MR. KOJO NNAMDIFrom WAMU 88.5, at American University in Washington, welcome to "The Kojo Nnamdi Show," connecting your neighborhood with the world. Later on the broadcast, Libya on the brink as Washington wonders, what's next? But first, Baltimore's mayoral candidates head down the home stretch. The charm city is scheduled to have a primary election on Sept. 13.

MR. KOJO NNAMDIAnd in a Democratic town like Baltimore, a Democratic Party town like Baltimore, the primary is almost all but certain to determine the city's next mayor. But all of the candidates are running in the shadow of the scandal that forced a popular mayor to resign early last year, a scandal that paved the way for the current mayor, Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, to ascend to the top spot.

MR. KOJO NNAMDIJoining us to explore what's at stake in Rawlings-Blake's campaign to defend her seat and the candidates who are challenging her is Marc Steiner, host of "The Marc Steiner Show" on WEAA in Baltimore, Md. Marc, good to talk to you again.

MR. MARC STEINERYou, too, Kojo. How are you doing?

NNAMDII'm doing well. Baltimore's politics were blown up two years ago, Marc, when former mayor Sheila Dixon was found guilty of abusing gift cards that were intended for the city's low-income communities.

NNAMDIRawlings-Blake moved up from city council chairman to mayor early in 2010 after Dixon was forced to resign. And now, Rawlings-Blake is the incumbent, facing a slate of challengers in next month's primary. What has defined this race so far? And what's likely to define it for the next several weeks?

STEINERThere are a bunch of things, I think, defining it. One is this continual accusation by the other candidates that Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake is in the pocket of Gov. Martin O'Malley, that she's really his puppet. And that's been a big piece of the debates and what the other candidates are then saying, and that she has no independence, that people are arguing that the African-American president -- the city hall is too small under Rawlings-Blake, even though she's African-American.

STEINERAnd the problem, I think, here -- the biggest issue here, I think, though, is whether anybody is listening, if anybody think it's interesting.

NNAMDIBecause of...

STEINERI just...

NNAMDIBecause of what?

STEINERWell, because, historically, in these off-year elections in Baltimore, people don't turn out to vote. It's like a 22, 23 percent voter turnout. So, despite some of the seriousness of the issues and what Baltimore faces and the kind of things that are being debated, it comes to a question of politics. Who has the most money? And who has the better organized campaign?

STEINERAnd that's what it's going to come down to on the 13th, I'm afraid, is who has the better organized campaign and can get out the vote and get the troops out on that day. And that has to lean towards Stephanie Rawlings-Blake. (unintelligible) to be there.

NNAMDIWell, and there doesn't seem to be a great deal of interest in the campaign. That's where, well, you and I come in. We forge ahead nevertheless. What does the...

STEINERThat's true.

NNAMDIWhat does the rest of the field look like outside of Stephanie Rawlings-Blake? And, apart from associating her with Gov. O'Malley, what other lines of attack are they using?

STEINERWell, there's a number. One candidate is Otis Rolley. Otis Rolley is the youngest candidate in the race. He is the former head of planning under Mayor Martin O'Malley. He was chief of staff with Sheila Dixon, but resigned before Sheila Dixon was indicted, just as she was being indicted. He's young. He's from the inner city. He's an MIT graduate.

STEINERAnd he is taking -- a lot of the young, white entrepreneurs and high-tech young people who have moved into the city are behind his campaign, and he's running very hard. He's raised third -- most amount of money. He's pushing to get rid of the police chief, get rid of the head of education, to have mayoral control of education, to change the Baltimore Development Corporation and how it does business in Baltimore, which is not transparent at all.

STEINERAnd he and Catherine Pugh, who's a state senator, who's the leading contender, I think, at the moment, against Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, are really pushing around the idea of lack of transparency with the Baltimore Development Corporation and all the rebates and the tax write-offs that get -- go to the larger companies in Baltimore, where they're developing the Inner Harbor. So that's a huge piece of the issue as well.

NNAMDIWe're talking with Marc Steiner -- he is host of "The Marc Steiner Show" on WEAA in Baltimore, Md. -- about the mayoral primary coming up in Baltimore. If you'd like to join the conversation, call us at 800-433-8850. What do you think is at stake for Baltimore in this year's mayoral election? 800-433-8850. You can go to our website, kojoshow.org, send us a tweet, @kojoshow, email to kojo@wamu.org.

NNAMDIRawlings-Blake took over for mayor -- for a mayor that was overwhelmingly popular in Baltimore, despite the scandal that ultimately forced Sheila Dixon out. What kind of record has Rawlings-Blake managed to create for herself in the 18 months she's been holding down the top job, Marc?

STEINERWell, I -- she's been a caretaker. She's done nothing that has been overwhelmingly glaring in the negative or a positive sense. She has -- she brought the Grand Prix to Baltimore, which is going to happen on Labor Day. Now, that could -- another thing that...

NNAMDIWell, it's my understanding that a lot of candidates are making a campaign issue out of the upcoming Grand Prix. It's a three-day massive racing festival featuring an Indy car race on Labor Day weekend, just a little more than a week before the (word?). What are the complaints? What are the grievances about the race and Rawlings-Blake's involvement in promoting it?

STEINERWell, they're saying that that's not the way to develop the city. Some people are arguing -- some of the candidates, like Jody Landers and Catherine Pugh and Otis Rolley, are arguing that that's the wrong place to put our development dollars, that they should go into the communities and not into a downtown Grand Prix, that Baltimore is not a Grand Prix kind of city.

STEINERHer argument is that we have to think beyond what Baltimore used to be, and the Grand Prix will bring all -- 100,000 people to this city to watch this race, that it will put us on the map from hereon as a Grand Prix-centered city. And the arguments also ensued around chopping down trees, old-growth trees, old-growth by 50-, 60-, 70-year-old trees.

STEINERPeople were arguing that we put too much money into paving those downtown streets to prepare for the Grand Prix and didn't pave the neighborhoods, and so...

NNAMDIWhat does Stephanie Blake-Rawlings argue in return, that presumably the grand prix is either going to bring, A, a lot of income into the city or, B, it will in the future?

STEINERBoth. She says it can bring income now and in the future. And she's using this as a way to put Baltimore on the map, and she bought into it completely. She thinks it's the -- it's an incredibly powerful idea.

NNAMDIYou know, we tried it in D.C. We tried it here in D.C. for one year and didn't make it after one year because there were so many complaints from people in the neighborhood about the noise.

STEINERYes. Well, that's -- I mean, D.C. was raised in the debates that they -- that the city mayor usually does not show up for. So...

NNAMDIIs it possible, Marc, that she's not showing up for some of these debates because -- it's my understanding -- she's got more money than all of the other candidates combined?

STEINERWhat -- there are two things. I think, A, I mean, she uses the reasoning that she is a sitting mayor, so she has mayoral things to do and can't go to every debate. But, B, I think it is because she has the money, and she has a strategy. And her strategy is to lay low, to bring out the voters in the black and white communities that she knows that are on her side. And she can win with, if nothing else, a plurality.

STEINERAnd I think she may be correct in making that assumption. I mean, one of the leading ministers in town, the Interdenominational Ministerial Alliance (word?), which is the (unintelligible) town, thinks that Jody Landers will come running up the middle as the white candidate to take the race. I don't think that's going to happen. Jody is not a very credible smart candidate, along with Otis and Catherine Pugh.

STEINERBut, I think, either -- the votes is going to come out in a very interesting way. There was a poll that I saw that -- we couldn't say where it came from, and some papers said the same thing. We both saw the same poll that showed that Stephanie Rawlings-Blake had 48 percent of the vote. This was three months ago. She had a bigger vote lead among the white Baltimorians than in the African-American community, where Catherine Pugh was the frontrunner.

STEINERBut I think it's going to be very hard to beat her unless you have an extremely well-organized campaign and pull out people who don't vote. That's going to be -- that's the problem. And the people who don't vote are some of the angriest people in Baltimore because they're left out, but they're not voting.

NNAMDIWe're talking with Marc Steiner, host of the "The Marc Steiner Show" on WEAA in Baltimore, Md., about the upcoming mayoral election and whether or not there's a great deal of interest in it. If you have interest in it and have a question or comment, call us at 800-433-8850. What do you think is at stake for Baltimore in this year's mayoral election? 800-433-8850.

NNAMDIHere's another issue that might be leading to low turnout, Marc Steiner. It's a primary here. Baltimore is a Democratic Party town. A lot of people say cities like Baltimore and Washington, D.C., for that matter, should have open primaries in their municipal elections because independents and Republicans don't have a chance. Whoever wins the Democratic primary wins.

STEINERThat has been the part of the debate here this year. I mean, I think all the other -- all the challengers, almost to a candidate, have mentioned -- have brought that up in the debates, that we should have a different way of electing the mayor. That's a very popular sentiment in the city. I think that the only way that changes if it's put to referendum.

STEINERAnd I wouldn't be surprised to see that happening in the next few years before the next mayoral election, that that's put on referendum. I can see that happening, I think, 'cause it is true. I mean, if you're a minority candidate, in terms of political minority, if you're a Republican, an independent, a green or whatever, you have no chance of winning in the city.

STEINEROnce the Democratic primary is done, that pretty much decides who's going to be the next mayor or president city council or the next city councilmember. And, I mean, there will be a couple of races coming up in the fall. There's one strong green candidate for the Third Councilmanic District, who got 35 percent of the vote, which was amazing last time he ran.

STEINERAnd he's running again with a stronger campaign. That will be an interesting one to watch. I doubt he'll win, but (unintelligible) watch how he picks up steam in the general election.

NNAMDIAs you have been...

STEINERSo that year -- you're right.

NNAMDIAs you have been observing Stephanie Rawlings-Blake, Marc, you know, here in Washington, we've got a mayor who also moved into the job from the chair of the council. They turned out to be two very different jobs, and our mayor has been having a great deal of difficulty in his first months in office making that adjustment. What do you think Rawlings-Blake has learned so far about the differences between chairing the council and actually running the city?

STEINERWell, I think, first of all, Stephanie Rawlings-Blake comes from an old political family in Baltimore.

NNAMDIExactly.

STEINERHer father was one of the leaders of the House of Delegates...

NNAMDIYep.

STEINER...and who everybody loved and feared.

NNAMDIThe late Pete Rawlings.

STEINERYes. Exactly. And Stephanie is a great deal like him, doesn't show a lot of emotion. She holds things very close to her vest. But she's learning how to wield power. I mean, she wields power. It's clear. I think if she's elected mayor, she will become one of the strongest mayors the city has had, just in terms of her iron rule, which, I think, is in there with her. So she knows how to do that.

STEINERAnd she's brought her team in, this coterie of people that she has trusted, and the people from the O'Malley administration, like the governor's brother who has been brought in as her chief of staff. So, yes -- so she's in a political machine, so to speak, with the governor. I think that's clear. They're very closely allied. She credits...

NNAMDIWell, Sheila Dixon may be out of office, but she doesn't seem to be out of the picture. It's my understanding she's been quietly advising candidates in this race.

STEINERThat's true.

NNAMDIWhat do you make of how Dixon has involved herself in this contest?

STEINERSheila Dixon wants to be mayor -- really wants to be a mayor. I mean, she -- that's all she's ever wanted to be. So when she was pushed out of office, it was horrible for her. But what's funny is that she has been talking about Catherine Pugh, State Sen. Catherine Pugh, and has given money to her campaign and to Otis Rolley's campaign. But Otis gave the money back, but still took her advice. So...

NNAMDIWhy do you think he gave the money back, because he doesn't be want to be that closely associated with her?

STEINERYes. Yes. Yes.

NNAMDIWell, what's...

STEINERHe was her chief of...

NNAMDIGo ahead.

STEINERNo. I was going to say he was her chief of staff for a good while. But, no, he doesn't want to be a -- it's really -- it's a every mixed thing. I mean, there -- a lot of people in -- at the street level who loved her 'cause she was on the way to becoming a great mayor if she hadn't blown it with the fur coats and the tickets.

NNAMDIYes. That's what she eventually went down for. What sense do you have now for how residents feel about Dixon now, a year-and-a-half after her resignation? She was a popular mayor right up until the end, wasn't she?

STEINEROh, she was very popular. People did like her, I mean, 'cause she was -- you know, she was like William Donald Schaefer. She was smart enough to know that she had to bring in smart people to help run the city. And she was just very -- you know, she could talk to people. She knew how to work a room, and she was a working class girl from the streets for the inner-city community. And she just -- people loved her.

NNAMDIBut you said this is the job she has always wanted. And now it looks as if, given her advantage in fund raising, Stephanie Rawlings-Blake is going to, it would appear, likely win this race again. So what do you expect from Dixon in the future? Are what do you see her back again in four years, looking to get her job back?

STEINERShe desperately wants that. Whether she's able to do it is another question. I think that once -- if Stephanie Rawlings-Blake wins, like every other mayor who's won in this town, you're not -- you can't get her out of office. She'll be there for a long time to come, for as long as she wants it. If Dixon had not been indicted, she would have been mayor for as long as she wanted. I mean, you know, we have mayors here for 12 years.

STEINERYou know, look at Kurt Schmoke and Schaefer and the original Mayor D'Alesandro in the '50s and Theo McKeldin, the one Republican. When you're elected mayor in this town, it's a -- it can be lifetime job.

NNAMDIAnd that's the institutional memory of Marc Steiner talking there about mayors in Baltimore. So it definitely looks, at this point, as if Stephanie Rawlings-Blake has the advantage not only for this term but maybe for terms in the future.

STEINERAbsolutely. No, she's -- and I think that -- you know, that Gov. Martin O'Malley has huge plans for himself. He sees himself as a vice-presidential candidate. Stephanie Rawlings-Blake is very close to the governor. I mean, this is a very powerful political entity that they're creating in the state. And I -- that's why he's marshalling his forces to support her campaign.

STEINERAnd it's interesting to watch Catherine Pugh as a state senator, that Mike Miller, the state senate president, is backing Catherine Pugh.

NNAMDIAh, that's fascinating.

STEINERAnd...

NNAMDISo he's backing his colleague in the senate, but it seems to me as if the alliance between the -- Gov. O'Malley and Stephanie Rawlings-Blake is one that she has been able to use to her advantage so far. Her opponents keep saying that, well, she's following the governor. She's in his pocket, and she says, well, if it takes having a close relationship with the governor to get what the city needs, then that's what I'm going to do.

STEINEROh, absolutely. And so she -- that's what she says all the time, and she says that out in the open. I think that the three largest -- the three biggest issues on people's minds, and that the other candidates are pushing very hard, one has to do with the conduct of the police. Even though crime has gone down, people are upset with the police in Baltimore City.

STEINERThe other is the -- is going after the head of the school system, who's a controversial figure, but also very popular figure. Now, I think sometimes that they don't really realize how popular he is in the eyes of many parents in the city.

NNAMDIYeah.

STEINERAnd the other is the lack of transparency and where money is invested in Baltimore in terms of development. People are feeling their neighborhood is just neglected. But I think people also feel that they don't have a real say in government, and they don't come out to vote.

NNAMDIVery interesting because of when this election is occurring. We'll keep an eye on it and probably talk with you after it's over again. Marc Steiner, thank you so much for joining us.

STEINERIt's my pleasure. Good to talk to you, Kojo.

NNAMDIMarc is host of "The Marc Steiner Show" on WEAA in Baltimore, Md. We're going to take a short break. When we come back, the fall of Tripoli: what comes next? 800-433-8850. You can join that conversation. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.