MR. KOJO NNAMDIFrom WAMU 88.5 at American University in Washington, welcome to "The Kojo Nnamdi Show," connecting your neighborhood with the world. Later in the broadcast, the future of women in American politics in general and on national security issues in particular. But first, nearly a decade later, Washington turns a page from the Sept. 11th terrorist attacks. President Obama announced last night that Osama bin Laden, the architect of the 2001 attacks on New York and Washington, has been killed. A team of Navy SEALs raided bin Laden's hideout in the Pakistani city of Abbottabad this weekend acting on intelligence the Obama administration had been investigating for months.

MR. KOJO NNAMDIBin Laden's death is a major development in America's war against al-Qaida, the terrorist organization he led for more than two decades, but the president noted in his remarks last night that that fight is far from over. Joining us to explore how this next chapter is likely to play out on Capitol Hill and around the globe is Benjamin Cardin. He's a member of the United States Senate. He's a Democrat from Maryland, a member of the Foreign Relations Committee. Senator Cardin, thank you for joining us.

SEN. BENJAMIN CARDINKojo, it's a pleasure to be on your show. Thanks.

NNAMDISenator Cardin joins us by phone as does Gerald Connolly. He's a member of the U.S. House of Representatives, a Democrat from Virginia, member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Congressman Connolly, thank you for joining us.

REP. GERALD CONNOLLYGood to be back with you, Kojo.

NNAMDIAlso joining us by phone is Donna Edwards, member of the House of Representatives, a Democrat from Maryland. Congresswoman Donna Edwards, thank you for joining us.

REP. DONNA EDWARDSThank you, Kojo. And it's good to be with our colleagues, too.

NNAMDISenator Cardin, you are running on the tightest schedule. I'll start with you. It was a dramatic announcement last night that only a few people knew was coming, but President Obama told the world that bin Laden's death was the result of a targeted operation that the administration had been planning for months. How and when did you learn about the strike, Senator Cardin, and what was your immediate reaction to it?

CARDINWell, I think I learned when the rest of Americans learned, and the president handled this exactly right. This brings closure to -- for the families of the victims of 9/11, and for our nation, and brought justice to this circumstance, and we got rid of the most dangerous terrorist in the world. So it was good news. When I heard it, I joined others in celebration that we finally were able to bring justice to the mastermind of the 9/11 attacks.

NNAMDICongressman Connolly, when did you hear about it? What was your immediate reaction?

CONNOLLYI actually got a phone call from my daughter, who's away at university, to let me know that she had seen the news.

NNAMDIAnd you, Congresswoman Edwards?

EDWARDSWell, I learned it watching the news just like many of my colleagues and Americans all across the country.

NNAMDICongressman Connolly, what was your immediate reaction?

CONNOLLYMy reaction was one of relief that we've finally had closure on this very important chapter in the war on terror. So I just experienced enormous relief that this part of it is over.

NNAMDISenator Cardin, was there anything about the circumstances of the strike that surprised you? It seems that for so long our focus has been on that mountainous tribal region between Pakistan and Afghanistan, not the city about an hour away from Islamabad where he was ultimately found.

CARDINWell, I think it gives us pride in the intelligence agencies in the United States and our military, the professionalism which they handled this. The great news was that we not only killed bin Laden but no one was -- on our team suffered any casualties, and it was done very efficiently and very professionally. So I think it's with great pride how our military and our intelligence community handled this.

NNAMDICongresswoman Edwards, any surprises there for you?

EDWARDSWell, I think the big surprise was the proximity of the compound where Osama bin Laden had been to Islamabad, and I think it raises the concern that Secretary of State Clinton raised and was roundly criticized for, for pointing out the importance of working with our -- with the Pakistanis and then being more aggressive in identifying a location for bin Laden, and I'm very proud of the president, our entire national security team, military and intelligence for keeping a closed loop on what happened to make sure that we were able, in fact, to either capture or, as it happened, to kill Osama bin Laden.

NNAMDISenator Cardin, what for you are the immediate consequences of bin Laden's death for American foreign policy?

CARDINWell, first, I think it makes us a little bit less vulnerable. Clearly, his removal removes one of the most dangerous people in modern history and the person who was able to recruit others to this type of terrorist activities, but we still have to be vigilant. There's no question that the world is still very dangerous, and our foreign policy, it showed that the United States can bring closure to this issue. I think it gives confidence to our allies and our strategic partners, but it also tells us that we need to continue our efforts to make sure that we eliminate these extremists wherever we find them.

NNAMDIWe're talking with Senator Benjamin Cardin. He's a Democrat from Maryland, a member of the Foreign Relations Committee. Congressman Gerald Connolly is a Democrat from Virginia, a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee, and Congresswoman Donna Edwards is a Democrat from Maryland. They all joined us by telephone, and you can join the conversation by telephone also, calling 800-433-8850, 800-433-8850, or going to our website, kojoshow.org, joining the conversation there. Congressman Gerald Connolly, what do you feel about how this -- bin Laden's death is likely to affect foreign policy? Allow me to be more specific, how does this shape your opinion of the war we're fighting in Afghanistan right now?

CONNOLLYWell, I think that it does demonstrate that some patience and discipline pay off. I think I agree with Donna Edwards that the president and his national security team deserve a lot of credit for keeping this very close to the vest, no leaks. Reportedly, the president chaired nine separate security council meetings over a six-week period, and that's an extraordinary feat in Washington D.C. to keep that a secret. Moving forward, however, I think we have to be vigilant, as Senator Cardin said, and recognize that while we have sort of decapitated the leadership of al-Qaida over the last 10 years, in some ways, maybe one of the unintended consequences of that is that they're more defused than ever. They're in more remote locations, harder to get at, establishing themselves some places like Yemen, Somalia and even the Sudan. And so, you know, we've got our work cut out for us still as we move forward.

NNAMDICongresswoman Edwards, I'm going to get to you in a second. But, Senator Cardin, specifically, how do you feel this affects our policy and the war we're fighting in Afghanistan right now?

CARDINWell, this is really good news. Clearly, to be a focus on the Afghan-Pakistan border and now that we were able to penetrate where bin Laden was being held up, I think, it gives more confidence of the relationship between Pakistan and the United States in fighting the campaign against al-Qaida along the Afghan border. So I think it helps the Afghans understand that we are able to make this major advancement in Pakistan which helps in the security with Afghanistan. So this is good news in regards to the future of Afghanistan.

NNAMDISenator Cardin, thank you so much for joining us.

CARDINThank you very much, Kojo. It's good to be on your show, and I like to be with my colleagues. Thanks.

NNAMDIBenjamin Cardin is a member of the United States Senate, a Democrat from Maryland, member of the Foreign Relations Committee. Congresswoman Donna Edwards, your views on the war in Afghanistan are pretty well-known. How does the death of bin Laden affect your views?

EDWARDSWell, I think it does give us a reason and the president's team to examine our engagement in Afghanistan and if it is indeed the right approach in terms of how we deal with terrorism. I mean, it's interesting that this -- that Osama bin Laden's death was actually attributed to deep human intelligence toward -- with a team that was very discretely formed and was able to perform that strike. And that's not at all in so many ways the ways that we're engaged in Afghanistan. And so I would hope that it would cause us to really examine whether we have the right strategy and approach when it comes to terrorism that is increasingly defused and networked but not necessarily connected at an operational level, and that might require some more distinct and both aggressive but specific strategies in terms of approaching terrorism.

EDWARDSAnd so I'm looking forward to that engage -- that kind of conversation because it's not clear to me that necessarily the hundreds of thousands of troops in Afghanistan is the way that we need to tackle an increasingly defused operation of terrorists around the world.

NNAMDIAre you making a distinction therefore between counterinsurgency and counterterrorism, Congresswoman Edwards?

EDWARDSAbsolutely. And I think that this is the conversation that we need to have. I think it's important for us to, you know, to understand the significance of killing Osama bin Laden, but that is not -- that may be a page in a book, but it's not a book that's closed. And I would like to have seen us especially over the years have a much greater emphasis on human intelligence which was seen -- it was the key to locating Osama bin Laden and to a more surgical implementation of a strategy in terms of killing him. And I think that this calls for that kind of examination, and I'm looking forward to that conversation.

NNAMDICongressman Connolly, do you think that conversation will take place? What I hear Congresswoman Donna Edwards saying is that we need to continue in the business of fighting or countering terrorism in the way that we did through intelligence and get out of the business of being involved in counterinsurgency in Afghanistan.

CONNOLLYWell, I think, you know, President Obama did announce, you know, a scheduled withdrawal of troops from Afghanistan. I believe that yesterday's event underscored the importance of that and hopefully that will stay on schedule. You know, I think none of us want to stay in Afghanistan any longer than we need to. I think our goals there need to be clear and limited, and that has to do with making sure that we clean out, you know, those nests that harbor terrorists in the first place. That's why we went into Afghanistan. We kind of lost sight of the goal with the invasion of Iraq, but I don't want to see the engagement in Afghanistan expanded, and I think all of us want to see it wound down in an orderly way, but one that does not provide for safe haven for terrorists again because that would simply require us to go back in.

NNAMDIGot to take a short break. We're going to come back and continue this conversation with Congressman Gerald Connolly of Virginia. He's a Democrat and a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Congresswoman Donna Edwards of Maryland is a Democrat. And we invited Congress members Frank Wolf, Eric Cantor and Andy Harris, all Republicans, to join today's conversation. None of them were able to be available for the broadcast, but we have several telephone calls. We'll ask you to hold on while we take this short break, but you too can call us at 800-433-8850, send us a tweet, @kojoshow, or e-mail to kojo@wamu.org. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.

NNAMDIWelcome back to our conversation with area members of Congress about reaction to bin Laden's death -- Osama bin Laden's death in Pakistan. We're talking with Congresswoman Donna Edwards of Maryland and Congressman Gerald Connolly of Virginia and taking your calls at 800-433-8850. Congressman Connolly, some people feel that the al-Qaida branch in the Arabian Peninsula, which has launched several recent attempted attacks on the United States from Yemen, has become the more immediate threat.

NNAMDIHow do you think we can best handle the threats posed by the al-Qaida branches and leadership that are still in place? Oh, I think -- go ahead, Congresswoman Edwards, yes.

EDWARDSKojo, this is Congresswoman Donna Edwards and...

NNAMDIPlease, go ahead.

EDWARDS...I just wanna say, I mean, I think that, obviously, the situation in Yemen through al-Qaida and -- on the Arabian Peninsula poses significant challenges for us and, at the same time, there's a lot of volatility going on in the country of Yemen with its leadership with whom we have been working. I think that this underscores the challenge of this, sort of, wide-scale operations versus really focusing on where the threat is and going more directly and deeply, whether it's in Yemen or Somalia or Sudan or across the region.

EDWARDSSo I hope that that, you know, we are able to focus there. It makes it very difficult to do, frankly, when so many of our resources are going into -- in Afghanistan, for example.

NNAMDICongressman Connolly, how do you think we can best handle those threats posed by the al-Qaida branches and the leadership that are still in place?

CONNOLLYWell, I think we've made a lot of progress in the last 10 years in terms of human intelligence and reestablishing our capabilities after 9/11. But I do think that the challenge is great because al-Qaida is more diffused, and I think will become even more so after the events of yesterday, and tends to locate itself in more remote and unstable parts of the region. And that presents an enormous challenge to the United States, especially as that region is going through great political transformation.

CONNOLLYSo we have to stay vigilant. We have to, you know, stay invested in the intelligence we've already made. And we're all gonna have to make sure that we're prepared to act when the opportunity arises.

NNAMDIHere is Mathias (sp?) in Washington, D.C. Mathias, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

MATHIASHi, Kojo. Thanks for taking my call. I'm very much pleased by the intelligence (word?) by the president has been walking on. It assures you that in spite of all the politics in Washington, he has always focused his mind on trying to capture bin Laden. And I believe, the last time where he talked about this intelligence about bin Laden somewhere in Pakistan, and he has always kept his focus. That is what I call strategic (word?) when it comes to U.S. foreign policy. It does not wane at all.

MATHIASAnd I believe if we keep on moving that direction, (unintelligible) fact that we have captured Osama bin Laden. Now, we shall have what you call all al-Qaida apologetics, wherever they are, please report them. We need the intelligence to keep on the move because complacency was responsible for what happened to us. And now, we have had a breakthrough. Osama bin Laden was nothing but a sort of conscience on those who support him but not as (word?) you know (unintelligible), now he's swimming with the fishes.

MATHIASIt's about time now we lay out strict measures, just as the congressman said, lay out some strict strategic measures to bring them in. If there's anyone affiliated with that organization, we need to take them out. We should not be complacent.

NNAMDIOkay. Mathias...

MATHIASIf they are (unintelligible) they need to go.

NNAMDIOkay, Mathias. Thank you very much for your call. We move on to Anthony in Fairfax, Va. Anthony, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

ANTHONYYes, Kojo. Thanks for taking my call. I'll make this brief. I just wanted to comment on the amazing -- the coincidence of all of your Republican representatives that you asked to be present on this program not being available. You don't think perhaps it's a chance that they want to get their act together less they inadvertently lay some praise on this president?

NNAMDII'll leave that speculation entirely up to you, Anthony. It's my job only to say that they were invited and could not be available for the broadcast today. We will see...

ANTHONYWell, then that's my comment.

NNAMDIThank you.

ANTHONYI think, again, they're just playing politics over the country. And lest they inadvertently say something good about this guy, they wanna get their act together.

NNAMDICongresswoman Donna Edwards, Congressman Gerald Connolly, it seems to me that there is some degree of unanimity in the Congress of the United States over the United States taking out Osama bin Laden, so I do not attribute a great deal of significance to the fact that we were not able to get three Republican members of Congress to appear on this broadcast. Congresswoman Edwards, do you feel there's still some division or partisanship over this issue?

EDWARDSI don't know. There shouldn't be. I mean, we're all Americans. And, you know, for the families who lost family members and loved ones in 9/11, to the service members who served and sacrificed, we're Americans, and I hope that all of us take what president Obama said last night instead, and that is that we regain that sense of unity as a country that we had after 9/11, use that to pursue peace and justice in the world and use that to bring honor to the lives of those families.

EDWARDSAnd, you know, so, you know, Osama bin Laden, he, as the president said, that wasn't about Islam or the faith, and this is an opportunity for us to play a very different kind of role both in the region, given the volatility and the change that's happening throughout that region to shape it in a different way than it's been shaped in the past.

NNAMDICongressman Connolly, I know it's Monday. You may not have had yet an opportunity to speak with any of your Republican colleagues. But one gets the impression that there is likely to be bipartisan approval of this.

CONNOLLYI think that's right. And while I respect what Anthony from Fairfax had to say, I would cut some slack for my colleagues who could not participate today. You know, Congress is just coming back. We have our first vote at 6:30 tonight. A lot of people are traveling after the work period these last two weeks. And so, I agree with you, Kojo, that I wouldn't read anything into that. And I do think this is an opportunity for the country to reunite and to recommit itself to common goals.

CONNOLLYI think that, sadly, some of the unity that was achieved after the tragedy of 9/11 was significantly dissipated in the political campaign of 2002, where people's patriotism was actually questioned, including, of course, Sen. Max Cleland of Georgia, who left two legs and one arm in Vietnam in service to his country, one of the most shameful episodes in American political history. Hopefully we're not gonna repeat that, and I believe President Obama struck just the right tone last night, and I think Republicans and Democrats have responded to it. And, I think, moving forward, hopefully, we can preserve some of that unity.

NNAMDIHere is Richard in Silver Spring, Md. Richard, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

RICHARDThanks, Kojo. Thanks for having me on. I am a little concerned. I was on my way -- I teach a class in Columbia, Md. on Monday mornings, 10:00 to noon, and I live in Silver Spring. I was on my way to class this morning and, of course, had NPR on. And the -- they were interviewing a Pakistani journalist. I forget her name. But she was saying something to the effect that this town, this city where they found bin Laden, not only was it a military compound but it was a military city, that Pakistani military was all over this town.

RICHARDAnd then I finished teaching class at noon, and I came to -- you know, go home to Silver Spring and, of course, turned on NPR and began listening to your program. And it seems to me, anyway, that there is a certain amount of backpedalling on this issue as to the role of the Pakistani government in this. This is supposed to be our great ally in the War on Terror. And it's hard -- it, actually, is impossible for me to believe that the government of Pakistan didn't know that he was there.

NNAMDIThere...

RICHARDI know -- I just hope that our government leaders will examine that very carefully. And, Kojo...

NNAMDIRichard...

RICHARD...I'll take any comments off air.

NNAMDISure. There's likely to be a great deal of speculation about this moving forward, Richard. But I just like to hear Congresswoman Donna Edwards comment on it, because when we look at the intelligence services in Pakistan and the government in Pakistan, one is reminded, Congresswoman Edwards, that all politics tends to be local.

EDWARDSWell, I think that's true. I mean, I think it's one of the things that I alluded to when I spoke references earlier is that Sen. Clinton -- Secretary of State Clinton actually mentioned this and then came under great fire by Pakistani officials, you know, questioning, were there were aspects or elements in Pakistan that were not contributing in a positive way, given the United States' commitment to Pakistan to finding, capturing Osama bin Laden. And I do think it is quite interesting that Osama bin Laden was not killed in some remote area or some place.

EDWARDSHe was, in fact, just one hour away from Islamabad, in a town that had both military and law enforcement with this, apparently, you know, really huge complex going up around much smaller homes and that somebody could've and should've raised a question about that. But what I do credit is our -- the United States intelligence and our president for examining that and for holding it really close to the vest to make sure that it was -- that intelligence was not compromised.

EDWARDSAnd I think it, you know, it speaks to the concern that maybe is not spoken outwardly that there are elements within the intelligence services in Pakistan that have not always been as cooperative as possible, that that's not speaking necessarily to Mr. Zardari, but it is saying that the United States really needed to keep this operation really close to its vest, run the operation and take the direction from the president of the United States to make sure that the job was done.

NNAMDICongressman Connolly, it underscores the delicate nature of the relationship we have with Pakistan in general and with its intelligence service in particular.

CONNOLLYYes. I think we have to recognize that the relationship with Pakistan is a multifaceted one. There are many, many aspects to it. It is a nuclear power. It is strategically located. It is a huge population. And there are many, many different dynamics within that government -- not all of them good. I think it's fair to say that, you know, Pakistanis themselves have had their own terrorist threats they've had to face and have been more or less forthcoming in the last couple of years in cooperation with the United States, but there are elements of the Pakistani government that remained, I think, resistant to that collaboration and that cooperation.

CONNOLLYAnd, indeed, we know that over the last 10 years in our search for bin Laden, they've been times where there have been clear leaks to al-Qaida to allow leadership, including bin Laden, to escape coming from certain elements of the intelligence community in Pakistan. So the compartmentalization of our relationship, including, clearly, the compartmentalization of this operation, I think, is gonna be very important moving forward. But at the end of the day, we have to persuade Pakistan that it's in their interest to cooperate and collaborate with the United States in its fight against terror.

NNAMDIRichard, thank you very much for your call. Congressman Connolly, thank you for joining us.

CONNOLLYMy great pleasure. Thank you.

NNAMDIGerald Connolly is the Democrat from Virginia and a member of the House Foreign Affairs Committee. Donna Edwards, before you go, just one more question, because before this news break, the big news of the -- broke the big news of the weekend was the NATO airstrike in Libya that killed Moammar Gadhafi's son and several of his grandchildren on Saturday. Do you see this continuing to be an issue, after all this was the apparent targeting of a head of state as opposed to a known terrorist?

EDWARDSWell, I mean, I do think -- I mean, it, you know, it raises, you know, some questions. I mean, the fact is that we have to really examine what our goals are and the role of NATO and the United States in the operation in Libya and to be forthright with the American people and with the United States' Congress about what that is. And, you know, so I think we would have been focused on this story, frankly, had it not been for the, you know, the death -- killing of Osama bin Laden. And I think there will be additional concerns over the days and weeks ahead about what the goal and strategy is in Libya and look forward to hearing from the president about that.

NNAMDII think you're right. I don't think that story is going away either. Donna Edwards, thank you so much for joining us.

EDWARDSThank you, Kojo.

NNAMDICongresswoman Donna Edwards is a Democrat from Maryland. We're gonna take a short break. And since we were speaking with Donna Edwards, we will continue our conversation about the future of women in politics. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.