KOJO NNAMDIFrom WAMU 88.5 at American University in Washington, welcome to The Politics Hour starring Tom Sherwood. I'm Kojo Nnamdi. Tom Sherwood is our Resident Analyst. He's a contributing writer for Washington City Paper. Tom Sherwood, welcome.

TOM SHERWOODGood afternoon, everyone.

NNAMDILaterin the broadcast we'll be talking with Nancy Navarro, Member of the Montgomery County Council and Libby Garvey, Chair of the Arlington County Board, but first up, Luke Broadwater, a Reporter for The Baltimore Sun joins us by telephone. Luke Broadwater, thank you for joining us.

LUKE BROADWATERThanks for having me. Good afternoon.

NNAMDIWe're having Luke on to talk about the special primary to fill the empty 7th Congressional seat in Maryland. It's just four days away, Tuesday, February 4th. That was the seat that was occupied by the late Congressman Elijah Cummings. Luke, it is my understanding that the race is not only pretty crowded, 32 candidates, right?

BROADWATERYeah. The 32, 24 Republicans and -- I'm sorry, 24 Democrats and eight Republicans.

NNAMDIWho are the major candidates?

BROADWATERYes. Some of the major candidates include the former Congressman and NAACP Kweisi Mfume, who is very well known in Baltimore and has a long track record here. Maya Rockeymoore Cummings.

NNAMDIA man who claimed he made it in politics, because he heard me with an African name on the radio and so he thought he could be voted for with an African name also. But, go ahead, please. He was also a talk radio host before. But go ahead.

BROADWATERYes. He was. And he's a very smooth orator and, you know, really impresses crowds with fine speeches almost wherever he goes. Maya Rockeymoore Cummings is another leading candidate. She is the widow of Former Congressman Cummings and the former head of the Maryland's Democratic Party. I keep Republicans. Another major candidate is State Senator Jill Carter who has a lot of support from the progressive wing of the party, has lots of volunteers out knocking doors for her. There are a couple of pretty well known state delegates. Terri Hill and Talmadge Branch and a law professor who is spending a ton of his own money, hundreds of thousands of dollars named Michael Higginbotham, who is running lots of television ads as well.

SHERWOODLuke, let me ask you about him. The Baltimore Sun has a really good piece on him in the morning paper. You've been doing -- the paper has been doing profiles of all the various major candidates. He's a lawyer, but where did he get so much money he can put half a million -- I mean, $500,000 into a campaign in such short notice?

BROADWATERHe was a lawyer in private practice. They -- depending on your, you know, field of work lawyers can make a good amount of money. My best friend is a lawyer in New York and he makes like $2 million a year. And I always wonder why I didn't -- went into journalism.

NNAMDIIs that why you keep him as a best friend?

BROADWATERSo he -- but Michael Higginbotham is somebody who, you know, is a single man. He lives in downtown Baltimore. He has accumulated wealth throughout his life. And is now a law professor and has this money on hand that he can spend. So he's loaned himself $500,000 for the campaign, which he's blowing through. He's certainly going to need it, because he does next to zero name recognition. No one has ever voted for him before whereas some of these other candidates like I mentioned, State Senator Carter or Congressman Mfume -- former Congressman Mfume do have track records of actually getting votes out of Baltimore.

SHERWOODMaya Rockeymoore Cummings, the widow, she resigned as the Chairman of the state party to run this race. I've her fundraising appeals I'm on her email list. They sound pretty desperate sometimes, but I know candidates do that. Is there any sense -- is she in the top tier, the top three, top five in this crowded field?

BROADWATERI think people think of her as a top tier candidate, yes. I mean, she has -- one thing she has certainly going for her is the last name Cummings. There will be I think a certain number of people who go to the polls and say, I want to vote for a Cummings. She also in her own right has a long record of policy experience although mainly in D.C. And a lot of her network -- if you look at her fundraising report she has a lot of money from national interests and D.C. interests. So the key for her is to convince the average Baltimore voter that she is somebody from Baltimore and she has their interests at heart and she's not just a national figure coming in.

SHERWOODI don't know if you mentioned him or not. Harry Spikes who's a long time staff person with Congressman Cummings. He's gotten the support of some of the Cummings family. The daughter from his first marriage. He seems to be somebody. Is he well known enough and does he have enough money?

BROADWATERSo Harry Spikes, you're right. He is beloved by members of the Cummings family. He was the congressman's long time aid. And he has the endorsed of both of Elijah Cummings's daughters and one of Elijah Cummings's sisters. That said he is not well known in Baltimore, because he's been a staffer. He's been behind the scenes and he doesn't have a ton of money. I believe he only had a pretty small fundraising haul. So there's a big ask for him to get his name out there, but Elijah's sister did tell me on the phone that she's personally working the polls for him. So everybody she comes in contact with she's going to be encouraging them to vote for Harry.

SHERWOODKey question. Key question real quick. On election night next Tuesday, which campaign headquarters will you be?

BROADWATEROh, that's a good question. So I cover the General Assembly, so I'm not sure.

SHERWOODThey're not going to drag you into that? I thought they would.

BROADWATERSo, I mean, I've been obviously writing a lot of the congressional stories as well. But I think I'll probably be in Annapolis and maybe I'll just drive down to whoever looks like they're going to win.

NNAMDIThere are eight Republicans in this race. And a Republican has never represented that district. Any chance any one of the Republican candidates have here?

BROADWATERIt's a hard -- it's an uphill climb for Republicans. The district is I believe 4 to 1 Democrats. The Republican, who's making the most noise for herself is a woman named Kim Klacik and I do see a fair amount of yard signs up for her. She rose to viral fame by trashing Elijah Cummings' district on Fox News. And, you know, it really caught on and it sparked Donald Trump's attacks on the City of Baltimore. In her own right, she has -- she is a member of the Baltimore County -- one of the Baltimore County Central Committees and she doesn't live in the district right now. But did say she would move into the district if she wins.

SHERWOODLet me ask you one more question about this. The death of Elijah Cummings was a big blow to Baltimore and the State of Maryland, because of his influence in Congress. But since then Baltimore now has the State Senate President, Bill Ferguson and Baltimore County has the House Speaker, Adrienne Jones. What can we expect out of -- for Baltimore out of the State Assembly this year? Are we going to see anything new to help that city with all its troubles?

BROADWATERYeah, I know a lot of people in the Baltimore area are hopeful by the new Senate President and the new Speaker of the House. Already we've seen some deals for -- to expand the Howard Street Tunnel. That's working along. There's going to be -- that scene is very key to the Port of Baltimore. We're going to see likely a deal to keep the Preakness in the City of Baltimore. I understand there may be a crime package coming of legislation or support to help fight crime in Baltimore. And, of course, we have the Kirwan Commission recommendations, which a lot of people see as -- would be a boost to Baltimore schools. So there are quite a few things I think these new leaders are working on.

NNAMDIWell, we'll have to see what happens on Tuesday. Luke Broadwater, thank you for joining us.

BROADWATERThank you.

NNAMDILuke Broadwater is a Reporter for The Baltimore Sun. Joining us in studio now Nancy Navarro. She's a member of the Montgomery County Council representing district 4. She's a Democrat. Nancy Navarro, thank you for joining us.

NANCY NAVARROThank you so much for having me.

NNAMDIIf you have questions or comments for the councilmember start calling now. Tom Sherwood, D.C. Councilmember -- former D.C. Councilmember Jack Evans resigned just a few days ago, a little more than a week. He has already filed for reelection and that has resulted in a chorus of denunciations both from all of his former colleagues on the Council who actually sent an email indicating their dissatisfaction with it. And a whole lot of people have been weighing in saying Jack Evans does not need to do this. He should be gone. This is arrogant. He has done it so quickly after he resigned. Yet there is a feeling that given the number of people, who are in that race in Ward 2 that Jack Evans may have a chance.

SHERWOODYes, the 12 councilmembers, who are in the Council now wrote a letter separate from their official duties. Phil Mendelson, the Chairman, send it out on his personal private email where they all said it was willful and arrogant disregard for ethics for Jack Evans to get back into the race. As we reported last week, you know, he picked up petitions to run. And Martin Austermuhle of WAMU reported just a short time ago that yesterday Jack Evans filed his official campaign documents to be an official candidate. He is going to run a public finance campaign.

SHERWOODHe has told people privately that he's going to collect $50 donations from a number of people, hundreds of people he believes. And for each $50 donation he'll get $250 in city tax money to run the public campaign. And that he says he's in it and he wants the voters of Ward 2 to decide whether his almost 30 years of service is more important than the ethics violations he has and which he has apologized for.

SHERWOODNow, here's the deal. These 12 councilmembers I heard they were going to do an even tougher letter saying that if he got elected that they would not give him -- they would vote not to give him a committee and that some would restart a BEGA, the Board of Ethics investigation and possibly vote to expel him.

NNAMDIWe'll have to see what happens then. Now, two stories about young people, liberation for kids in the District and in Baltimore in different ways in the District. D.C. Police can no longer handcuff suspects, who are under the age of 12. There's been a lot of publicity recent, photos showing the young kids in handcuffs by D.C. Police. And in Maryland, kids who run lemonade stands will no longer be subject to a fine if they don't have a temporary license. So kids can now under this proposed legislation be able to run lemonade stands in Maryland. I think it was in Montgomery County as a matter of fact that kids who were running a lemonade stand were fined.

SHERWOODThe investigator fined the grandparent actually the $500. That was about a year ago, but part of this is that we're moving from the era of scared straight were police and investigators are to intimidate young people and others to behaving to doing what actually smart police forces do, which is deescalate situations. Now there may be an occasion in this new provision under Peter Newsham the Chief of Police in the District, where you're 13 to 18 -- there can be occasions is someone is really acting out where they may hurt themselves or hurt others, you may handcuff them. But the issue here is to, for young children particularly, find the guardian, find the parent, find someone in the community and not put a criminal record on people so early in their lives and try to deescalate situations not show to always be -- have a show of force.

NNAMDIAnd Nancy Navarro, do you approve of the proposed legislation that would get rid of the statute that says kids, who are running lemonade stands have to have a license in order to do that?

NAVARROYeah. Absolutely. There's no doubt.

SHERWOODSome people are saying, though, you know, the state should not be telling the counties, 24, 26 counties in the state how to run a business. This should be decided as a local issue not a statewide issue.

NAVARROYeah, you know, I mean, we obviously always try to make sure that we retain our authority to do things. Yet there are at times particular legislation and laws that are in place that just don't make sense.

SHERWOODHave you ever done a lemonade stand when you were a child or maybe for a campaign thing?

BROADWATERYou know, I didn't, but I think my daughters may have hosted with another neighbor a lemonade stand.

SHERWOODSo you're admitting that you have violated the law.

NAVARROMy daughters did. But, you know, that's on them.

NNAMDIIf you have questions or comments for Nancy Navarro call now, 800-433-8850. You have wrapped up your yearlong term as President of the County Council. This past Sunday you were inducted into the Montgomery County Women's History Archives for your contributions to the County, but right now you're still the only woman on the Montgomery County Council. Why do you think that is?

NAVARROYou know, I mean, as I said during this induction, it's an honor, but it's also just very disappointed with regards to this. You know, I don't think it's easy. People underestimate how hard it is to run campaigns and, you know, to raise money and to do all of those things. And we're trying to make it easier through our public campaign finance and, you know, really rooming and doing everything possible. I have a feeling that, you know, 2022 is going to be a different year and I'm going to do everything possible to make sure that qualified, amazing women get a chance to join the Council, because it's very important to have this voice there as well.

SHERWOODAt a time Adrienne Jones is the Speaker of the House and over in Virginia Eileen Filler-Corn is the Speaker of the House, significant people are running for governor and is there anybody you would like to see running for governor? Maybe you? Don't laugh if I mention your name. I mean, this is the time. We're in generational and some of the old shackles of men always being ahead of women are being broken left and right.

NAVARROI have to tell you. I, you know, have a lot of interest still in serving in public office. There's no doubt. And that it really has to do with the honor that it is and also the opportunities that exist. But most of all the fact that we really have a lot of work to do still. So I'm evaluating, you know, what would be the best space for me. But there is no doubt that we're at a time when there's still a lot of work that needs to be done.

NNAMDIYour signature bill was the Racial Equity and Social Justice Act. It's a broad, ambitious piece of legislation that includes creating and Office of Racial Equity in the county government requiring all 8,000 plus government employees to complete racial equity training. What were the problems you were seeing in Montgomery County government that led you to introduce this legislation?

SHERWOODAnd may I add, I watched Marc Elrich's a year -- his State of the County speech just a couple of weeks ago. And he mentioned that and particularly mentioned you. He said he supported that, but it was your bill thing at the beginning. So he supported it. So as Kojo asked, what does it really mean?

NAVARROYou know, the impetus for this bill as far as I was concerned was just watching the growth in the county vis-a-vis the population and realizing how diverse we are. You know, it's not just a black and white county. It's a county that has, you know, over 100 different languages spoken in the school system. And the more that you see diversity, the more that you continue to track patterns in terms of disparities and as a legislator and as somebody who gets to approve budgets, I feel that it is really important fiscally to understand whether your investments are actually closing these gaps, right.

NAVARROIf you don't have data that you can track in a methodical way, then how do you really know? You may have good intentions and you may be investing in all kinds of interventions. But if you're not able to track that it is very difficult. And so that was really the impetus of this particular legislation. It really is about data. And it's about having an impact note with every legislation and every budgetary decision.

SHERWOODThe District has Kenya McDuffie in Ward 5 in the District it proposed its Racial Equity Act in this city, the poeple in Virginia proposed it. It's a concrete example of what it would mean -- racial equity when you come up to a policy of widening a road, building a new fire station or something like that, who is underserved?

NAVARROYeah. Absolutely.

SHERWOODHow does it work?

NAVARROWell, you know, right now the way it works is that it depends on whose sitting in these seats. If you're very interested or if you believe you that you represent, you know, a district where you have a lot of disparities maybe you do a lot of advocacy. I believe that this should be a matter of fact as how we decide policy and we decide how to invest. So if you do know that you have a concentration of poverty in a particular area and you see how these disparities continue to put pressures on your budget and the outcomes for that community then through that data you're able to make decisions, right?

NAVARROThat perhaps this is where you need to start a particular initiative if you're going to do a phase in or something. You know, those types of things and so, again, for me it's most this discipline of using data to understand how our decisions as legislators and also our taxpayers, how taxpayers money are invested. That's why.

SHERWOODGood. The big picture issue is the recent report that Prince George's County has surpassed Montgomery County in creating jobs. While some jobs in Montgomery may pay more, but Prince George's was farther behind. Angela Alsobrooks, County Executive, has been pointing out that it is now ahead of Montgomery County. While there has been a lot of debate with Marc Elrich's campaign in the Council about what is Montgomery going to do to keep growing to get the revenues to do the kinds of things governments want to do to help people. Both Montgomery and Prince George's County are falling behind the extraordinary growth in Northern Virginia. So are you going to fix that?

NAVARROWell, I can tell you that right before I ended my presidency one of the things I did was introduce what I called an economic development platform identifying four quadrants that are very important in terms of policy and they're all interconnected. So we're talking about transportation, housing. We're talking about workforce development and also business attraction retention and expansion, because it's so critical to have also an understanding of what is our strategic vision and how we're going to implement those. And county council committees right now are working on identifying the gaps and the opportunities in each of those quadrants for actions plans.

NAVARROAnd so I think that is that start in terms of having an opportunity to assess where we are and where the potential is. Montgomery County has a lot of assets and a lot of amazing opportunities. I feel like in some ways became complaisant because we have so many assets. But we can't. And I've been saying this, you know, all throughout my presidential year to my colleagues that we have got to be very hungry. We have to be very aggressive and we have to be able to address those barriers wherever they exist.

NNAMDIGot to take a short break. Our guest is Nancy Navarro. She's a Member of the Montgomery County Council, representing District 4. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.

NNAMDIWelcome back. Our guest is Nancy Navarro. She's a Member of the Montgomery County Council, representing District 4. She's a Democrat. A Twitter account called derwoodmaryland tweets: Marc Elrich has designed relocation of the Montgomery County Public School Bus Depot a top priority for the Department of General Services in order to complete the long-delayed smart growth of the Shady Grove sector in the heart of Montgomery County. This designation is largely, if not completely the result of community advocacy. What are you, Nancy Navarro, doing to support this priority toward finally completing this long-expected and overdue growth of the Shady Grove sector?

NAVARROYeah. So, actually, I am having conversation to set a meeting with the executive last week. This is one of the items on my list. He did say to me that they have identified some very positive potential sites. They have some conversations going on with the City of Rockville to make sure they can iron all those details. And he will be making announcement very soon. And all of us, I believe, in the County Council are eager to move this forward because it is a very critical component of our transit-oriented development.

SHERWOODDuring his campaign to be executive, some people accused him of being anti-development, too much of a NIMBY-type person, whether it's cell towers or other matters of things. He says he has worked hard in this past year to reach out to the business community, small businesses. How would you characterize, politically, how the former councilmember, now county executive has done in his first year? And what would you like to see a little more emphasis on?

NAVARROWell, you know --

SHERWOODAnd you only get two minutes.

NAVARROThe first year was -- I think it was tough. I mean, there was a big transition. You know, I, as president, had to oversee over 20 appointments. I mean, it was in my opinion --

SHERWOODThe police chief thing we don't --

NAVARROWe don't even -- that would be another show. But it -- definitely, I think, you know, it's been a tough year with all the transition both on the executive side, as well as the County Council. But, you know, I think he understands very well what we have to do. I think the County Council is always, you know, willing to be a partner and to move all of these areas forward. I will say that the County Council is also unanimously committed to this issue of economic development. So, we're doing our part, and wherever possible, you know, the idea is to work collaboratively, because it's all about moving this agenda forward.

NNAMDIThis is a grizzly and tragic context in which to talk about your community policing bill. But a Prince George's County officer has just been charged with the murder of an unarmed man in a police car. You introduced your community policing bill that would set reporting requirements for the Montgomery County Police Department, as well as more general policing guidelines. What are you trying to do with this bill, because there has been reporting about the troubled relationship between the Montgomery County Police and members of the community, in general, and African American and Hispanic members of the community in particular? What would this piece of legislation do?

NAVARROWell, all throughout particularly the search of the Chief of Police, there were many community forums. This notion of community policing kept coming up over and over again. In conversations even with the FOP, they said to me, "Listen, we really don't have community policing, even though we say we do." And so it occurred to me that, you know, maybe it's important then to define exactly what it is the Montgomery County Police Department considers to be community policing, and that this needs to be a central part of we do community policing. There have been some, you know, feedback from members of the community regarding the school resource officer inclusion in this bill, which is something that my colleague, Craig Rice, feels very strongly about. And we'll work through committee, but I think --

NNAMDIAre you saying he feels very strongly about it? I should say that people were protesting language in the bill that wants to, quoting here, "expand the school resource officer program in recognition of its value to the community." Opponents were saying that kids needs counselors, not cops.

NAVARROYeah, and we do need more counselors. But, you know, I'm also hearing from segments of the community where you have issues with, for example, gang recruitment, even in middle schools, where school resource officers have played a very important role. And so it is one of those notions, where there's no doubt that training is important. And we do have an MOU that, you know, we could also expand in terms of training and things like that.

NAVARROBut school resource officers can play a very important role in those instances, as well. So, we'll work through the committee to see where there could be some amendments. But I think, overall, it would be a very important piece of legislation for the county.

SHERWOODIn many ways, the school resource officers, it's their first contact with some of these young people in terms of police, if they're there to help and deescalate and not just enforce. But let me ask you, because all of my biking friends will go crazy if I don't ask about the Capital Crescent Trail tunnel. It's not still -- Elrich has not put it in his budget.

SHERWOODFor people who don’t know, this is an important passageway through the heart of Bethesda, which is becoming the downtown community every day. And are you for, or is the council for or against building this tunnel which would take traffic, pedestrian, bike and other traffic off of -- so you don't have to cross Wisconsin Avenue? Is it going to be in -- the Purple Line has disrupted the old place. So, is there going to be a new tunnel or is there not?

NAVARROWell, you know, the previous council was very supportive of this. Obviously, now, we have the CIP, and we need to know...

SHERWOODWhat is that?

NAVARROThe Crescent...

SHERWOODThe CIP (unintelligible) ...

NAVARROOh, I'm sorry, this is the Capital budget... (laugh)

SHERWOOD...Capital Improvement -- okay, right.

NAVARRO...the Capital Improvement Program budget, which is everything that -- and right now, we are in a year when we have to look at the six-year, you know, Capital Improvement Program. So, we're going to be looking at that. Obviously, it's a big...

SHERWOOD(overlapping) Is it too expensive? Initially, it was told it was going to be 15 to 25 million. Some people are now saying $50 million.

NAVARROIt's a big-ticket item, yeah. So, it is difficult when...

SHERWOODIs it still on the...

NAVARRO...the executive doesn't include it, because then, you know, the council has to take a look and see. But so, we're going to work through that. I know that my colleague, Andrew Friedson, obviously is, you know, very interested in this.

SHERWOOD(overlapping) This is his number-one capital (unintelligible). Some people have said, look, when one person gets killed, a bicyclist or a pedestrian gets killed on Wisconsin Avenue at that very busy intersection near Woodmont and Elm, then you'll build a tunnel.

NAVARROWell, like I said, the council was always, you know, supportive of this. So, we'll see what happens through our own process.

NNAMDICouncil's considering a bill, speaking of bikes, that would repeal the mandatory bike registration provision in the county law. (laugh). This measure follows an incident last year...

SHERWOODFree lemonade with each registration.

NNAMDI...in which a Silver Spring activist was pulled over by two activists for running a stop sign and issued a criminal citation as a misdemeanor. But where do you fall on this legislation? I did not even know that bicycles (laugh) had to be registered in Montgomery County.

NAVARRO(overlapping) Yeah, unfortunately, there are probably more of these types of, you know, laws that are very outdated. You know, the entire council has cosponsored this legislation.

NNAMDI(overlapping) No. Outdated, you've said it all. Maryland lawmakers (laugh) are pushing a bill that would give county governments veto power over new toll roads and bridges through their communities. Do you support that bill, and what do you think of the chances of it passing?

NAVARROWe're debating this right now. You know, there are some issues with that, as well.

SHERWOODWhat do you think?

NAVARROI really still -- I'm still trying to figure out where I stand with this. I understand that it's good to have this local authority and, you know, say. I also realize that...

NNAMDIOn the other hand, nothing might ever get built. (laugh)

NAVARRO...there are times when you need things to move forward. So, you know, there are pros and cons, but I'm still weighing those.

SHERWOODBefore your time's up here, we've got to talk about one good thing.

NNAMDI(overlapping) Which is one minute.

SHERWOODThe General Assembly has overridden the governor's veto of the Dreamer's Act that will allow dreamers, who are unregistered undocumented immigrants in the state, to go to four-year institutions and not have to go to two-year institutions first. How many people would this affect? Is this a big deal or a small deal?

NAVARROThis would be a big deal, especially for Montgomery County. And, you know, I support this 100 percent. I think it's a wonderful thing that the General Assembly has done. And it will only give opportunities to these young people who we've already invested in, in terms of public education, and can be members of our workforce and really move things forward. So, I think it's a wonderful development.

SHERWOODImportant, in-state tuition prices, not out-of-state prices, which that's important, too.

NAVARROYeah, exactly.

NNAMDINancy Navarro is a member of the Montgomery County Council, representing Ward 4. She -- representing District 4. She is a Democrat. Congratulations, once again, on your induction into the Montgomery County Women's History Archives.

NAVARROThank you. Thank you so much.

NNAMDIAnd thank you for joining us. We're going to take a short break. When we come back, Libby Garvey, Chair of the Arlington County board. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.

NNAMDIWelcome back. Joining us is Libby Garvey. She is chair of the Arlington County board. She is a Democrat. Libby Garvey, thank you so much for joining us.

LIBBY GARVEYOh, it's great to be back with you guys. Thank you.

NNAMDIIf you have questions or comments, call now: 800-433-8850. Have you endorsed anyone yet for president?

GARVEYI have not.

SHERWOODDo you have somebody in mind?

GARVEYI have two favorites that I've had all along -- and I think I'm typical of a whole group of people -- Pete Buttigieg and Elizabeth Warren. And I'm leaning on Elizabeth, for what it's worth.

NNAMDIWell, the mayor of the District of Columbia has endorsed Michael Bloomberg for president. It is not exactly a surprise, Tom Sherwood, because her so-called mentor, Adrian Fenty, was close to Bloomberg. And this mayor has also, it is my understanding, been fairly close to the former mayor of New York.

SHERWOODShe's been in touch with him. You know, as the former mayor of New York, he has a lot of connections with mayors around the country. He's been endorsed by a number of them. But, you know, you're correct. The city's connection to Michael Bloomberg goes back to when Adrian Fenty and his Chief of Staff John Falcicchio -- who happens to be also Mayor Bowser's Chief of Staff -- you know, went up to New York and looked to see how Bloomberg arranged his office and how he did things, and came back and replicated some of that here.

SHERWOODThe mayor doesn't have an open office, where she sits among all her aids. She has her own private office. But she likes what Bloomberg has done in terms of the urban agenda. She has not forgiven him, but she acknowledges he's apologized for his stop-and-frisk issue, which he apologized for in a black church, I believe, for its abuse of people on the street.

SHERWOODBut it's an interesting thing. They got together on -- they road the streetcar on H Street this week. They had a cup of coffee, and then she endorsed him. Some people said, oh, she wants to be vice president. No, that's not the case. I don't think she even thinks she would be the vice presidential nominee, but she could possibly be in the Bloomberg Cabinet if he were to win, if she wanted to. But it's more likely she endorsed Bloomberg because she likes his urban policies.

GARVEYAnd what I like is his gun control support, all the work he's done on that. That meant a lot to me.

NNAMDIEspecially in the Commonwealth of Virginia. (laugh)

GARVEYYes, where we need it, big time.

SHERWOODAll right. Well, good. Well, let's say the legislature has passed -- at least the House, I believe -- a lot of gun control bills. Let me ask the question I ask lots of folks: are guns a problem in Arlington? And if so, how?

GARVEYSo, guns aren't a problem in Arlington, but I think domestic...

SHERWOOD(overlapping) I mean, domestic violence, of course, is the issue.

GARVEY...exactly, and that's a problem everywhere. And, you know, we just need to do a lot with -- I have family in Indiana, and they use guns to hunt. And, actually, that's their food on the table, sometimes, the deer meat. So, I understand, kind of, that culture. That's fine. It's guns that are -- it's like the assault rifles, and it's having guns in homes that are not properly controlled because of what happens with children. And that's so distressing.

SHERWOODWell, the legislature's done a lot to pass some gun laws, but one of the things they have not done, one of the big bills is the banning of assault rifles, because the House and the Senate have not yet agreed on just what the heck is an assault rifle. How do you define it? So, that's an issue, but the background checks for all private sales, one-handgun-a-month sales, the red flag laws, all these things are moving through the legislature. And the governor, of course, is going to sign them.

GARVEYOh, yeah. You know, years ago, I actually wrote into a well-known local large paper. They had a headline about the senseless gun violence -- there had been another one of those horrible shootings. And I wrote back and said, this is not senseless. What senseless is that we keep letting people who are mentally ill get guns. That's what's senseless.

NNAMDIAs I mentioned, you're currently the chair of the Arlington County board. The previous chair, Christian Dorsey, filed for bankruptcy in October. He drew a correlation between his financial situation and his lower salary as a board member, quoted in the Post saying, "I made a choice to do public service and that sacrifice means my income dropped." You have offered your support for Christian Dorsey as a legislator, but are you guys making enough money?

GARVEYNo. And, actually, I have been -- last year, I did a lot -- I have a presentation I've been making about what it is we get paid and what it is we're expected to do. I'm fine. When I got on the board in 2012, the whole board was baby boomers. Nobody really had an outside job to speak of, and everybody was kind of comfortable. Now, I'm on a widow's pension, so I'm financially comfortable without earning a whole lot of money. It does help to have some coming in.

GARVEYBut my colleagues all have -- three of them have families, young kids. They have got to be earning outside money. And it is just too much, given everything that we need to do. I mean, we're a 1.4 -- well, this year, it'll be more, $1.4 billion enterprise in the county. We're on the global stage. You know, we negotiate with Amazon, Nestle, the big guys. And you just can't have five -- I don't think, five part-time people trying to do that and do their work well.

SHERWOODWhat is the rough salary now for a member, not the chair...

GARVEYFifty-two, fifty-two thousand...

SHERWOODFifty-two. Now, last year you guys passed...

GARVEY...which, with a family of four in Arlington, qualifies you for affordable housing. Just saying.

SHERWOODNow, last year, the board approved a measure that would say you could raise the salary to as high as $89,851. That would be the cap. When will you make a decision -- the board make a decision, and what do you see the raise being? Is it going to be as much as $89,000, or will it be somewhere in between?

GARVEYI think we are going to take steps. When we set that cap, it's by Virginia law that stands. We can't change that cap for another four years. And I expect you'll see us raising our salary in the context of our budget this spring. And I don't expect we'll do the whole thing at once, at all.

SHERWOODProbably in the 60s, maybe, at least?

GARVEYAt least. I hope so, yeah. You know, I will just say another thing. So, my colleague, Christian Dorsey, he is on the Metro board, and I think he's doing an excellent job. Not only for the whole, you know, county, but for the whole region. And he earns, to be on that Metro board, nothing, absolutely nothing. It's just how the Metro system is set up. It's governing award is kind of odd.

GARVEYThe Maryland alternate, I believe, makes $75,000 as an alternate. Christian makes -- which is way more than we even make as board members, and Christian makes nothing, and he's providing incredible service.

SHERWOODHe's gotten a lot of good positive comments about his work, but he had that issue where he got $10,000 from the Metro union, and he didn't report it, and then reported it late. And Metro was investigating. Has that been settled now?

GARVEYYes, it has been settled. I believe somebody asked about it, and I think he has given them the check. I think there was an issue where they hadn't actually cashed it, but you would have to check with Christian for that. And I will say, the issue with that 10,000, he didn't report it on time to Metro, but he did report it to Virginia, because he was running. So, you have to report in two different places. And when you're busy...

SHERWOODSo, there's no further Metro board action against him.

GARVEY(overlapping) Not that I'm aware of, no. No.

SHERWOODAnd you want him to stay on the board.

GARVEYI do. I do. I think we all should.

NNAMDI(overlapping) Can't talk about Arlington County without talking about affordable housing. That's what Ann in Arlington wants to do. Ann, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

ANNYes, hi. This is Ann with Arlingtonians for Our Sustainable Future. I want to congratulate Ms. Garvey on her election as board chair.

GARVEYThank you, Ann.

ANNI just want to raise the missing middle housing plan. Considering up-zoning, I wonder if you are aware -- are developers telling you they can build a house in Arlington for, say, $400,000 which would be affordable for some? And where are you looking to put them? And then the second question, will putting these kinds of homes into single-family areas promote diversity if the price-points are at 400,000?

GARVEYOkay. Let me see if I can remember both those questions. So, first, we are, as you may know, and we're embarking actually on a study, what we call the missing middle. Now, it isn't -- you might think that's for missing middle as middle income, but actually, in Arlington, if you look at it, we have a lot of single-family homes. We have a lot of tall high rises with apartments in them. We don't have many of the kind of construction and homes that are in the middle. And we think we ought to probably be providing more of those, so you have the whole gamut of housing for people.

GARVEYBecause what we want is people across the whole economic spectrum, and we want the whole spectrum of housing to meet people's different needs. So, we're embarking on that.

SHERWOODWhy do you have to study it? A study for what...

GARVEY(overlapping) Well, there's a lot...

SHERWOOD...for six months or...

GARVEY...no. I think it's probably going to be a little longer than that. We're working on the scope right now. Board members are going to be out in the community, asking for people's feedback. You have all kinds of things that you need to be thinking about. What about trees? If you encourage people to build in single -- you know, do more, say a duplex or something in a single-family neighborhood, what happens if you don't control for the footprint? Are you going to lose trees? Are you going to lose the sense of that neighborhood?

GARVEYI don't think the board is interested in removing the feel of our single-family neighborhoods, which are wonderful places to live. But I think there may be ways to put more people there. There's also things like -- there's all the Ches Bay stuff, there's the water runoff, storm water. We need to be worrying about that. And their schools. There are a whole lot of things associated with more housing and more people in different areas. And we just have to be careful that we don't miss some of those unintended consequences, and we do it right, and we bring our community along while we do it.

SHERWOODIn this area, the county has hired Telly Tucker, who sounds like -- pardon me, Kojo -- a radio show host. (laugh)

GARVEYI think you should have Telly in. He's great. I assume it's for Telemachus. I met with him. I forgot to ask him if it was for Telemachus.

NNAMDIHe's not coming in here.

SHERWOODBut he's from Danville, which is -- from Danville, Virginia, which is like 43,000, 45,000 people. A very small community. Arlington, with 250,000 and growing. Is he up to the job to do development and housing and all of these issues?

GARVEYI think so. He's a very...

SHERWOODWhy did you guys hire him?

GARVEYWell, the manager hired him. I mean, that's how it works. The board doesn't do the hiring.

SHERWOODYou don't do any approvals of him?

GARVEYNo, we do not. No, that's the -- it's a manager form of government. That's his...

SHERWOODWell, maybe we should invite the manager, then.

GARVEYYou sure could. You should invite the manager and Telly in. He actually comes from Lynchburg, and he comes highly recommended. Stephen Moret, with the Virginia Economic Development Program, praises him quite a bit. He's known around the state. He comes really highly recommended. We're looking now for a focus a little more on small businesses, you know, and our legacy businesses.

GARVEYWe need to keep the big guys, but we need to focus on keeping our -- just like we have an affordable housing crisis, we can have an affordable business crisis. Can our small businesses afford to stay in Arlington? And we want to keep them.

SHERWOODMany small businesses go out of business after one year.

GARVEYExactly, but some of them stay. We've got some legacy companies, and we want businesses, family-owned businesses, and we want to keep them. And I think -- you should have them on. I think Telly's a very interesting man. He's a concert pianist, among other things.

SHERWOODHere's an easy one to answer.

GARVEYYeah, okay. I'm worried, now. (laugh)

SHERWOODNo, it's easy. State Delegate Dave LaRock, whose area represents part of Loudoun County -- Frederick County, I think -- has proposed that Arlington and Alexandria be returned to the District of Columbia, because it's so unlike the rest of the state of Virginia in that you should just return Arlington and Alexandria to the District. We would be happy to take you back. That would help us get to be statehood, maybe, but I suspect they're not for that.

GARVEY(overlapping) And the income would be pretty incredible.

NNAMDIYou can answer that in 10 words or less, can't you?

GARVEYI could. I can just say, it's a silly question.

SHERWOODRidiculous.

NNAMDIHere then is Eleanor...

GARVEYAnd I'm happy to give it that. That's all it's worth.

NNAMDIHere, then, is Eleanor in Arlington. Eleanor, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

ELEANORThank you. My name is Eleanor Robbins. I live very close to (word?) Road. I'm calling about the county board's, in my opinion, extraordinary stupid decision to put school buses on the site where the Virginia hospital has been. You're directly across from (unintelligible) nursing home, which frequently -- all too frequently has ambulances coming and going. We have rush-hour traffic both ways, every day. You have a junior high school about three blocks down, north of this site.

ELEANORWhat in the world -- couldn't you -- did you look at North Arlington? It seems to me, having been a resident of Arlington since 1939, yeah...

GARVEY(overlapping) That's great, Miss Robbins. No, it's wonderful.

ELEANORYeah...

NNAMDIMiss Robbins, what would you like the board to do?

ELEANORDid you look in North Arlington? It seems to me you put many things in South Arlington. We've been the stepchild since 1939.

GARVEYOkay. I am well aware of that...

NNAMDIThese are the hyper-local issues that exist...

GARVEY(overlapping) Right, right, right, right. And, Ms. Robbins, I live in South Arlington. I've lived in Fairlington since 1977, and I'm aware of a lot of these issues. That actually is temporary, and it's the school system that makes those decisions. And what they were looking for, it's hard to find a place to put buses, and that's part of the decision there. They also, I know, wanted to be as close as possible to where most of the buses are, because that's where the repair facilities are. And so there's some support facilities that are there.

GARVEYThis is a temporary placement, and we just -- the school system came to us, you know, just kind of desperate. They have to have a place to put these buses, and we allowed them to do that for a while.

SHERWOODLet me ask you...

GARVEYBut I understand your concern.

SHERWOODLet me ask you about North Arlington and South Arlington. I haven't lived there. I have relatives who have, and it's a very clear thing in their mind, oh, you're in North Arlington. Oh, you live in South Arlington. Whether it's transportation issues, where there was going to be a streetcar, all these different things. It's that there's some feeling that if you're in South Arlington, you are not quite a full citizen of this county.

GARVEYWell, I think...

SHERWOODA dumping ground...

GARVEY(overlapping) Yeah, I know. And that's a trope that's been around for a long time. I'll point out right now we have three county board members that live in South Arlington. So, this is our home, too. And I will say...

SHERWOODSo, if they get paid more, they'll move to North Arlington. (laugh)

GARVEYNo, I don't believe so. I mean, I love where I live, and I will say my grandson is a senior at Wakefield High School. And there was a time when Wakefield wasn't considered, like, a good school to go to. It is now the school -- the best high school in the entire United States. And in part because, you know, there are different ways of living.

GARVEYWhat I love about South Arlington is the diversity and the vibrancy. It's a very different lifestyle, and you can offer both. And we do a lot to improve things around the county. And I think, as you see, Amazon is in South Arlington, and there's some really exciting things happening in Crystal City.

NNAMDI(overlapping) Speaking of which, the county board and Amazon have agreed to buy all the energy produced at a Dominion Energy solar power farm located near the North Carolina border. What's that going to do for Arlington County?

GARVEYWell, that gets us to our community energy goals for 2025, just about, which is where we're hoping to have 100 percent renewable energy for county operations by 2025. We had an interim goal of 50 percent in 2022, and we're now there with 80 percent now. And this just helps us, as a county, get to our renewable energy goals. It's really a step to the transition to more renewable energy, and it's great to support solar power. I think it's exciting for us. I think it's exciting for the planet, actually.

NNAMDITom Sherwood likes to say, this is The Politics Hour, and you now have a challenger. Even though you're now chairperson of the board, there's a challenger...

GARVEYJust like four years ago, if you'll remember, Kojo. (laugh)

NNAMDIFour years -- yes. In the June primary Chanda Choun is trying to...

GARVEYChanda Choun .

NNAMDI...Chanda Choun is trying to knock you off the board and has picked up support of the commissioner of Revenue, Ingrid Morroy.

GARVEYMm-hmm. So?

NNAMDISo, are you going to run?

GARVEYI am running. I have already announced that I'm running. I had my kickoff -- I had a great kickoff at New District Brewery, one of the small businesses we're trying to keep in South Arlington. And I am running on, basically, the three themes that I have as chair. They're overarching themes. One is equity, which is really crucial. One is innovation. And the third is resiliency. And those are overall, you know, focus areas for us to stay kind of focused on what we need to do.

GARVEYAnd I had -- it was a great kickoff. I had Aneesh Chopra come and speak, the first technology officer of the United States, to talk about innovation. It was really exciting. Had about 70 people there. I'm fired up.

SHERWOODTell me -- I don't know this person who's running against you. What does she say -- maybe...

GARVEYIt's a he. It's a he.

SHERWOODI'm sorry, I didn't even know that. So, that shows how much I know about it. But has there been a declaration of why they're running? Is it something he hasn't done or has done? Or does it...

GARVEYNot that I've seen.

NNAMDIAccording to the report that we have seen...

GARVEYOkay. Yeah, so what have you seen?

NNAMDI...Chanda Choun has stressed the need for bold action to solve difficult problems. There's a quote, "We must fight for a green new deal for Arlington. Climate change is here. We now face destructive flash floods and 100 degree-plus days than ever. We can fight this from the ground up to protect and expand our natural environment."

GARVEYYeah, well, I'm working on continuing our forward progress. We've been working on it and we're getting better all the time. And these are not easy problems to solve. You know, one of the things that I bring and one of the reasons I love my job is, you need to solve these larger problems regionally, which I'm sure you two guys are really familiar with.

SHERWOODWe're almost out of time.

GARVEYYeah, and I have a lot of contacts and networks in the region, and I love working with my regional colleagues.

SHERWOODDo you support -- this is an issue of Maryland, too. Do you support schools starting two weeks before Labor Day?

GARVEYIf the School Board thinks that's what they want to do, sure.

SHERWOODNo, what do you think?

GARVEYI think, often, it makes --

SHERWOOD(overlapping) You're a parent. You just mentioned Wakefield High School.

GARVEYNo, I'm a grandparent. I'm a grandparent.

SHERWOODWell, you mentioned Wakefield High School...

GARVEYYeah.

SHERWOOD...do you have an opinion about whether it should start two weeks before Labor Day?

GARVEYYou know, I think you need to have a good education, and I don't have a strong opinion on it...

SHERWOODOkay.

GARVEY...because just let's do what's right for the kids and for the school system.

NNAMDIIn about the 40 seconds we have left, the board approved a bill this week that would increase the cost of speeding tickets by $200 (laugh) in some residential areas. What areas are going to be subject to those higher...

GARVEY(overlapping) So, I cannot tell you the exact areas. There's criteria, which our staff is working on. They did tell us it's mostly around -- a lot of them are around schools. And we just need people to slow down. And it was interesting, nobody came to testify about it. I have received a few emails, and people are basically arguing that they should be allowed to speed and endanger people's lives. And they should not. If we can slow them down, it'll be great, because we've had a number of near-misses and some accidents that have are really scary. We've got to slow down.

NNAMDIYou've got 18 seconds.

SHERWOODI'm going to go out this weekend and buy a Gwen Ifill stamp.

GARVEYThat's great. Oh, I know Gwen. Oh, yeah. WETA is right in my hood.

SHERWOODShe made history.

NNAMDITom and Gwen worked together at the Washington Post for a while. And, of course, I knew Gwen since her days at the Post. I considered her a friend, and it's so great that there's now going to be a postage stamp.

SHERWOODThat's right. Fifty-one cents forever, just like she'll be forever in our hearts.

GARVEYOh, that's lovely.

NNAMDIThank you so much for joining us, Libby Garvey.

GARVEYThank you.

NNAMDIToday's show was produced by Cydney Grannan. Get ready for the next Kojo in Your Community conversation. We'll talk about changing immigration rules and their impact on local students and families. It's on February 25th at the Columbia Heights educational campus. Learn how to get tickets and more at kojoshow.org.

NNAMDIComing up Monday, black workers in D.C. continue to feel the effects of institutionalized racism, that according to a new report. Who's trying to do something about that? Plus, earlier this month, the Library of Congress named Author Jason Reynolds national ambassador for young people's literature. He joins us to discuss the importance of listening to young people and sharing their stories. That all starts at noon, on Monday. What's up this weekend, Sherwood?

SHERWOODI'm sorry, I'm just going to have a good weekend.

NNAMDIYou don't have any particular place in mind to visit?

SHERWOODI'm going to the post office to buy the Gwen Ifill stamp.

NNAMDIIn that case, I'm coming past your house for lunch on Sunday. Have a wonderful weekend. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.