KOJO NNAMDIYou're tuned in to The Kojo Nnamdi Show on WAMU 88.5. Welcome. Later in the broadcast we'll be talking to the D.C. Chef behind Kith/Kin, Kwame Onwuachi about his next project. And on today's "Kojo for Kids" we'll blast off with Astronaut, yes, a real astronaut, Stanley Love. So stick around for that, and remember, adults can listen, but only kids can call in. But first, this weekend we lost a major figure, civil rights legend and 17 term Congressman John Lewis passed away on July 18 at the age of 80 after a six month battle with pancreatic cancer.

KOJO NNAMDIBack in 2017, I sat down with John Lewis at the Library of Congress to talk about the publication of the graphic novel series about his life. The trilogy is called "March." And it was co-authored by Andrew Aydin. Here's an exert from that conversation with John Lewis.

KOJO NNAMDICongressman Lewis, you've been tireless in your work not just on this book, but in talking about it with students, with librarians, with journalists. You gave a very moving speech in accepting the National Book Award. What does the recognition this work has received mean to you?

JOHN LEWISWell, thank you. First of all, Kojo, it's good to see you, brother.

NNAMDIAlways a pleasure.

LEWISIt's always good to see you. And thank you for all the good and great things that you continue to do. It's good to be here at the Library of Congress. Good to see all you beautiful, handsome young people. You look so wonderful. You look so smart. When I go and speak about this book, I turn to pages and see certain drawings, images, it takes me back to another part of my life. You know, from reading "March" book one, book two, book three, I grew up in rural Alabama 50 miles from Montgomery outside of a little place called Troy. So when I received the honor along with Andrew Aydin and Nate Powell I was lost for words. It took me back to rural Alabama in 1956, when I was 16 years old with some of my brothers and sisters and cousins.

LEWISWe went to a little library to try to get a library card trying to check out some books. And we were told by the librarian that the library was for whites only and not for coloreds. I didn't go back to that library until many many years later. By this time I'm in the Congress for a book signing, so hundreds of blacks and white citizens showed up. And after the book signing after we had some refreshment, they gave me a library card.

NNAMDIWell, I'm glad you finally got your library card.

LEWISYes.

NNAMDIYou know, reading these books, one discovers that you often went against the grain of what others in the movement were doing or wanted to do, skipping the signing ceremony for the Civil Rights Act, keeping the protests going when the so-called big six asked you not to, going ahead with the aforementioned Selma to Montgomery, when others in SNCC were against it. And you talk a lot about this idea of good trouble, about standing up for what's right even when it's not popular, when it's not easy. Where did you get that strength from? What do you want these young people to know about the notion of good trouble? It may be just as important, how do you know you're getting into the good kind of trouble and not the bad kind?

LEWISWell, it's very simple. When I was growing up and would visit the little town of Troy, visit Montgomery. Troy is about 10 miles from where I grew up. You go downtown Troy you see the signs that say white and colored. You go to a movie on a Saturday afternoon, all of us little black children had to go upstairs to the balcony. And all the white children were downstairs. I would come home and ask my mother, my father, my grandparents, "Why? Why?" And they were, "That's the way it is. Don't get in trouble." But I heard of Rosa Parks when I was 15 years old. And I met Rosa Parks when I was 17. I heard of Dr. King when I was 15 years old. And I met him when I was 18. It changed my mind. And I was inspired to get in what I call good trouble, necessary trouble. And I've been getting in trouble ever since.

LEWISIt's very simple to me. When you see something that is not right, not fair, not just, you have an obligation to say something and do something. We cannot afford to be silent, because if we're silent people think you like being mistreated. You have to resist and say, "That's not right. That's not fair. That's not just."

NNAMDILet's talk a little bit about why this project took the shape that it did as a graphic novel. When did you first encounter a comic that spoke to the civil rights movement?

LEWISIn late 1957 or either early 1958, I remember reading a comic book called "Martin Luther King, Jr." in the Montgomery Story. It sold for 10 cents. And Andrew will tell you through his research he discovered that Dr. King helped edit this book. This book became like a roadmap for those of us that got involved in the American civil rights movement. It told the story of Montgomery. It spoke about the way of peace, the way of love, the philosophy of non-violence, how people organized. And people walked, shared rides in cars, church buses rather than ride segregated buses in Montgomery. In Montgomery during the 50s black and white people couldn't be seated together on a city bus.

LEWISEven here in Washington D.C. in 1961 during the freedom rides black people and white people couldn't be seated together leaving Washington to travel through Virginia or North Carolina or South Carolina or Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi. So public transportation whether the train or buses had been a means of carrying the story in the way of the civil rights movement. And helped to bring down those signs that say, "White waiting" "Color waiting," "White men," "Colored men," "White women," "Colored women." And I say to young people all the time, growing up today you won't see those signs on a bus or on a train or a waiting room. The only place that you see those signs today will be in a book, in a museum or on a video. They're gone.

LEWISAnd it's my hope they will never ever return.

NNAMDIThis trilogy begins as a reflection on the eve of President's Obama's inauguration, a reflection on the work you did during the civil rights movement, and it ends more to come here. Are we in a period now where we're seeing that there's more work to be done here?

LEWISIn America today, right now people are saying, "Where are we going as a nation and as a people? Are we going backward? Are we going to standstill or whether we're going to go forward?" I think "March" tells us all that we've come a distance. We made a lot of progress, but there are forces that want to slow us down or take us back. And we would like for people to be hopeful, to be optimistic and to understand that we're one people. That it doesn't matter whether we're black or white, Latino, Asian American or Native American. We all live in the same house not just the American house, but the world house.

LEWISThere was a man by the name of A. Philip Randolph that we speak about, because he was the man who called together the march on Washington. And he used to say from time to time, "Maybe our foremothers and our forefathers all came to this great land in different ships. But we're all in the same boat now. We have to look out for each other and care for each other." And Dr. King said on one occasion and he said it so beautifully that, "We must learn to live together as one family, as one people, if not we will parish as fools." And I think this is the message that we try to convey in "March."

NNAMDICongressman Lewis, today we see a lot of energy, a lot of young people, who would like to effect change. But there have been those who say that these current movements lack direction and they lack leadership and cohesion. Some of the things that people said about SNCC back in 1960 as I recall. What is your hope for what these books and for what you can teach this younger generation of activists and protestors?

LEWISWell, it is my hope that these books boil down to these books being a roadmap, a blueprint. You know, during the '60s, I got arrested a few times, 40 times, and since I've been in Congress, another five times. My last arrest this young man had to -- I left my money some place. So he had to lend me a few dollars to get out of -- to be released. The last arrest took place a short distance from here, over on the Capitol ground with 200 people, 8 members of Congress. We were trying to get the Speaker of House to bring forth a comprehensive immigration reform bill.

LEWISWe had brought the bill to the floor of the House. Almost every single member on our side of the aisle would have voted for it and we would have picked up enough members from the other side and we would have passed it, and President Barack Obama would have signed it into law. It doesn't make sense for us to have millions of people, especially young people, children living in fear that something is going to happen to them or to their parents or grandparents. We should set people on the path to citizenship.

LEWISWhen the Pope came and spoke to a judge session on the Congress he said, "We're all immigrants. We all come from some other place." And that will probably be the great debate in the days to come. None of us are really free until all of us are free.

NNAMDIThat was from my conversation with Congressman and civil rights icon John Lewis recorded at the Library of Congress back in 2017. Congressman Lewis passed away on Saturday. May he rest in peace. We're going to take a short break and then we'll be back with Chef Kwame Onwuachi.