MR. KOJO NNAMDIFrom WAMU 88.5 at American University in Washington, welcome to "The Kojo Nnamdi Show," connecting your neighborhood with the world. It's Tech Tuesday. They're called energy vampires, electronic devices that suck energy from the grid while their unsuspecting owners are asleep. Did you know that even after you turn off the power on your DVR it's still swallowing almost as much electricity as it does when it's turned on?

MR. KOJO NNAMDIA new report estimates that on a national level, the set-top boxes we get from the cable company consume 27 billion kilowatt hours of electricity per year, equal to the annual household electricity consumption of the entire state of Maryland. Home electronics, from your TV to your gaming console to your computer, account for 10 to 15 percent of the average household electric bill. So what's a Blu-ray-loving Xbox addicted, yet energy-conscious consumer to do?

MR. KOJO NNAMDIJoining us in studio to discuss that is Doug Johnson, the vice president of technology policy with the Consumer Electronics Association. Doug Johnson, thank you for joining us.

MR. DOUG JOHNSONHi, Kojo. Thank you.

NNAMDIAnd joining us from studios in Berkeley, Calif., is Noah Horowitz, senior scientist and director with the Center for Energy Efficiency Standards with the Natural Resources Defense Council. Noah Horowitz, thank you for joining us.

MR. NOAH HOROWITZNice to be here. Thanks.

NNAMDIYou too can join this Tech Tuesday conversation at 800-433-8850 or go to our website, kojoshow.org, join the conversation there. How much do you really know about what your devices are up to at night? Did you know they're using power even when they're turned off? 800-433-8850. Noah, I'll start with you. Energy vampires are electronic devices that get their name from their plugs with prongs or fangs that continue to draw power even when we think they're dormant. How do set-top cable or satellite boxes work, and why do they use so much energy even when they're not, well, being used?

HOROWITZThanks, Kojo. Set-top boxes are probably the biggest vampire in our homes, and that's because you can't even turned them off, or if they have an on-off switch, all it does is dim the clock. So your DVR is unsuspectingly consuming around 30 watts of power all day and night long. When you run the numbers, that DVR might be consuming more energy per year than your new big-screen TV, and there's really nothing a consumer can do, which is frustrating to many.

HOROWITZAnd many homes have two boxes. You have a DVR on your main TV, and you'll have a regular set-top box on your second TV. When you add that up, that's equal to the annual energy consumed by a new fridge. So we're really hoping the cable and satellite industry can work to help this vampire go to sleep.

NNAMDII know the Natural Resources Defense Council tested the energy consumption of set-top boxes and specifically how many watts they use. One of the things that surprised me was that you found that for a typical DVR, that hitting the power button to turn it off as it dims the clock or display, that instead of consuming 30 watts, the box then used 29 watts.

HOROWITZYeah. Basically, these boxes are fully on all the time. That's the way the cable and satellite systems are set up today. We think this industry would benefit greatly by taking a look at our smartphones. They have the same security issues. They track how many minutes you use. You're a unique user, and you can always receive a signal. But when you're not making a phone call, it uses a trickle of power, same sort of system should be deployed by these set-top boxes.

NNAMDIDoug Johnson, the Environmental Protection Agency has approved ENERGY STAR standards for set-top boxes that will take effect in September. What are those standards, and how will they change the way set-top boxes operate?

JOHNSONRight. ENERGY STAR is actually in place for set-top boxes. It has been. They've had a specification since January of 2009. The upcoming specification, so-called version 3.0, takes effect in September, and that will have a - just like the version 2 spec, version 3 will have a meaningful impact on the set-top box market, both in the cable and satellite side, as well as IPTV, which we may talk about shortly as well.

JOHNSONSo what we're expecting ENERGY STAR to accomplish in set-top box energy efficiency is essentially a 30 percent reduction for set-top boxes with a built-in digital video recorder or DVR, and for boxes without a DVR, we're expecting to see a 20 percent reduction in the power consumption of those boxes. So the industry in general is on the right track with respect to energy efficiency. This category is particularly challenging, because it's not just the box itself, it's also the service with the box, the infrastructure behind the box.

JOHNSONAnd so it is a challenging category for ENERGY STAR, but we are on the right track and working cooperatively with the EPA in the development and expansion of this program.

NNAMDINoah Horowitz, how will the new ENERGY STAR standards for set-top boxes change the way those boxes are made and the way they're used?

HOROWITZLet's keep in mind ENERGY STAR is a voluntary spec. We think EPA does a great job with that program, and the success is dependent upon the Comcasts and the Time Warners of the world to sign up and deploy these better boxes. So even with the ENERGY STAR 3.0 spec, unfortunately, you still won't be able to dramatically reduce the power in the middle of the night. And again, we're spending $2 billion a year in electricity to power these devices when we're sleeping.

HOROWITZSo ENERGY STAR is a step in the right direction. So when the box is on, maybe instead of using 35 watts, it might use 30 or 28, and they'll be doing things like spinning down the hard drive in the middle of the night when you're not recording or playing back a show.

NNAMDIDoug, one of the challenges for manufacturers is designing a set-top box that can go into deep sleep and significantly cut its energy consumption, but also to be able to spring into action quickly when I, the television viewer, (laugh) is ready to use it. How are manufacturers addressing that challenge?

JOHNSONThat's right. It is a challenge, and it's really a balancing act to provide a box that delivers the services and the programming and the choices we want as consumers, while at the same doing so in the most energy-efficient way possible. It is a challenge, and ENERGY STAR, as I've mentioned, is on the right track with this latest specification, but we do expect in terms of set-top boxes and TV watching to have a rich experience, high-definition pictures, lots of channels, lots of choices and ability certainly to watch the kind of programming that you want when you want to watch it, so all that requires technology, electronics and some amount of power to deliver consumers with those features and services.

NNAMDIWe're talking energy vampires on this Tech Tuesday, electronics that drain power and in some cases, 24/7, inviting your calls at 800-433-8850. We're speaking with Doug Johnson -- he's vice president of technology policy with the Consumer Electronics Association -- and Noah Horowitz, senior scientist and director with the Center for Energy Efficiency Standards with the Natural Resources Defense Council.

NNAMDIWhat steps do you take to power down your home electronics when they're not in use? Call us at 800-433-8850. Send us a tweet, @kojoshow, or email to kojo@wamu.org. Noah Horowitz, your research found that some set-top boxes perform better than others at being both energy efficient and being responsive. How do Apple TVs, video streaming box and some boxes manage to use less power?

HOROWITZSo these streaming boxes, like Apple TV or the Roku box, they're not connected to the cable system so they don't have to deal with some of the challenges that Doug mentioned. Those draw around five or 10 watts, and they do have a real on-off switch, and they go down to just a couple of tenths of a watt or less than one watt when they're off.

NNAMDIWhy do set-top boxes that include a DVR recorder -- why do they use 40 percent more power than boxes with no recording capability?

HOROWITZMany DVRs have two or three tuners in them, so you can watch one show and record one or two more shows separately. The problem, the way they're designed today, all three tuners are fully on, even though you're not watching three shows, which is very seldom, at least in our house. And in addition, they have a hard drive that's spinning to record shows. That's about seven watts as well. So together, the multiple tuners and the hard drive, that's what accounts for that additional power.

NNAMDIDoug, let's look at the consumer side of this equation. First, are most people even aware that their DVR is using energy when it's not recording anything? Is there any measurable consumer demand for energy-efficiency? I, for one, did not become aware of a lot of this until I started preparing for the show.

JOHNSONSure. You're not alone. Our research -- in fact, research done just a couple of months ago shows that most consumers are unaware of the tools and opportunities they have to save energy with electronics, and this can range from power management in computers, enabling power management to save energy when you're in a home office environment, to ensuring that the TV is switched off when you're finished watching a DVD or playing a game.

JOHNSONTo a greater and greater extent, we're finding the intelligence built into the product for auto power down, and I know Mr. Horowitz has been a strong advocate of auto power down. In fact, that's a requirement that does show up in the ENERGY STAR specifications. So it should be easier going forward for consumers to manage the energy use of their devices, but great things are happening, I think, beyond that with respect to home-energy management, product and services of our industry, allowing consumers through a control interface to manage the energy use, not just of their electronics but also their lighting, heating and cooling functions all in one place.

JOHNSONAnd we've heard also talk about smart grid to some extent, which is really transforming the whole electricity distribution infrastructure, so you'll have more information about your own energy use and how you can manage that going forward.

NNAMDIOnto the telephones. Here now is Drew in Reston, Va. Drew, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

DREWYeah. Hi. My question is around the caching of live television, which is one of the cooler features of DVRs. I can wake up in the morning and rewind 30 minutes, for example, on "The Today Show," even though I was asleep. How does the auto power down feature impacts features like that?

NNAMDINoah Horowitz?

HOROWITZSure. It will be able to do everything you want to. Auto-power down basically is if you haven't touched the remote control in a while, then the thing auto-powers down. There are different implementations. What they do in Europe that's interesting is at 11 at night, a signal comes up and say, hey, it looks like you're not watching TV, if not, I'm going to power down and it cuts the power in half, and then at 11 at night, it goes down to one watt.

HOROWITZAnd a good implementation would be, most people don't watch TV before six in the morning, at 10 minutes to six, it could power up, and you're ready to go. And if you're watching TV, as long as you've hit the remote control at least once in four hours, you're going to be able to do that caching that you spoke about when you're watching "The Today Show."

NNAMDIDrew, does that answer your question?

DREWYes, it does. Thank you.

NNAMDIThank you for your call, Drew. We move on to Rashan in Washington, D.C. Rashan, your turn.

RASHANYes. How are you doing, Kojo and pal?

NNAMDIWe're doing well.

RASHANGood. Well, I just had a comment about saving the power. When I lived in Baltimore, my bill was $220 for a two bedroom apartment, and I thought they were stealing my power. But I got a power surge detector and the power strips, and I plugged everything into the power strip. And every time I left the house, I would turn off the power strip, and I also would turn it off at nighttime, me and my daughter. I went from $220 to down to $60 the next month.

NNAMDIGood idea. Doug Johnson?

JOHNSONYeah, I think that's a great example of something that a consumer can do. It was actually mentioned at the top of the show that there's nothing a consumer can do, and I think that was with respect to set-top boxes. But, in general, there's lots that a consumer can do. As the caller mentioned, you can buy a power strip or smart power strip and plug a number of electronics into there. Just keep in mind, though, that some electronics, such as a DVR, a set-top box, if you do power them off completely, you'll lose some of the functionality and recording capability.

JOHNSONBut other electronics that aren't used very often at all or you just simply want to combine into a master switch, a power strip could be a solution there. Another thing a consumer can do is look for ENERGY STAR-labeled products, which in our industry, covers just about every major category. Consumers --in fact, our research shows that consumers do have a strong interest in energy efficiency, 60 percent of consumers according to our recent study, in fact, they rank energy efficiency, according to that same study a couple months ago, at number three behind features and price. So it is not top of mind, but up there pretty high. And consumers, when they're buying electronics product for the home office or home entertainment area, can look for that ENERGY STAR label.

NNAMDIRashan, thank you very much for your call. We're gonna take a short break. It's Tech Tuesday. We're talking energy vampires and taking your calls. Who do you think should bear the responsibility for making home electronics more energy efficient? The cable companies, the manufacturers, you, the consumer? 800-433-8850 or you can go to our website, kojoshow.org. Ask a question or make a comment there. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.

NNAMDIIt's Tech Tuesday. We're talking about energy vampires, electronics that drain power. Our guest Noah Horowitz, a senior scientist and director with the Center for Energy Efficiency Standards at the Natural Resources Defense Council. He joins us from studios in Berkeley, California. Here in our Washington studio is Doug Johnson, vice president of technology policy with the Consumer Electronics Association. If you've been trying to get through on the phone and the lines are busy, go to our website, kojoshow.org.

NNAMDIJoin the conversation there. Send us a tweet, @kojoshow or email to kojo@wamu.org. Noah, can you talk about flat-screen televisions. Why do consumers need to be aware of their TV's brightness setting?

HOROWITZSo everybody has TV envy, and we like to say 48 -- 42 is the new 25, as everybody's got a 42-inch TV in their homes these days, which is great. And the good news is the industry has really worked hard to improve the energy efficiency of their TVs. And today's TVs might use 50 percent less energy than one if you bought it a couple of years ago. So again, I agree with Doug here, when consumers are looking to buy a new TV, they should buy one that has the ENERGY STAR label.

HOROWITZThat way, it's one of the more efficient ones. And it's not enough just to buy an ENERGY STAR product, but to use it properly. So we like to say settings matter, so it depends -- the brightness of the TV directly impacts how much energy the TV uses. So people should pick the home or the standard setting, and the TV will be at the right level of brightness for your home. If you pick what's called the retail or vivid mode, the TV will probably be overly bright for your home and you could be consuming 20 percent more electricity. So again, pick the home or the standard mode and you'll be just fine.

NNAMDIWe got an email from Dick that -- addressed to both of you. Dick says, "Flash memory is a great solution to this problem. The memory fires up when you need it. Moreover, flash memory is a lot cheaper than a spinning hard drive because there are no spinning components. Why can't my TV company use flash memory?" Doug Johnson.

JOHNSONSure. Caller is right in that flash memory can be much more efficient in a couple of different ways. I think with respect to incorporating that into set-top boxes, it may be a while. I think the biggest evolution in DVRs has been with much better hard disk drives, really, that can be shut down. They don't have to be constantly spinning as older drives used to, have to spin a lot for their longevity.

JOHNSONNow you have a smarter technology in the disk drives that can power down when not needed. But who knows, in the future, we may see more set-top boxes. In fact, we may not even see DVRs in set-top boxes in the future, as a lot of -- the content and the on-demand content moves to the Internet.

NNAMDIOn to Brian in Springfield, Va. Brian, your turn.

BRIANYes, thanks very much for taking my call. I just had a quick question. I know that a couple years ago, there was a big campaign for unplugging cell phone wall chargers. And I've noticed that a lot of cell phone chargers are now moving the way of USB plugs, that just go into the computer. I was wondering if you could just comment on the efficiency of charging cell phones through a USB plug. And whether there's still a large power drain if you leave the USB plugs plugged into the computer when not in use.

NNAMDINoah Horowitz.

HOROWITZSure. So when people thought about vampire power, everybody focused on their cell phone charger, and that's just one of 30-plus devices in your home that's consuming power in the middle of the night. So it's your TV, your computer, your garage door opener and your cell phone are all drawing some low level of power in the middle of the night. Whether you use your cell phone charger itself or plug it into your laptop, that's still relatively low levels of power compared to the other things we're talking about here. So you're fine charging it with your laptop. You just want to make sure your laptop goes back to sleep after the cell phone is charged.

NNAMDIOn to Lance in Baltimore, Md. Lance, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

LANCEHello, Kojo. How are you?

NNAMDII'm well.

LANCEWonderful. A question for your guests, if they have an opinion on this. I had installed in my home, and unfortunately it was a new home, so I can't give you a comparison, but I had installed in my home, prior to the breaker box, a device that is designed supposedly to cut down on the usage of power when household devices in general are not on. Unfortunately, I can't think of the name of this product, but it was about $500. I had it installed prior to the box and just want to get their opinion if these devices are real or if they're, you know, not all they're cracked up to be.

NNAMDIAny familiarity with that product, Doug Johnson?

JOHNSONI'm not sure exactly what the caller is talking about, but what he does describe seems quite similar to the smart power strips that were mentioned earlier, which have technology in them that can sense the change in current and switch devices or plugged in devices off. So I'm not sure if that's exactly what the caller had in mind, but that technology does show up elsewhere.

NNAMDIAnd, Lance, because it's a new house, you have no point of comparison for it. So just in general, do you feel your electric bills are too high or affordable?

LANCEKojo, it's a very lofty home. So I went from a normal house to something with cathedral ceilings. So, yeah, I think my bills are high. But I have no point of reference, unfortunately, and I've often wondered, did I get taken on this? Was it a scam? And I wish I could think of the name. It's slipping my mind...

NNAMDII was about to suggest. Noah Horowitz, is there any way that Lance can look this up, so to speak?

HOROWITZI'm not familiar with the product, but it sounds like the concept of a master off switch. So when you leave the home, all these auxiliary products go to zero watts of power, and that could potentially be a great thing.

LANCEThat’s correct.

NNAMDIHe said, that's it, says Lance.

LANCEThat's correct, absolutely. I'll tell you what, Kojo, if I can think of the name, I'll call the show back and let somebody know.

NNAMDIThat's the service we offer, Lance. Thank you very much for your call. You, too, can call us at 800-433-8850. Doug Johnson, the California Energy Commission adopted rules that require retailers starting this year to sell only televisions that meet the federal ENERGY STAR guidelines, which are usually, as you pointed out earlier, voluntary -- or maybe I was the one who pointed it out. How has that measure affected television manufacturers?

JOHNSONWell, that's a big question and something worthy of a show itself, I think the history with the Energy Commission in California. But suffice it to say that those regulations were developed without a very good and current understanding of where the TV market actually was at the time. There were a number of problems with the data that the Energy Commission was looking at in the analysis.

JOHNSONAnd all, as Mr. Horowitz acknowledged, all during this time, of course, manufacturers and retailers were partnering with the USEPA and the ENERGY STAR program, which has had, I don't know, something like three revisions to its specifications the past three or four years. So that program, although voluntary, moves along at a rapid clip to keep pace with the industry. And really, I think we attribute the success in the marketplace for TVs to both ENERGY STAR and innovation.

NNAMDIWhat do you feel about that, Noah Horowitz? It's my understanding, you worked on that measure.

HOROWITZYes. NRDC was one of the lead advocates in support of the TV standards in California. And it's interesting, Mr. Johnson doesn't bring up the fact that his organization and the industry fought like crazy, this standard, and said if you do this, the shelves will be empty, and all the small retailers in California would close and we'd lose 5,000 jobs. The reality is, now it's 2011 and all these great TVs are on the shelf with more features than before, and they're meeting the standard two years ahead of schedule.

HOROWITZSo whether it was a combination of ENERGY STAR, the rebates that utilities offered for TVs that meet and beat ENERGY STAR, and the fact that it would be mandatory in California, all that together has resulted in the great place we are today with much more efficient TVs, with even better pictures and functions.

NNAMDIYou seem to be suggesting, Doug Johnson, that that could have been accomplished on a voluntary basis also.

JOHNSONIt really could've. I mean, with, Kojo, with the problems we see with government debt and everything else, I think the government should be the last place to look for solutions. Oftentimes the marketplace can find those solutions, even in partnership with government, through voluntary programs much better than could otherwise be achieved through regulation.

JOHNSONAnd one thing I would want to note about California is that the Energy Commission did exempt televisions greater than 50 inches from this regulation, which accounts for the fact that you have a wide choice available in California today. I think that was an important exemption at the time. But once again, these regulations in California weren't needed in the first place, and I think certainly going forward, we'll recognize in a broader way what's happening with ENERGY STAR,

JOHNSONThere's a new spec that will take effect and one that's being developed right now, Version 6. So you've had six -- almost six versions of ENERGY STAR to date. And through competition and to some extent, perhaps the rebate programs from the utilities, ENERGY STAR has driven forward.

NNAMDIDoug Johnson is vice president of technology policy with the Consumer Electronics Association. He joins us in our Washington studio. Joining us from studios in Berkeley, Calif., is Noah Horowitz, senior scientist and director of the Center for Energy Efficiency Standards with the Natural Resources Defense Council. Noah Horowitz, video game consoles have improved their energy efficiency in recent years, but they still consume a lot of power if they're on and even if they're not being used. What do we need to know about video game consoles that we may not already know?

HOROWITZSo the Xbox 360 or PlayStation 3, they're incredible devices, and they're basically a computer and a black box that sits under your TV. The industry, Sony and Microsoft in particular, have done a good job. Today's product uses half the power compared to two, three years ago. There's one huge problem that they haven't fixed, and we hope they will shortly. If your child or your roommate or partner forgets to turn off that device, it will continue to consume their full levels of power.

HOROWITZSo as a result, if you don't turn off you your Xbox 360 at night, you'll be spending an extra hundred dollars a year in electricity. These boxes do have -- unlike the set-top boxes we spoke about, they do have a real on-off switch. If you push it, it's consuming less than one watt, which is where it should be, and it quickly boots back up.

HOROWITZThey do have an auto power down capability, but the manufacturer has mysteriously shipped that feature disabled. You have to go into the menu and turn it on. And you could probably count on a few hands how many people knew to do that. So we need this products shipped with the auto power down feature shipped enabled, and we're optimistic that will be happening in the future.

NNAMDIOn to the telephones again. Here now is Ryan in Annapolis, Md. Hi, Ryan.

RYANHi, Kojo. Thanks for taking my call. I just had a real quick thing I wanted to say. At our house -- I mean, we live in small apartment and -- but, of course, I have -- our TV is probably bigger than I really need. And, you know, we have a Wii and a PlayStation 3 and everything. And what we got is -- I heard you mention about a smart power strip that automatically powers things down.

NNAMDIYes.

RYANBut what we have is -- it's not quite as advanced. It's -- it has a small wireless switch so that when we're not using our, you know, any of those devices, we can flip that little switch and, in effect, it kills all the power to everything that's plugged into the strip. So, you know, it's -- it requires a little bit more input from the user. But that's one way that we have done it, and it's (unintelligible) .

NNAMDIRyan, can you -- do you have a comparison before you started using that device and after, how it affected your electricity bills?

RYANWell, we got them when we moved into the apartment that we're in. And we had -- we did have a reference from the previous tenants. Now, what their overall usage was, I don't know. But their bills were averaging about $120 to $130 a month, and ours is at 90. So...

NNAMDIOh, good.

RYAN...I can't attribute all of that to, you know, simply having a, you know, turning off the PlayStation and the television and everything. But, you know, maybe we keep the air conditioning and heating at different levels too. But, you know, it has -- I think it has made at least some impact and, you know, every little bit helps so...

NNAMDIDoug Johnson?

JOHNSONSure. And I think -- again, we have a caller who's taking real steps to save energy at home. I think it helps to backup to take the big picture perspective here, and that electronics is -- I think it was mentioned at the beginning of the show -- uses between 12 and 15 percent of household electricity consumptions. So that's about, you know, 12 to 15 percent of your bill attributable to electronics. In the world of electronics, then we have the TV, the PC and a set-top boxes as relatively larger sources, I think the game console is up there as well.

JOHNSONBut in each and every category of our industry, we have an energy efficiency story to tell. And in most cases, we have an ENERGY STAR program. So, again, back to the, you know, consumer perspective here, I think it's important for the consumer to make the right choice at retail. And that choice is being made easier not just with the ENERGY STAR label, but with a new program that the Federal Trade Commission just finalized early this year that applies to televisions.

JOHNSONAnd what we're talking about are energy use disclosures for electronics, starting with TVs. This is similar to what you see when -- if you've bought a refrigerator or washing machine, the yellow sticker telling you about how much it costs to operate that product over a year on average. So you'll be equipped at the point of sale with better information about TV power consumption across the wide range of TV models that are on the store shelf.

JOHNSONAnd going forward, the FTC is going to look at computers, monitors, set-top boxes, stand-alone DVRs and potentially other products as well. Some believe that the energy guide label may be more important than ENERGY STAR in the future because it gives you more information. It tells you the number, how much is it gonna cost to use this on average over the course of the year. And you can make your decision.

NNAMDIRyan, thank you for your call. Noah Horowitz, we got this email from Ellen in Washington, "My sister's house has so many energy vampires going, that when I sleep over, the sound of electronics humming keeps me up at night. I'm going over there with an energy cost monitor this weekend to help show her how to reduce her electric bill. Can your guests talk a little bit about kilowatts and other energy cost monitors? I find them useful for waking up energy users to the vampires in their midst." Noah Horowitz.

HOROWITZGreat question, thanks. There's a device called a Kill A Watt, K-I-L-L space A W-A-T-T, and it's a little handheld device that you plug any of your devices in and plug it into that box, which is plugged in to the wall, and it will tell you how many watts of product is drawing and how much it costs to operate that product over a month or a year, and you get to input your electricity rate. That's where you get those a-ha moments, like, oh, my son turned off the TV but forgot to turn off the game console, and that's drawing 100 watts. I had no idea.

HOROWITZThen you go to your DVR, same thing. And then with your computer, it could be very helpful. Some people put on a screensaver, a picture of their grandchildren or their pet or their virtual aquarium. Screensavers don't save energy. In fact, they make your computer work even harder because you're displaying the image. That computer and monitor are probably drawing 50 or 100 watts instead of the one to two watts it should draw.

HOROWITZSo we think it is a great idea for people to buy and pass around to their friends and neighbors these Kill A Watt or equivalent products. And that's a great way to inform where your vampires are and, hopefully, you can put them to sleep.

NNAMDIOn to Randy in Washington, D.C. Randy, your turn.

RANDYYes. Hello, Kojo. I have a question. I'm an audiophile, and I have several high-end components. And when I look in the manual, it says it's best to leave them on for best performance. And that by leaving them on, it, you know, keeps the parts fresh inside. I wanted to get another opinion on that.

NNAMDIDoug Johnson.

JOHNSONIt may have something to do with conditioning the amplifier in those audio products. And I, myself, though represent the industry, don't have such high-end audio equipment at home. So I think your best source really would be the manufacturer if you're wondering if it's completely necessary or maybe third-party sources, such as trade publications. I'm sorry I don't know more specific information.

NNAMDIAnything you can help Randy with, Noah Horowitz?

HOROWITZI'm with Doug on that. I don't have more to add.

NNAMDIRandy, thank you for your call. Good luck to you.

RANDYAll right, thank you, bye.

NNAMDIOn to Kevin in Bowie, Md. Kevin, your turn.

KEVINThank you, Kojo. I just wanted to reiterate that your previous caller mentioned about a remote switch for the power strip. I use the same thing, and I do see positive results by plugging in all my home entertainment devices to it. The only downside, the cable company that I use, their cable box will actually lose its channel lineup when you unplug the cable box in power. So that's the only downside to actually physically turning off the device to a power strip with a remote.

NNAMDIBut I have noticed, when it loses the channel lineup, it comes back sometimes in 15 or 20 minutes, doesn't it?

KEVINI haven't experienced that myself, but I haven't really played around with it much. I just plug that one into -- an always on power.

NNAMDIYeah, I know it could be exasperating when you use the channel lineup, but as I said, I found it -- if you're a little patient, after awhile it comes back. Doug Johnson, is that your experience?

JOHNSONYes, I think this gets to the point I made earlier about having to strike the right balance between saving energy and then product utility. Consumers do, in many products, want instant on. They don't wanna wait even a minute and a half. I think in Mr. Horowitz's recent report on set-top boxes, there was a set-top box from the U.K. mentioned, which will go in to a deep sleep, and all it takes is about a minute and a half to power that up.

JOHNSONWell, to get a feel for a minute and a half, I could stop talking for a minute and a half on radio, but I don’t think it'd be a great idea. But it would -- you'd grow impatient and frustrated. And I think that’s what consumers would experience in having to wait a long time for something to power up or reset itself or download the latest program guides. So we really have to strike that balance between efficiency and utility in set-tops and a number of other products.

NNAMDII'm telling you, it started with instant coffee. You want everything (laugh) instantly now. We got to take a short break. When we come back, we will continue our conversation on "Energy Vampires: Electronics that Drain Power 24/7." You can still call us at 800-433-8850. Have you ever measured the energy efficiency of your electronic devices? What did you find out? 800-433-8850. Send us a tweet, @kojoshow. Go to our website, kojoshow.org. Join the conversation. Or email kojo@wamu.org. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.

NNAMDIThis Tech Tuesday conversation on "Energy Vampires: Electronics that Drain Power 24/7" has generated a lot of listeners, calls, emails, tweets and visits to our website. And here to try to answer some of those questions is Doug Johnson, vice president of technology policy with the Consumer Electronics Association, and Noah Horowitz, senior scientist and director with the Center for Energy Efficiency Standard -- Standards with the Natural Resources Defense Council.

NNAMDIWe got an email from Dave in California, Noah Horowitz, who says, "FTC labels on televisions demonstrate that most TVs are as efficient as they will ever be, $18 to operate a 46-inch TV yearly. Can you ask for something better than that? It's apparent that TV makers are doing a great job and do not need regulations. They've got a good handle on this." What do you say to that, Noah?

HOROWITZI say, excuse me, we're at a very good place now. But if you look two, three years ago when the standards were discussed, a 42-inch TV, a plasma TV might have consumed three or 400 watts. Now that’s down to 100 watts. And the standards have done their job and moved the industry to making this a priority, and there are even additional potential savings available. Most of the energy for a TV is the lights in the back of the TV, and now they're moving to even more efficient LED backlights.

HOROWITZAnd we'll see, you know, additional savings at 10 to 20 percent possible, and that's what's being discussed at ENERGY STAR right now. So even though we've made great progress, more progress is coming. Just like we're starting to see better refrigerators, air conditioners and clothes washers, even though dramatic improvements happened in the past, there's still a lot of fat left on these products.

NNAMDIFrom the past, Doug, to the future, looking there, what do you know about 3-D TVs and how they'll perform in energy use?

JOHNSONSure. There is a premium on 3-D -- for 3-D viewing for power consumption, but it's not terribly significant. I think the most important thing there, really, is to quantify it, to amend the test procedure for measuring energies and TVs that's out there right now, amend it to include 3-D television so that we have a way to get an apples-to-apples comparison in a database of power consumption. So it adds a margin, but it's not terribly significant.

JOHNSONBut, nonetheless, I think it's important to quantify that and basically have a standard way of measuring that 3-D power consumption just like we do for 2-D TV as well.

NNAMDIYou mentioned earlier in the broadcast, IPTV. What did you want to say about that in terms of energy consumption?

JOHNSONWell, it was with respect to set-top boxes, which are predominantly for cable and satellite, but also, to some extent, for IPTV or TV delivered over the Internet. So you have at least, well, those three kinds of set-top boxes plus other boxes, as Mr. Horowitz mentioned earlier, Apple TV and Roku have Internet-connected boxes. So you have a variety of set-top boxes, and that marketplace is changing rapidly, just as televisions have and will continue.

JOHNSONSo it's a challenge, I think, to address energy efficiency with a -- an inflexible regulation such as what we saw come out of California or what sometimes the Department of Energy takes us in approach. It's much better, we believe, to have a flexible program like ENERGY STAR that keeps pace with all these changes and that it can account for new product categories and various features and functions that come in and out of these devices. I think the last thing we wanna do is constrain innovation by unnecessary regulation.

NNAMDISame question to you, Noah Horowitz, 3-D TVs.

HOROWITZSo 3-TV is still in its infancy. There isn't much content. We're concerned that this could result in a pretty big increase in energy use. And why is that? Most implementations today, you're putting on the equivalent of dark sunglasses to watch the show and, as a result, you'll say, hey, that doesn't look bright enough. And you might manually change the setting to a much brighter setting and forget to change it back. So, as a result, you've just increased the energy use of your TV by 10 to 20 percent.

HOROWITZSome manufacturers have a smarter implementation, where they have the equivalent of a 3-D boost. The TV automatically boosts its picture brightness when you're watching a 3-D image. And when you're done, it goes back to its regular setting. So, as Doug said, I agree. We're still trying to learn more about this, but it's a potential concern. It can result in giving back some of these hard-earned energy savings.

NNAMDINoah, one more area of home electronics where vampires may lurk is on our desk, where computers and all the accessories we attach to them may be using energy even at rest. What advice do you have for the home office? You mentioned earlier that screensavers are not really energy efficient at all.

HOROWITZSure. We like to talk about the computer ecosystem and the TV ecosystem. So at the center of the computer, one, you've got your computer. If you have a desktop, you have a monitor, a printer, you might have speakers, and all of those are consuming some level of power even when turned off. So as other speakers have mentioned, you can have your computer go to sleep and keep that hot, if you will, with a smart power strip and have all those other things go all the way down to 0 watts when you're not using them.

HOROWITZWe're also -- while we're making progress in bringing more features into our home, there's an energy and an environmental consequence. Now we have high-speed Internet. Now we have a router that's on 24 hours a day. That's drawing about five watts. And you've got a cable modem and you're distributing the contents around your home. So that's another five to $10 worth of power. And, again, these devices are fully on all the time.

HOROWITZIf they had some smart predictive behavior, they'd notice, hey, you're not using your computer between 11 at night and seven in the morning. It should power down to some very low level of power and then boot up when you come back.

NNAMDIWe got an email from John in D.C., who says, "You keep saying computers are energy vampires. I have a Mac and I never let it sleep. I always power it down when I'm not using it." Is it still sucking energy even when it's off and there are no lights or digital displays, Doug?

JOHNSONWell, I'd stress the importance of power management. I also wanted to mention with respect to the previous caller as well a statistic that I heard from a colleague in the computer industry that computers, over the past 30 years of their history, have had a three million percent energy efficiency improvement. I mean, there's just been a dramatic improvement over time in that category as with all of our others.

JOHNSONBut, as Mr. Horowitz and callers have mentioned previously, it's really important to take advantage of the power management features that you do have in your computer, laptop or desktop. I think, also, with respect to the home office environment, you can find efficiency, not only in energy efficiency, but efficiency of materials used by buying a multifunction device as opposed to a separate printer, scanner or copier.

JOHNSONYou find that frequently now as a combined or a converged device. I think that's a great example of efficient design, less materials used and energy efficiency all in one.

NNAMDIOn to Michael in Washington, D.C. Michael, your turn.

MICHAELHi, Kojo. Thank you for taking my call. I just had a question, especially since we're talking about computers now. I know it used to be, granted this maybe was a decade ago, that, you know, CPUs and certain computer components were actually affected by power cycling, turning them on, turning them off. And the recommendation was always leave your computer running.

MICHAELAnd I know, you know, we -- you were talking about game consoles, which are effectively, as you mentioned, just computers. Is it still the case? Does power cycling make a difference in terms of the longevity of these components? Or is that really no longer really applicable?

NNAMDINoah Horowitz.

HOROWITZTen, 20 years ago, you'd be exactly right that turning these things on would shorten their life. That's not an issue with these products. If I can add one thing quickly, two vampires that we haven't mentioned in the home are your DustBuster, which is a very inefficient -- has a very inefficient charging system and uses lots and lots of power. So if you're gonna be away for a while, I'd recommend taking the DustBuster out of the socket.

HOROWITZAnd, also, if you have one of those small bookshelf stereo systems, those little small component systems, even when turned off, that's one of the biggest vampires. Those draw 10 to 30 watts, even when you've turned them off for some unknown reason to us. So that's another one to take a harder look at.

NNAMDIAnd, Michael, thank you for your call. We got an email from Jane in Accokeek, who says, "I've wondered why outlets and light circuits cannot be modified with devices that can interrupt the current wirelessly. If we can cut off the TV and the channel box, why can't we have a remote that stops current at the wall? It could be equipped with zones for each room." Noah Horowitz?

HOROWITZMany of us who've traveled around the world for business have experienced a master off switch, and it's the same concept. So the key card when you go into your hotel, when you leave the room and take your key, the air-conditioning cycles down and all the lights go out, and most of the circuits go to 0 watts. Those concepts could be applied at the home. We just need to do that in a smart way and make sure all these systems can talk to each other, which isn't a given.

NNAMDIIndeed, we got an email from Tom in Silver Spring, who says, "While staying in a German hotel, we discovered that to turn on the TV, we had to press a button on the set, then we could use the remote. When we turned the TV off, it was all the way off. I would be glad if American manufacturers use that design." Doug Johnson?

JOHNSONWell, I think this gets to the utility issue again. While that is a feature in some televisions, for sure, I think most people prefer the ease of use of remote control. As an industry, we're always concerned when government dictates certain features and functions in products. I think that feature in Europe came as a result of regulation, but I'm not certain. In any case, I think most consumers prefer the ease of use of a remote control.

JOHNSONAnd there are ways that you can tie in all your electronics and your home entertainment system to a single remote control, switch them off and switch them on as needed.

NNAMDIWe got this post on our website from Chrissy, Noah Horowitz. "I'm less concerned about so-called energy vampires than I am about consumer behavior. If people simply turned products off or, even better, unplugged them, we could recognize a great deal of savings." But then there's this from Chrissy. "I'm tired of grandpa government and the NRDC telling me how to live my life. If I wanna cut my energy bill, I'm happy to hear suggestions, but I want to make those decisions myself, not have the EPA make them for me." What would you say to Chrissy, Noah Horowitz?

HOROWITZThe example of set-top box is a great example of why we might need some additional regulation. It's because we're spending about $2 billion a year to power devices when they're not in use, and the industry, to date, hasn't made this a priority. As a result, there are about an additional six power plants that are being needed, and those are emitting hazardous pollution and global warming pollutants.

HOROWITZSo these regulations make a lot of sense as they save consumers a lot of money and improve our air quality. The other thing is these standards are almost always performance-based. They allow the industry complete flexibility. So if there's an energy efficiency standard for refrigerators, which we've had for over 20 years, for a certain size fridge, the manufacturer has an energy budget, and they can get there any way they want.

HOROWITZThey could put more insulation. They could pick a more efficient motor, compressor. They can figure out how to optimize things themselves. So we've had standards across the board in our homes, and they've made a lot of sense and saved billions and billions of dollars.

NNAMDIBefore you respond, Doug Johnson, I think Adam in Fairfax, Va., has a comment about that specific issue. Adam, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

ADAMYeah. So my comment is basically that the regulation of set-top boxes seems a bit strange given that the reason why they consume power 24/7 is completely related to the way the cable network works, where it requires that you have an ongoing connection with the set-top box.

ADAMAnd that's sort of a historical fact. I think the fact of the matter is, is that when the cable networks complete upgrades to a newer way of doing things, that will enable set-top boxes to consume far less power. But the way that that should be accomplished, I think, is not to regulate the boxes, but maybe to encourage cable operators to continue work that way.

NNAMDIWe only have about 30 seconds left, so here's Doug Johnson first, and hopefully Noah Horowitz can get in a few words.

JOHNSONSure. Earlier, a question was about consumer -- we certainly believe consumers are making the right choices when it comes to energy efficiency, and they're prompted by ENERGY STAR, and they will have increasing amount of information available as a result of FTC's EnergyGuide label in the future. So we think that artificially constraining the development of set-top boxes or other products with limits imposed by government probably isn't the best approach. Existing approaches seem to be working. That's what we wanna support.

NNAMDINoah Horowitz.

HOROWITZWe think consumers should buy ENERGY STAR products, not just for consumer electronics, but it's your fridge or clothes washer, and make sure you use those things in a smart way. Settings really do matter. So like we said in your TV, pick the right setting, get rid of that screensaver and so forth. Thanks so much.

NNAMDINoah Horowitz is senior scientist and director with the Center for Energy Efficient Standards with the Natural Resources Defense Council. Doug Johnson is vice president of technology policy with the Consumer Electronics Association. Thank you all for listening. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.