MR. KOJO NNAMDIAfter a decade of mapping routes, calculating costs and building consensus, the Arlington County board abruptly halted two long-planned streetcar projects yesterday saying it was the will of the voters not to go forward. County Board Chairman Jay Fisette said that in re-electing a board member who opposed the streetcar plan, voters signaled their disapproval and the board had to listen. The streetcars were slated for Columbia Pike and Crystal City. Opponents say they're too expensive and favor new bus rapid transit instead. But the board's vote was not unanimous.

MR. KOJO NNAMDIJoining me to look at the proposed projects and the implications of the decision to halt them is Martin Di Caro, WAMU 88.5 transportation reporter. He joins me by phone. Martin Di Caro, thank you for joining us.

MR. MARTIN DI CAROHello, Kojo. How are you today?

NNAMDII'm doing well. Also joining us by phone is Walter Tejada who is an Arlington County board member. Walter Tejada, thank you for joining us.

MR. WALTER TEJADAYes, thank you. Good afternoon. Good to be here, Kojo. Thanks for inviting me.

NNAMDIGood to talk to you. Walter, you were the lone vote yesterday against scrapping the two streetcar projects. Why?

TEJADAI believe that is the right project for our community and that the long-term benefits outweighed the investment that some people are concerned about now. And I think that when you look at the region and how everyone's progression is important for us to develop transportation options that move more people in the case of streetcar, it's an option that would move more people, generate economic development, protect affordable housing.

TEJADAIn fact, our affordable housing plan is a model for (word?) development now because no one in the country has attempted to do what we were trying to do, which is to protect all -- not some but all the affordable housing in the area while having a modern streetcar line that would benefit everyone, including a diverse population that resides in that area. Just like the Metro benefitted in the northern part of the county when underground heavy rail went in the Orange, Blue and now the Silver Lines, and billions of dollars have been used -- invested there.

TEJADAA modest investment for the streetcar system in the southern part of the county we thought was a really good thing to do. And it's unfortunate that we are at this point abandoning it.

NNAMDIMartin Di Caro, can you be a bit more specific about how streetcars were tied into providing more affordable housing in Arlington County?

CAROWell, one thing that's very important that you just alluded to and our other guest alluded to is that street cars are not simply about moving people. There are many ways to move large numbers of people efficiently and possibly more efficiently than a streetcar would. The average speed of streetcars is very low. One study for Arlington -- and there have been many studies, competing studies about what's going on -- put the speed at around 13 miles an hour.

CAROIt's about economic development. It's fixed rail showing developers that this is fixed rail transit. It's not going anywhere. And that commuters and visitors and people there who live there are going to have reliable transit that's going to show up at the same time, at the same place every single day. And just like (word?) is looking at the H Street corridor for economic development (word?) to a streetcar project, Arlington was looking at the same. It's very expensive to -- this sounds like a strange thing to say but it's expensive to incentivize affordable housing.

CAROBasically what happens is when developers come in they want to build denser. So you give them density bonuses in exchange for subsidizing affordable units in those new buildings. And the developers are not going to have a certain number of affordable units unless there's an incentive for them to do that. So you allow them to go denser, have more units and then you take a certain percentage off the top that goes back into affordable housing.

CAROAnd Arlington's goal was to have zero displacement, no one displaced as a result of the economic growth that they hoped the streetcar would fuel. And that was assuming that Chris Zimmerman, the biggest streetcar advocate there is who's been silent since this stunning decision, wanted to achieve. He had told me that and he had told others in interviews over the past couple of years.

NNAMDIChris Zimmerman of course a former member and chair of the Arlington County board. We're talking with Martin Di Caro...

CAROSo I said there was a goal of -- I'm sorry, Kojo. There was a goal of 100 percent -- or no displacement to keep everyone in the neighborhood there with affordable housing policy. Sorry.

NNAMDI800-433-8850. Do you agree with the board's majority that the voters spoke out against the streetcar expansion by re-electing John Vihstadt this month, 800-433-8850? Walter, Arlington County board chairman Jay Fisette said that the board was caught flatfooted by organized opposition to the streetcars that surfaced in the past year and was unable to persuade a majority of voters that a streetcar system was both affordable and desirable. How do you, Walter Tejada, interpret the voters' message in this month's election?

TEJADAWell, I think congratulations are in order for those who used the polities of fear to let the electorate believe that somehow things are falling apart. When we have, in Arlington for 14 straight years, received a triple A bond rating. And we have made long-term investments that really result in a very high quality of life we enjoy today, perhaps some might take for granted. But I think when you look at a private facility that actually has been -- the voters voted for a bond to build it, which is about $50 million, we cast it aside because the estimates came in a little higher. We said, nope, we're not doing that, put it aside.

TEJADAAnd then a transit station that got some negative publicity using a couple of those topics as if things are falling apart, I think congratulations are in order for those who used that negativity, what I call acquired negativity to then continuously made that point over and over with a well-paid campaign. And that was the one part saying that we could not necessarily be against.

TEJADABecause when you have a group of people who have thousands of dollars they're using every day putting negativity out there and advertisement in local papers, which by the way only goes to North Arlington and is not distributed in South Arlington, you kind of wonder what really was the motive that, you know, some of these people had. So it's sad for Arlington because we have pride ourselves in a very high level and high road politics where we had no one aside to discuss their point of view but is done in a very eloquent, dignified, respectful manner.

TEJADAAnd it's sad that the rancor that has been generated by this with a lot of misinformation has set Arlington back in, I think, a step backwards by not moving forward with the streetcars. So it's really sad but congratulations to those who successfully used the practice of fear to get elected.

NNAMDIMartin Di Caro, the Arlington vote affects plans for two streetcar lines. Where were they slated to go and what were some of the biggest arguments made against building them?

CAROWell, one was for Columbia Pike, the other was for Crystal City. And the arguments made against them are arguments that could possibly be made against any large transit project. They could be called boondoggles, they're too expensive. I think what this issue raises, the defeat of this program. And I'm not saying it should've been built or it shouldn't have been built, but it's very easy to naysay a project (word?) when it's in the planning stages because transit projects are very expensive.

CAROThe opponents of this one, to get into the specific situation here on Columbia Pike and, of course, Kojo, the answer to your question, was that it was too slow, it would be clunky. It wouldn't carry enough people, that a bus option (unintelligible) …

NNAMDIWell, yeah, they seem to support the idea of bus rapid transit instead. How does bus rapid transit work?

CAROSo bus rapid transit is not simply an expressed bus line. Bus rapid transit works when you have large numbers of people all going pretty much to the same place or the same transit hub or the same job center when you have, you know, condensed job centers, not spread out job centers. And it's used mostly through dedicated lanes. All right. Bus rapid transit works best when the buses have their own lanes, own signaling system to get from point A to point B.

CAROOn Columbia Pike, in order to dedicate lanes for buses, Arlington would need permission -- and Mr. Tejada could probably talk about this as well -- permission from the Virginia Department of...

TEJADAFrom the Department of Trans...

CARO...yeah, Virginia Department of Transportation to make that conversion of lanes. And that is very unlikely. So the system that the opponents of the streetcar have been proposing is not really on the table and faces a really large obstacle. Now they might say, well, if you have a regional bus rapid transit network, it would be okay to have at least part of it in mixed traffic. And that was the answer that Arlingtonians are sensible trying to get yesterday...

NNAMDIWalter Tejada, what are your thoughts on bus rapid transit as an alternative to streetcars?

TEJADAYeah, that's in large part part of the misleading information that was -- people were putting out there because it's easy to say that it's -- bus is cheaper and more flexible than rail. The fact is that by law we cannot dedicate a lane on Columbia Pike for any purpose able to be against the agreements we have with the state of Virginia. And now there are successful rapid transit buses systems around the country, but with Columbia, for example, wonderful.

TEJADAThat is -- when they have the actual lane that can be used specifically, solely and exclusively for buses. So it's misleading to say that bus rapid transit system will be better than a streetcar system. So that's, in part, part of the problem. That's one of the things that is easy to be negative against. And repeated that -- people don't take the time to dive into the details. And so these heroes get a soundbite out there and, you know, that's where we have to give credit to those who are -- have been against really a track record of good government by being against the streetcar.

NNAMDILet me talk to a couple of callers about this. First, Krista in Arlington, Va. Krista, your turn.

KRISTAYes. So I have somewhat of a unique perspective as someone who voted for (unintelligible) voted for the streetcar. It seems like the county board decided that the election of this that was a referendum on the streetcar, but part of the reason I voted for this is that it was for independence on the board. And actually the Post article that (unintelligible) said that it would -- there would still be a majority pro streetcar on the board, which there was prior to this decision. So it's being just (unintelligible) ...

NNAMDISo you're saying that on the one hand you voted for Vihstadt. On the other hand you regret that the vote for Vihstadt was interpreted to mean that public sentiment was going against the streetcar.

KRISTAExactly.

NNAMDIOkay. Thank you very much for your call.

TEJADAYeah, I have to respect Krista's vote obviously, but those are the consequences when the message is put out there to confuse the electorate. And I really appreciate her candidness. Unfortunately these are the consequences of not diving into the details. So, you know, hopefully maybe we can all come together as a community but it's very sad that Arlington has taken a step back.

NNAMDIWell...

TEJADAAnd I'm ready to take a step forward.

NNAMDI...here's the other side of that coin. Dave on Columbia Pike in Virginia. Dave, your turn. Hi Dave, are you there?

DAVEYes, I am. Can you hear me?

NNAMDIYes, I can.

DAVEVery good. I'm at the German Gourmet on Columbia Pike right now near Falls Church-Arlington border. And I just wanted to say that I'm a big fan of Walter and the great things that he's done for affordable housing in the county. But on the issue of the streetcar, I wasn't in agreement because I think that anyone who's paying attention right now to the rapid transformation in transportation space with what's happening with Uber, with what's happening with driverless vehicles, it's not something that a county should really commit hundreds of millions of dollars to for transportation projects in the context of...

NNAMDIWalter, do you think more flexible use of automobiles is the wave of the future?

TEJADAWell first, let me acknowledge Dave's comment. And I appreciate his candidness and I really think is reflective of the voter anxiety on major investments that some of us believe need to be made in order for -- to have the infrastructure in place that we need to have mobility and move people around our jurisdictions, our communities. I'd say that the -- we have in Arlington (unintelligible) a car-free diet. If you want people to lose 2,000 pounds in one day by leaving your car at home.

TEJADASo our angle is we want to incentivize transit use. And the studies have shown over and over again that a steady ride on a streetcar, the light rail, it's what entices many users who typically will not use it -- public transportation. It does create and spur for economic development and protects affordable housing. In the case of -- which for us I had -- remember, you're hearing this from someone who started out not enthusiastic about the streetcar, but rolled up my sleeves and said, look, how can we devise a plan to protect all of the affordable housing? And if we're able to do that, I'm head-in first. if you were able to do that, I'm head-in first.

NNAMDIRunning out of time, Martin Di Caro, fear facts officials were especially critical of the decision not to build the streetcar projects. What impact will the lack of a streetcar line have on their plans to redevelop Bailey's Crossroads?

CAROI think the issues -- and you're right, they were caught off guard. Everyone was. No one saw this coming. From reliable sources that Jay Fisette just a week or so ago was telling supporters of the streetcar that he was onboard with them. So this floored everyone. But the issue that folks in Fairfax at Bailey's Crossing are the same ones that they're going to be facing in Arlington right now, a bigger issue here. So if streetcar is not the way to approach dealing with affordable housing, expected population and job growth, managing transportation networks so your streets don't get choked by cars, what's next? Then what will it be?

CAROIs it going to be bus rapid transit? Well, we've already articulated that that's unlikely on Columbia Pike. So what will the answer be? How are you going to attract young professionals with excellent jobs to an area in a very competitive region if you don't have a workable transit system there? That's the question that all sides are going to have to tackle moving forward.

NNAMDIWell, let me put that question to Walter Tejada. Walter Tejada, what happens now? Is there any way the streetcar plans will be resurrected?

TEJADAWell, I never was one to go where the political winds seem to be blowing, as Dave knows. Once I do my homework and study what the best practices are and what works best and go through a lengthy public process, I think it means something is significant to me, this is a legitimate public process that took place to select a streetcar as the alternative option that the community wants. I think that from here on our credibility will be suffering quite negatively.

TEJADAI agree with my colleagues in Fairfax board supervisors on their comments that I've heard them say. They have reason to be upset. This is a regional project and it may be generations before we have a significant amount of money that would be invested in our area and at a time when we need options to move more people. We are victims of our own success. We have a lot of good things going on. Lots of good people want to come here. People don't want to come here just to start out and then move away somewhere. They want to stay here also. So we need to then devise these strategies to help us increase economic development, create jobs while enticing people to ride transportation options that are not in the car.

TEJADASo, you know, the conversation will have to go on but as of me, I do not go where the political wind seems to be blowing as some people like to do. I want to stick to my core beliefs. I do have convictions and I will look forward to dive into the conversation and see what else can be done.

NNAMDIThat's Walter Tejada.

TEJADABut I still remain a supporter of streetcars.

NNAMDIWalter Tejada is an Arlington County board member. Martin Di Caro is WAMU 88.5's transportation reporter. Thank you both for joining us. "The Kojo Nnamdi Show" is produced by Michael Martinez, Ingalisa Schrobsdorff, Tayla Burney, Kathy Goldgeier and Elizabeth Weinstein. Brendan Sweeney is the managing producer. Our engineer today is Timothy Olmsted. Natalie Yuravlivker is on the phones. Thank you all for listening. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.