MR. KOJO NNAMDIFrom WAMU 88.5 at American University in Washington, welcome to "The Kojo Nnamdi Show," connecting your neighborhood with the world. It's the Computer Guys & Gal, which you can tell from that steamy, slow jam music that we're playing there. Valentine's Day is approaching, and love is in the air.

MR. JOHN GILROY(unintelligible).

NNAMDIAnd the Computer Guys & Gal are here to say that Pope Benedict is smitten, or maybe more accurately, he's expressing tolerance for Facebook and other social networks. The courtship of Verizon and Apple so tortured and star crossed is about to be sealed with the iPhone. And finally, after all the snow and ice this winter, Allison Druin is showing the love for her power company. No, wait. That was someone else.

NNAMDIAllison was using a different four-letter word...

MS. ALLISON DRUINYes.

NNAMDI...not love -- after a few days...

GILROYWe heard it before the show.

NNAMDI...with no electricity.

NNAMDIBut this Tuesday, she's accentuating the positive with tips for staying online when the power goes offline. John Gilroy is loving the possibility of ordering his half-caf soy latte with extra foam through his smartphone.

NNAMDIAnd Bill Harlow's heart is racing for his new Vertex 2 Solid State Drive, a new toy that he insists will make him a more considerate lover.

DRUINNerd. Nerd. Nerd.

NNAMDIIt's the Computer Guys & Gal.

GILROYNerd alert, nerd alert. (makes noise)

MR. BILL HARLOWDoctor...

NNAMDIJohn Gilroy is director of business development at the Armature Corporation, where he occupies the armchair seat.

NNAMDIAllison Druin is director of the Human-Computer Interaction Lab and associate dean for research at the College of Information Studies at the University of Maryland.

GILROYBest title ever.

NNAMDIAnd Bill Harlow, a former Mac genius, is hardware and software technician for Macs & PCs at Mid-Atlantic Consulting, Incorporated. We take your calls at 800-433-8850, or you can go to our website, kojoshow.org. It's February, time for us to take a cue from Zapp and Roger and celebrate with some real slow jam music, "Computer Love."

GILROYOh-oh.

HARLOWNo.

DRUINOh, no.

ZAPP AND ROGERComputerized. Digital love. Computerized. Oh, baby.

NNAMDIAll across this hour, we'll be finding out what new gadgets and apps are winning the hearts of our Computer Guys & Gal, and we'll try to help you out with any computer conundrums that are getting your blood boiling. So you can start calling 800-433-8850. John Gilroy spends a lot of time reading the trade publications, scanning government computer news, Ars Technica, Wired online and, of course, anything that comes out of the Vatican...

NNAMDI...which is why he's extremely excited about a special message from Pope Benedict titled "Truth, Proclamation and Authenticity in the Digital Age." John?

GILROYI don't think it comes in the range of the Computer Guys & Gal talk about the pope. Let's just avoid some of the things -- I don't know -- I don't think he knows much about this technology at all, so you (word?) can avoid the pope unless you want to have any comments there.

HARLOWI just want to say that he's, you know, what he is saying is noble, you know, be authentic and true and don't rely on the Internet. But on the other hand, does he understand what, you know, Facebook is about? It's about looking better than you really are and about fibbing a bit, so.

NNAMDIHe's giving the pontiff his qualified blessing to social networking, seeing it as a great opportunity but warning that online friendships are no substitute for real human contact, John.

DRUINBut that's actually -- sorry -- I'm gonna jump in in front of John...

NNAMDIPlease do, Allison.

DRUIN...okay -- to say that actually that's very similar to what people are finding with distance education. That it's not just about being online only. It's about blended learning. It's about being online and also offline.

GILROYRight. It's not a replacement.

DRUINRight. Not that he should know about blended learning or...

DRUIN...distance education. But I found it an interesting equivalent.

HARLOWWell, I do know about a woman by the name of Sherry Turkle, and she's affiliated with MIT, the bastion of knowledge up in Boston.

DRUIN(cough)

HARLOWAnd she's written a book called "Alone Together," and she talks about that. She talks about -- maybe, she's going against the pope.

HARLOWWhat she's saying is, hey, maybe there are times when you could put down the smartphone and maybe have a face-to-face conversation with someone. What about a board of directors meeting? What about, you know, making serious decisions about the future of the university or the organization? And she has a book that's come out. Perhaps, she will be a guest on the show, but I see the push and pull. You know, I see people from MIT saying, hey, pull back. She's talking about people who get 1,500 e-mails a day.

GILROYRight, right. Slow down.

DRUINYeah.

HARLOWSlow down. Pull back.

GILROYBe thoughtful.

HARLOWAnd the pope is saying, well, maybe, I'll be a cool guy and, you know, mention this or something. But it's -- I guess, it's gotten to the point where people are actually are going full circle and saying, okay, I don't like being interrupted every 10 minutes by some stupid tweet -- not that they're stupid, but...

DRUINFad. Fad.

HARLOWThank you. By a fad.

DRUINYes. Actually, the -- what's interesting about Sherry Turkle, she was one of the first sociologist like 20, 25 years ago to actually write about the use of technology in kids and learning, and so it's quite amusing that she's come full circle to talk about unplugging herself.

NNAMDIThe Computer Guys & Gal, a font of knowledge. John, you were gonna say.

GILROYNo, she's just saying -- trying to be reasonable. She's not running from it. She's saying, look, let us be normal, you know?

DRUINYeah.

GILROYSo you don't crash, you know, the human beings in your cars and don't insult people by distracting.

NNAMDINevertheless, it's been a big month for social networking, papal blessing notwithstanding. Twitter and Facebook have been credited with fueling or at least enabling the protests in Egypt and Tunisia, Bill.

HARLOWYeah. It's actually pretty interesting. What I find pretty powerful is the fact that in Egypt, of course, they had to, you know, shut down, you know, a lot of MMS and Internet services. And, you know, it just shows the power of being that connected and being able to spread a message that quickly. And it's also kind of scary 'cause just thinking about how cut off I feel when I lose power after a storm for a few days, you know, I can only imagine what it's like when you got a formal lockdown going on.

DRUINWell...

NNAMDIYeah. But there are activists here who are trying to help out in that situation, Allison.

DRUINYeah. I couldn't believe it. Google is actually working with Twitter, which is pretty impressive. And so now, you can speak to tweet in Egypt, and, in fact, what you can do is leave a voicemail message on a phone number and the service will automatically put a hashtag Egypt and then put your tweet there, and it's amazing. And you can actually -- if you can't see Twitter, you can also go to that same phone number and you can hear the tweets having to do with hashtag Egypt. So it's wonderful to see what people are doing.

GILROYThat's the same technology many areas in Africa are using a whole speech...

DRUINExactly. Exactly. A combination.

NNAMDIAnd even though there's one computer guy who once said that it was nothing more than a fad, he shall remain...

NNAMDI...nameless.

DRUINWho could that be?

NNAMDIJohn Gilroy, the statistics...

NNAMDIThe statistics seem to show that Twitter is becoming firmly enmeshed in our pop culture, John.

GILROYWhere did it come from? It's like a quarterback. It's blindsided -- bang. Twitter just come out of nowhere. What's the number now? It's 200 million folks there. One hundred million tweets per day. I mean, it's really shocking, and I think what happens is after, you know, January, February, timeframe people look at the past year and look at all the surges and talk about trends, and this is the big shocking trend, you know, the number of people using Twitter. Also, if you look at some trends...

NNAMDIIt all used to be 99,999,999...

GILROYNinety-nine.

NNAMDI...before you came up with your own tweet (word?).

GILROYThat's right. Eight hundred million people Internet users in Asia, 266 million in North America. What a figure. I mean, I'm just stunned at all this. You know, 70 percent of the Facebook folks are outside the United States. I mean, these numbers are shocking. I think Twitter is probably the most shocking of all.

NNAMDIWell, some people would say those numbers are encouraging...

NNAMDI...as opposed to shocking.

DRUINExpected, John. Expected.

NNAMDIBill, every Valentine's Day, Allison gets into the spirit of the season, offers us a slew of thoughtful gift ideas for that special someone.

HARLOWFor herself.

HARLOWAllison Druin.

NNAMDIThe digital equivalent of a bouquet of flowers and chocolates. Some other computer guys who shall remain nameless...

DRUINBill.

NNAMDIBill Harlow...

HARLOWWhat?

NNAMDI...have been known to make snarky comments about these presents.

HARLOWSnarky.

NNAMDIBut this February, you're getting into the spirit. Tell us about your perfect...

HARLOWOh, yeah. This is a great one.

NNAMDI...Valentine's Day gift, Bill Harlow.

GILROYYeah. Listen to this.

HARLOWWhat's the most romantic thing you can give to your loved one, right? It's more time, more of your time.

NNAMDIOh, yes.

HARLOWSo I put a solid state hard drive in my desktop at home.

GILROYSelfless. Selfless.

HARLOWSelfless.

GILROYHe really is.

HARLOW(unintelligible).

DRUINSo romantic.

HARLOWI did it for my wife...

NNAMDIYeah, right.

HARLOW...because this thing, it's an OCZ Vertex 2. It is blazing fast. It's -- on a mono computer, it's amazing how much your hard drive can hold things back, performance wise. And it's probably the most romantic thing I've done to one of my computers in ages.

GILROYShe had to decide between a day in a day spa for your wife or a hard drive. You go with the hard drive.

NNAMDIHow difficult is the process of installing it?

HARLOWWell, it depends on the computer. I mean, I have a Mac Mini, which requires a putty knife to crack open, but if you've got, you know, a conventional desktop or one of the newer Apple laptops, it's a lot easier. But it's something to consider. I consider this the -- potentially the year of the solid state drive because we're hitting a point where they're not cheap, but they're in the realm of affordability. And they're getting to sizes that are practical for a lot of people, so...

GILROYApple innovation has crossed over the Windows world and data centers all over town. It's really popular.

NNAMDIAnd in case you don't understand Bill's romantic logic, see, spending less time waiting for your hard drive...

HARLOWExactly.

NNAMDI...means that you can spend more time with your significant other.

DRUINNerd. Nerd. Nerd.

NNAMDISo this is not really a selfish...

HARLOWNo.

NNAMDIIt's not really a selfish gift at all.

HARLOWThis is like I'm gonna get a brand new Mercedes Benz so I can home faster.

GILROYExactly. Exactly.

NNAMDIExactly, what is a solid state drive? Why is it different?

HARLOWWell, a conventional hard drive has a spinning platter, and, you know, it's --you know, it's almost -- think of, you know, really crudely, think of like a CD or a record, and the head has to seat. It can go over the platter. And it just -- it takes time. A solid state drive is literally just a chip, and there's no latency. There's no waiting for it to find data. It's just there. So especially when it's jumping around and finding random data or writing random data all over the hard drive, it's lighting quick compared to conventional drives. And to give an example, I fire up my computer. It boots up in a third of the time. I log in, and all my apps open in about five seconds. It's really, really cool.

NNAMDIAnd that means more time...

HARLOWOf course, more time for the wife.

GILROYThat's the objective here.

NNAMDIAllison...

DRUINVery romantic.

NNAMDI...says romance like scented candles. Nothing says...

NNAMDINothing says geek like a USB connection, so perhaps, it makes sense that one of your recommended Valentine's gifts...

GILROYDo I hear gift (word?) ?

NNAMDI...is a USB-powered aroma therapy oil burner or something like that.

GILROYThat's really full of nerds.

DRUINIt's called Scent 2.0. I thought it was quite amusing, and a...

NNAMDIHow does this work?

DRUIN...and a deal. Okay, so basically, you have this little USB key, and they give you a little oil with it. And you just put this like one drop of oil in this little X and then stick this thing into your USB drive. And basically, it warms up the little key, and that's it. There's no software, no messy software.

HARLOWScratch and sniff USB. Yeah.

DRUINYeah. It's totally awesome. Six bucks. It's awesome.

HARLOWWhen people complain about the iPad lacking a USB port, this is exactly what they're talking about.

GILROYThese are the sort of things that they are cut off from.

HARLOWDon't use it for.

GILROYExactly. The practical things.

DRUINI'm loving it. Come on.

NNAMDII won't have the opportunity, but then, there is the Etch-a-Sketch iPhone case.

DRUINOh, just in case, you don't have enough toys for your iPhone, yes, and the cases are so dull and boring these days, yes, you can get a case that looks -- makes it look just like the Etch-a-Sketch toy. It's only 25 bucks, John.

GILROYDo the knobs work?

DRUINWhat do you think? You want to buy it?

NNAMDIJohn -- wake up, John.

GILROYI left my Etch-a-Sketch at Ohio Arts...

GILROY...from 1952, by the way.

DRUINYeah.

NNAMDIOkay. How about the retro instant photo frames?

DRUINOkay. So everyone was all upset when we lost those instant Polaroid camera pictures, right? So what do you want to do?

NNAMDIYes.

DRUINYou wanna get frames that make your photos look like those Polaroids, and, yeah.

GILROYDo you need to shake it too...

DRUINAgain...

GILROY...too like I can get it to drive really fast.

DRUIN...six bucks. I mean, what could you want? Anyway, yes, I'm materialistic, Bill. Thank you.

HARLOWNot as thoughtful as I am.

NNAMDIIt is...

GILROYIt is a very, very thoughtful.

NNAMDII think it's about time to go to the telephones.

GILROYPlease do go now.

NNAMDI(unintelligible) who has a real issue to discuss. Here is Ed in Gaithersburg, Md. Ed, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

EDOh, thank you for taking the call.

NNAMDIThank you, Ed.

EDI have an iMac, and I use Microsoft Office for the Mac for work that I bring home from work. And I've been -- suddenly, I'm unable to open Excel files that I have been able to open before. These are Excel files that were created with -- on a Windows computer at my -- at our office, generally, running an older version of Microsoft Office 2000 something -- early Office, not the most recent version. And I've been able to open the files routinely and take them and work on them and take them back to work, and they go back and forth with no problem. And now, all of a sudden, when I double-click on the file to open it, there's a small window that seems to flash very quickly right in the middle of the screen as if it's opening and instantly closing.

HARLOWHmm, interesting. It sounds to me like not much has changed as far as the creation of these files, so it may just be the installation of Office on your Mac. There are a lot of temporary files created when you log in and use this program, login as yourself. So a quick thing to do is go into system preferences in accounts, make a new user and just login under that new MT user, see if the file opens there. Then it tells you something small, possibly corrupted with some of the support or temporary files in your login. If you have another Mac, you can access just quickly just to try the files. I do that, too, just to make sure that it's not something simple like needing to wipe some temporary files or possibly reinstall Office in your computer.

EDI see. Now, I don't have another Mac but -- so I just want to make sure I understand. You said create a new user. Where, in the operating system or...

HARLOWYes.

ED...in Excel?

HARLOWIn the operating system. So, you know, just make another user called test, and login under that user. And try opening the file there.

NNAMDIAnd good luck to you, Ed. We -- no. We won't go to the telephones because we have to take short break. And when we come back from that break, tips from Allison Druin about what to do when your power goes out.

NNAMDIShe is now an expert. You can call us at 800-433-8850 or send us a tweet, @kojoshow. It's the Computer Guys & Gal. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.

NNAMDIWe're talking with the Computer Guys & Gal. John Gilroy is director of business development at the Armature Corporation. Bill Harlow is a former Mac Genius and hardware and software technician for MACs and PCs at Mid-Atlantic Consulting, Inc. And Allison Druin is director of the Human-Computer Interaction Lab and associate dean for research at the College of Information Studies at the University of Maryland. It's been a winter of bad weather and power outages. I lost my power. Allison, you lost your power, which got you to thinking about technology. Maybe not technology that can miraculously fix all those down power lines, but technology that can keep you plugged in to cyberspace. One key strategy for staying online, set out to a wireless hotspot.

DRUIN(laugh) Oh, yes. So, I actually -- I thought, okay. How do I find out the places that have free Wi-Fi? Okay. Now, if I were online, I could find it, couldn't I? (laugh)

NNAMDIYes. (laugh)

DRUINBut I couldn't. So anyway, I managed to make a of lot good friends in a lot of different cafes and local grocery stores, restaurants. And so, actually, I found it very sort of amusing that when I finally got to my free Wi-Fi spot that I could find the list of places that I could go to. So -- and actually, I'm sure they'll put those online, but they're -- they range from restaurants, hotels, coffee shops, businesses and -- so definitely, go and make friends, but don't be afraid to sit on the floor next to your power outlet.

HARLOWAnd bring a little circuit protector because, chances are, all those outlets are taken and, that way, you can just hop right in and share power with other people.

DRUINOh, yeah.

HARLOWAnd be the good guy.

DRUINYeah.

NNAMDI800-433-8850. Another strategy is to try and extend your laptop and smartphone batteries as long as possible, which may mean shutting down unnecessary programs and steering clear of Web video and games. We got this tip from Buck in D.C. "I have TV software, WinTV, on my laptop that allows me to watch TV during a power outage. To stretch the battery, I turn down the screen brightness and occasionally turn off the Wi-Fi and power. I also have a cig lighter plug-in AC converter outlet for an in-car power supply." Any advice on how to save those batteries during the time of a power outage?

DRUINActually, there's something that I didn't realize because, yes, I was sitting there trying to figure out that as well, was that as soon as your battery is fully charged, unplug. Okay? In fact, that actually will damage your battery at some point, and make -- and bring the battery life down to be…

NNAMDIIf you keep it plugged in after it's fully charged?

DRUINAbsolutely. And I...

NNAMDIGlad for that tip.

DRUIN…didn't even know that which...

GILROYIt depends on the model. There's a lot of different models out there.

HARLOWYeah. But if...

GILROYFor example, Sony VAIO doesn't do that but some (unintelligible)

HARLOWBut if -- yeah.

DRUINYeah.

HARLOWIf you leave your computer plugged in all the time….

DRUINAll the time.

HARLOW...and the battery doesn't get used in different ways, it eventually uses -- lose its ability to hold a charge.

DRUINYup, yup. Exactly. So -- yeah. So that's another thing that you can do.

NNAMDIIf you have a mobile device that can connect to the Internet, you may be able to do something called tethering, where you basically connect your computer to your cell phone and access the Web that way. How do you do that?

DRUINWell, there's a little teeny problem with that. You do have to actually pay $20 a month extra to have this option.

NNAMDIOh. So you have to talk to your cell phone provider.

DRUINYes, you do have to talk to your cell phone provider. And you also -- if you're like me, I have your all-you-can-eat unlimited data plan, you actually have to give that up for tethering, which stopped us from doing that.

HARLOWSame here.

DRUINWe were pretty close to doing it. We were this close. We were desperate, I'm telling you. But you can do that both with iPhones, BlackBerries, some Androids, Palms. So if you're desperate, yes, you can do that. You have to -- you have to pay an extra fee and then change your data plan. And then it's just a matter of just opening up settings and changing your settings and, yup, sure enough.

NNAMDIBill has an alternative. He has something called MiFi.

HARLOWYes. So these products have been out for a little while. They're, you know, about the size of maybe a small deck of cards and they have a battery. And they basically take a cellular connection and they act like a little Wi-Fi hotspot for up to five devices. So the one I like and David Pogue wrote about this last year and that's what got my attention. It's from Virgin. And Virgin Mobile's MiFi, you just buy it outright. It's about 150. Sometimes it goes on sale, and then you'd pay as you need it. So, for example, when I lost -- when my FiOS router died and then we lost power, I was able to just sign in. I didn't even to have to use -- get online, a conventional way to sign in. You'd go right to the device. I bought one month of unlimited Internet and that was that. And then when the month is over, I don't have to pay anything. There's no contracts.

GILROYIt's very convenient. It's a real good idea.

HARLOWYeah.

DRUINYeah.

HARLOWIt's great for occasional use.

DRUINNow and that was like $40 for the month. Is that it?

HARLOWAbout 40 bucks for unlimited. And the nice thing about it, too, is it's got its own battery.

DRUINRight. Right.

HARLOWYou can plug in to USB to charge it. And, you know, it's great too because the thing about tethering is you're, you know, running down your phone. And frankly, I want my phone to be there so I can make a call. Having a separate device just for Internet is really handy.

DRUINI agree.

NNAMDII'm beginning to pick up something from this conversation here, John Gilroy.

GILROYWe're Internet addicts.

NNAMDIYou didn't lose power, did you?

GILROYNothing happened to me. I -- and, in fact, I had an increased number of work hours that week. It was great. I loved it. I can do it every week. I just...

DRUINCan I strangle him now?

NNAMDIAfter I put him out of the room, you can strangle.

DRUINOh, my goodness.

NNAMDII just knew there was something about him I didn't like today.

GILROYMore than just that.

NNAMDIHere is Stan in Alexandria, Va., with more tips. Stan, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

STANHi, Conan. (sic) I enjoyed the show. Thanks for taking the call. I just wanted to share this product I found. I don't know if you don't want brand names or anything. But...

NNAMDIOh, you can mention brand names.

STANOkay. Well, it's this radio by the Eton Company. You can find it on Amazon for, like, 45 bucks. It's a crank radio and solar, has a flashlight and a USB charger where -- so you can charge your phone.

DRUINOh, right. I forgot about that.

HARLOWYeah. Yeah. That's a good (unintelligible)

DRUINOh, man. I'm going out to buy one.

STANYeah. And you can get them for, like, 45 bucks in Amazon. They're great. So thanks for taking my call and have a great day.

NNAMDIAnd thanks for that tip, Stan. You too can call us.

GILROYIt's a good idea.

NNAMDI800-433-8850. You might have tips or you might have questions, 800-433-8850. If your mobile phone has GPS, you can download an interesting app called Storm Spotter or iMapWeather. Please explain, Allison.

DRUINYeah. Actually, some of -- you know, the various different smartphones -- iPhone has Storm Spotter. Android has iMapWeather and storm weather widget. Basically, a little bit more detailed weather information than you normally get from the -- just the given -- the phone app you got when you start up. Storm Spotter is pretty good because it gives you a list of the storm warnings. It's actually -- uses your own GPS to figure out where the storms are close to you. And if you've become weather obsessed like I have, I'm totally into it.

NNAMDILike we all have.

DRUINYeah.

GILROYYou got to be careful about some of these apps as everyone who's listened to the show two weeks ago, which was a seminal show, I thought. It was a wonderful show. Surprised Kojo pull -- it's a great show, talked all about this...

DRUINA surprise. (laugh)

GILROYTalked about apps and mobile -- I thought was just great. It's well-known in the techno-comedian town here. People listened to that show and they're talking about it. People are listening even this week because it was a great a show. It's wonderful and talked about which apps to download, which ones not to and...

NNAMDIYup.

GILROY...it just opened a whole world of things that you never -- I didn't believe.

NNAMDIYup. Yup. And you can find it in our archives at our website, kojoshow.org.

GILROYIt's a great show.

NNAMDIJohn Gilroy, it was only a matter of time, I suppose, for people that love coffee but hate the hassle of ordering a grande half-caf non-fat (laugh) latte in person. Soon, Starbucks will allow you to order your drink by mobile device.

GILROYI think this might be the next transition. You know, forget about the dollar bills, forget about your credit card. Just take and set up an account with Starbucks and you go in and you wave it and it deducts from your account. So you don't have to say a word to the barista and if their good baristas they'll know exactly what you have to have. So maybe for someone who is anti-social like me...

NNAMDIYes.

GILROY...maybe that's the way to do it.

HARLOWOr you could make your own coffee and just, you know, cut out any social interactions at all.

GILROYExactly.

HARLOWTuck yourself in and make some coffee.

NNAMDINo, no. That's taking it too far.

GILROYBut the crazy people intentionally go out their way to snub -- that's just if you're really crazy.

NNAMDIBill, apparently, Starbucks and Apple are rumored to be teaming up for a new payment system.

HARLOWWell, I don't know if it's with Starbucks directly, but there are rumors that Apple -- they're hiring some engineers to what people think is worked on near field communications. So the idea is you've got this chip in your phone and, you know, you go near a cashier and rather than you swipe the card, you know, just like what John said, you wave this phone and it deducts from your account. So I don't know if this is gonna be some way to only benefit Apple or if they're gonna -- try to look at some sort of universal payments. You can use it tied to your credit card. We'll see. But that's a rumor going around based on some job hiring ads we have out there.

NNAMDIAnd speaking of apps that you should or should not get, Allison, some of us love our phones, some of us hate them and some of us really love our phones. If you've fallen to the last category, you have a recommended app that lets you get up close and personal -- a kiss testing app.

GILROYValentine's Day. I get it.

NNAMDIHow does that work?

GILROYI get it. Okay. Okay.

DRUINYes. It's very impressive. It's called kissing test. And, apparently, if you kiss your iPhone...

NNAMDIYuck.

DRUINYou better -- be sure to wipe it off first before you do this. Then it will actually tell you if you're a pro, a novice, if you're too slobbery, whatever it is. And...

GILROYToo slobbery. There's a technical term from University of Maryland.

HARLOWHere's what I predict, first of all, one, you know, that the phone is one of the dirtiest things you could possibly...

GILROYIt sure is.

DRUINThat's why I said clean it before you do this.

HARLOWAnd, secondly, modern phones, they've got these moisture detectors built into it. They can see if you void the warranty. I predict people who download this app will have a sharp increase in out of warranty repairs.

NNAMDICan it detect whisky on your breath?

GILROYWell, that would be a good one. (word?) to be contest getting most.

NNAMDIOn to Chris in Front Royal, Va. Chris, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

CHRISHi, Kojo. First-time caller, longtime listener.

NNAMDIThank you.

CHRISOne of your guest recent -- just said something about Virgin MiFi. And I bought it in December and loved it. And then got a letter from Virgin in January, changing the contract. They now are choking the bandwidth after you use 5 GB in a month. And I know there are a lot of unhappy users, including myself, out there. And I wonder what (unintelligible).

HARLOWYeah. I got that too, actually. And it's funny because, I mean, you had it since December. I think I got mine, like, right in the beginning of January. And, like, a week later, I got that e-mail. And, yeah, so basically, if you -- even with the unlimited, it's -- now, if you download five gigs worth of data, you know, it still connects, but at a much slower speed. I'm just about up for my month -- I think about two gigs, so I'm still under the cap. So I guess that's the danger of something without a contract is they can change the terms on you as well. And, actually, since the Virgin Mobile came out, I think, originally, they didn't even offer unlimited. So it's already changed a few times. It went from, I think, like, a two-gig plan to, now, unlimited. Now, we've got the speed throttled unlimited if you go past a certain amount of usage. So it may change in the future too, unfortunately.

NNAMDIChris, thank you for your call. You, too, can call us at 800-433-8850. We got this e-mail from Sonia in Miami Beach, Fla. "What types of antivirus and antispyware apps are out there for smartphones?" John?

GILROYWell, this is really just a brand-new field, you know? It's actually kind of difficult to have a phone transmit a virus to another phone now. Well, if computers, that can be done fairly easily. In fact, from a computer to a phone, it's easier, but going back and forth from phones is kind of tough. There's been a couple of companies that have started programs. AVG, the popular one for desktop computers, they have little app, one's free and one's a pay plan. Trend Micro, kind of a large company that's in a lot of industry and large organizations, they have a plan that's out there. There's another one called Lookout Mobile Security.

GILROYAnd I just -- I have to wonder maybe I'll go re-listen to that show from two weeks ago and find out the validity of some of these antivirus claims. I mean, if your phone has a lockdown number on it and someone owns them, I mean, they can't really prevent a whole lot of bad things happening. But now that the smartphones have operating systems on it, I guess the fact that it's an operating system by humans meaning other humans can attack it.

HARLOWMm-hmm.

GILROY.So I would be very wary of some of these right now. I'd probably -- if I work for a big company, I'd go the system administrator and say, hey, Ralph, what do you think? Is this worth it -- or he may already have it. So I would be -- one interesting feature of one of these got a remote kill. So if something happens, you can kill your phone.

HARLOWThat's right. There are some apps with the Android. And, of course, if you have the MobileMe account on your iPhone or you have a device connected to an exchange server, a lot of times you can do it remote like that way.

GILROYBut this is just like 20, 25 years ago when the antivirus first came up. They really don't know. They're kind of, you know, in the dark here. But they're out there. I don't know how valid they are, but they're there.

NNAMDIWell, a lot of people are marking their calendars, Allison, Bill, for the big wedding day, Feb. 10, when the iPhone and Verizon will join together. This was a long and tortured courtship, stretched across years and hundreds, maybe thousands of rumors. But now that the day is here, people are asking some tough questions. Will Verizon be able to support all those data hogging devices, Bill?

HARLOWMy guess is yes. I mean, we won't know until it comes out. I imagine that the iPhone will be immensely popular on Verizon. But the nice thing is without having the iPhone first, they had a much slower ramp up than AT&T had. AT&T got hammered almost, you know, overnight. And with Verizon, you know, they didn't have an iPhone, so they had other devices. You know, they had Androids. And they got popular, but it was a slower process. I think they've been able to monitor capacity and plan carefully. And they have a reputation for planning and handling capacity. So, you know, we'll see. I'm not ready to jump ship. I've been happy enough with AT&T. And I'm also hoping other people jump ship. I don't have to, because then maybe they'll be more capacity for me. And I'm lazy and I don't feel like changing my tracks.

GILROYAnd what the pricing gonna be, we don't know. We think that maybe a little bit more than AT&T -- and speed issues here. And every summer, there's a new iPhone that comes out. So...

HARLOWRight.

GILROY...strategically, you have to start and scratch, you know, do I wanna wait until summer and move up or do I wanna get it now? And there's some questions about the network. There are some pundits out there that say, oh, no problem at all. How are you gonna know until you test it, you know?

HARLOWExactly.

GILROYIt's like load bearing test. You have to test the system before you can make rash statements.

NNAMDIThis brings me to this question, Allison, is the iPhone really worth all the hype after all? A lot of people are saying the EVO 4G, the Nexus, are actually better devices.

DRUINWell, it's interesting. Again, it goes back to what are you using your phone for.

HARLOWRight.

DRUINAnd, you know, and how sensitive are you to touch screens and how big are your fingers. And, I mean, you know, in terms of interface, still the iPhone is the best deal because of how elegant the interface is and how quickly...

HARLOWRight.

DRUIN...it works and so on.

HARLOWAnd again, the user interface is a feature. A lot of people just think, well, you know...

DRUINYeah.

HARLOW...the 4G has -- EVO 4G has 4G, the iPhone doesn't. That's true. But the iPhone has the iPhone interface so -- and has the apps too so...

NNAMDIAnd while we're at it, what is 4G anyway?

DRUINWell, right. Is there really a 4G is what I wonder about.

HARLOWExactly. Yeah. This is interesting. So, it's funny you mentioned that because 4G is the next thing. And that's what Verizon's calling LTE, Long Term Evolution. But this generation of LTE, technically, is not 4G. It's -- the other thing that's interesting is AT&T has their HSPA+, which is basically the current 3G technology but hot-rodded. And they're calling it 4G.

NNAMDIWhich is what I now have.

HARLOWExactly. They're calling that 4G, but it's not. It is an efficiently faster way of connecting. So, you know, now, it's gotten to the point where, you know, they're allowed to call it 4G even though it's not technically 4G, because I think the technical specification calls for about 100 Mbit down or something pretty high.

DRUINThat's right. That's right. And still, people are still not getting that 100 Mbit.

HARLOWRight. But EVO 4G, that's using WiMAX...

DRUINRight.

HARLOW...which isn't technically 4G. The next version of WiMAX technically is. But now, we're calling it that, so that's gonna be the accepted term, I think.

GILROYYou know, 10 years -- when wireless was just being developed 10 years ago, they had this same exact battle.

HARLOWRight.

GILROY.I remember exactly. And all of a sudden a group called the Wi-Fi Alliance come up and said, okay, we're gonna put our (word?) on this system. And it's gonna be the Allison Druin system. And it's gonna be whatever, like, you know, (unintelligible) whatever it happened to be. And I think that's gonna have to happen now because, I mean, if you wanna start and ask someone, you're gonna get four different answers...

HARLOWRight.

GILROY...from four different people and walk out, scratching your head and not get anything. So they have to come up with...

HARLOWSo I guess 4G is right now, technically -- well, it's faster than 3G...

GILROYThat's all we know, for sure. Yeah.

HARLOW...so we're calling it 4G. Exactly. (laugh)

NNAMDIHere is Tom in Manassas, Va. Hi, Tom.

TOMHow are you doing?

NNAMDII'm well.

TOMI thought your guests would like to hear some experiences using an HD PVR on my computer?

NNAMDIYes.

TOMNow, I bought a thing called the Hauppauge HD PVR. And what it does is it allows me to connect it to my satellite box or my PVR from my satellite company...

HARLOWMm-hmm.

TOM...and then record in high-definition video onto either my hard drive or eventually onto a DVD disc in high definition, so I can get in high def a two-hour movie on a regular DVD or a longer movie on a double-layer DVD.

HARLOWMm-hmm.

TOMAnd it plays back on computers and many Blu-ray players. So you can...

HARLOWNow, this -- was it Hauppage device?

TOMYes.

HARLOWAre you connecting over HDMI or component?

TOMComponent.

HARLOWYeah.

TOMIt has to come out of your satellite box with the red, blue, green...

HARLOWRight. Right.

TOM...cables. And it does a perfect picture. I mean, it's a full 19, whatever, by -- I mean...

HARLOWYeah. I mean, basically it's essentially a video digitizer is what it's doing. So, you know, you're not limited to, let's say, that cable or satellite DVR. You can use other devices over component as well. But, you know, that's probably the only way to do it, unfortunately. I mean, what you're doing is key.

DRUINYeah. Yeah.

HARLOW.A lot of these devices you get from, you know, either the cable companies or satellite companies are really locked down tight. And I know with Blu-ray players, there is the so-called -- what, was it digital sunset...

DRUINYeah.

HARLOW...which to me sounds like a great album title.

HARLOWBut where they're going to be eventually cutting out the ability to play high def over components, it's gonna be HDMI only, which, you know, is DRM essentially, so that you need an approved device. So it could be, you know, that the days of recording high def from your TV to computer easily are gonna be gone, unfortunately.

NNAMDIWe're gonna take a short break. When we come back, more of the computer guys and gal and your calls at 800-433-8850. You can send e-mail to kojo@wamu.org, a tweet, @kojoshow, or just go to our website, kojoshow.org. Ask a question or make a comment there. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.

NNAMDIThe computer guys and gal. Allison Druin is director of the Human-Computer Interaction Lab and associate dean for research at the College of Information Studies at the University of Maryland. John Gilroy is director of Business Development at the Armature Corporation, and Bill Harlow is a former math genius and a hardware and software technician for Macs and PCs at Mid-Atlantic Consulting Incorporated. Listening to all the weather forecast, some local governments have set up cool maps of which roads have been plowed and which ones haven't. All you read -- really need, I guess, is a GPS device on your snowplows. D.C., Montgomery County, Howard County have all created or created real-time or close to real-time snow maps. So that's one of the things you may want to be using. Got an e-mail from Elaine who says, "I'm a Northern Virginia resident listening to your show in Haiti right now."

GILROYHuh. Isn't that something?

NNAMDI"There's actually a USAID project that will enable cell phone users to get paid through their cell phones and use them the same way as a credit card. This is also widely used in Europe. It would be interesting to see if this can pick up in the U.S." We did a Tech Tuesday on using money in this way in Haiti when we were in Haiti. But it's picking up all over the world then.

GILROYOh, right. We talk about Africa. I mean, it just seems to be the wave of the future, and it's really exciting. I can't wait till we have callers complaining.

GILROYThey will.

NNAMDIWell, sure Twitter, Facebook and Foursquare let us post real-time information about what we're thinking and where we are, but, John Gilroy, apparently we should be careful about what we post. Tell us about the website...

GILROYI love this website, you know? This is a public service to WAMU listeners. Every listener should fire up the little machine and go to robmenow.com.

NNAMDIThanks a lot.

DRUINSounds great.

GILROYAnd what it shows, it shows people, let's say, who are not very technical savvy, let's say like Bill, and they tweet this -- hi, I'm in Paris for a week, I'm not near my house. Well, by the way, a spare key is under the mat. I mean, you'd be surprised that -- you're gonna be surprised at the information people give on their Twitter updates and it's just a reinforcement about it's okay to tweet, but I think you have to be careful especially if you have, you know, if you own a residence and people know you're out of town, like Kojo Nnamdi is in Hawaii for a few weeks.

HARLOWAnd keep it to people you know.

GILROYYeah. I mean, it's a very -- so it's a -- this is the fun side. I think it just reinforces some of the things we talk about here more formally about being careful with technology because it can come back and just drill you.

NNAMDIThe digital equivalent of "Steal This Book." Geolocation data, however, is clearly a two-edged sword, Bill.

HARLOWYeah. Just like what John discussed. I mean, not only, you know, is it a great way to advertise that you're away, but there are even some reports of people using this as a way to case your house. And one of the things that was a pretty amazing story was someone who, I think right around here, had his house broken in to. And he wrote about it because the thief...

NNAMDIMarc Fisher. Marc Fisher...

HARLOWMarc Fisher. Exactly

NNAMDI...of The Washington Post.

HARLOWYeah. He -- thank you.

DRUINThat's right.

HARLOWHe had a lot of stuff stolen, including his son's laptop. And the thief took the time to update his son's Facebook post with a photo of himself with a big thumbs up, showing off the jacket he stole as well.

NNAMDIAnd the money in his hand as well.

HARLOWAnd the money in his hands.

DRUINWow.

GILROYWow.

NNAMDIAnd it is my understanding that they still haven't caught...

DRUINOh.

NNAMDI...that thief, this...

HARLOWWell, they've got a great picture of the perp. (laugh)

NNAMDIBut I saw something on TBD.com yesterday in which they were showing you where a woman calling somebody on the cell phone and within a matter of seconds, the person at the other end of the line could identify her location.

HARLOWI didn't hear about that. But that's amazing.

NNAMDIYeah.

DRUINMm. Yeah.

HARLOWI mean, there are tools out there that allow you to do this, and there is even a demonstration at one of the security conferences of how you can use these tools to not only, you know, locate a phone, but even listen in.

NNAMDIHere is Roseck (sp?) in Washington D.C. Roseck, you're in the air. Go ahead please.

ROSECKWhat's up, Mr. Nnamdi?

NNAMDIMr. Roseck.

ROSECKSplendid show indeed.

NNAMDIThank you.

ROSECKHello?

NNAMDIYes. You're on the air, Mr. Roseck. Go ahead.

ROSECKYeah, good show indeed. I'm a first time caller, but a long time listener.

NNAMDIThank you.

ROSECKI'm interested in buying a PC tablet, but my concern is this. I looked at one the other day, Samsung Galaxy. But I observed that it didn't have integrated phone system into that. Whereas in Europe, a friend of mine said I could get one with integrated phone system, in other words, you can use as a telephone.

NNAMDIHere is Bill Harlow.

GILROYI know -- why would you wanna use it as a phone? I mean, that's the first question.

ROSECKYes.

GILROYBut maybe Bill can give you a...

HARLOWYeah. I'm not sure if we're talking about phone so much as a cellular data?

GILROYNo, that might be close. Is that what you're talking about then, Roseck?

ROSECKYes.

HARLOWRight. And, you know, I cannot keep up with all these PCs because, you know, all these manufacturers have about 20 different models they sell. But I'm sure that you'll be able to find one even in the U.S. that has a combination of a tablet screen. And if you're talking about like a PC tablet running Windows, I think you'd be pretty likely to find one, at least one out there that has 3G or 4G of some kind, so that you can use it on a cellular data network. It's just a matter of hunting down which one it is. Unfortunately, I can't give you a name and they change all the time.

GILROYCES have dozens.

HARLOWYeah. Exactly.

GILROYToo many out there. I can't...

NNAMDIRoseck, good luck to you. We got this e-mail from Susan in Bowie, Md. "Is this PDA dead? I don't want to have everything in one device such as a phone because I'm paranoid about losing it, and I like being able to back up my PDA on my computer, but it's getting harder and harder to find PDAs. And the one I have now, an old Palm, is on its last legs. Is anyone making PDAs anymore?" First to you, Bill, then Allison.

HARLOWClosest I can think of that I'd recommend would just be something like an iPod Touch.

DRUINYeah.

HARLOWI mean, obviously it's a music player. It can play videos and has a little camera, but you can just use it as a PDA if you want. It's got a calendar app built in. It's got a contact book and you can sync it up with your Mac or PC, and it backs up everything to iTunes. And what's cool, too, is if you branch out beyond that, you wanna back up to the Cloud, back up your data to the Internet, you can use something like MobileMe or use a Gmail account, which is free, and have your data synched to a -- to the Web so you can access it there as well. It also can grow with you if you wanna try other apps, like other to-do lists, other calendars, other contact lists as well, so...

NNAMDII don't know about you, but I had a formal ceremony burying my PDA. (laugh)

DRUINI know.

HARLOWMine was less formal.

DRUINIt -- it's so sad. No. I mean, with this -- we all got very attached to our PDAs, you know.

HARLOWWe did?

DRUINYeah.

HARLOWYou did?

DRUINWell, all right. Okay, so you have no morals. Anyway...

NNAMDIOr memory, for that matter.

GILROYThere we go.

HARLOWI had a Handspring Visor. It was cool for a week, and then I stopped using it.

DRUINOh, you just -- oh. It's one thing after another with you.

NNAMDIMy Palm was my life.

DRUINBut the thing is, there really isn't any reason why -- unless you really wanna have a separate phone from your PDA, there's no reason that you need to separate it. And in fact, actually, I was one of those that carried around five different devices at one point. I thought, this is it. I'm losing everything. But the phone can back up to, you know, to your computer, and it's really -- it is wonderful. But, yeah, iPod touch and -- or an iPhone or an Android, any of these things are really just as good as what you're dealing with. I would do a little ceremony for your PDA, though.

GILROYYou know, I was -- I had a contractor over the house last night. He's given me an estimate for some kitchen work, and he didn't get a -- he's got his phone. He did -- he used the calculator right there. It was just...

DRUINAbsolutely.

GILROYThat's the transition you make. You even -- you just assume that's what you use. It's not even a -- wasn't even a choice because it's convenient.

DRUINYup.

NNAMDIBill, Google Chrome Web browser is dropping H.264 video support. Never before has a sexier sounding sentence made it onto a radio broadcast. It's a story that sounds dry, but it could profoundly affect how video is served on the Web. What's going on?

HARLOWWell, H.264 is a very popular format for encoding video. It's what's used on Blu-ray. It's what's used on iPhones and iPads and a lot of other devices as well because it's, you know, it's a standard that is...

GILROYThere's nothing wrong with it.

HARLOWYeah, there's nothing -- it's not owned by any one company, first of all. It is a ratified standard. And there are tons of low-power chips out there that can accelerate playing this back efficiently, which is why you can watch video on your iPad and not kill the battery in two hours. So that's all well and good. But the fact is, there is a licensing cost involved for people who are using this for commercial reasons. So what Google is claiming is that this, therefore, isn't open and free. So they're gonna drop support from Chrome, and they're gonna use something called a VP8, which is free. But guess what, Google owns it, technically.

HARLOWSo it's not really an open standard, but they're going to treat it that way. I'm not aware of any formal support, you know, in any sort of chips to accelerate it right now. So, you know, let's say, you know, we've got these two warring factions, VP8 and H.264. So maybe you can't play some stuff on your iPhone, which you've taken for granted all this time because H.264 runs really well. Or maybe it means that Flash gains more traction, which is, to me, unfortunate because even though you can -- it works pretty well on newer Android devices, it still kills the battery compared to using other methods.

GILROYIt sure seems, though, like what Microsoft used to do with technology where they have their own version of a industry standard, and maybe that's what Google is trying to...

HARLOWYeah. I mean, I think it's more of a power grab than any sort of, you know, noble effort to keep things open and free.

GILROYGoing open source, right.

HARLOWYeah.

NNAMDIHere's Anna in Washington, D.C. Hi, Anna.

ANNAGood afternoon.

NNAMDIGood afternoon.

ANNAI was calling because a friend of mine on Facebook had a troubling post that said that they suggest -- they were changing their name back to their maiden name for security reasons, and that she also suggested that anyone take family pictures off of their profile picture. She didn't give any details, but she said that it's something that happened personally to her. Do you guys have any insight what kinds of harm could happen with this kind of thing?

NNAMDIAllison?

DRUINWell, it's interesting because you could do -- I mean, there -- when people have, you know, breakups, especially in their family, they can use these kinds of pictures to say, ooh, look at that child. They're doing an unsafe thing. And suddenly, you see that Facebook picture is being used in court against them. They can show that the person is, you know, with a drink in their hand. And suddenly, it shows up in a custody battle. So, you know, you have to think about what is public and what can someone, unfortunately, when you have a really big battle waging, what can they say about you and do.

NNAMDIAnd even if you delete it from your own page, it may have already been shared by several…

HARLOWRight.

NNAMDI...hundred friends of yours and still out there.

DRUINExactly.

GILROYYou know, what's going on in the security community in town here, there are high-level executives from big companies that say, Facebook -- I'm not gonna have anything to do with Facebook, LinkedIn. I have nothing to do with that because I'm gonna be clean. Guess what, what's to prevent Allison from setting up a Kojo Nnamdi LinkedIn page...

HARLOWThat's right.

GILROY...or a Kojo Nnamdi page? So executives now are hiring companies to protect them from other people setting up fake sites. And...

DRUINYup, yup.

GILROY...so Allison sets up a fake site for Kojo and turns out that it's making all these things up about Kojo, and Kojo doesn't even know it because he thinks he's above the fray by not getting involved in it. Just being alive means you're involved in social networking.

HARLOWYeah, being public.

GILROYYeah.

NNAMDIAnna, thank you very much for your call. And, John, we've been together for many years. And just like you did a minute ago...

HARLOWOh.

DRUINOh.

NNAMDI...over the time, you thoroughly scared me about all sorts of security threats to my computer.

GILROYKeep fear alive. Keep fear alive.

NNAMDIYou've warned us about phishing scams, Trojan attacks and botnets. But this month, you're alerting us to a new threat -- zombie printers controlled by hackers.

GILROYZombie printers. Printers gone wild. I love this. Printers gone wild. You know, if you walk through a typical company, you'll see these very large standalone printers and they're fax machines and they make coffee. They turn -- do all kinds of things. And guess what...

HARLOWYeah, they're smart printers.

GILROYYeah.

DRUINYeah.

GILROYThey have hard drives in them.

DRUINYeah.

GILROYAnd so let's say Bill is a bad guy, theoretically, and he wants to store...

NNAMDITheoretically?

HARLOWTheoretically. Theoretically. I'm sticking to that.

GILROY...he wants to store some stuff, he can store it. Why not? If it's got an IP address, just break in and place it in the hard drive. And who would ever think looking in a hard drive on a copier? So, now, in addition to mobile devices and social networking, you have to worry about your copier. Not necessarily a techie, but it could be a zombie server, something else in Russia.

HARLOWI think of a zombie ink jet. Every day, it's always like, ink, more ink.

GILROYZombie inkjet. (laugh) Zombie servers and printers gone wild. I love that title. (laugh)

NNAMDIYou know, Bill and Allison, we spent a lot of time talking about Android as a mobile phone platform. But Google's operating system is being worked into all kinds of home appliances and gadgets. This could promise a more wired house, but doesn't that also mean that someone might one day hack into my refrigerator?

GILROYAnd take your turkey sandwich.

HARLOWSomeone might delete my eggs.

GILROYYeah, delete that -- the chicken you had for dinner last night or something.

DRUINAnd turn off your machine.

HARLOWI mean, sure. Anything with a popular computing platform built in, I think, is -- you know, runs the risk of attack. You know, how locked down it is? You know, it's tough to say. But -- I mean, when you look at the growth of Android right now, I mean, it -- last time I checked, it was actually -- it surpassed the iPhone as the most popular smart phone platform. So the way Google is working is they really do want this to be everywhere because they're not really selling Android. They're -- they want everybody to use their products so they can, you know, do more targeted advertising. So, you know, it can -- it could be a concern because I think it will show up everywhere.

NNAMDIAnd this we got from Tony in D.C. "Does one really have to change the plan to tether? Rooted Android devices can just tether over the existing connection, and the battery on the phone doesn't drain because it charges from the computer."

DRUINIt depends on the carrier. It depends on the phone.

HARLOWIt depends on how much you use it, too, because...

DRUINIt depends on how much you use it. So, yeah.

GILROYI think it depends more than a lawyer.

DRUINOh, it's so scary.

GILROYIt depends.

DRUINBut that's because Android is not, you know, a -- just one consistent platform like the iPhone. Android is used by many, many carriers, many, many platform hardware devices. So it's a very different thing.

NNAMDIAnd in the ongoing determination of listeners to develop a new name for these three individuals, we got this e-mail from...

GILROYI'm the terrible one, by the way.

NNAMDI...Diane in Columbia, Md. "I have a suggestion for a new name for Computer Guys & Gal. How about Tech Trio or Tech Trio?"

GILROYNo. You go with one that works.

HARLOWTrio, though? It means I'm not fired, so I like the name.

DRUINIt sounds like a PDA, actually. It's very nice. (laugh)

NNAMDIThe new Tech Trio. Allison Druin is director of the Human-Computer Interaction Lab…

GILROYSounds like, you know -- well, I've guitars here. (laugh) Start singing.

NNAMDI...and associate dean for research at the College of Information Studies at the University of Maryland.

DRUINKumbaya.

GILROYKumbaya.

NNAMDIBill Harlow is a former Mac genius and hardware and software technician for Macs and PCs at Mid-Atlantic Consulting Incorporated. And John Gilroy is director of business development at the Armature Corporation. Together, they are, hey, whatever the heck you wanna call them.

GILROYWe're not the trio, I'll tell you that much.

NNAMDIThank you all for listening. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.