MR. KOJO NNAMDIPrince George's County politicians are pushing their chips to the middle of the table in their escalating fight over slot machine gambling. The county council will vote tomorrow on a bill that would essentially ban slots, but some lawmakers say the revenue potential may be too good to refuse at a time when cramped budgets are forcing tough choices about other priorities. And the operators of a troubled race track in Prince George's are making the argument that gambling may be the only way to keep racing in Prince George's alive.

MR. KOJO NNAMDIJoining us to explore what's at stake for the county in this debate is the author of the proposed ban. He is Eric Olson, a member and vice chairman of the Prince George's County Council. He's a Democrat. He represents the county's third district. He joins us by telephone. Eric Olson, thank you for joining us.

MR. ERIC OLSONThank you, Kojo. It's great to be on.

NNAMDIAnd joining us in studio is Matt Bush. He's a reporter for WAMU 88.5 who covers Prince George's County. Matt, glad to have you aboard.

MR. MATT BUSHGlad to be here.

NNAMDIEric Olson, allow me to make the argument that's made essentially or was made by County Executive Rushern Baker the last time he was on this broadcast. Look, we need new sources of revenue. We have to build, at least among other things, a new hospital that's going to cost a great deal of money. I know that there are people who are objecting the slots, but why take it off the table even before we know what our options are? Why did you write this bill, and what's the argument you're making for taking slots off the table?

OLSONWell, thank you. So first, let me say I have a great deal of respect for County Executive Baker and...

NNAMDIBut...

OLSON...have, you know, worked to get him elected for a long time. But I would just say that this bill -- I actually wrote this bill back in 2009, right after the 2008 referendum passed. The referendum was a statewide referendum which identified five sites in the state, none of them -- explicitly, none of them in Prince George's County.

OLSONSo I wrote this bill as introduced it as council bill one in 2009 just as insurance to say that, you know, in the future, if anyone ever tried to put slots in Prince George's, it would keep everybody honest and make sure that they would stay out. That bill, funny enough, didn't go anywhere because everyone kind of laughed at it and said, well, you know, the referendum said no slots in Prince George's. So why would we pass a bill that….

NNAMDIThat's unnecessary, yes.

OLSONBut here we are, Kojo. So -- here we are. So that's why I wrote the bill.

NNAMDIWhat do you mean by here we are?

OLSONWell, it certainly seems like there's an awful lot of attention on bringing slots to Prince George's now only a few years after the referendum.

NNAMDIBut what are the things that you weighed against one another to make the decision to move ahead on this, and where did the potential for revenue fit in to the process of you thinking?

OLSONWell, I mean, first off, I think that, you know, we have a vision for the county, and it's a vision that, you know, I know residents, you know, have shared for a long time, which is we want to expand the economic pie. We want transit-oriented development. We want GSA office tenants. We want private industry. We want, you know, the next, you know, Hilton, the next Lockheed Martin, the next big industries to locate here.

OLSONWe -- this is one of the big reasons why I supported the county executive's economic development incentive fund, a $50 million fund to try to incentivize redevelopment in our established communities as well as transit-oriented development. That's the future that's going to increase the economic pie. We had a whole Envision Prince George's Session, you know, last year, a session -- multiple sessions a year, a year-and-a-half ago where about 1,000 people participated in and, you know, that was the vision for Prince George's County.

OLSONWe have, you know, 14, 15 Metro stations that are underdeveloped, woefully underdeveloped, and we need to put that kind of commercial office and other development there. And I'm not sure that slots would help that effort. I think it actually would hinder.

NNAMDIMatt Bush, voters in Maryland, statewide, supported a referendum a few years ago that paved the way for the state's first slot machine facilities. Where does this Prince George's County debate fit into the state's overall picture when it comes to slots?

BUSHWell, the state has five licenses that they have out now. There are two casinos open already. A third is being built, and they're still bidding out on two others. And, frankly, they're struggling to build the -- or get bidder or operators for the final two licenses. One will go in the city of Baltimore. One will go at Rocky Gap, the resort at Rocky Gap. So they're struggling with this right now.

BUSHSo for them to have a sixth one to come into Prince George's County, there would have to be a statewide initiative, something that would have to be passed in Annapolis. Now, the Senate president, Mike Miller, his district does include a part of Prince George's County. He is trying to help the horse racing industry and would see this as being able to put gambling at a track as a way to help them do that.

BUSHSo, again, it seems very far out that there could be a potential slots casino in Prince George's County 'cause it would take a statewide movement to do that. But, obviously, it's already been approved statewide, at least the first five. So it seemed to be that there would be support to go to a number six.

NNAMDI800-433-8850 is the number to call. How do you feel about the prospect of slots in Prince George's County? Do you sympathize with the council members who are trying to ban them? 800-433-8850. Matt, as I mentioned, County Executive Rushern Baker said a few weeks ago voting to ban slots is shortsighted. The county needs to be open to the idea. But where does the political support for slots come from? And what's the political picture going to look like in tomorrow's vote?

BUSHIt's pretty even right now. Again, a lot of the issues that have been brought up -- Prince George's County needs some economic development. It needs a shot in the arm. But at the same time, you are bringing in slots, and there's a stigma to gambling that still exists. Even though the fact Maryland has approved them, even though the fact neighboring West Virginia has them, neighboring Pennsylvania has them, there's still a stigma attached to it.

BUSHAnd a lot of the push-back against this, against slots, have come from people not just basing it on zoning and traffic issues, but there's been a lot of moral and religious issues against gambling as well. And that would be my question to the councilman, is, how much of this -- are you against this because of zoning matters and traffic issues, and how much are you against this because it's gambling on moral grounds, ethical grounds or whatever grounds you have?

NNAMDICouncilmember Olson?

OLSONYeah. Good question. I think there's so many reasons to oppose it. It's hard to put my finger on the top one, but I would say that, you know, look, we're trying to -- we are trying to grow our economy. We are trying to get the offices and whatnot, you know, the jobs around our Metro stations. I feel like we also have the state's largest foreclosure rate in the state. And when you have people in vulnerable economic positions, I don't think that putting a slots parlor is going to help that situation at all.

OLSONYou know, there are studies that say that we could -- the Prince George's Business Roundtable did a study in 2004 that said that, you know, slots could actually cost the county from, you know, $132 million to $376 million. You know, there's social services that you need to provide for. There's, you know, housing issues. Those are things that we -- we don't need that. We need to expand the economic pie. We need to grow our businesses here, and we need to attract the office tenants at our Metro stations.

NNAMDIWell, I can tell you where some of the political support comes from. It comes from your constituents who are running off to Delaware and Atlantic City and West Virginia in order to play slots. As we said, state Senate President Mike Miller said slots are going to play a key role if the county is going to move forward on a plan to build a new hospital. Where does the county get the money for such a plan without slots? How would you respond?

OLSONWell, the same as I've been responding, which is that, you know, we have, you know, places like New Carrollton, like Largo, where we are, you know, developing at our Metro stations. This is the kind -- this is where the $50 million economic development...

NNAMDIOkay. Let me take another tack.

OLSONYeah.

NNAMDIThe operators of Rosecroft Raceway also say that, without slots, Rosecroft is basically toast. What do you feel the county stands to lose if Rosecroft went under? Is that a part of your list of concerns?

OLSONSo, you know, my bill deals with slots across the county. It wasn't -- you know, when I put it in, it didn't -- it's not Rosecroft-specific. Obviously, they would fall into it. So Penn National apparently bought it for, what, $10 million, is what I'm reading in the reports? They knew full well going in that -- and they said that they weren't going to do this. That's my understanding, that they were going to do the racing.

OLSONSo they knew full well what the rules were when they came in and bought the track. There is a study that just came out -- Dr. DuBois, Frank DuBois from the School of Business at American University who looked at alternatives for Rosecroft. And it's a full study which talks about, you know, other possible entertainment and other things that would bring in, you know, multiple, multiple millions of dollars.

OLSONSo there are other alternatives. But, of course, you know, I understand Penn National wants slots, and that's what they've always wanted there, is my understanding.

NNAMDIMatt Bush, what sense do you have for what this political moment, if you will, means for Rushern Baker and the political capital he has to spend in Prince George's?

BUSHWell, he gets this victory, say it passes through -- he's gotten a lot of victories since he's taken over county executive. He's gotten the ethics bill passed to both county and state that will help Prince George's County. He had his candidate win the election for Leslie Johnson's council seat. So he's gotten some victories, but he's made a big deal about wanting some economic development.

BUSHThis would be one of the ways to do that, be it -- but it would be economic development. It would be a place where people would come to Prince George's County to spend money. And he might be holding his nose as this passes and be happy, but it would still be a victory.

NNAMDIEric Olson, to what degree do you think politicians in the county have the luxury of picking and choosing the kind of development they want to come right now? Even the project to bring Whole Foods to the county is encountering political resistance at the county and the local level. What makes you so sure that the development projects that you are supporting will get countywide or even community-wide support?

OLSONWell, transit-oriented development, I mean, like New Carrollton, that is a state priority. That's a county priority. The Council, the executive have, you know, created priority projects. So, you know, New Carrollton and Largo, Branch Avenue, those are, you know, huge priorities. I don't think -- you wouldn't find any elected official in the county who would, I think, dispute that.

NNAMDINot elected officials. What the Whole Foods is getting opposition from is not as much elected officials as from local community residents who feel that even though it's being constructed "near a Metro stop," it will cost a lot of -- more traffic congestion anyway.

OLSONYeah. Kojo, that's actually a project in my district, and I can't actually comment on that because it's -- there's ex parte, ethics rules about that. But...

NNAMDIYeah, I heard about that.

OLSON...there are local, you know, concerns, and we'll have to deal with that. But in terms of the larger economic development project, I mean, look, we have M Square Research Park. We've got BARC, Beltsville Agricultural Center, University of Maryland, Joint Base Andrews. We've got a lot of things -- National Harbor -- a lot of things that we can generate off of. And, you know, when we have these large companies looking to locate near Washington, D.C., we -- we're at the Beltway.

OLSONWe're at, you know, Route 50. We're at -- we have MARC lines and Amtrak lines and the Metro system. We don't see other -- the other jurisdictions that surround Washington, D.C., looking to slots, these are the jurisdictions. You know, we've got Arlington, Alexandria, D.C., Montgomery. These are the jurisdictions that have captured the office market, and we need to capture that as well. You're not going to see...

NNAMDIOkay.

OLSON...any of those jurisdictions looking for slots to save the day.

NNAMDIEric Olson is a member and the vice chairman of the Prince George's County Council. He's a Democrat who represents the county's third district. He introduced the bill that the county will be voting tomorrow that would essentially ban slots. Eric Olson, thank you for joining us.

OLSONThank you very much, Kojo.

NNAMDIAnd Matt Bush, who Eric Olson keeps employed, Matt Bush is a reporter for WAMU 88.5 who covers Prince George's County. Matt, thank you for joining us.

BUSHThank you.

NNAMDIThank you all for listening. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.