cheh can oftentimes be very, let's say, disagreeable with people that she disagrees with and not always the most civil person. And I think that...

NNAMDIWould you care to mention specifics about that?

SHERWOODAn example?

NNAMDIAn example?

HEDGEPETHAn example?

NNAMDIYes.

HEDGEPETHI think that there's a lot that's come out in Councilmember Cheh's relationship with Attorney General Nichols, where there has been name calling on both sides, where things have just seemed like we have adult's play in a sandbox.

NNAMDICouncilmember Cheh, you stand accused of having a disagreeable temperament when it comes to your relationship with Attorney General Peter Nichols.

CHEHWell, all I can say is yes, we have clashed. There's no question about that. But, you know, I just -- gee, Mr. Hedgepeth to describe me as disagreeable because I've had encounters with an attorney general who's fairly -- how shall we put this...

SHERWOODA bully himself. (laugh)

CHEH...I think is quite unfair, frankly.

NNAMDIKris Baumann, by the way, thank you very much for your call. Candidates, we have come to that point in our discussion where we have to ask you for your one-minute closing statement. First, you, the challenger, Mr. Hedgepeth.

HEDGEPETHThank you, Kojo. Thank you, Tom, for having me on today. A couple of weeks ago, I received a message from Councilmember Cheh and telling her accomplishments. And at the bottom it said, your neighbor, your voice. Well, I think that Ms. Cheh will try to make an effort to convince you that I'm not your neighbor in the sense that I truly share your hopes and aspirations for the city and Ward 3. But if you'll learn more about me, which I hope you will take the time to do, you can visit my website at www.daveforward3.com, you'll find that I am the father of two six-year-old daughters, Annie and Veda, who attend the same elementary school, Murch, that Ms. Cheh sent her daughters to. And you'll also find on another local level that I shop at the same farmer's market and so that -- these labels that people want to apply are a little bit more distracting than helpful. So I hope people will take the time to learn more about me and my campaign.

NNAMDIMary Cheh?

CHEHYes. You know, I have to say again. Mr. Hedgepeth, if I described myself as a neighbor and a friend, and you take that as an insult to you, I'm completely shocked by that. I have never said anything negative about you whatsoever. But beyond that, I will also thank you for getting in this race because I think an election is about engagement and I like the idea about having an actual debate about issues. I think that, you know, I focused my last campaign on several items, on school reform, on the bringing the projects in the Ward to fruition like the Wilson Pool, like our rec centers, like getting our roads paved and all of that. And I think that over the last four years, I've been able to do a very effective job and at the same time be very responsive to the community. So I would hope that they would permit me to have another term, to continue the work that I've already started.

NNAMDIMary Cheh is the incumbent representative on the D.C. City Council representing Ward 3. She's also chair of the Committee on Government Operations and the Environment. Mary Cheh, thank you very much for joining us.

CHEHThank you.

NNAMDIDavid Hedgepeth is the Republican candidate for the Ward 3 seat on the City Council. David Hedgepeth, thank you very much for joining us.

HEDGEPETHThank you, Kojo.

NNAMDIIt's The Politics Hour featuring Tom Sherwood. Coming up, John Townsend, manager of Public and Government Relations for AAA. In the meantime, Tom Sherwood, you said earlier that you have spent a few years covering D.C. politics. Exactly what is your definition of few anyway? We can move on it. (laugh)

SHERWOODDecades. A few decades, I should've said. I stand corrected. Decades.

NNAMDIAnd I noticed that you, as I have on several occasion, almost confuse the name Mary Cheh with the name Michelle Rhee. The next time we have Mary Cheh on, we have to explore the cultural origins of her surname because...

SHERWOODYeah.

NNAMDI...it always seems to be confused, because it sounds Asian but clearly isn't.

SHERWOODWe should just call her Cheh.

SHERWOODJust forget the Mary.

NNAMDIThen people will start thinking that she's related to Che Guevara.

SHERWOODNo, that's only you and your mindset.

NNAMDIMy mindset, but thinks so. President Obama this week made the surprising announcement that Sidwell Friends is better than most D.C. schools. It's so surprising that it was a front-page headline. And, of course, then everybody ran to say, but there are some excellent D.C. public schools. I know I sent my own children to D.C. public schools. There are some excellent D.C. public schools, but what's the big surprise there?

SHERWOODWell, what the president said is not in factual dispute. Why he said it, how he said it, the tone of what he said led me -- he was asked on an NBC program whether his kids could get the same kind of quality education in D.C. public school that they could get at Sidwell Friends, which everyone knows is an elite school. And he said, well, let me be blunt. No. I mean, he could've said something a little more -- softer answer and the correct answer would've been, you know, parents make a choice of where to send their children. We've made that decision. And there are some good schools in the city. They've been struggling to reform themselves. But I believe that my children are getting the best education where they are. That would've been a nice answer other than talking like some guy sitting at the end of a bar.

NNAMDIAnd if you want to know why so many parents in D.C. cannot afford to send their children to Sidwell Friends or any other private school, just look at the poverty statistics that came out this week. On the District of Columbia, the poverty rates in the District where use of food stamps went up about a third in two years, exceeded every other jurisdiction and even surpassed the rate in Mississippi. The childhood poverty number standing in stark contrast to the city's rising income level, which despite the recession, grew steadily over four years to more than $59,000 a year. But that growth has been an uneven because the downtown area is the only place in the city where medium incomes are rising. They used to think the city was recession proof. Obvious, it isn't, at least not for the poorer residents of the city.

SHERWOODWell, the poor have been poor in the city. It's bad that these numbers are going up.

NNAMDIRecession going up.

SHERWOODAnd there are urbans -- urban cities in urban places, the poverty rates are terrible. And that's what Vince Gray has said, D.C.'s mayor, that he wants to bring a little more focus to that because of the 30 percent unemployment rate. So the analysis were done by the D.C. Fiscal Policy Institute, which sounds like some kind of judicial on the one hand, just on the one hand. That group, it's a very good group, but it is an advocacy group for social spending. But the fact are -- is that poverty is a significant problem. But with the recovery occurring now in the economy and the government spending, this region is benefiting. So maybe the government -- the city government can put more resources towards the poverty issue because it clearly needs to be addressed.

SHERWOODIs the D.C. Fiscal Policy Institute the organization that employs the former Loose Lips and Washington Post reporter who we used to have on this show to discuss her social life?

SHERWOODYes. But I don't know if she's -- I haven't seen her around for a while. But I think she's still there. And, you know, Ed Lazear is a very good guy who runs that office, but he's an advocate. So I guess they want to make it sound like it's an academic discussion.

NNAMDIMaryland's new hands-free cell phone law takes effect today. Joining us in the studio now is John Townsend. He is the manager of Public and Government Relations for AAA Mid-Atlantic. John Townsend, good to see you again.

MR. JOHN TOWNSENDGood to see you, Kojo.

SHERWOODDo you have a cell phone?

TOWNSENDI do. Right here and I have the...

SHERWOODIs it off?

TOWNSENDIt's off.

SHERWOODOkay.

TOWNSENDIt should be off in my car too.

NNAMDIThe difference in Maryland and the District is that in Maryland, this cell phone law is called a secondary offense.

TOWNSENDThat's true.

NNAMDICan you tell our listeners what that -- it means?

TOWNSENDThat means than an officer has to catch you doing another traffic offense or committing another traffic offense before he can pull you over for talking on the cell phone without a hands free device.

NNAMDIIn the District of Columbia, you can be pulled over if you have no hands free device, then you can be pulled over for that as a primary offense.

TOWNSENDYeah. That's a primary offense. And I know because I've gotten the ticket.

NNAMDIIn...

SHERWOODYou have?

TOWNSENDYes.

SHERWOODYes.

NNAMDIVirginia...

TOWNSENDThat's a AAA secret.

SHERWOODWell, not anymore.

NNAMDIVirginia has no law against driving while using a cell phone.

TOWNSENDThat's true.

NNAMDIBut you thought I was gonna let you get away with the part about getting a ticket while -- why would the AAA spokesperson, the person who has been horrendous about safety in not using cell phone, be caught in the District of Columbia driving while using a cell phone without a hands free device?

SHERWOODI think his credibility is shot.

TOWNSENDThat's right. I'm a crook (unintelligible)

NNAMDI(unintelligible) (laugh)

TOWNSENDWell, I should've said. (laugh)

SHERWOODWhen did you -- when did this happen and why?

TOWNSENDI was leaving a television studio after doing an interview. And I got a media call. You guys caused the problem.

NNAMDIIt was our fault so.

TOWNSENDIt was your fault. (laugh)

NNAMDIBlame the messenger. (laugh) Isn't that...

SHERWOODDoes it make -- you know, Virginia doesn't have this law. Is there some...

TOWNSENDPersonal freedom for personal (word?)

SHERWOODI know. They wouldn't have had seatbelts either. So, I mean, no. That's how they got seatbelts. The federal government said we won't give you federal transportation money. That's the only reason Virginia did seatbelts. But the many states...

TOWNSENDBut it's still secondary.

SHERWOODRight. But -- that made me lose the thought of my question.

NNAMDIWhat about texting while driving? You feel it's easier to pass bans on texting while driving. Why is that?

TOWNSENDI think lawmakers think that it's young people who do this, who text while drive. But our surveys show that trillions of text messages were sent last year. Now it is being utilized by every age group. And so there's been a creep in this use of texting while driving. And I think the legislation and lawmakers haven't caught up with that yet. Perhaps that's the most pernicious form of distracted driving, and it really needs to be banned. Matter of fact, AAA is pushing for a 50-state ban on texting while driving.

SHERWOODBut is -- in Virginia where there is -- we don't have these laws, is there statistics...

TOWNSENDWell, Virginia has a texting...

SHERWOOD...any statistics to show that there are more wrecks from people using cell phones or texting or -- is there some statistic that says, in Virginia, you take your life in your hands because people are talking and driving as opposed to D.C., where it's been against the law for a year?

TOWNSENDWell, I think that the statistics and the research is catching up with that. We know in Maryland, for example, that 1,300 people died in a 10-year period because of what is called inattentive driving. And the numbers...

SHERWOODPutting on makeup to eating a hoagie sandwich...

TOWNSENDIt could be a host of things. As defined in Maryland, it's inattentive driving. And we have that problem. It's pernicious not only in Virginia and the District of Columbia but also across the nation. And we know that it's the cause of billions of dollars in crashes every year, thousands of crashes, and the loss of thousands of lives and multiple injuries behind the wheel. So we have to do something about it.

NNAMDIAnd here's what they are thinking of doing, Tom, and this is where the surprise might come in for some of our listeners. Feel free to call us when you hear this part of the discussion. Or you can start calling now at 800-433-8850. One issue, as you see it, John Townsend, is that distracted driving laws don't seem to be having an effect.

TOWNSENDWell, a study came out earlier this year from the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety, and they said that in those states where texting bans have been enacted, it seems that it hasn't had any impact immediately. And what we're saying is that...

SHERWOODWell, excuse me. But that study also says that, in some cases, there is an increase because people are trying to hide their phones while they text.

NNAMDIYes.

TOWNSENDThat's true. And both of those may be problems. We think that the way you address this is through law enforcement, and law enforcement has to become serious about this. But just like with seat belt bans or, you know, the ban on driving without a seat belt, it takes time, just like drunk driving incident...

SHERWOODStill taking time.

TOWNSENDIt takes time to change the culture. You know, it's really ironic that this study would come out and -- a week after Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood said that there was a drop in distracted driving accidents across the country last year. So you have some conflict in data. And so what we have to do is to go through that material and see what is the real truth. And apparently, after these bans are implemented, you see little effect. But after a while, people began to gradually change their behavior. Law enforcement comes up with techniques for detecting it and for enforcing the laws, and that's what we need.

SHERWOODIt used to be people would be changing the knobs on the radios. But now the newer cars have -- they have computer screens there, and you can even have a wreck while you're looking at your GPS system...

NNAMDII like that.

SHERWOOD...but you can do lots of texting and other kinds of things right on your dashboard now.

NNAMDIWell...

TOWNSENDThat's true. But what we're talking about, we're trying to quantify it and say that of all forms of distracted driving, putting on makeup may be as dangerous as putting -- I don't put on makeup when I drive, do you?

NNAMDITrying things in there. (laugh)

TOWNSENDBut I do read The Washington Post when I'm driving, only when I stop.

SHERWOODI hope you're kidding, though.

TOWNSENDI'm only kidding.

NNAMDIWell, let's take a...

TOWNSENDThe fact of the matter is -- I'm sorry, Kojo. Go ahead.

NNAMDII was gonna take it up a notch because it's my understanding that AAA's position is that the real distraction is holding a conversation...

TOWNSENDThat's true.

NNAMDI...that we have to learn to turn it off, that no phone in the car is safe.

TOWNSENDNo. That is true. The fact of the matter is that we are being lulled, and this is what will happen in Maryland with these hands-free devices. People will think they will be safe for drivers, but they won't be. The research shows there's not a dime's worth of difference between using a handheld cell phone and a hands-free device because the problem is really the conversation and not the telephone or the cell phone.

NNAMDIAnd before I ask Tom this question, explain why it's different if you're having a conversation on the phone than if you're having a conversation with the person in the passenger seat.

TOWNSENDEveryone asks this question. It's because if Tom and I are riding together, Tom is actually in the passenger seat, he's riding shotgun...

SHERWOODI'm not riding with you. You're talking dangerous.

TOWNSENDNo, no. That happened one time. I've learned my lesson. I'm a reformed person now. (laugh) I'm reformed.

SHERWOODI've seen the light.

TOWNSENDOkay.

SHERWOODAnd we're talking.

TOWNSENDYes. But as a mature person, you act as a sentinel and you're watching the road also. And so you are another set of eyes, and that lessens the danger.

NNAMDIHere's my question for you, Tom, because when I heard the AAA position, I said, that horse has left the barn. It's not coming back. No way you're gonna be able to get people to simply not talk on their cell phones while they're driving their cars. And somebody else said, that's what they said when they said people would never use seat belts either.

SHERWOODYeah, but I never actually believed the seat belt thing because the crashes and the test dummies that they would show and all that, I always thought that there would be that. I think the fact is our mobile communicating devices -- you're not just talking but texting and doing everything else -- we will have those in cars. It's not -- I don't -- do you see a ban on those types of things in cars at all where you...

NNAMDIAt any point?

SHERWOODI just don't see it because -- I mean, sales people, social people, reporters like me, I mean we're going to do something texting-wise. It seems to me you're -- that's an uphill battle that you're not gonna win.

TOWNSENDI think the legislation will catch up with the technology. It has to.

SHERWOODI think...

TOWNSENDThis is a dangerous form of driving.

SHERWOODI mean, we -- you can't get people to stop, you know, at crosswalks to let people cross. I mean, they're gonna be texting endlessly.

TOWNSENDBut we're saying that you have an impact because the number of traffic fatalities has decreased.

SHERWOODWhat about (unintelligible) Just tougher penalties? Will that do it?

TOWNSENDWell, maybe tougher penalties. The District of Columbia, if you're caught talking on a cell phone, it's a $100 fine. In Maryland, if’s only a $50 fine the first time and then it goes up the second time you're caught to $100. But for many people, that's a slap on the hand.

SHERWOODI was mad -- is there time for one more comment on this?

NNAMDISure.

SHERWOODI stopped down the town at 14th and Pennsylvania to actually text someone. And two Secret Service officers on bicycles rode up and wanted to -- wondered what I was doing 'cause I was in my car looking down. And they thought -- what's he doing? And when I told them, I'm actually just stopping so I can text, you know, safely, they thanked me and said that's a great thing. Then they (unintelligible)

TOWNSENDSo you actually pulled off the side of the road.

SHERWOODI pulled off the side of the road so I -- 'cause I -- you know...

TOWNSENDThat's the way it should be done in the District.

NNAMDII was talking about the campaign that I've been seeing in the District, and I can't find my notes on it. But there's a campaign in which you see some -- a terrible crash, and then you see that somebody was texting and the last text they sent was OMG, meaning oh, my God, just before the crash. Do you think campaigns like that are effective?

TOWNSENDI think that would be an effective campaign. You really have to drive home the point about how dangerous this is. And I think people underestimate -- you know, when we ask people, what do you fear the most on the highway? It used to be a drunk driver. Now, the plurality of drivers say they fear a distracted driving -- driver, rather -- and especially someone who's texting behind the wheel.

SHERWOODAnd they fear it, even though they do it themselves.

TOWNSENDThat's the great hypocrisy of this. We're such a nation of hypocrites, aren't we?

NNAMDIHere's...

TOWNSENDWe always...

NNAMDIPlease go ahead.

TOWNSENDNo, we loathe it when it occurs in someone else, but we do it ourselves.

NNAMDIHere's David in Hanover, Md. David, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

DAVIDOh hi, Kojo. Thanks for having me on. There's another matter the -- another law that was passed that went into effect today. The -- allowing drivers -- needing to allow 3 feet of distance between them as they pass cyclists.

NNAMDIThat's the Tom Sherwood law. Yes.

DAVIDI want to hear -- (laugh) Yeah, exactly. And I want to hear what the AAA's position was on that and whether the AAA would consider doing advocacy programs such that the -- you know, they put out the word that they are really behind this. Because, you know, as an avid cyclist who puts in, you know, 5,000 to 7,000 miles a year, I'm kind of at the point of getting tired of people who think it's okay to buzz me at 50 miles an hour, 6 inches from my elbow.

NNAMDIDavid, if you think it's a good law, you should also hear this e-mail from Greg before Tom -- John Townsend responds, "Don't let your listeners get too excited about the new cycling law in Maryland. The 3-foot law is only applicable in certain instances. When there is no bike lane or usable shoulder on a road, but at the same time there's not enough room on that road to pass a cyclist without crossing a double yellow line, the law does not apply. Also, if there's a shoulder, almost regardless of its condition, the law doesn't apply. With those exceptions and others, bicyclists remain unprotected on many of the roads that are popular for two-wheeled commuters." Now, your turn, John Townsend.

TOWNSENDWell, I think it's a good law. But again, with many pieces of legislation and with law that are enacted, this is only the beginning. But it recognizes the growing importance of cyclists in our area and the fact that their numbers are increasing, and we have to share the road with them. So we support this law. We support bike lanes. We support bike paths. We think that biking is becoming a real presence in our society, as it should be.

SHERWOODDo you believe that bicyclists and pedestrians have equal access to the roadways as much as vehicles?

TOWNSENDI think they should. I think the road should be open to all users.

NNAMDIWell, Fairfax, Va., as we pointed out earlier, has no law against using a cell phone while driving. But Fairfax County this week launched a campaign. They're doing this as a distracted driving offense. Can you tell us about that public service campaign?

TOWNSENDI think it's a great campaign. I know the officers who are involved in it. And they were the first in our region to recognize that the telltale signs of distracted driving.

SHERWOODWhat's the campaign?

TOWNSENDThe crackdown on cell phone use as a form of distracted driving. And...

SHERWOODAnd where they check on the immigration status of people when they stop them?

NNAMDIIt depends, I guess, on which county they happen to be in. (laugh) Probably not if not they're in Arlington County.

SHERWOODWell, we're talking about Fairfax County.

TOWNSENDOkay.

NNAMDIBut they had one of their police officers on video. Tell us about what you saw.

TOWNSENDRight. And you can see the telltale signs, and it's almost as if the person is drunk behind the wheel because there's weaving, there's drifting into other lanes, there's this recklessness and carelessness that you see with drunk drivers, so the patterns are about the same. And that's how officers recognize whether a person is a distracted driver or not. He mimics or imitates the reactions of a drunk driver.

NNAMDIYup. The police officer on video 'cause he's been trying to navigate a course set with orange cones and sharp turns while on a cell phone to illustrate how impaired a driver is while on the phone, and that's how police track down distracted drivers. They see weaving, et cetera and they say, that person is not necessarily drunk. That person is probably holding a cell phone way down under so that we can't see it.

SHERWOODRight.

TOWNSEND(unintelligible)

SHERWOODAnd you cannot just be simply driving too slowly in a given circumstance, which is also dangerous.

TOWNSENDRight.

NNAMDIAnd I'm afraid that's about all the time we have. John Townsend, thank you...

TOWNSENDThank you.

NNAMDI...very much for joining us.

TOWNSENDThank you.

NNAMDIJohn Townsend is the manager of public and government relations for AAA Mid-Atlantic. Tom Sherwood is our resident analyst. He's an NBC4 reporter and a columnist for the Current Newspapers. Going up to see the Redskins play Philadelphia (unintelligible)

SHERWOODNo, I'm trying to whether I'm going to sit in my living room and watch of if I'm just gonna go ride my bike safely without a cell phone.

NNAMDIYou don't have to work, there's demonstrations this weekend.

SHERWOODI'm gonna ride my bike to the demonstrations, too. I don't work on weekends unless -- if I work on a weekend, you know it's really bad.

NNAMDINote to Tom Sherwood's boss at channel 4, make him cover that demonstration on Saturday. Thank you all...

SHERWOODGo 'Skins.

NNAMDIThank you all for listening. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.