Saying Goodbye To The Kojo Nnamdi Show
On this last episode, we look back on 23 years of joyous, difficult and always informative conversation.
Talk to Kojo about the kidnapping of a Washington National’s player in Venezuela, the fallout from Penn State’s child sex scandal, or the latest news from your neighborhood. It’s your turn to share the stories on your mind with your community.
MR. KOJO NNAMDIIt's Your Turn, 800-433-8850. Or send email to kojo@wamu.org, a tweet, @kojoshow. One simple question: Should Joe Paterno have been fired as coach of the Penn State football team by the board of trustees? Or should he have been allowed to retire gracefully on his own schedule? The facts: Paterno's former assistant and friend Jerry Sandusky stands accused of sexually molesting at least eight boys. When one such incident was reported to Paterno by a graduate assistant, he reported it to the athletic director. Apparently, he did no more.
MR. KOJO NNAMDIIn addition to Paterno, the president of Penn State has also been fired, Graham Spanier. The university's Director of Athletics Timothy Mark Curley and Senior Vice President for Finance and Business Gary Schultz have each been charged with single counts of perjury and failure to report. Earlier this week, the board accepted Curley's request to take an administrative leave and Schultz's request to step down and return to retirement. What do you think?
MR. KOJO NNAMDIMost of the arguments against Joe Paterno being fired center on his legendary status and the perception that he ran an exemplary football program that emphasized academic achievement and produced hundreds of role models. The arguments in favor of his termination are that he apparently was too concerned about his football program to pay attention to the plight of a young boy or to what his friend and former assistant might be doing. What is your opinion? 800-433-8850.
MR. KOJO NNAMDIWe got this email from Karen in Columbia. "If anyone has any doubt about the fairness of firing of Joe Paterno or others, they should read the grand jury report. I read it on The New York Times website, but it's probably available elsewhere. Horrific and heartbreaking. News outlets cannot adequately portray the acts that went on for over a decade. Everyone knows about child abuse. Everyone who knows about child abuse has a legal and moral responsibility to report it. At Penn State, almost no one did."
MR. KOJO NNAMDIThis was posted on our website by Kot. (sp?) "I am distressed at the firing of Joe Paterno. I feel sorry for the children, of course, but Paterno reported the incident to his superiors as he was supposed to. Those superiors -- the athletic director and vice president -- were the ones who supposed -- were supposed to take further action. Obviously, they decided not to do so. I believe the Board of Trustees was looking for a high profile candidate for sacrifice to get the press off their backs.
MR. KOJO NNAMDI"Why weren't they professing horror last week before all this broke? And, by the way, where are the athletic director Joe Paterno reported the incident to and the athletic director's supervisor, the vice president, presumably, of Penn State? Why aren't they fired, instead of being investigated since they were the ones who should have reported it to the police?"
MR. KOJO NNAMDIWe move on now to the telephones. Here is Emmanuel in Upper Marlboro, Md. Emmanuel, you're on the air. Go ahead, please. Emmanuel, go right ahead.
EMMANUELYes. Can you hear me okay?
NNAMDIWe can.
EMMANUELOkay, great. Hey, yeah. I just want to weigh in. And my two cents is that I think that Joe Paterno's perspective is probably a little off, given that he's been as successful as he's been at Penn State. And his perception of reality, just based on a statement that he had released yesterday, that the board of trustees had not need to worry about his position, they have their hands full, to -- something to that degree, as if he was in charge.
EMMANUELAnd I think there's probably more people involved than we are aware of 'cause it sounds like, after the gentleman did tell the higher ups, it -- you know, it didn't come to the surface. So I think more people are involved, and, probably, more people need to be probably dismissed from that program.
NNAMDIEmmanuel, are you a college football fan, and, more particularly, are you a Penn State fan?
EMMANUELNeither. For other reasons, I'm not a football fan of the college. They need to have one Super Bowl-type playoff system, and so that's what keeps me away.
NNAMDIWhat would you say to fans of Penn State who say, Emmanuel, you just don't understand how important Joe Paterno is to the state and to the school?
EMMANUELWell, I would say that they are probably the last people to be objective because they're so close to the circumstance. And I've realized that it would probably almost be like a parent committing a crime, that the child loves the parent, and we understand that. But when that type of thing happens to a child, it's just -- you have to have an objective view.
NNAMDIThank you very much for your call, Emmanuel. We move on to Audrey in Silver Spring, Md. Audrey, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.
AUDREYHi, Kojo, love your show. Thanks for having me on. My comment was just that I was very disappointed in Paterno, you know? He went to his supervisor, but he didn't go any further. And I was just really disappointed in his comment about the victims because I felt that, if he really cared, he would have brought it to the attention of the police.
NNAMDIWell, think about it in this way. When you say you were disappointed because he didn't go any further, was going to the police, in your view, the only option he had for going further? Because there are those who will say, look, I can understand if somebody who has a very close friend of over 30 years, who hears from a third party that he has done something awful like this, and he reports it to his superior, who, I guess, he felt would take further action, and he took no further action himself, what was, in your view, reporting it to the police the only further action he could have taken?
AUDREYI do think that's the further action he could have taken. And if Paterno saw that -- or saw that the president then hadn't reported it, he himself should have reported it to the police. And, you know, maybe -- I don't know who it was -- the assistant coach could have been, you know, arrested sooner. And maybe there are other victims out there...
NNAMDIWell, let me be more explicit. Here's what I mean. If you've known somebody for 33 years and they have been accused of something like this, would you not approach the person yourself? Would you not tell other people involved in the circle in which you know that person about it? Would you essentially put it out of your mind after you reported it to the athletic director?
AUDREYNo, I wouldn't.
NNAMDIThat's what I'm saying besides other options, beside the police.
AUDREYOkay. I understand.
NNAMDIOkay.
AUDREYYeah. I mean -- okay.
NNAMDIThank you very much, Audrey, for allowing me to put words in your ear, if not in your mouth. Here is Yassim (sp?) in Maryland. Yassim, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.
YASSIMAll right. I have -- actually, I have several questions and comments regarding the situation. My first one is that, you know, I'm not sure that Joe Paterno is a mandated reporter as some people are in certain professions when they deal with children. Him being a college coach, you're not dealing with actual, you know, children. You're dealing with young men and, I mean, sometimes, you know, adolescents, but these are primarily young men. And I don't -- I'm not sure what the ages are of those children who -- or those boys or, you know, whatever the case is that were allegedly molested. But...
NNAMDIThey're all in the 8- to 12-year age range.
YASSIMOkay. Well -- and then, in that case, I do believe that he still followed the protocol as to what should have been done. Like you said, if this is a close friend of his, he would not -- you know, it wouldn't be automatic to believe a third party. And I think he will follow the protocol and tell his superior and let them decide on a school level what they're going to do next. So, you know, that -- I don't think that it was fair for them to sort of sacrifice him and say that he should have done more.
NNAMDIYassim. Yassim, forget...
YASSIMYes.
NNAMDI...protocol for a second. If somebody came to you and told you that one of your best friends had committed an act like this, and you followed the protocol of reporting it to your superior, would you go to bed that night and just forget about it?
YASSIMWell, I would -- I mean, I would not necessarily forget about it, but I would definitely approach this person myself. And we don't know whether or not he did that or not. But I know I would personally go to my friend and ask the question and say, this is what I've heard. Is it true or not?
NNAMDII'm just trying to investigate what you would consider a normal human response in a situation like that, not whether or not a specific protocol was followed because we're talking here about people who have been friends for 33 years and who have, I assume, had a circle of friends for over two or three decades at the same time.
YASSIMRight, right. And that's why I think that he probably decided not to go to the police and let the university deal with the issues that were, you know, brought before him because we have to remember that this was only alleged. He didn't witness it himself. So unless he witnessed it himself, that would be a different story. But being that somebody told him, he can only, you know, say what he heard, and that's what he did.
NNAMDIAnd in the nine years that have passed since then, you would have not wondered what the university did about it?
YASSIMWell, I mean, then, when you asked that question there, that sort of leads you to know, to wonder more. But at the -- I don't know that -- you know, we actually don't know has he questioned it again.
NNAMDIOkay.
YASSIMThis is all, you know, just -- this is not just speculation.
NNAMDIOkay, Yassim. Thank you very much for your call. We move to Dee (sp?) in Washington, D.C. Dee, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.
DEEHello. I'm going to weigh in on my feelings that I think Joe Paterno was released prematurely.
NNAMDIYes.
DEEAnd one thing that I'm thinking that a lot of people aren't analyzing this by is the time and era of which Joe Paterno grew up in and how people used to look at things. Okay, something is happening in a household down the street. Well, that's none of your business. What happens in their home is in their home. So they kind of grew up with that kind of mind frame. And we're talking about a man who's 80-some-years old, and he did what he was supposed to do.
DEEAnd as the last caller stated, that he didn't witness the act, but he did report the act. And I would be in a same kind of way. It's like, all right, I'm obligated to take and bring this to light to the athletic director, which he did. But the moral side is, yes, it's been nine years. Me, personally, I would have been, one, in my friend's face, and, two, I would have followed up with the athletic director. It's like, hey, did you do this?
NNAMDIOne distinction, Dee. It didn't happen in a house down the street. It happened, so to speak, in Joe's house.
DEERight. I'm just trying to take and get a basis for it on how, you know, an older generation might analyze something that was brought to their attention...
NNAMDIWell, that older...
DEE...as to today's society...
NNAMDIThat older generation that you're talking about, that individual has been very successful in today's society. So I think he knows a lot more about today's society than you might be giving him credit for at this point. But I do have to move on. Here now is Mike in Pittsburg, Pa. Mike, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.
MIKEHi. Thanks -- thank you, Kojo Nnamdi. I read the grand jury report, and it's loaded with allegations of heinous felonies by a subordinate of Joe Paterno and a friend of Joe Paterno's. So there's an incredible lack of judgment on Paterno's part to not follow up with authorities, to not follow up with his friend and to not follow up with the victims' families, so I think the board of trustees are completely justified in terminating his employment. Lots of people get terminated from high-profile jobs for less lack of judgment than what's on display here.
NNAMDIOkay. Thank you very much for your call. Here is Eli in Reston, Va. Eli, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.
ELIHi. I'm just wondering. So the grad assistant, I believe it's McQueary...
NNAMDIYes.
ELI...he still has his job. And I just read an article saying that he's going to be coaching this weekend, and they're still deciding whether he'll be in the booth or on the field. But he's the one that actually witnessed this go down. You know, Paterno, when it's reported, it's sort of a he-said, she-said sort of argument where he doesn't 100 percent know what happened. But McQueary witnessed this happening in the locker room.
ELIAnd I don't know about you, but my first response would be to reach into my pocket for my cellphone and dial 911 if I'm actively witnessing molestation happening in front of me. So you call the cops, and then you tell your boss. I don't understand why McQueary still has a job, but Paterno doesn't.
NNAMDIEli, we'll have to leave it there because we are out of time. On Monday, with Howard Ross, we'll be discussing workplace power and personal responsibility. And I suspect in the case of that graduate assistant at the time, it had a lot to do with workplace power and his view of who was in authority at the time. But as I said, that's all the time we have. Thank you all for your calls. And thank you all for listening. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.
On this last episode, we look back on 23 years of joyous, difficult and always informative conversation.
Kojo talks with author Briana Thomas about her book “Black Broadway In Washington D.C.,” and the District’s rich Black history.
Poet, essayist and editor Kevin Young is the second director of the Smithsonian's National Museum of African American History and Culture. He joins Kojo to talk about his vision for the museum and how it can help us make sense of this moment in history.
Ms. Woodruff joins us to talk about her successful career in broadcasting, how the field of journalism has changed over the decades and why she chose to make D.C. home.