KOJO NNAMDIYou're tuned in to The Kojo Nnamdi Show on WAMU 88.5. Welcome. Later in the broadcast, one year after the Capital Gazette shooting we explore the mental and physical safety of journalists. But first at their home game last Friday night the Washington Mystics didn't answer questions from the press about basketball. Instead they called attention to gun violence near schools in Ward 8 where they play. It's the latest example of athletes in the D.C. region using their unique positions to talk about social issues.

KOJO NNAMDIWhen and how do local sports stars choose to speak out? And what are the effects of their advocacy? Joining us by phone is Natasha Cloud. Natasha Cloud is a Guard for the Washington Mystics basketball team. Natasha Cloud, thank you for joining us.

NATASHA CLOUDThank you for having me.

NNAMDIYour whole team recently engaged in a media blackout. What did that mean and what triggered it?

CLOUDYes. So our whole team engaged in a media blackout our rematch of the 2018 WNBA Finals matchup of the Seattle Storm. What a media blackout means is that we don't talk to the media about the game or anything that has been going on basketball related. What I did is I stood up in front of all reporters made one statement on the gun violence occurring here in southeast D.C. in Ward 8, especially surrounding our schools. And that was the only statement that was made. So the point behind the media blackout is to shed light on one topic and to basically blackout the media from asking any other questions or covering any other, you know, part of the game or any other thing besides what we're to talking about.

NNAMDIWhat brought your attention to this issue?

CLOUDHendley Elementary School is our adoptive school under Monumental Sports. So the day before our game on Thursday I had gone into read to kindergarten students. And I found out while I was there -- the librarian told me that they had to cancel their field day on Thursday, because the day before Wednesday afternoon a bullet penetrated the school. What was even more disheartening to hear was that it was the third bullet in the span of a month that has penetrated Hendley Elementary. So immediately, you know, I was upset. I was enraged. When you're talking about kids being safe going to school and bettering themselves with an education, if they don't feel safe to go to school they won't go to school. And then that just continues the cycle especially in minority communities of kids going into the streets and into the wrong places.

NNAMDIWere all of your teammates onboard with the media blackout?

CLOUDAbsolutely. I came in the next day. We sat down as a team and our discussion was more so, what are we doing moving forward to help and to be a part of the solution? You know, this is not just the onetime thing with us where we do one media blackout and then we move on. Our discussions were more based around of what's next? What can we do in the future, whether it's, you know, putting on events or going into schools and just giving kids a safe place and an opportunity?

NNAMDIYou called on D.C. Mayor Muriel Bowser and Ward 8 Councilmember Trayon White to take action on gun violence. Councilmember White responded last weekend that the community needs something more material than tweets. What's your response and what are your next steps?

CLOUDWell, we just came home from a 12 day road trip.

NNAMDII know.

CLOUDImmediately I left afterwards, but I have a meeting setup with top policy makers in our surrounding area of D.C. I have that setup for July 2nd. As well as figuring out on my own end with my own personal management team what are some steps that we can take, whether it's, you know, doing some drives to help kids, doing some clinics. Again, just really giving them a safe place from my end as an athlete that's what I can bring, but as well as just better educating myself on, you know, gun laws and what really needs to be pressed on to make immediate solutions.

CLOUDAnd that's what we want as the Mystics is immediate solutions. I know that Mayor Bowser and Trayon are working on, you know, the long run, and those solutions, but when you're talking about kids' schools being shot up what is done the next day immediately to ensure their safety? That's my concern.

CLOUDSo, again, no one's taking away from what Mayor Bowser does or what Trayon does for Ward 8 or for D.C., but we need to ensure these kids' safety and that should be a priority. And that should be our main priority right now especially with the increasing gun violence.

NNAMDIThis is not the first media blackout you've been a part of. Players in the WNBA put one together in 2016 to call attention to officer involved shootings of black people. How do you as a player decide when to weigh in and when not to?

CLOUDYou know, it's been a process of kind of just growing into my own and my own voice. And understanding what my platform is and how I can use it to, you know, help in different categories. When the shootings were going on with the police -- I think it was in 2017. And we decided to do the Black Lives Matter blackout. You know, again, that was a team decision, and deciding when and where to use our voices is definitely a delicate situation. But just like in this case with the gun violence I understand that my platform can bring attention and shed light on situations going on within our community.

CLOUDAnd, you know, D.C. is a huge part of my heart. It's a second home for me. I've been here for five years now. So, you know, this community matters to me. These kids matter to me. So when you're talking about deciding what to speak up on and what not to speak up on it's really I guess my morals and my values and just knowing right from wrong too. But when I feel something wholeheartedly it's hard not to speak on it.

NNAMDIDo you feel supported by your coaches, by management?

CLOUDAbsolutely. As soon as I put those videos on my Instagram I got a text from our management saying that they were going to release a supporting statement the next day. And that whatever I needed in order to help be a part of the solution they were here to help me obtain. When you're talking about sitting down on July 2nd with policymakers, I mean, that's monumental setting me up with that. So when you're talking about not being scared to speak up as a player, because you have an organization that supports you and wants you to speak up and use your platform where need be, I mean, that's huge when you're talking about not having fear or repercussions because of using your voice.

NNAMDINatasha Cloud, she plays Guard for the Washington Mystics. Thank you so much for joining us.

CLOUDThank you so much for having me.

NNAMDIAlso joining us in studio is Briana Scurry, former Goalkeeper on the U.S. Women's National Team. She's a two-time Olympian and World Cup Champion. Briana Scurry, welcome. Good to have you here.

BRIANA SCURRYGood afternoon. Nice to be here. Thank you.

NNAMDIAlso joining us in studio is Kelyn Soong. He is the Sports Editor at Washington City Paper. Kelyn, good to see you again.

KELYN SOONGThanks, Kojo.

NNAMDIYou've been covering Natasha Cloud and the media blackout for City Paper. How rare is it to see a professional sports team do something like that?

SOONGI think it's pretty rare for what she did. I think, you know, she really put herself out there. And, you know, she expected some backlash, but she knew, you know, I think earlier this season before she did that I wrote about how she found her activist voice. And so, like Natasha just said it took her a while to kind of find that confidence and belief in having a platform. But once she learned that she had that platform, had that voice, she really, you know, made a deliberate choice to do things like this. And so I think it is relatively rare. I think nowadays you have more athletes, who are, you know, using their platform for causes. But, you know, I think what she's doing is still pretty unique.

NNAMDIWhat kinds of pressures do these athletes face when they speak up on social issues?

SOONGI mean, you know, I think there's pressure in terms of how, you know, I think maybe there's sponsorship pressures, right? There's you know, how Maybe if you play for a certain league, I think the WNBA as I've talked -- written about with some of the players, you know, it's more of a progressive league I think. They allow players to have that voice, like Natasha said. Mike Thibault, her coach is very supportive of that and that's not always the case.

NNAMDII was about to say, what about teams and leagues that are more conservative when it comes to athletes speaking out?

SOONGI think you see -- you know, I think the NFL is probably the biggest example of that. You see, obviously when the whole Colin Kaepernick and, you know, kneeling taking a knee. I think players are more pressured to not, you know, conform or standout from the locker room. So, you know, I think you see in those leagues maybe the NFL, the MLB to an extent -- you don't really see that, right? And I think they may be more pressured or maybe more money on the line. But when you have athletes like Natasha Cloud or the Mystics, you know, I think maybe they're from more marginalized communities. They're, you know, female athletes, and so that's why, you know, I think it's not a coincidence they're the ones taking a stand.

NNAMDIBriana Scurry, right now the U.S. Women's Soccer Team is headed into the quarterfinals of the World Cup. And earlier this week President Trump criticized Megan Rapinoe, co-captain of the team for remaining silent during the National Anthem. She says she's calling attention to racial injustice and police misconduct. What are your thoughts on that kind of protest?

SOONGI'd completely support Megan Rapinoe as a former National Team player myself, I often stood for the National Anthem and sometimes sung. Sometimes didn't. Always did have my hand over my heart. I feel Megan is well within her rights to bring attention to what resonates with her, and I think that's really truly the thing. With any athlete if something resonates with them whether it's in geographical closeness or if it's something in their family or one of their teammates have an experience that really touches them, that's usually when they get involved.

SOONGAnd I think Megan has often felt that she now is able to speak her voice. She's found her voice now. She's a leader on the team. She's someone who produces on the team. And she has a voice and people are willing to listen. And I think as far as I'm concerned her play is just the same if not better. And if she feels that she wants to make a stand even as subtle as not singing, it's good for me.

NNAMDII can't tell you how many basketball games I have been to during the course of my life where I haven't seen one player singing the National Anthem.

SOONGRight.

NNAMDIAt all and nobody ever seems to say anything. As a professional athlete yourself, who's been on the national and international stage, what's the calculation in your head like when you're deciding whether or not you should speak about something you care about?

SCURRYI think it depends. For example in the past it seems to be a generational thing for our National Team. You know, we speak up for equality and we are trying to get pay equality. We have been in pursuit of doing that for decades now. And the team currently is continuing that battle. And I think for us it made sense and we were doing it in 99 and 2000, because we wanted the players that came after us to have equality or get as close it as we could for them. And we were willing to put your neck out there and you have to be unified and that's the key.

SCURRYObviously the Mystics are as well, and that's the key. If you have buy in from every player on that team, they see that what they're standing up for is right is something they believe in and they're willing to take that risk and be seen and hopefully make a change and obviously it does work.

NNAMDIHave you ever worried about losing fans over positions that you have taken or have you faced criticism for speaking out?

SCURRYI'm sure I have. I don't really pay much attention to any of the criticism. I as an athlete and as a goalkeeper, my career has been, you know, amazingly glorious at times and not so much at other times. And I'm used to criticism as a goalkeeper as to whether I did something right or wrong, and so for me it's a part of the game, right, it's part of the sport. It's part of the job description. You're an athlete. You're putting yourself out there. You're striving and a lot of people will always have an opinion about that.

NNAMDIKelyn, politically the D.C. region is a pretty progressive place. Do you think that the fan base here or maybe even the proximity to national politics gives athletes extra license to talk about social issues?

SOONGI think gives them, you know, I think just being in the city it maybe inspires them to speak out. You know, I know with the Mystics we've talked about a lot, I think, you know, they visited the African American Culture Museum. They've, you know, gone to Congress and I think because of those opportunities they maybe feel more motivation to do so. Just being in D.C., you're kind of surrounded by that, right? You can't really avoid talking about those issues, and, maybe I guess they may have more license, but I think, they're -- you know, especially if you're inclined to do so being in a city like this will make you want to.

NNAMDIGot to take a short break, when we come we will continue this conversation with Briana Scurry and Kelyn Soong. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.

NNAMDIWelcome back we're talking about athletes and advocacy with Briana Scurry, former Goalkeeper on the U.S. Women's National Team. She's a two-time Olympian and World Cup Champion. Kelyn Soong is the Sports Editor at Washington City Paper. We're inviting your calls at (800) 433-8850. What's your opinion about athletes speaking up on social issues? (800) 433-8850. Briana, sometimes the targets of athlete's activism is the organizations they work for. For example, the U.S. Women's National Team has been demanding equality with the Men's National Team from the U.S. Soccer Federation for a long time. Where did things stand about that when you were on the team?

SCURRYWe had to fight for things that were very simple. Things like two massage therapists. We looked at the men's team to see what they had. Particular level of hotels, the way they traveled, their training facilities, support staff, all of that and we wanted to be able to match that. And we thought we had the right to match that. We had amazing victory and amazing success on and off the pitch. We helped bring huge sponsorship to the table like Nike and different organizations like Snickers and Allstate. So we felt we had every right, since U.S. Soccer Federation is the governing body for soccer in this country for everyone not just for boys and men. And we felt like it was only fair that we get the same kind of support staff.

SCURRYAnd now, it's evolved into income as well, because the women's team -- if you look at U.S. Soccer Federation's own statistics on their budget numbers the women's team are equal with the men in terms of revenue brought in.

NNAMDIAnd the women's team is much more successful than the men in terms of international competition. Your successes, the current players on the National Team including Mallory Pugh, Rose Lavelle, and Andi Sullivan who also played for the Washington Spirit alleged pay discrimination and a lawsuit against U.S. Soccer. Do you have a sense of how challenging it was for them to make the decision to take legal action?

SCURRYI can imagine how it would be challenging. On a personal level as an athlete you're thinking to yourself, I'm going to do this with my teammates. Will this affect my opportunity to express my dream, to live my dream, to make my dream a reality, which is playing on a World Cup team or an Olympic team? But when you step back and look at the bigger picture whenever you come into the U.S. Women's National Team into camp it's a responsibility not only to play on the pitch, but also to advance the game forward and leave it better than how you found it.

SCURRYSo I know personally a lot of these athletes may have had, you know, moments of decision and doubt that they had to overcome, but if you look at the grand scheme of things with 28 players deep filing a lawsuit, that's a lot of power. That is a lot of power and with power you can make change occur. If you don't band together and make these big moves like they had to do with that lawsuit, nothing will change. It's the only way to change it.

NNAMDIDo you think that power is both motivated and assisted by the fact that the women's team has been so successful?

SCURRYThat has always been our number one plank in our discussion in our deliberation with U.S. Soccer is the fact that we've had incredible success and they obviously can't deny that. You know, not only placing in the top three or higher, but winning multiple World Championships, multiple Olympic Gold Medals. There's no argument there. Their argument had always been the revenue. And as of recently the last cycle, which is the last four year period the women and the men are even on the revenue front. And so I think now it's a great environment with the Me Too movement with Times Up movement with women in Congress. Female empowerment is really coming to the forefront of our society and I think it's time especially this team, because we've had such great success on the pitch is a great example of a group of women, who deserve equality.

NNAMDIKelyn, we've been talking to and about a lot of female athletes in this conversation. We know women athletes are not the only ones taking a stand on political issues. Colin Kaepernick's famous kneeling protest is in the NFL is one of the better known example. But is there something about the culture of women's sports or the individual experiences of female athletes that make them more likely to engage in activism?

SOONGI think that's part of it. I think, you know, I mentioned it better. You know, it's almost about personal survival, right? It's about you're being affected personally by the injustices of unequal pay. So I do think that plays a role. You know, I think male athletes are allies in some cases. But I think if you're not the one experiencing it, if you're privileged, I think it's harder to kind of understand what, you know, female athletes are going through. So I do think that does play a role. You know, I think some male athletes have contributed and stood up for, you know, unequal pay and issues like that. But I definitely do think that being a female athlete plays a role in, you know, what kind of social issues you pursue.

NNAMDIBriana, what do you think?

SCURRYI definitely agree. In our case with the women's soccer team, I think we felt we were able to make this stand, in part because we were incredibly successful, but also because we were women. And it seems to me that when it comes to inequality women have had to fight for just about everything we've ever gotten from voting rights to reproductive rights to, you know, income and pay. In order to even maintain those things, to keep those things even we've had to fight for that. And so I think it does make it more impactful coming from women.

SCURRYI think also especially with female athletes, because we're striving and we're overcoming barriers and we're inspirational. Not just women soccer players, but basketball team, softball team and the Olympic Games over the years we've done incredibly well and brought great honor and pride to the United States, because we've done well. And so I think it's just in line and it's just time. And I think that's why you're seeing so much activity from women athletes that are trying to make a stand for things that are important to them.

NNAMDIKelyn, you reported on a lesser known pay issue in sports recently, salaries for Minor League baseball players. What did you find?

SOONGYeah. This was kind of just something that, you know, I had never been to a Minor League baseball game before. So I wanted just to see what life was like, you know, what the stadium was like, what the crowd was like. And, you know, if you Google Minor League baseball I think some of the first results you see is how they're being exploited. So that's something I wanted to kind of talk to these players first hand.

SOONGAnd what I found was -- even after reading the article was pretty shocking. And so, you know, these players -- there's an Instagram account called -- I forget what it's called now -- but it's about Minor League life, and you have these players who are sleeping on air mattresses in kitchens. And cooking dinner on like a sink next to -- you know, in a bathroom. You know, they're living a pretty rough grind. And, you know, it's -- Major League Baseball was sued by a couple of Minor League players about, you know, unfair wages and not living a livable wage. And so, yeah, what I found was pretty surprising.

NNAMDITwo Nationals players, Adam Eaton and Sean Doolittle weighed in. What did they say?

SOONGSo part of my reporting was I wanted to get a perspective from a Major League baseball player, who had experience in the Minor Leagues. And one of those players I found was Adam Eaton. You know, going into the story, you know, I kind of just wanted to get that perspective, because I understand that, you know, some major leaguers believe that, you know, it's kind of like a rite of passage. Some think it's, you know, it's definitely a really kind of terrible situation and things need to change. So there's different mindsets.

SOONGAnd so I wanted to talk to Eaton not knowing what his opinions were at all. And he was admittedly very very old school in his opinions and said, you know, he agreed, you know, he admitted that these players were being exploited, but he was saying -- and this story kind of got out a little out of control out of my hands a little bit, but basically what he was saying that he felt he wouldn't be where he is without that brutal experience, right? And he was saying -- I asked him kind of my second question to him was like, should, you know, Minor League Baseball be a more livable situation? And he said, no. You know, he said no because, you know, he kind of expanded on that in ensuing days. But he said no, because he felt he wouldn't be where he is without that experience.

NNAMDIIt worked for him. What did Sean Doolittle have to say?

SOONGSean Doolittle, who is one of those athletes I feel like he's taking, you know, he's put his voice out there. He's lending his influence with a lot of different issues. And he's, I think in general you can -- it's fair to say he's more of a progressive guy. And so in the interview with a radio station he kind of -- he was pretty markedly different at his teammate in saying that, you know, they're being exploited. This should not be the situation. He's played in the Minor Leagues as well. And he knows that being, you know, a high round draft pick he's been a lot luckier than some of the players. So he was pretty adamant that this situation is not right and needs to be changed.

NNAMDIIf you don't make it to the Majors you don't want to be just left without any kind of opportunity what so ever to make a living. So at the very least his argument was that you should be able to make a decent living playing in the Minor Leagues.

SOONGYeah, or I think it's, you know, you want to -- and I think both players would agree that you want to give those players opportunities to succeed. So, you know, I think it's a little different now. I think situations have improved, but, you know, in Minor Leagues sometimes they're fighting over concession stand food. You know, they're not -- I mean, I think things have improved. This might not be the case now. You know, in recent years Adam Eaton said that they had two loaves of bread and a jar of peanut butter and a jar of jelly. And once that was gone that was gone.

NNAMDISo the Minor Leagues are generally advertised as fan friendly, which they are. Apparently they're much friendlier to the fans than they are to the players. But, Briana, another issue you've been passionate about lately is concussions on and off the soccer pitch. What information do you feel needs to get out there?

SCURRYMy career ended from a concussion. And so this was April 2010. And before the concussion I didn't understand or realize the depth and the breadth of the problem in my sport of soccer. And it wasn't until I finally was able to get the right doctors and the right treatment three years after my concussion. Then I realized that there was really a problem. And I felt that if I as a former Olympic gold medalist and a World Cup Champion was having so much trouble trying to get the proper treatment for a concussion at my level. Then I could only imagine how it might be for other women and boys playing soccer. And I so I read an article that stated that 50 percent of female soccer players will suffer a concussion in their career. And that was an alarmingly high number.

SCURRYAnd also I wanted my three years of struggle to mean something, so I became an advocate. And what I want people to know is soccer is a beautiful game. It is one of the most engaging, insightful, just beautiful game that brings countries and communities together. I want everyone to participate and to play. But there is a difference when you suffer a concussion as opposed to any other kind of injury. And I want people to be safe and to able to enjoy the game to their highest capacity. And I want the game to be safer and authorities from FIFA to, you know, the major leagues --

NNAMDIHas it been hard to get them -- the authorities, the soccer community to acknowledge this particular danger of the sport?

SCURRYThe community and the sport does not want to be labeled as dangerous. And I think that is the fear that if they make all these progressive changes to rules and regulations of the game then it will be labeled and seen as dangerous. And they don't want that.

NNAMDIWell, if you've ever seen kids playing it you will understand that even if they there is the possibility of concussions, they're going to continue playing for a long time. So the kind of protection that you are advocating is what they probably need. Briana Scurry is a former Goalkeeper on the U.S. Women's National Team. She's a two-time Olympian and World Cup Champion. Thank you so much for joining us.

SCURRYThanks for having me. It's been wonderful.

NNAMDII sit in awe. Kelyn Soong is the Sports Editor at Washington City Paper. Kelyn, thank you for joining us.

SOONGThanks so much.

NNAMDIGoing to take a short break, when we come back, one year after the Capital Gazette shooting we explore the mental and physical safety of journalist. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.