MR. MARC FISHERWell, switching gears, we're going to talk now about something very different, which is British food, mushy peas, blood pudding, clotted cream. These may not sound very appealing, but to a Brit, they sound like comfort food. Food from the British Isles used to vie for punch lines with airline and hospital fare, but the British food scene has improved tremendously and many Britains say Americans are clinging to an outdated view of their cuisine.

MR. MARC FISHERWell, we thought we would celebrate the royal wedding with a taste of Britain. We'll tell you where you can find the best pints, pasties and puddings in the D.C. area. The options are limited, but they are growing and here to tell us about them, we have Michael Burgess. He's the owner of the Pure Pasty Co. in Vienna, Va.

MR. MARC FISHERMichael is a native of Cheshire, England and has lived in the United States for two years. And Adam Stein, he's the executive chef at The Queen Vic, a new pub that opened on H Street Northeast in early April. Adam is from Northern Virginia. He trained in Rhode Island. He embarked on a culinary tour of the United Kingdom to get ready for the launch of The Queen Vic and so we have these experts on British food here with us.

MR. MARC FISHERIf you'd like to talk about British food, your favorites or perhaps your doubts about British food, join us at 1-800-433-8850 or you can e-mail us at kojo, K-O-J-O, @wamu.org. And Michael, let's start with you. Pasties, sounds like something we should be talking about on a segment about exotic dancers, but these are now widely available in the United States. Have not been widely available in the United States, but are a long tradition of the United Kingdom. What made you think that this would work in Vienna, Va.?

MR. MICHAEL BURGESSIt's been an idea of mine for quite a while. It's in other areas of the U.S., the northern states, Upper Peninsula Michigan, Montana, some areas of California, anywhere there was mining, you get a local population, probably migrant Cornish, and brought pasties to that area of the world. I thought that, right, there's an opening here along the East Coast, high population density, lots of population of widely traveled, been to the U.K., tasted the product there. So I'll bring it here.

FISHERAnd were you right?

BURGESSI was right, yes. That's certainly what I found in Vienna so far.

FISHERAnd Adam Stein, The Queen Vic. One part of the renaissance on H Street, Northeast that we're seeing of all kinds. It's a lot of rock 'n' roll and a lot of late night crowds looking for snacks as has been the mainstay of H Street so far. Where does British food fit in, in people's days, in the life of that street?

MR. ADAM STEINI think along with the renaissance of H Street, I think most of the new places have, as you say, a theme here or a theme there. I think we have the added benefit of the whole Capitol Hill area there. So we have a much wider audience, per se, than, you know, shows going on at the Rock 'n' Roll Hotel. So I think we find a really varied audience and our offerings are fun so I think that helps bring in a wider audience as well.

FISHERNow, as we can tell from your accent, you're not quite a native. What...

STEINMy grandmother's maiden is Hopkins so, I mean, it's in there somewhere.

FISHERClose enough.

STEINBut, no, I'm definitely a native to the states.

FISHERAnd so how did you fall in love with British food and what made you think it would work in Washington?

STEINWell, I'll be modest and say that I'm in the process of falling in love with British food. But I think one of the things that lends itself really well to this type of cuisine is that my background with the focus on local and sustainable foods, that's very much a part of the food renaissance that's going in the U.K. as well and I think the two have mirrored each other for the last 20 years or so. So I think it goes hand-in-hand.

FISHERNow, as both of you probably known too painfully well, if you Google British food, you get all kinds of derisive comments and pages about the quality of British food. But Michael Burgess, why does your country have such a poor reputation for food and why haven't you been able to correct that?

BURGESSWell, me personally, I hoping that I'm doing something to correct it at the moment and the feedback that I've had so far has been very, very positive. I think mainly it's historical and I think a lot of those comments are probably a little bit outdated now.

BURGESSYes, the British have a bit of a problem food-wise in the past. I think it all stems from post-war years and then getting, following down the road of processed food in the '60s and the '70s. But certainly in the last 10, 20 years, there's been certainly a huge push from celebrity chefs in the U.K., which influence the population and they're driving people into the more sustainable in food providence areas.

BURGESSChefs like Jamie Oliver, for example, or leading by example there. Showing people how to go from garden to the table and they're bringing that quality to the table nowadays and I think that is reflecting through all over.

FISHERLet's go to Vicky in Ashburn. We go from pasties to something called spotted dick. Vicky?

VICKYYes, hi. I was wondering what is spotted dick. Someone suggested I make it.

STEINWell, I'll let the native answer unless...

FISHERMichael?

BURGESSOkay. Spotted dick is a sponge pudding and it's a sponge pudding that you make and it contains currants. So it's a currant sponge pudding served warm, usually stemmed and contrary to the American definition of custard, it's usually served with custard rather than ice cream.

FISHERAnd dare we ask the derivation of the term?

BURGESSI'm not too sure about that so...

FISHERMaybe we shouldn't, okay. And, Michael, what exactly for those who don't know, what are pasties and where they come from?

BURGESSPasties originate from the very southwest corner of the U.K., a region called Cornwall or county called Cornwall. They're now a protected food in Cornwall to call it a Cornish pasty. It was traditionally the food of a Cornish tin miner and it was designed as being a portable element of food by wrapping up meat, vegetables and seasoning in a pastry crust then baking it.

BURGESSBeing able to wrap it up, carry it, take it down to the tin mine and then warm it up, usually warmed up on mining equipment and then it was there for them at lunchtime.

FISHERAnd how does it differ from a Jamaican patty or a potpie or an empanada? Those are similar kinds of foods, right?

BURGESSThey're very, very similar. Looking back historically, it's hard to say which one is the original out of those. There are certainly some theories that, this being a mining food, that it immigrated with minors that left Cornwall and then resided in other countries to do mining because of their occupation. So it could've emanated and taken from Cornwall. Then the influences of those population areas determine what the contents look like and taste like.

FISHERAnd you mentioned that it is now a protected food. Was it endangered or what about that protection?

BURGESSIt's the same level of EC protection that champagne is afforded. It has to come from the Champagne region of France to be called champagne. Anything else in the EC is a sparkling white wine. A lot of areas were producing pasties in the U.K. and claiming them to be Cornish pasties. Now, to be an original Cornish pasty it has to come from Cornwall.

FISHERSo if we walked into your shop in Vienna and saw the words Cornish pasty, we could take you to the European Commission for prosecution?

BURGESSYes, I think that depends on whether the reciprocal trade agreements were in place between the U.S. and the EC.

FISHEROkay. But you haven't had any complaints from Cornish folks?

BURGESSNot so far.

FISHERAnd, Michael, I'm sorry, Adam Stein, The Queen Vic had just opened in early April on H Street, Northeast and as I understand in addition to serving foods you're going to be selling some British groceries or commonly beloved or despised British basics?

STEINWell, Ryan and Ron, two of the three owners, Ron, she's definitely very enthusiastic about getting some of the lesser seen British goods that are available here and there but to do a touchup, like you'd find in some pubs over in the U.K. so we haven't done it quite yet. We've had a lot on our plate, but the hope is to soon have a fairly good variety of British groceries available.

FISHERSo things like HP sauce?

STEINWell, we actually already have HP sauce in-house, that's available to all of our guests, but the things like the salad creams and some various types of crisps, Hein's beans and just some of the things that you don't see quite as often, a lot of the candy bars and stuff as well.

FISHERMcVitty's digestives, the biscuits which I love.

STEINAbsolutely, absolutely.

FISHERAnd also Marmite?

STEINYes, I believe so. I believe it's on the way.

FISHERAll right. Between the two of you, one of you, I know, is going to be able to explain to me the mysteries of Marmite. Who'd like to go?

STEINAgain, I'm going to have to defer to the native.

BURGESSThis is a really difficult question.

FISHERI think the entirety of British culture is wrapped in this question.

BURGESSIt's a complete and utter mystery to me. Marmite defined the entire population. It's a case of people love it or people hate it, but I, together with a lot of people, don't understand who was the first person to take the byproducts of the brewing industry, reach down into a barrel with some treakely goo at the bottom, tasting of yeast and touch it with their finger and say this tastes particularly nice.

FISHERAnd it has a good dose of paving material in it, doesn't it?

BURGESSIt certainly looks like that as well. But we have Marmite and we have Vegemite as well. The Australians love Vegemite so -- and they're a very similar product.

FISHERFull-service grocer. Well, you can join our conversation about British food by calling 1-800-433-8850 or e-mail us at kojo@wamu.org. If you have a Marmite story you'd like to share, please pass that along. Now, obviously for a pub, Adam Stein, the British connection makes a lot of sense. Is that the kind of vibe that you're going for at The Queen Vic?

STEINI mean, I think the general vibe at The Queen Vic is certainly that of a pub, but not forgetting that it is located on H Street, Northeast in D.C. I mean, I don't think anyone's trying to do a carbon copy, I mean, especially, you know, the place being based, you know, the fictional pub in the Eastender sitcom.

STEINSo it's certainly tongue-in-cheek from the beginning. I think the general feel in the place is very public and I think on the food side of things we're trying to offer a lot of the things that you'd find at your corner pub. But then a lot of the things that I think people come to expect from forward thinking cuisine in the U.K. and in the U.S.

FISHERAnd so what would a neighborhood pub in the U.K. have that you don't have at The Queen Vic? What are the big differences?

STEINI think our food are probably a bit better than the average pub. But, again, I mean, in fact, H Street's a great example, because a lot of those corner pubs are your sort of, you know, hole-in-the-wall dive bars that we'd associate here in the States.

STEINBut that's exactly what you would find over in the U.K., places that have been for 50 years or longer and it's just sort of the local place to go hang out. So, I mean, in that respect, I think we're trying to create that vibe, but certainly we're a youngster. So I think we're looking for just a great atmosphere for friends and families to come in and have good food and beer as well.

FISHERDarts and soccer on TV and that sort of thing?

STEINRight. I mean, we have plenty of televisions, a little more than I'd like to, but we certainly have all of our soccer games and rugby matches and we certainly do what we can to have as many sport fans sated when they come in the door.

FISHERAnd the basic fare is things like fish and chips and shepherd's pie?

STEINThe core of the menu we do have some of the staples. We have a fish and chip, we have a banger 'n mash, we have steak 'n owl pie, perhaps our point of distinction is that we do everything in-house so all of our crusts for our steaks and ales, for our Cornish pasties, are done in-house.

STEINWe bake all of our bread daily and for, like, our sausages, we get it whole pigs, break them down onsite so the sausages are, nose to tail, done completely in-house for the entire menu.

FISHERWell, now there have been a few other British gastro pubs in the area that started and they've had sort of a mixed result so far. What makes you confident that this will be different?

STEINWell, I mean, if I can assert a comment, at least on the two that people are probably most familiar with and one is recently no longer with us. And I think in their case...

FISHERThat's the one in Colombia Heights?

STEINYes, that was The Commonwealth and I think they just got to the point where they sort of deluded themselves a little bit from maybe, perhaps their original mission statement. And so I think they just became another restaurant among the fray in Colombia Heights there. And then, with places like (word?), I think they do fantastic food there, and they use the best ingredients. I think they just went a little more upscale, which is perhaps antithetical to what the idea of a pub should be.

STEINBut then again, that's not to discount them as a great restaurant here in D.C. So I think we fall happily in the middle where we're just doing honest handmade food, and I think that fits in very well with the spirit of a local gastro in the U.K.

FISHERLet's got to Jessica in Alexandria, Va. Jessica, it's your turn.

JESSICAYes, hi. I was just calling in response to your conversation about Marmite.

FISHERYes.

JESSICAWell, my mom is from England. I was raised eating it, but I actually think it's pretty gross personally. But I was just calling to say that I find it really wonderful to cook with, because when you dilute it down and cook something like, say, a brisket in it, it adds a ton of flavor.

FISHERWell, if you dilute petroleum, it probably gets to a point where it's not bad for the dish. I'm just kidding. And Michael, have you ever cooked with Marmite?

BURGESSI have cooked with Marmite before, but that's mostly at home cooking. I haven't used it yet in any of the recipes in the shop for pasties, but that doesn't mean that we're not going to use it.

FISHERBut you'll have sufficient warning for customers when you do, I assume, right? And let's go to Arniem (sp?) in the District. Arniem, also about Marmite. You're on the air.

ARNEIMOh, hi. This is Arneim, yes.

FISHERYes.

ARNEIMI used to be a brand manager for Marmite in Great Britain in the 1990s.

FISHERWe're doing an all Marmite hour today.

ARNEIMManaging this business, I was very surprised to find out that it was extremely healthy product with a lot of folic acid. And as a German, I tried that product for the first time. I can tell you I was totally converted by having a very light spread on toast with a little butter, and that became one of my staples at breakfast.

FISHERWait, can I get this straight? You're a German and you were the brand manager for Marmite in the United States; is that right?

ARNEIMYes, in fact. Because...

FISHERWere the British having you on? What was the -- what was going on there?

ARNEIMThe company that owned Marmite was an international food company called Best Foods, and they took managers around the world. I was one of the international managers and really learned about the British food culture that way.

FISHERWow. And now that you're -- you're no longer doing that work; is that right?

ARNEIMNo. That was in the 1990s, correct. Yes.

FISHERSo now that -- now that you're free and clear, do you still use Marmite?

ARNEIMI still use Marmite. I can still get it here at some shops in Washington D.C., the specialty food shops that offer international foods, and I enjoy it.

FISHERNever let it be said that "The Kojo Nnamdi Show" doesn't have the top shelf listeners. We have the brand manager of Marmite. Well, thank you very much for the call. We really do appreciate it. And if you have a Marmite story to tell, or any other about British food, please join us at 1-800-433-8850. And when we come back after a short break, we'll learn what bangers and mash are. That's here on "The Kojo Nnamdi Show." I'm Marc Fisher.

FISHERWelcome back. I'm Marc Fisher sitting in for Kojo Nnamdi. We're talking about British food, and if you'd like to join us, we're at 1-800-433-8850. Talking to Michael Burgess. He's the owner of the Pure Pasty Company in Vienna, Va., just off Church Street next to Bikes of Virginia. He's a native of Cheshire, England. Adam Stein is executive chef at the Queen Vic at 1206 H Street Northeast, which opened in early April, and is serving British food as well as other things British over there on H Street.

FISHERAnd before the break, we were talking about Marmite, but we have another question about another British mystery, and that is bangers and mash. A reader asking -- sorry, a listening asking whether -- what bangers and mash are. Michael?

BURGESSBangers and mash, quite a simple dish really. I'm sure that Adam's cooking it so maybe he should field this one.

FISHEROkay.

STEINWell, I think most people stateside can relate to the mashed part, that's simply the mashed potatoes. And then the banger aspect is the tendency for natural casing sausages when cooked on a griddle or with high intense heat to literally explode, and so that's where the bang comes from. So you get splattered...

FISHERWow.

STEIN...with a little hot grease, and then you've still got mashed potatoes left so...

FISHERSounds pretty good to me.

STEIN…that works out okay for everyone.

FISHERAnd a question from Facebook. "I don't know if your guests can answer this, is it true that chicken tikka masala is a British creation?" Anybody know?

STEINThat one in particular, I'm not sure. I know the providence of a couple of other dishes that either we're serving or thought about serving, but that one in particular I'm not...

FISHEROkay.

STEIN…I'm not a hundred percent on.

BURGESSIt's actually hard to say, but there's a lot of case of where original Indian dishes and Indian cuisine has been brought around to the British taste. The British love for Indian food is well known and it's phenomenally high chicken tikka masala voted the most popular dish in the U.K. taking over from fish and chips...

FISHERReally?

BURGESS...a number of years ago. I would say for certain that the chicken tikka masala that's served in the U.K. is a different dish than you would get if it was under the same name in Mumbai or Pune or Delhi in India. And that's certainly from my experience of being in India.

FISHERWell...

BURGESSAnd we do a chicken masala pasty and we try to keep that as original to an Indian stroke English cuisine as possible. So not too much heat from the actual chili side of things, but a lot of from the rest of the flavors of the spices that form the accumulation of the masala sauce.

FISHERVery good. Elizabeth in Silver Spring, it's your turn.

ELIZABETHHi. I just wanted to promote what you can get at farmer's markets in terms of hard to find British ingredients. For example, right now, nettles and sorrel are available to make what my British stepfamily makes at this time of year that is spring tonic. You can find tomorrow, for example, at the Penn Quarter Market, Mountain Farm sells nettles. You can also find them at various other local farmers' markets. And also at Silver Spring, you can find Mini Rocks Farms and (word?) which had bangers made out of goat meat for -- and I don't know what (word?) sells.

FISHERWow. Okay, great. And Adam Stein, do you use much way in the traditional British produce?

STEINWell, being in the states, we don't have too much traditional British produce, but things like stinging nettles and the other varieties coming out in the springtime, we certainly have our fair share of -- certainly with, you know, sorrel and stinging nettles, they'll be in soon, I'm sure.

FISHEROkay. We have an e-mail from Jacqueline asking whether at The Queen Vic you serve a ploughman's lunch?

STEINWe do indeed have a ploughman's on our menu. It takes the slot of a small plate, or shareable plate. So we do the housemaid country pork pate, and we do a -- currently we do a nice (word?) cloth-bound cheddar with that, and we bake all of our bread in house. So those items are there as well as our house made mustard and pickles. So it's not quite as large of a meal as maybe some people are thinking of a traditional ploughman's, but I think it fits in quite nicely.

FISHERAnd you were born and raised in northern Virginia, went to Antioch College. I don't see a whole lot of British providence there, but somehow you fell in love with British cooking. How did that happen?

STEINWell, as I mentioned earlier, I think, you know, the spirit of British cuisine, especially as of late, is looking back to where things come from, and making sure that all of the ingredients that you're using have a place, and just that act of honest, handmade food which is being showcased all over the place in the U.K. with shows like Two Fat Ladies and Hairy Bikers, and just going to specific towns and finding local ingredients.

STEINAnd then again, making from start to finish much in the same way that Michael mentioned with Jamie Oliver going from, you know, garden to table. And I think those connections are very important, and that's sort of my background stateside, so that carries over very nicely into the sale of British cuisine that we're doing.

FISHERLet's go to James in Takoma Park, Md. James, you're on the air.

JAMESHey, how are you guys? Oh, God, that talk of pasties just makes me jump up and down. I grew up in -- our family home was Butte, Montana, which was filled with Cornish, Irish, Polish, every kind of coal mine -- or copper miner (word?) everybody ate pasties. My family made great pasties. How popular are they in your restaurant?

BURGESSWell, pasties at the moment are certainly growing in popularity in Vienna.

JAMESFantastic.

BURGESSCertainly we're seeing a lot of people, if your colleagues are Butte, Montana are coming into our shop.

FISHERReally?

BURGESSYeah. There's a lot of people from Butte. I see a lot of people from the U.P. in Michigan.

JAMESFantastic. Wow.

BURGESSAll of those people relating back to their history of having pasties, and as you say, all looking for that traditional recipe. So we try and stay and close to the traditional recipe as we possibly can, and that pleases those people, you know, using grass-fed, naturally-raised beef, the traditional seasoning of black and white pepper and salt, and then the meat -- sorry, the potatoes and onion. But then we also do a large amount of varieties of different ones as well, taking influence like I say from masala, for a chicken variety.

BURGESSAnd we also do some chicken Provencal to use French influence as well. So they've started to expand their tastes across a whole range of different contents that we can put into pasties. But there's a lot of pasty lovers out there at the moment, and they're finding the shop.

FISHERThat's great. Great. Well, thanks for the call, James. And let's go to Casey in Fort Belvoir.

CASEYHi there. I'm getting homesick for London here. It's fabulous. Anyways, my test to see if a British -- a supposed British restaurant is actually British is if they have Hines Malt Vinegar on the table or the chips.

FISHERUh-oh, moment of truth. Adam Stein?

STEINI actually have lots and lots of Hines malt vinegar on premise. So please feel free...

CASEYI mean, so many times I've gone into a place and asked for vinegar for my French fries and they end up giving me salad dressing.

STEINNo. No. No. To be fair, we actually have bottles of British malt vinegar for the front of the house. But as I say, I have lots and lots of the real thing on hand.

FISHERExcellent.

CASEYAnd how about a ploughman's lunch?

FISHERWe just answered that question.

STEINWe do serve one as well.

FISHERExcellent. And thanks, Casey. Let's go to Larry in Potomac, because we take all Marmite calls first here on this program. Larry, go ahead.

LARRYHi. Thanks for taking my call. I just wanted to make a comment on Vegemite. I remember when I first started dating my ex-wife, who is an Australian girl, she gave me some Vegemite on toast once, and I thought she'd actually fed me feces as a joke. And so -- but it was an acquired taste for me. Now I love it. Subsequently I've divorced her, but I've got a...

FISHERBecause of that?

LARRYI'm sorry?

FISHERWas the proximate cause of the divorce?

LARRYNo. No. Not over that. But subsequently I've got two children to another marriage, and one I raised on Vegemite, starting since he was about six weeks old. And the other I didn't. The one that I raised on Vegemite absolutely loved it.

FISHERWas this a scientific experiment? Was one of the children a control group here?

LARRYNo. I think it was more -- it was more of a function of just getting lazy with one.

FISHERI see.

LARRYBut -- because it took a, you know, it took a measure of process to get the first child to actually assimilate to Vegemite. You know, I had to put it into his baby food, and it wasn't an easy process.

FISHERWow.

LARRYSo I just didn't do it with the second one.

FISHEROkay. And any Vegemite experiences? You don't use that in cooking, do you?

STEINNo. We don't currently.

LARRYNo.

FISHEROkay.

LARRYI do use it -- I do make a beef jerky that I use Vegemite in the marinade for, and it's amazing. People who absolutely just are disguised -- or disgusted by Vegemite, really enjoy the jerky.

FISHEROkay. Well, there you have it. Let's go to one more Marmite call. Here's Rory in Warrenton.

RORYHello?

FISHERYes, go ahead.

RORYYes. I just wanted to give you an idea of what to do with Marmite, other than just putting it on toast. And I've converted by children to it. They're American born and they love it. And that is to take your Marmite, put it on some nice crispy hot toast, and put scrambled eggs on top with some freshly ground pepper on top of that. It's absolutely wonderful. And if I convert my American children to it, anybody could like it.

FISHERWow. Michael was nodding sagely at that concept.

BURGESSI've tried that before, that's really nice actually.

FISHERReally? Okay. Adam, you're not buying this, huh?

STEINWell, like I said, based on the previous caller's initial reaction to being served Vegemite, I'm not sure if that's the best thing for first-time customers of The Queen Vic, but we'll see.

FISHEROkay. Here is Dan in Brookland, with an answer to our chicken tikka masala question. Dan?

DANYeah. I just wanted to offer up that there was a really fantastic book that came out, Oxford University Press put out called "Curry: A Tale of Cooks and Conquerors," and the author Lizzie Collingham, writes that she actually chicken tikka masala to talk about how, you know, the relationship between India and Great Britain has just, you know, it's always been about sort of exchanging food and ingredients and different styles, and the chicken tikka masala in a way, even though many people consider it, you know, kind of this weird amalgam, actually sort of like perfectly epitomizes the fact that, you know, it's the meeting of these two cultures.

DANSo it's like -- and I think it sort of came in my head with Robin Cook the former foreign secretary sort of announced that it was now the official, you know, British dish. So I just wanted to offer that.

FISHEROkay. Appreciate that. Well, this Friday, about two billion people will be watching as Prince William marries Kate Middleton, and The Queen Vic, as I understand it, is offering specials that day; is that right?

STEINWe are. We're opening up at 12:00 p.m. in the afternoon and we'll be rebroadcasting the wedding all day long. We have lots of drink specials and food specials to go along as well as our full menu throughout the day.

FISHERAny special you'd like to tell us about?

STEINWell, I did a little bit of research on past royal weddings, and I found that always serve quail's eggs with celery salt, so we'll be doing a take on that. And another past hors d'oeuvres at a previous service was they did a (word?) lamb leg with mashed potato and cabbage. They did a sort of take on bubble and squeak. So we'll have that. We'll have a curry or two, and as I say, we'll have the eggs with celery salt, as well as three or so drink specials.

FISHERExcellent. And Michael Burgess, is there an appropriate pasty to have to celebrate the royal wedding?

BURGESSWell, alongside Adam's comments there about lamb, we rotate a special pasty through every week, and our range, and we're doing a lamb variety as well. So we're wrapping it up in a pastry case, and alongside that we've baked ourselves up a big multitier wedding cake, and we're giving away wedding cake during the day to the customers that come into the shop. And then we're raffling off one of our top tiers.

FISHERSounds great. That's Michael Burgess. He's the owner of the Pure Pasty Company in Vienna, Va., just off Church Street. And that's right next to Bikes of Vienna. Adam Stein has also been with us. He is the executive chef at The Queen Vic, 1206 H Street Northeast, just opened in early April. And we've been talking of course about British food. Thanks both of you for coming in.

FISHER"The Kojo Nnamdi Show" is produced by Brendan Sweeney, Michael Martinez, Ingalisa Schrobsdorff and Taylor Burnie, with assistance from A.C. Valdez, Kathy Goldgeier and Elizabeth Weinstein. The managing producer is Diane Vogel. Dorie Anisman is on the phone. I'm Marc Fisher sitting in for Kojo Nnamdi. Thanks very much for listening. See you next time.