MR. KOJO NNAMDIFrom WAMU 88.5 at American University in Washington, welcome to "The Kojo Nnamdi Show," connecting your neighborhood with the world. It's Food Wednesday. It's the food science that fuels Olympic athletes. When a sprinter or a swimmer walks up to the starting line, there are thousands of variables that could end up affecting whether they end up on the medal podium hearing their national anthem. But one of the most important may be decisions they make at the cafeteria in the hours, days and even years before the event.

MR. KOJO NNAMDIMost elite athletes adhere strictly to sophisticated diets, a unique balance of proteins, carbs and fats tailored to their body types in their unique events. In the days before an event, some simply pile as many calories into their bodies as humanly possible. Gold-medal swimmer Michael Phelps, for instance, famously consumes 12,000 calories a day during training, and sprinter Usain Bolt eats six meals a day.

MR. KOJO NNAMDIBut most athletes follow a balance much closer to us mere mortals. This Food Wednesday, we're exploring food as fuel, the science of sports nutrition and how insights from top athletes can apply to our dinner table. Joining us in studio is Jean Gutierrez. She's a professor in the Department of Exercise Science in the School of Public Health at George Washington University. She's also a competitive powerlifter and figure competitor. Jean Gutierrez, thank you for joining us.

PROF. JEAN GUTIERREZThank you for having me.

NNAMDIJoining us by phone from studios at U.C. Davis is Liz Applegate, director of sports nutrition at the University of California at Davis and a faculty member in the Nutrition Department. She's written the "Fridge Wisdom" nutrition column in Runner's World for 25 years and has written six books on nutrition. Liz Applegate, thank you for joining us.

PROF. LIZ APPLEGATEIt's a pleasure to be here. Thank you.

NNAMDIIt's a Food Wednesday conversation that you, too, can join by calling 800-433-8850. You could also go to our website, kojoshow.org. If you'd like to join the conversation, send us a tweet, @kojoshow, or email to kojo@wamu.org. Liz Applegate, I'll start with you. The London Summer Olympics begin next week, and athletes from around the world are already converging on the Olympic Village, making their final preparations for competition.

NNAMDIAs viewers on TV, we never see athletes go through these pre-event preparations, and we rarely see how organizers cater to them. But it turns out that one of the most critical parts of this whole process is the Olympic cafeteria. Give us a sense of how athletes and organizers are thinking about food right now.

APPLEGATEWell, actually, the whole, you know, notion of how do we feed these hundreds of athletes from around the world to experience, and are used to, so many different cuisines started a couple of years ago. And each of the countries with athletes have let that committee know in London what types of foods that they would like available.

APPLEGATEThey do have the system from the Beijing Olympics in the London games where they literally have hundreds of recipes to appeal to athletes from Greece, from different countries in Africa, of course, the U.S., their home country of Great Britain, so they really try to cater to what the athletes need. It is a tight ship. The food safety to food ingredients are of the utmost concern. And these athletes are fed well. A lot of thought goes in it.

NNAMDIIt's my understanding, Jean, that you have done a study on this.

GUTIERREZWell, I've recently read a study done...

NNAMDIOh, OK.

GUTIERREZ...by Pelly out of Australia. And what's really interesting is that when the Olympic Games were brought back to Athens in the late 1800s, they only served the dignitaries, and the athletes were on their own for food. And it was really with the kind of construction -- the earliest construction of what we now have as the modern Olympic Village where they started to feed athletes at the facilities there, and their -- this paper just kind of goes through how these preferences from countries have changed over time.

GUTIERREZAnd what's really interesting is that, in the early and mid-20th century, athletes preferred tremendous amounts of protein because they thought that was what fueled the body during exercise, which we now know isn't true, that, on average, athletes would consume up to eight servings of meat a day -- eight servings. Can you -- I couldn't even imagine eating that much. So some had more, some had less, so it's really changed over time.

NNAMDIBack to the part where some of the spectators got fed better than the athletes, that was in the 18th century you said.

GUTIERREZWell, no, in the 19th...

NNAMDINineteenth.

GUTIERREZ...century, like when the Olympics kind of went away for a little while. When they came back, they came back to Athens, and the athletes didn't get fed. It was just the dignitaries who were there.

NNAMDILiz Applegate, talk a little bit about how that whole process has changed since you have been advising elite athletes.

APPLEGATEWell, I've been in the business, so to speak, for, you know, over 25 years and was a professional triathlete for a number of years. And in that, what we have discovered, and as Jean mentioned, is we were really understanding the nuances quite well of how much carbohydrate not just an athlete needs but what type of athlete, the amount of time they're spending in their particular training but just -- as well as training intensity.

APPLEGATESo if they spend, as a marathon runner, doing different types of workouts, we can titrate the amount of carbohydrate that would be optimal, the amount of protein, what are some key nutrients, like antioxidants, items that we would find in fruits and certain vegetables that they should be getting more of to help them recover. So we're using science that has developed over the past several years to really support these athletes in a positive way to optimize their performance.

NNAMDIHave you changed your diet to try and increase your own athletic performance or just feel more energized? Call us. What worked for you? 800-433-8850. Send us a tweet, @kojoshow, or email to kojo@wamu.org, or you can send a -- you can simply go to our website, kojoshow.org, and join the conversation there. You both work at the college level with elite athletes. When we look at competitive athletics, the diets of a top swimmer will always be different than a long-distance runner, but there do seem to be common denominators at play, right? At a basic level, what are they, Jean?

GUTIERREZAt the basic level for all human beings, it's really coming to be that we know a plant-based diet is the most important foundation to have in your diet, so just really basing your diet on whole grains, fruits, vegetables and other plant-source protein. So a lot of plant foods at the base. So for all athletes, it's really where we recommend that they just get a plant-based diet for micronutrients and everything else. And then from there, the diet can be tailored to meet specific athletic goals for different types of athletes.

NNAMDICare to comment, Liz?

APPLEGATEWell, I look at what athletes need in the way of -- I break it down similar, what servings of different fruits, vegetables, grains. I look at protein sources and then manipulate the amounts, the number of meals. You might look at a swimmer as eating a lot more calories and more frequently.

APPLEGATEBut oftentimes -- I just sat with a gymnast yesterday, and we also talked about eating six times a day and, of course, much smaller quantities because she was -- weighed just under 100 pounds but certainly was burning a lot of calories during her workouts, and we needed to really move around some of the timing so that she could meet her needs for calories, protein and all the other key nutrients for performance.

NNAMDIWell, I mentioned Michael Phelps at the top of the broadcast. Four years ago, it was reported that he ate 12,000 calories a day, including a breakfast that consisted of three fried-egg sandwiches, two cups of coffee, a five-egg omelet, a bowl of grits, three slices of French toast, three chocolate chip pancakes. It all sounds completely outrageous, but he spends five, maybe six hours a day, six days a week in the pool training. And I suppose there's a bit of science hiding in that huge diet. Is there, Liz?

APPLEGATEWell, absolutely. Michael does what I call the garbage disposal theory. Just put something in and, you know, those calories are there. The gentleman is burning a lot of calories, as many of the other swimmers are. They're all about putting in yards or meters and hours of it so that they're -- you know, have tremendous caloric expenditures. He is meeting his need for carbohydrate, for protein.

APPLEGATEHe certainly is getting an array of vitamins and minerals. I, as -- if I was his, you know, nutrition support person, I would fine-tune that breakfast a little bit to contain some more optimal fruits and some other key nutrients, but he gets it all. You know, when you cast a wide net, he's going to get the nutrients he needs. For someone consuming fewer calories, you really have to be a bit more careful as to making sure that they are meeting their needs for some of these trace nutrients that some athletes miss out on.

NNAMDIJean Gutierrez?

GUTIERREZYeah, I just want to chime in and say that for other types of athletes, especially some strength-power events like Olympic lifting where there is a weight cap, and then also their activity doesn't go on for hours and hours and hours. So, in that case, the athletes might even be the same weight or same body composition as Michael Phelps, but the diet they need to take in, in order to meet their athletic goals, say, at the right body composition would be much less.

NNAMDI800-433-8850 is the number to call. Are you raising a teenager or a young athlete? How do you think about feeding that person? 800-433-8850 or send us a tweet, @kojoshow. By way of contrast, Liz, researchers have studied the diets of top long-distance runners in Kenya, and it turns out that they're consuming an entirely different range of food from, oh, say, an American swimmer or even an American long-distance runner like they are. Is that correct?

APPLEGATEIt's correct, and this is where it's so important to look culturally at different types of athletes and look at their traditional diet that may be much lower in the intake of what we consider traditional lean protein sources that they may go to more root vegetables and legumes and some grains and really eat somewhat of a sparse, not a varied diet and certainly not one that contains, you know, chips and chocolate chip pancakes and snacky foods that a lot of athletes from industrialized nations are consuming. So it can be -- it's dramatically different.

NNAMDIOn to the telephones. Here is Dana in Hyattsville, Md. Dana, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

DANAYes. Thanks very much. I want to make three points. Number one, I'm thrilled that there are female panelists and talking about scientific aspects like nutrition and how the body processes calories. I'm thrilled that they're both females. Number two is...

NNAMDIThey're also both athletes.

DANAWell, yes, that, too. And I like how they describe their work to a layperson like me can understand it very, very easily. Number two, I participate in a sort of desk surfing. That's D-E-S-K surfing.

NNAMDIYeah.

DANAAnd during the day, I need to kind of level out my energy so that I'm not starving by lunch and then on a full tummy in a coma by 2 o'clock. So what struck me about what your panel said...

NNAMDIThanks for describing my routine.

DANASometimes, I do that, but not always. I like what they're saying about several small meals per day. That's what I do, and I find that I've got the same level of energy pretty much from morning until the end of the workday, and I ascribe it to several small meals throughout the day. If you have any comments to that before I go on to my third point, I'll pause.

NNAMDIWell, here's Jean Gutierrez.

GUTIERREZI have some comments about your desk surfing. I think that's -- you know, I know it's not good to sit all day, and there's so much research coming out about how, even for people who are training for marathons, even getting all those miles in, if they, for the rest of the day, sit down and watch TV all day or sit down at a desk, that has negative impacts on the health, even though they are exercising regularly.

GUTIERREZSo, now, on my own, I'm in the Department of Exercise Science at GW, and about, I would say, three-quarters of my colleagues have now switched to standing workstations, which sounds insane, but, you know, you think that would fatigue you so much more. But there they are standing all day, and they say that it really helps them to have more energy. One of my colleagues was having some issues with her blood glucose, and she said that it's even down a little bit by standing all day. So that's one suggestion, and that's the extreme end.

GUTIERREZAnd I also know some people who have a standing station and a sitting station in the same office and alternate between the two. Another suggestion is that it's really just -- if you can just break up that sitting a little bit throughout the day. So the way some people do this is to set a timer once an hour so that you can get up and just walk around and do something for five minutes. Even though it doesn't seem like a lot, that little break in sitting throughout the day can really increase your energy level and also increase your metabolism.

NNAMDILiz Applegate, do feel that sports nutrition has any relevance, any guide, if you will, for everyday nutrition?

APPLEGATEWell, for someone who's desk surfing -- and, unfortunately, that's not an Olympic sport this year.

NNAMDIShould be.

APPLEGATEIt -- you know, it would be wonderful for a lot of us. I think the key for -- what Dana was saying about the several small meals, for a lot of people, they lose sight on the value of small. And they end up consuming more calories than they realize. So just like for an athlete who's titrating the number of calories to make sure they're meeting their needs and not going overboard or under, same goes for someone who's trying to manage a full-time job at their desk and stay energized.

APPLEGATESo it's really keeping an eye on and facing what is it that I'm eating, what's the calorie count, am I getting what I'm -- what my body needs, or am I overdoing it?

NNAMDIDana, you had another question. Dana?

DANAYes. Thank you. And the advice about getting off my rear end. You're exactly right. I need to set the timer, and I will do that. The third point is I have a very athletic young daughter, and we've made a commitment to non-processed foods. She does not go to fast food restaurants ever. My friends don't believe me, but she never does. I don't feed her that. Everything is fresh, cooked -- she packs her lunch every day. And I'm telling you, when she's on team sports, her energy and endurance is so much more than other kids that I know are eating those horrible things called Lunchables.

NNAMDII think you're a candidate for sainthood, actually.

DANAIt's not easy. But, you know, I made this pledge to feed her well.

NNAMDIDana, thank you very much for your call. And I guess both of our panelists would say, well, that's a good thing, but very difficult to get a teenager to do.

GUTIERREZIt takes commitment, but I have a hilarious little anecdote. I did a diabetes-related study with one of my colleagues, and her daughter was aware of this study and became very concerned about diabetes. So now whenever her dad, who is at risk for diabetes, tries to eat a piece of cake, she says, Dad, you can't have that. You're going to get diabetes. So sometimes kids are the ones who drive the health behaviors in the house.

NNAMDIBut, Liz Applegate, it underscores the point that a lot of topflight athletes are, in fact, teenagers.

APPLEGATEAbsolutely. A lot of these -- you know, I'm working with one swimmer that went to Olympic trials. And, you know, it's kind of hard to control teenage eating behavior, and they do need more calories than somebody that's just a few years older because their metabolism is at a higher rate. And I applaud Dana for setting a great example for getting this eating habit going early. And it's no surprise that her daughter feels more energetic.

APPLEGATEAnd if everyone out there could listen to that, it does make a difference how you eat. It really affects your energy levels, whether you're an athlete or you're just trying to make it through your desk surfing day.

NNAMDIDana, thank you very much for your call. We're going to take a short break. When we come back, we'll continue this Food Wednesday conversation on nutrition for athletic performance and everyday life. Inviting your calls at 800-433-8850. Do you see food as fuel? Do athletes have a healthier understanding of food than the rest of us? 800-433-8850. If the phone lines are busy, you can go to our website, kojo@wamu.org, or send us a tweet, @kojoshow, email to kojo@wamu.org. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.

NNAMDIWelcome back to our Food Wednesday conversation about nutrition and athletic performance as it relates to nutrition also and everyday life. We're talking with Jean Gutierrez. She's a professor in the Department of Exercise Science in the School of Public Health at George Washington University. She's also a competitive powerlifter and figure competitor. Liz Applegate is the director of Sport Nutrition at the University of California at Davis and a faculty member in the Nutrition Department.

NNAMDIShe's written "Fridge Wisdom" nutrition column in Runner's World for 25 years, and she's written six books on nutrition. The world's fastest man, Usain Bolt, has a very, well, interesting diet. He is said to eat chicken nuggets on the day of the race, but he also claims that his life-long diet of Jamaican yams or sweet potatoes has helped him reach peak performance. Sweet potatoes are among a group of foods that are often called superfoods. Why are superfoods supposed to be so good, Liz Applegate?

APPLEGATEWell, the notion is that foods like yams or blueberries, goji berries, you name the wholesome fruit or vegetable, or even grain, contain a whole array of compounds, and we call them phytonutrients or phytochemicals. And these are plant substances that we know have some action in the body that may reduce inflammation. They may protect from muscle injury, promote muscle recovery following a tough workout.

APPLEGATEYou know, I think Usain Bolt, obviously, is a very gifted athlete, and I love the fact that he talks about diet. But is it true that, you know, eating yam has been helpful for him in terms of performance? It certainly is a great addition of carbohydrate and keratins which are some of these helpful compounds. And I tell athletes to eat not just what Usain Bolt eats but an array of these different types of foods because that's really what's going to contribute to overall top performance and as well as healthy lifestyle and reducing chronic disease risk.

NNAMDISo you do not emphasize so-called superfoods to your athletes?

APPLEGATEWell, I emphasize certain types. I look at how they're eating, and if I don't see any kind of fruit and they're counting green M&M's as a vegetable, I'm concerned. And I always talk to them about, well, let's get in -- I have a minimum of three to four pieces of fruit. I want them to have variety. So I look really at various fruits and vegetables as all being superfoods and giving them that idea that you've got to have these in your diet for better performance. But I don't emphasize a single one such as yams or blueberries over everything else.

NNAMDIJean Gutierrez.

GUTIERREZI just have a comment. Not that I support eating chicken nuggets for athletic competition, but this has been an issue with Olympic athletes over the last 100 years. People are used to what they're used to eating. So making a dietary change immediately before an event, if you're used to eating a given food, changing that food right before competition is a bad idea. And even strategies to, say, have glycogen supercompensation or carb-loading, as it's commonly called, should be practiced before the event.

GUTIERREZSo there's -- it's very important, and this is something that translates to regular, you know, average recreational exercisers very well. You want to stick to foods that you're familiar with before a race, even, like, a 5k.

NNAMDIAnd, Liz Applegate, I guess Usain Bolt also wants to promote his native Jamaican yams. But we got this question from @BWalks over Twitter, "Don't well-established diets for Olympic athletes unfairly favor rich countries over poorer ones with better access to good food?"

APPLEGATEActually, no, they don't. And that's a good comment because certainly we hear a lot in the news about poor economies and cheap sources of calories and unhealthful diets. For example, eating a lot of fast food and how that shifted in some of the countries like China that are becoming industrialized but still many people not living very well, I disagree that it does because look at some of the countries in Africa, like Kenya, where they're eating very inexpensively.

APPLEGATEAnd these are superb athletes not only obviously because of their diet. They are gifted runners and train accordingly very rigorously. So, really, any type of cuisine, even if you have bare minimum to spend on food, you certainly can find healthful foods that will make up an Olympic diet.

NNAMDIOn to Amy in Silver Spring, Md. Amy, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

AMYHi, thanks for having me. So I want to shift it from Olympic Athletes to 13-year-old kids. I have a 13-year-old who is really active. He plays competitive soccer and practices here in the D.C. area four times a week, games on the weekends, and he's lean. And I follow a plant-based vegetarian diet, an anti-inflammatory protocol when I developed a gluten intolerance, and it's been great.

AMYBut I think that, you know, one of the things that I'm struggling with is insuring that he gets enough of the right kind of food. He loves fruits and vegetables and has made an association between healthful eating and higher performance, which I'm thrilled to see. But I really do look for guidelines, and I'll tell you I've been talking to his pediatrician about this, and I'm getting nothing.

AMYAnd it's really frustrating because, you know, a lot of his counterparts and friends are eating what I would call less healthful food options, lots of cooler bags filled with Gatorade and the like. And I just -- my gut tells me he needs more than that. And I would love to see some sort of guidelines for it. And I haven't been able to find any. So any tips, suggestions would be awesome.

NNAMDIJean?

GUTIERREZWell, it sounds like he really has a great base for a diet, and he really prefers healthful food. So that's awesome. In terms of this -- his specific needs, it's really going to be individual to him in the activities that he's doing. It is good for him to have some sort -- if you're not comfortable with the sports beverages, though, it is important for him to have access to some kind of carbohydrate during those activities.

GUTIERREZSo any quickly absorbed carbohydrate is good. Bananas are very quickly absorbed. They're a natural source of carbohydrates. Also, not every athletic person can tolerate milk while they're exercising, but also -- or immediately after their exercise. It's another good source of nutrients to support activity.

NNAMDIAmy, thank you for your call. And, Liz, before you add anything, allow me to bring Kelly from South Riding, Va. in because she has a similar question. Kelly, you are on the air. Go ahead, please.

KELLYHi. Yes. I have three of these teenage boys. They're 16, 14 and 12. They're primarily swimmers, but at any given time, they're doing cross-country, tennis, lacrosse, you know, whatever they can pick up. And they have gotten -- they're not junk food junkies. They're really trying to eat healthy. I try and keep everything on hand. The -- they are always hungry. And it's not just the teenage boy syndrome.

KELLYThey're just always hungry, so my go-to is to keep a drawer full of apples and a pot of red beans and rice 'cause I figure that's kind -- you know, those are healthy, and hopefully that will fill up their legs. But I'm wondering, is there a source where I can figure out, if they're always hungry, is it -- is there something that they're missing in their diet? Like, should I be feeding them more protein or more, you know, I don't know, more beans or something like that? 'Cause it just -- it seems like there's a deficiency there.

NNAMDILiz Applegate.

APPLEGATEWell, there are a lot of things going on here. Number one, you do have teenager -- teenage boys that need a lot more calories. We're looking at 3,000 calories. Then you add all the activity. They could easily be at 5,000 calories per day. And while I compliment you on providing apples and beans, it can be problematic that you are providing such higher fiber foods that may be more filling initially and that their calorie needs aren't met. So I would advise providing some higher calorie foods that would satisfy them.

APPLEGATEAnd, for example, trail mix is a great way that you can, you know, that they can, in a small handful, get nuts and chunks of dried fruit and even putting soy nuts in there, so they get a protein source. These boys need easily 70 grams to just over 100 grams of protein every day. They should be getting that at each of -- getting that divided up amongst several meals in a day. So there are some great resources online, and I recommended that you go to the -- to eatright.org, the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics website.

APPLEGATEAnd within that, you can find sports nutrition information through one of the special practice groups. And there are also some other resources. And I'd be happy if you email me at the university. I can provide you with more of those. But being ravenous teenage athletes, it really can be challenging. And you're doing some great things, and you just want to make sure they stay fueled.

KELLYCan I ask you a question about peanut butter? Is that a good source as well?

APPLEGATEFor protein, it's not spectacular, and it's not a high-quality protein source. It's a great way to add calories, though, so, for example, giving them a great whole grain cereal in the morning, couple of bowls. I'd have a couple of eggs in there as well, toast with peanut butter, couple pieces of fruit or -- and/or juice to go along with it. That would be a great way to start out their morning.

NNAMDIAnd, Kelly, we'll make sure that we get some of Liz Applegate's recommendations and post them on our website at kojoshow.org, so you'll be able to find them there. Thank you very much for your call. We got an email from Lisa, who says, "Teenage -- teenagers, especially girls, can be susceptible to eating disorders, which are life-threatening, can look like healthy eating, but in reality encompass over-exercise and under-nutrition."

NNAMDI"I hope the guests can comment on the importance of making sure parents and coaches are aware of this problem and ensure that kids are eating enough, and in girls, maintaining normal menstruation." Jean, you compete in weightlifting and figure competitions, which is -- it exists at a kind of interesting space when it comes to questions of body image.

NNAMDIA lot of time, athletes are aspiring to look like something or to get their body into a kind of shape that it just cannot get into. It seems, as the email underscores, that there are all kinds of health questions lurking just underneath the surface here. What do you think?

GUTIERREZThis is such a complicated issue, and it's a big concern, even for younger athletes. And a lot of these Olympic athletes are younger and teenagers, and they do need to eat at certain way and, in some cases, have a body composition that's, you know, lower in fat and higher in muscle than the average person. So they will have to eat differently, and many -- even collegiate athletes do lose their menstrual cycles while they're competing. Then they come back later. It is considered a risk factor for osteoporosis.

GUTIERREZSo with athletes that I've worked with who are younger and very concerned, if it's not a physique sport, they really don't need to be focused on their physique primarily. They need to be focused on their performance. So I've just tried to encourage these young women to really focus on what makes them play well, what makes them feel good. I had one basketball player I worked with come up to me and say, Jean, how do I get six-pack abs? And I said, I don't think you need six-pack abs right now. I think you need to eat.

GUTIERREZAnd so it's tricky 'cause in the types of activities I've done at power lifting, which is reaching a specific weight and being as strong as you can be at that weight, you do want to be lean. And also, physique competition is all about being lean and seeing the muscle that you've built. And without eating a specific way, you can't reach those goals. So for those types of events, I don't think children should be doing them. I don't support physique competition for anyone young -- who's not an adult.

NNAMDIHere is Chris in Kensington, Md. Chris, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

CHRISI had a similar question to your emailer in that what -- what's your experience on the Olympic level with males with eating disorders? I'm a former cross-country -- collegiate cross-country course coach, and I see athletes, both males and females, with eating disorders. I also coach currently, and I see eating disorders all around. I'm also an athlete in recovery from anorexia and over-exercising. And being a male, I'm kind of a minority, but I was wondering if you had any experience with males with eating disorders at the higher caliber level.

NNAMDILiz Applegate.

APPLEGATEAbsolutely. In fact, in -- at our program, we have a whole sort of three-way assessment where we work with our support psychology services. So we have a counseling center and our team physicians, and the athletes come and see me. And I agree with you, Chris. It is an issue that goes across genders, across sports. And for a lot of athletes coming into the college atmosphere, they're losing control in their life.

APPLEGATETheir parents aren't there. You know, they're -- it's big school, lots of demands. And they find that controlling their weight and what they eat is what they can do, and that's their site of control. And it's something that takes some awareness, open talking. There are resources out there. Many of these universities will reach out to local running clubs and some of these other sport clubs to help facilitate some of -- some athletes getting into discussion groups, and maybe they might need even more serious one-on-one or involve one-on-one treatment. So it's out there.

APPLEGATEAnd, Chris, you comment that men are a minority. Well, fortunately, men are feeling a bit more comfortable talking about it. And we're realizing in so many sports that there is a sort of somewhat different approach to eating disorders for men, but it's there. And even talking about it right now on the show hopefully is reaching out to some people so that they can feel more comfortable to get some help, if that's what's needed for them.

NNAMDIChris, thank you very much for your call. This seems like a critical question, Jean, for parents of young people. Is there a danger that young athletes will begin to view food as nothing more than fuel, that food science itself can lead to a sort of dysfunctional view on food? Do elite athletes even like food? Or are you trained to see food -- so trained to see food as fuel that you end up with a dysfunctional view of food?

GUTIERREZI think this would really be dependent upon the athlete and the type of sport they're in. I think that, for a lot of athletes who have to manage their weight, they do have disordered body images as a result of the way they've eaten for a competition. And a good example are some boxers I've worked with. If they gain even 10 pounds beyond their competition weight, they'll feel like they're fat. And they'll say, I'm fat, I'm chunky.

GUTIERREZAnd so -- and it does go across genders, and I'm glad that caller brought that up 'cause it's true. Everyone can struggle with this. And just even -- I don't know about Liz, but just learning so much about food components and nutrition, sometimes you do lose sight of the fact that it's a meal and it's something to be enjoyed.

NNAMDIYou're supposed to enjoy it, yes.

GUTIERREZAnd I remember one time I was -- you know, tuna is a really easy source of fast protein, right? You open it, you pour over a salad, done. It's very easy. So in grad school, I'd eat packets and cans and tons of tuna and salmon from a packet, and I don't enjoy that. It was a means to an end. And I remember I was sitting there, eating a packet of just dry tuna one day. And I said, you know what, I'm not doing this anymore.

GUTIERREZI'm not enjoying this. You know, I only get to eat so many calories a day. From now on, I'm going to indulge a little.

NNAMDILiz, is there a way of incorporating enjoyment of food in this process?

APPLEGATEWell, what we do for our collegian athletes is provide them with recipes, and they're -- we have a rule of five ingredients or less -- and getting them involved in tasting food. We have cooking demonstrations because there is life after collegian athletics. And they go on and hopefully have a full, vital life where they may still compete, but certainly stay fit, and so to transition that thought of food just as fuel to food as enjoyment, food as part of your whole, healthful lifestyle. So that's how we approach it.

NNAMDIJean?

GUTIERREZYeah. I taught in a cooking school for about a year when I was working on my master's degree, and I also have used these skills to help athletes learn how to cook. And it's so important because a lot of athletes won't go on to be athletes forever. They need to learn how to cook, how to make their own food and how to stay healthy. But it was great 'cause I made -- I was in Texas, and I made fajitas for the athletes in a healthier way, you know. And they -- you know, you know it's a good meal when the room goes silent. They're all there eating and enjoying it. It was really great.

NNAMDIGot to take a short break. When we come back, if you have called, stay on the line. We'll try to get to your call, but the lines are busy. So send us email to kojo@wamu.org or go to our website, kojoshow.org. Join the conversation there. Of course, you can always send us a tweet, @kojoshow. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.

NNAMDIIt's Food Wednesday, and we're talking nutrition for athletic performance and daily healthy living with Liz Applegate, director of sports nutrition at the University of California at Davis and a faculty member in the nutrition department. Jean Gutierrez is a professor in the Department of Exercise Science in the School of Public Health at George Washington University, and she's a competitive powerlifter and figure competitor. You can communicate with us by email at kojo@wamu.org. Or if you have a question or comment, you can send us a tweet, @kojoshow.

NNAMDIA number of elite athletes at the amateur and professional level have turned to vegetarian or vegan diets. From a sports nutrition perspective, what kind of challenges does that entail? Do vegetarian athletes have to be more focused upon the nutritional value of their food than athletes who eat meat? Is it more challenging for vegan or vegetarian athletes to reach the caloric needs of their sports? We have an email from Dennis, who simply asked, "Can a vegan diet contribute to optimal athletic performance?" First you, Jean.

GUTIERREZIt depends on the vegetarian diet. There are many different types. I'll start with vegetarianism, where you still have eggs and dairy included in the diet. In that case, most athletes will be fine. They're getting plenty of protein. Micronutrient zinc and iron may be an issue in that case, so they -- they'll have to kind of maybe get tested and watch out for anemia, which could be a concern in that case.

GUTIERREZFor vegan competitors, they will have to put a little more work into their diet, just like all vegans do. I know many students especially who approach a vegan diet and decide to start one without consulting with a physician or a dietician first. And I think that's very important for all people to do.

NNAMDILiz Applegate, have you found that athletes in some sports are more inclined to be vegetarian or vegan?

APPLEGATEI absolutely see that. And, typically, the female athletes in, say, cross-country or gymnastics will take this approach. And, you know, good comment, Jean, that you got to really think about what it is that you're doing. And oftentimes what an athlete will do is take the meat off their plate and spread peanut butter on a piece of bread. And that's just not going to cut it as far as making sure they get adequate protein. So I like to go through, you know, literally a shopping list with them. Where are -- what are their -- identify their main protein sources, soy. Are they going to consume soy milk, beans and rice?

APPLEGATEWhat are they going to do? And they have to know how to cook these foods because they may ethically have decided to go on a vegan diet. Economically, they may have decided, all sorts of reasons. But I go right to the source, and that is, do you know what you're doing? Do you know how to prepare these foods, and do you enjoy eating these foods? So it certainly can be a healthful way to eat and perform, but they have to be wise about it.

NNAMDIA lot of Chinese Olympians have turned to vegetarian diets in order to safely pass the Olympic drug test. Why are these athletes having to change their diet so close to the games? Liz?

APPLEGATEWell, the issue has been the use of an anabolic hormone in livestock production, both in China as well as Mexico and a few other countries. And it's allowed by their government, and their food-processing rules don't prohibit it. We do here in the U.S., but Clenbuterol is the concern, an anabolic steroid that has been found in trace amounts in meat that is manufactured or grown, so to speak, in China.

NNAMDISo you're saying the chickens are on steroids, so the athletes might be therefore...

APPLEGATEWell, the beef is absolutely.

NNAMDIOh, the beef.

APPLEGATEAnd so then that trace amount gets into their system, and then they test positive for that anabolic hormone. And so there's been quite a bit of hubbub about it that many of the athletes aren't doing that well. And it actually demonstrates that, oftentimes, this is one of those take the meat off the plate, and some of the athletes aren't putting in good protein sources, the volleyball team versus the swim team, in how they approach it.

APPLEGATEOne of the teams is using protein powders from soy and from milk protein to try to avoid any kind of animal protein source, and they're doing fine. But some of the other athletes, like volleyball, are not because they're scrambling for some whole protein sources, and the athletes are burning so many calories and are in need of a good, you know, 80 to 120 grams of protein. And they're not getting it.

NNAMDIJean.

GUTIERREZI just want to chime in on Clenbuterol. It's a beta-agonist, so it support -- it targets certain receptors on both muscle and fat tissue. And, as Liz mentioned, it's anabolic. So it actually promotes protein synthesis in the muscle while simultaneously targeting another receptor on the fat tissue that promotes lipolysis or fat burning, so it does both at one time. And this is -- it's an -- it was an asthma medication for horses, but it's also abused in -- by a number of different athletes who want to be more muscular and leaner. And so in physique contests especially, it's a very commonly abused drug.

NNAMDIHere is Jack in Washington, D.C. Jack, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

JACKThanks, Kojo. Yeah, my question is, as an aging athlete -- I'm in my mid-40's, but I'm still playing ice hockey with 20-somethings sometimes. And what can I do on game days and then the rest of the time to keep my energy up but also, you know, well, basically to perform, is my question?

NNAMDIHide the younger guy's skates would be my suggestion. But, anyway...

NNAMDI...here -- Jean Gutierrez, care to respond to that?

GUTIERREZThis is a really great question. I've worked with a lot of -- just in kind of one-on-one consulting with women who are, you know, going through the changes that happen over time. And it seems that they really notice, like, big changes in their body composition and in the way they feel. And so one of the main things that I'll do with women -- this isn't necessarily nutrition but really teach them how to switch up their workouts and keep variety in so they can stay interested and build more activity in just different routines into their diet.

GUTIERREZAnd then also, you know, we -- our metabolisms go down as we age, so we might not feel as energetic, but we also have to often change our diets to contain less energy.

NNAMDIAnd before I ask you to respond, Liz -- Jack, thank you for call -- let's go to Mark in Olney, Md. who has a similar question. Mark, your turn.

MARKHey, Kojo. Yeah, I'm another aging athlete. I'm a runner, and I've really enjoyed Liz's columns in Runner's World magazine for many years. But I have noticed also that my performance has changed over years. I've been running for...

NNAMDITell me about it.

MARKYeah.

MARKI've been running for about 40 years now, and the energy level is different. And I've noticed -- like, even when I'm exercising, like, on long-distance runs, I never used to have to worry about eating anything. But, now, I'm having to actually eat during a race, and that's something new for me. And I was wondering if maybe Liz could comment on that.

NNAMDIAnd forget about heat. We also got this email from Ann. "Do you have any diet recommendations for older athletes, late 50s, to keep up stamina and strength while working out on a daily basis -- swimming, running, et cetera -- at a fairly high level?" Liz.

APPLEGATEWell, to Mark, to Jack and Ann, I compliment you all. I guess I'm in the same category. I'm 56. And I have a 100-mile bike race on Saturday. And I'll tell you, if we compared our diets to what we were doing 20 to 40 years ago, yes, we would see that we're eating fewer calories, and we do need to make some changes. And what I recommend, especially for you, Mark, as you're noticing you're needing to fuel during a run, you should. You need to have carbohydrates, roughly 30 grams or so every hour, and don't look at this as a weakness.

APPLEGATEIt's what your body needs. And you were just, you know, a stronger athlete when you were younger. You still are a great athlete. And it's just taking the time to look at quality calories, is what I emphasize for athletes that are more mature, is the way I like to say it rather than aging, and that they, you know, look to ways that you can improve the quality of your diet by choosing really high-quality lean sources of protein. What are you doing for fruits and vegetables? You don't have as much room for some of these junkie foods.

APPLEGATEAnd I say yay to coffee, you know? It is something that, for a lot of people a source of caffeine prior to exercise, it's more than -- it's safe, and it is going to help improve your endurance. It'll help improve your reaction time. So, Jack, in ice hockey, as you know, that's so important. And, you know, we -- just be happy we're still moving, and we're still moving better than a lot of young people.

NNAMDIMark, thank you very much for your call. Some studies suggest that food may not be enough for athletic success, Jean, leaving coaches and athletes to turn to supplements for that extra competitive edge. What's your take on supplement use? Is it the final element to incorporate on the elite level? Or is it also helpful for someone who leisurely exercises every day?

GUTIERREZWell, first and foremost, I think I would definitely support having a solid diet, but there are some supplements that the experts, the American College of Sports Medicine and the Academy for Nutrition and Dietetics, both support and really have said that the evidence is strong enough to support their use if people choose to use them. One of those, as Liz mentioned, is caffeine. So caffeine is an effective ergogenic aid, but it can also keep you up night. It gives some people the jitters.

GUTIERREZAnd another interesting point is if -- that you're a routine caffeine user, that same dose isn't going to boost your performance anymore. So you have to use it strategically, and I would -- I don't know for sure, but I would bet that the athletes competing in the Olympics have plans for staying under the limit and using caffeine strategically. Another example of a very effective supplement for a lot of people is creatine.

GUTIERREZSo creatine is really effective for improving strength and strength power athletes and improving muscle mass, so there are a few supplements that really we are sure are helpful for a lot of people. So if people choose to use those supplements, they can kind of look to the recommendations and use those safely. Most supplements fall into a category which is just neither dangerous nor effective, so they're just a total waste.

NNAMDIHere is Althea (sp?) in Silver Spring, Md. Althea, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

ALTHEAYes, good afternoon. I have a question. I have two daughters who are also high school athletes, but the fact about them is that they are Muslims. Ramadan, the Islamic months of fasting, starts in about a couple of days, and schools tryouts will be starting right in the middle of that.

NNAMDIWe're running out of time very quickly. And, as we pointed out, this is the period of long days.

ALTHEASo basically my question is...

NNAMDIAnd your question is?

ALTHEAYeah, how Muslim athletes can modify their diets during that.

NNAMDILiz Applegate.

APPLEGATEWell, fasting is pretty challenging for athletic performance. And if it's in keeping with the practice, to look to carbohydrate beverages if they're to have fluids that -- I would encourage that because it's going to be challenging for them to perform their best. When they break fast at sundown, to make sure that they get good quality protein sources, high-quality, you know, good carbs, like some whole grains...

NNAMDIAnd I'm afraid that's all the time we have. Liz Applegate, thank you so much for joining us. Liz is the director of sports nutrition at the University of California at Davis and a faculty member in the nutrition department. Jean Gutierrez is a professor in the department of exercise science in the School of Public Health at George Washington University. Thank you both for joining us. And thank you all for listening. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.