MR. KOJO NNAMDIFrom WAMU 88.5 in Washington and live from the studios of Radio Metropole in Port-au-Prince, Haiti. Welcome to "The Kojo Nnamdi Show," connecting your neighborhood with the world. Even before this year's devastating earthquake, the business of feeding the Haitian people was also the business of feeding the country's fledgling economy. Later in the broadcast, we'll hear from two people committed to reviving Haitian agriculture as a way of getting the country back on track. But first, we hear from an adopted Washingtonian on a mission to use food to help patients back on their feet. When winter storms knocked out power in Washington earlier this year, Jose Andres, one of the most famous cooks in the region, needed a way to make dinner for his family.

MR. KOJO NNAMDIHis solution came in the form of a solar-powered kitchen that he had lying around his house, which he soon put to use in his backyard. That's when the idea hit him. These kitchens could work in disaster zones. He took that idea to Haiti a few weeks later, setting off on a quest to deploy solar kitchens and prepare food for people in need. We spoke with Jose Andres two weeks ago as he was preparing to visit Haiti again. Jose Andres, thank you for joining us.

MR. JOSE ANDRESI'm very happy to be here, Kojo.

NNAMDIAlways happy to see you. First of all, tell us about your experiences with food in Haiti. Walk us through this country's food culture for people who may not have had much experience with it.

ANDRESWell, you know, I went to Haiti around March, early this year, and, to me, it was an amazing discovery to see that even in their very, very, very unique circumstances, the will of the people will always be bigger than any nightmare. And, to me, it was very fascinating to see that next to camps where there was issues and hunger and -- still, people have this need to show the best they have. So you will see, very often, those women with these very unique trays, and in those trays you will see, like, 10, 12 different kinds of fried foods. Like, for example, marinade, which is these fritter that they made with humble water and humble flour and sometimes pieces of dried fish. And then those fritters were unique.

ANDRESThere, I could see the pieces of South America, the pieces of Spain, the pieces of America's (word?). I could see the influences of Africa, all in a tiny island, that maybe they been through a lot of bad moments in the near past, but that you see that they all have that need to always be looking to the future. So everyone tells you very bad stories about Haiti. Me, I'm a guy that I'm trying to bring also some light because people have the will to make things happen. And the Haitians are one of those people that they have an enormous will of making things happen.

NNAMDIWe've talked with you a lot over the years about your fascination with the science of cooking, how you're using science to reinvent the kitchen. But earlier this year, you applied that fascination with food science to disaster relief when you traveled to Haiti in the wake of the earthquake to deploy solar-powered kitchens. What inspired you to go? And what led you to believe that solar-powered cooking could be the answer?

ANDRESSolar kitchens -- this is why I'm so happy to be in America and to be in Washington where everything seems to be happening. I had friends of mine that they came for a clean energy kind of symposium, and those friends brought with them solar kitchens. They gave me one, and I began testing with the kitchen, boiling water and playing with my children. I didn't have any other thinking. Then in January, we had the huge snow storm. We run out of electricity in Bethesda, Md.

NNAMDII've been to your home.

ANDRESGuess what? I put the kitchen out, and in 10 minutes we were cooking a beautiful chicken with noodles for my family and for anyone that had the plate and wanted to be fed. That moment, I pick up the phone, I call my friends, and I told them, guys, we're going Haiti. How soon can we go? It's amazing. But if you learn a little bit about what's happening in Haiti, 98 percent of the country, total deforestation -- no trees. No trees, no future. Why no trees? They use charcoal. They cut the trees to produce charcoal. If they keep doing this, these people will never ever have a future.

ANDRESSolar energy could be part of the solution to give a chance to those families to tell them, we don't need you to be all day looking for wood in the forest or whatever forest they have left. But we want you to spend the time empowering the economy another way, but not looking for the energy that will cook their meal. With the sun, they don't have to work anymore. So it's a long dream, but I believe that solar kitchens could be part of a better tomorrow.

NNAMDIAnd it's funny because you started using it after you got one in January, but the science behind these solar kitchens isn't exactly new. They've been around for a long time.

ANDRESYes. And this is what I ask myself. I am a cook. My destiny is to the feed the world. The chefs of the world, part of our destiny is to feed the world. We cannot be silent. So, you know, to me, to get that kitchen and to start reading what happened during the last 30, 40 years and start meeting the people that invented this technology. There's this doctor in Germany called Dr. Dieter, is probably the Godfather of solar cooking. I began learning. One of the issues is that people like to see fire. People like to see the orange color. That's why our electric kitchens at home, when we turn them on...

NNAMDIYou see that red.

ANDRES...you see, also, the orange. Why, because even us, we like to see the color of the fire. It's in our DNA. So these solar kitchens that -- they have these social issue, so we -- what I want to be doing is, how can I be learning enough that then I can find the issues that can help me tell people why they should be using these. They're developing a pressure cooker. I painted black on my own. Already, I called the company. They are making 100 more for me. Why? Because I believe those pressure cookers are going to show that we can bring the time of cooking almost in half. And if I can boil two gallons of water in less than 40 minutes, that's a very powerful thing. So, you see, that's what I'm doing. I'm not helping. I am learning, so I can one day be a real leader.

NNAMDIYou, before we started this conversation, were telling me about what you can find at a market in Haiti. Tell us about that.

ANDRESWell, you know, in my first trip, I use -- I was very lucky to go to not only to Port-au-Prince, but to many beautiful areas around Haiti, like Fonds-Verrettes, right in the frontier between Dominican Republic and Haiti, a beautiful rural village where people are really trying to get by, planting and doing, you know, what any normal civilization will do to keep moving forward. But one of my favorite places was in the southwest part of Haiti by the sea -- was a tiny town called Jacmel -- well, not so tiny. In Jacmel, it was fascinating because they have, like, this 19th century beautiful market with copper -- I mean, looks out of a movie.

ANDRESAnd, for me, it was fascinating to see the woman selling the salt that they are able to extract from the sea, seeing the fresh fish, enormous variety that was being sold there -- was during the bean season -- a lot of different kinds of beans, tomatoes, breadfruit. So, you see, we think there is nothing in Haiti. It's not true. It's a lot of things in Haiti. Only, we need to make sure that we help those people to keep producing more of those foods, so they can self sustain themselves on their own.

NNAMDINext, comes -- it's particularly important hearing that coming from you because I've watched you on television going to markets in all different parts of the world. So to hear you talking about a market in Haiti at a time when we think of Haiti only in terms of not having sufficient food, but looking at a market and understanding that there is a food culture in Haiti, is very important.

ANDRESBut let me tell you why it's even more important. We need to think that there are farmers -- 60, 70 percent of the economy is around farming -- but they are only producing 20 percent of the country's income, of the -- it's 20 percent of the country's economy. You know, one of the issues when an earthquake, like, in this case, or when a country, a poor country starts receiving foreign aid in the form of food, everyone feels good, right? Because you think you are sending cans of food and you are sending rice and then you go to bed thinking, I'm a such good citizen. Let me tell you. Every time we give food away, we are destroying the local farming economy.

ANDRESSo that's why I love that I'm partnering with Dr. Yunus, the Nobel Prize winner of 2006, the king of social business that says, we should stop throwing money at the problem. We should start investing into the solution. So giving food is okay for the first week or 10 days of distress. But we should always start thinking not about giving food, but in many cases, giving money to buy the food locally when food is available locally. This way, we help the economy from day one.

NNAMDIWhen you talk about using local crops and local food sources, what foods do you find hold the most potential for doing that in Haiti?

ANDRESWell, I'm -- you know, I'm foremost a chef, and I'm not the best expert on what the best foods for a country like Haiti will be to help the country to keep moving forward. But there are some people, that they live around that and even it's a lot of the disagreements. But, for example, we need trees in the country.

NNAMDIYes.

ANDRESTrees, because they don't only give you shade, trees, because also they are very important with the roots to help maintain the soil. Every time that it rains during the rainy season, we hear how many people die because the mountains that have no trees become like rivers, that as the water falls down the hills, takes -- we've heard -- lives and houses and everything else. So the trees are unbelievably important, not only for the shade, but to (word?) because they help the fertile soil.

ANDRESA tree that is very amazing will be the breadfruit tree, a tree that doesn't belong to the Caribbean, that, unfortunately, came because it was a way to feed the slaves, that was an English idea of Captain Bligh of the mutiny of the Bounty. But the breadfruit tree is a tree that grows quick, produces fruit in less than three, four years and, you know what, will provide all the things we're talking -- roots to sustain the soil, fruit to feed the people and leaves to give shade. Trees like the breadfruit could be part of that solution. But there are others, like mango, et cetera, et cetera.

NNAMDIWe're talking with Jose Andres. He is the executive chef at Jaleo, Café Atlantico, Minibar, Oyamel and Zaytinya restaurants in Washington D.C. We're talking to him just before he makes a trip to Haiti. It won't be the first time this year. Indeed, Jose Andres, the last you were in Haiti, you prepared a sausage stew with rice and peas that fed some 200 people, and people kept coming. What do you do after that?

ANDRESI want to make sure that, to me, those were -- it's very amazing because I've never felt in my life so respected and so loved with so little. I cooked dishes that probably as a cook I would not be proud. As a technical cook, I didn't make the best dish of my life. But probably I never had happier guests, if you want to put it this way. But, yeah, people kept coming. And, you know, I had these two drivers with me, and we had these cars. And I made sure that they had enough food in the back, and they had those cans that they brought in the Dominican Republic side with sardines -- good protein. And we had a lot of bread, and I grew up eating a dish that is like sauté bread.

NNAMDIMm hmm.

ANDRESWhen my mother didn't have anything else to eat, you know, whole bread, you would put it in the pan with some oil and some garlic, and you sauté.

NNAMDIOh, yeah.

ANDRESAnd if you had an egg, you will serve the egg, and you will eat bread crumbs with egg. So I thought, man, let's sauté bread. I had all the kids start making crumbs with the bread, and we sautéed it with a little bit of oil I had left and some garlic. Then when the bread was sautéed and brown, I put out the cans of sardines, and, man, it was delicious. But the most important part to me, again -- I didn't go on my trips to feed people. I am going in a very selfish way to learn because to me this is like an MBA. And as much as I learn is how much I'm going to be able to be helping in the near future.

NNAMDIYou've worked in Washington for quite some time with Robert Egger at the D.C. Central Kitchen. You're taking that idea global now with the World Central Kitchen. What are you aiming to accomplish?

ANDRESRobert Egger, to me, to Washington -- to me, personally, is a very important figure in my life because when I met him 17 years ago -- 16 years ago, really changed my life as a young man. And I'm so blessed that I was able to become his friend and learn under him about how we can empower communities through food. So very much of me doing this World Central Kitchen is, in big part, owed to him. What I'm trying to accomplish is simple. How can I empower communities around the world with food and cooking that food in not only in a sustainable way -- meaning cook stoves that will be sustainable and using green energy like solar -- but also in a social business way?

ANDRESAgain, we cannot keep only thinking that we are going to give food away for free. And we need to try to create systems where people take ownership of their situation and of their own problems. This is not easy. It's a very hard road. But if we achieve that, is really the moment that when we leave -- when the white man with its power and its non-profit organizations leave those countries, if what we leave behind is not systems that work, we may feel good about ourselves. But, actually, we are not accomplishing much. We need to think in a social business way, as Dr. Yunus said. When we leave, we need to make sure that what we leave behind keeps moving forward on its own with issues. It's always issues...

NNAMDISure.

ANDRES...but it has to be moving. That's my dream -- to help through cooking, create kitchens that will feed communities, will feed the schools, will feed hospitals, will feed the poor, and in a social business way, giving an option to this woman to cook and have a living, feeding people and providing for their families at the same time. And if we achieve this, this is how food and my profession can empower one village at a time, one orphanage at a time, one hospital at a time.

NNAMDIIs it your hope that solar-powered kitchens and pressure cookers are going to be, in the future, a part of the Haitian culinary culture?

ANDRESThis is what I dream, but I know that the dream is heavy. That's why I always like to remember Winston Churchill once said success is going from failure to failure without losing enthusiasm. It's not only solar. It's any cook stove that can be clean. I just came back from Boston. I just came back from Harvard. I was talking to some of the most amazing people, some of the smartest scientists. And I challenged them to keep investing and researching in cook stoves for the poor.

ANDRESHilary Clinton -- Secretary Clinton, last September -- September the 10th, announced a partnership with United Nations on a world alliance for research and development of the clean cook stoves of the future. This is huge. Secretary Clinton. You see, I feel like we are into something here. Cooking is very important because eating is more important because food is the most important energy on this planet. And we need to start thinking about how that food, again, can keep empowering the communities.

NNAMDISpeaking of eating, before I let you go, I have to ask you, what's the most delicious thing that you remember eating while you were in Haiti?

ANDRESWell, they have this love for this kind of mushroom. It's a black mushroom that is very typical in the north part of Haiti, which is rainier...

NNAMDIThe black mushroom.

ANDRES...and is wetter. And it's called djon djon, something like D-J-O-N D-J-O-N.

NNAMDIMm hmm.

ANDRESAnd with that djon djon black mushroom, they make rice. And the rice is delicious -- rice and some chicken stock and this beautiful black mushroom. I ate it here in Café Atlantico when I came to (word?) Morgan 18 years ago, thanks to my partner and friend Roberto Alvarez. And this dish, that every time I have a chance, I eat it. So I was fascinated when I was able to eat it in Haiti itself.

NNAMDIWell, I'll consider that a recommendation. Jose Andres, thank you very much for joining us.

ANDRESThank you, Kojo. And thank you very much for taking this moment out to be giving a chance to Haiti and to telling the people of metropolitan Washington on what a fascinating country -- that only one's respect and the opportunity to move forward on their own.

NNAMDIJose Andres is the executive chef at Jaleo, Café Atlantico, Minibar, Oyamel and Zaytinya restaurants in Washington, D.C. You can see the video of an interview we did on green stoves posted on our website at kojoshow.org. That's our website, kojoshow.org. You can also see photos of the U.S. rice that Haitians buy and a whole bunch of other photos and videos from our visit here in Port-au-Prince, Haiti. We're coming to you live from the studios of Radio Metropole in Port-au-Prince. We're going to take a short break. When we come back, we hear from two people on the front lines of the fight to make Haitian agriculture relevant on both the local and global scale. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.

NNAMDIWelcome back. We're coming to you live from Port-au-Prince, Haiti. The seeds of Haiti's long-term recovery could very well lie at the base of a mango tree or in the handiwork of a sugar mill or in the, well, aroma of a chicken farm. Many Haitians depend on agriculture for their livelihoods, and global trade policies have squeezed local businesses. This hour we're joined by two guests at the center of this fight to make Haitian agriculture a part of the country's broader march back from disaster. Joining us in the studios of the Radio Metropole in Port-au-Prince is Carl Andre Dejoie. He is the CEO of MFTSA, that's a poultry and egg business near Port-au-Prince. Carl Andre Dejoie, thank you for joining us.

MR. CARL ANDRE DEJOIEThank you (word?).

NNAMDIJoining us by telephone from Florida is Regine Barjon. Regine is marketing director for the Haitian-American Chamber of Commerce. She's also the CEO of BioTek Solutions, which is an agro-energy development company that supports the Darbonne sugar mill in Haiti and other local food related projects. Regine Barjon, thank you for joining us.

MS. REGINE BARJONThank you very much for having me.

NNAMDIRegine, a few weeks ago, former U.S. President Bill Clinton paid a visit to a sugar mill that you support near Leogane. It's my understanding that it's the only functioning sugar mill in Haiti, but that you think the ideas behind it hold great promise for the entire country. What do you see there?

BARJONWell, absolutely. The Darbonne sugar mill is basically one of two sugar mills that are -- one, which is not working at all, and the Darbonne sugar mill, which is running at half stat. And if the Darbonne sugar mill were running, it would probably support or employ about over 32 independent farmers. That translates in feeding over 150,000 people since each working person in Haiti is responsible for eight others. And what we need to remember is that -- Mr. Andres asked this question earlier.

BARJONHe said he didn't know which would be the best foods to plant in Haiti, which would be the best cultivation. Well, I can answer that. If we look at rice, sugar and poultry, those three products represent over 50 percent of Haiti's annual trade deficits. And those are all products that can be produced locally and that don't need to be imported into Haiti, and those are all products that should be supported by the international community, that would basically create a lot of jobs that would create food security.

BARJONFor instance, when Oxfam Quebec, I think, or Oxfam America, in a survey, asked a number of people what do Haitians want? What do you want? Most of the respondents to a survey affected -- of the people affected by the earthquake ranked food -- local food production among the four most important assistance interventions, along with job creation, education and shelter. So that was the number one, the top priority for Haitian people, which is local food production. And if we look into the most important food products or what Haiti imports the most of, it's basically sugar, rice and poultry.

NNAMDII'd be interested in what our listening audience thinks about this. The number you can call is 800-433-8850. Where do you think farming and agriculture should fit in to Haiti's long-term recovery plans? 800-433-8850 or go to our website, kojoshow.org. Join the conversation there. Send us an e-mail to kojowamu.org or a tweet @kojoshow. Regine, how did the earthquake affect the everyday business at the sugar mill?

BARJONThe sugar mill itself was not affected, but, unfortunately, a lot of the market outlets -- in other words distilleries to whom the sugar mills -- the sugar cane farmers sell their products to -- were destroyed. Because Leogane, for instance, the region where the sugar mill is located, was about -- was over 90 percent destroyed. They're -- you can -- it's barely recognizable. It looks like a war zone. So the farmers now don't have anyone, for the most part, to sell their sugar cane to. So you now have the sugar mill, which is basically also the largest employer in the province, and the sugar mill has a lot of potential.

BARJONFor instance, that sugar mill should be able to -- if it was fully operational -- would displace or reduce sugar imports by 40 percent. Haiti imports 250,000 metric tons of sugar every year. The sugar mill has the potential or the capacity to produce up to 100,000 metric tons of sugar. Therefore, if it's fully operational again, it reduces 40 percent of Haitian imports. That's equivalent to about $100 million, give or take. In addition to that, the sugar mill could produce renewable energy out of the sugar cane bagasse. That can produce up to 20 megawatts of electricity. So, right there, you have a win, win situation.

BARJONYou basically then make electricity renewable -- clean renewable electricity available to many more people at an affordable price, in addition to being able to produce sugar at home, therefore keeping the money at home and employing -- like I said, it would employ over 30,000 people. Now, if you had three sugar mills fully operational or working, you would displace 100 percent of the sugar imports as well as produce up to possibly 40, 50 megawatts of renewable energy. Right now, Haiti has a 60 megawatt electricity deficit. Right there, with renewable energy, you would be able to meet that deficit.

NNAMDICarl Andre Dejoie, you are in the poultry and egg business. What are the biggest challenges that you face every day trying to farm and sell your product to customers in Haiti?

DEJOIEActually, my business, which is MFT, we have a social entrepreneurship business. We produce layers to sell to the farmers, and those are the ones who are going to produce the eggs.

NNAMDIThe layers?

DEJOIEThe layers. So, actually, at MFT, we produce, more or less, the 30,000 layers per month, and we sell them to small farmers. We have designed some small scoop for 60 birds. And the biggest problem for everyone in that business is feed. We have to feed the animals.

NNAMDIHow did your -- how did the earthquake affect your business earlier this year?

DEJOIEWe had a big problem. We fear some leaks in our water system. We lost about 30,000 birds, and that was a big shot for us.

NNAMDII'd like to go to the phones and talk with Karen in Annandale, Va. Karen, you are on the air. Go ahead, please.

KARENI wanted to comment about the chickens. I was just at a conference, and I was told by an orphanage outside of Leogane that they wanted to raise poultry. But the problem they were having was getting the grain to feed the animals. And I was wondering if your guests have any suggestions as to, you know, how a small group could go about getting the feed?

NNAMDICarl, what would you suggest?

DEJOIEActually, that is a big program, which is done by WINNER Project. It is a USAID support. They are trying to improve the grain production in the country, and they are working with, more or less, 10,000 farmers. They are planning to increase the grain production by the end of this year up to 3,000 acres. And...

NNAMDIWhat's the name of that group?

DEJOIEThat -- WINNER Project.

NNAMDIOkay.

DEJOIEIt's a project by USAID.

NNAMDIRegine -- and Karen, thank you...

BARJONBut, Carl, there's something you didn't say...

NNAMDI...very much for your call. Regine, I read an article a few months ago where you were quoted as saying that Haiti technically became independent 200 years ago, but that it's never really been free because it spends so much time begging for help, especially when it comes to food. Why do you feel that food contributes to the cycle of Haiti constantly seeking help from international partners?

BARJONWell, just to give you an example, right now Haiti has about 1.4 million hectares of agricultural land -- 700,000 hectares of which is underutilized. As Carl just mentioned and the lady from Virginia who just called said that one of the problem is feed. MFT actually provides the feed, and they're also not just an egg and poultry farm. They also heavily invest in agriculture so that Haiti can have a local feed production. So if the people from Leogane want feed, they can probably get it from MFT. I wanted to plug that in.

BARJONWhy is Haiti dependent on food? For the most part, because they lowered the tariffs, I think, at the -- in the 1990s, the tariffs for imports were significantly lowered where it made the Haitian agriculture or Haitian farmers not able to compete with international farmers. To give you an example, I think, for the most part, international -- the government of Haiti reduced tariffs on imported rice from 50 percent to just 3 percent compared with the Caribbean average of 38 percent. We need to introduce a more equitable trade policy so that we don't penalize the farmers. To give you another example...

NNAMDIAllow me...

BARJON...to produce the...

NNAMDIAllow me to interrupt for a second, Regine...

BARJONHello?

NNAMDI...because President Bill Clinton is on the record as saying that he now believes it was a mistake to increase the penetration of American rice into Haiti, which a lot of people believe made it impossible for Haitian farmers to compete at the global level. Where do you see the local effects of that policy? And how has it affected the farmers that you work with?

BARJONWell, to give you a direct example, to produce a ton of rice in the United States, it costs about $450 per metric ton -- in Haiti about $425. But by the time the U.S. rice gets to Haiti, it's at about $250, $300 and -- because our rice is subsidized by up to 72 percent. So, right there, you've removed the Haitian farmer from the mix. They are not able to compete. That's a direct impact on how U.S. rice subsidization has affected Haitian farmers. In addition to that, when we're giving the rice away -- this is not even selling it.

BARJONWhen we're giving the rice away, you've basically removed the Haitian farmer completely from the mix because they can't compete with something that's given for free. We noticed after the earthquake, a number of water companies went out of business. Some people had to reduce their workforce by 50 percent. I know one particular water company that basically had to lay off over 300 people because we were giving out Zephyrhills or bottled water from the United States that we're flying in right away. So I could understand a month after the earthquake, but six, seven months after the earthquake, that's not feasible.

BARJONWe should basically work the -- and this has to be done on a governmental level. Agriculture has to have a central place in post-earthquake reconstruction. The rhetoric is nice. I understand President Clinton has been a great supporter of all this, and we're most grateful for that. But, right now, we need to go beyond the rhetoric. We need the policies to reflect the rhetoric. The policies have to be implemented where we have more equitable trade policies protecting the Haitian farmer and the Haitian consumer.

NNAMDIRegine Barjon is marketing director for the Haitian-American Chamber of Commerce. In case you hadn't guessed by her name, she is a Haitian-American. She's also the CEO of BioTek Solutions, an agro-energy development company that supports the Darbonne sugar mill in Haiti and other local food related projects. She joins us by telephone from Florida. Joining us from our studios at the Radio Metropole in Port-au-Prince, Haiti, is Carl Andre Dejoie, CEO of MFTSA, which is a poultry and egg business near Port-au-Prince.

NNAMDIWe're going to be taking a short break. If you have already called, stay on the line. If you haven't yet, we still have lines open at 800-433-8850. What do you think all the aid provided to Haiti over the years, particularly access to cheap food, has meant for the country's economic health and its agricultural enterprises? 800-433-8850 or go to our website, kojoshow.org. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.

NNAMDIWe're live in Port-au-Prince, Haiti, discussing food and Haiti's recovery. We're talking with Carl Andre Dejoie. He is CEO of MFTSA, which is a poultry and egg business near Port-au-Prince. He joins us in studios in Port-au-Prince. Joining us by telephone from Florida is Regine Barjon, Marketing Director for the Haitian-American Chamber of Commerce and CEO of BioTek Solutions, an agro-energy development company that supports the Darbonne sugar mill in Haiti and other local food related projects. I'd like to go directly to the phones and talk with Jim in Tacoma Park. Jim, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

JIMOkay. Great. This week has been terrific. You guys are doing a great job. I have listened to every minute of it. The two things that I want to get across, the issue of the treelessness of Haiti has come up. There's an incredible organization based in Silver Spring, Md., called Trees For The Future. And everybody take out their pens and pencils. It's Trees, F, as in Frank, T, as in Tom, F, as in Frank, F, as in Frank, .org. They are planting trees all over the world, including in Haiti, at great physical risk to themselves down there. They're heroes, and they -- you know, they're trying to re-tree Haiti.

JIMThe other great website is just, J-U-S-T, haiti.org. It is a coffee co-op started by an American named Kimberly Lamberty, and it is allowing -- the only trees in Haiti right now are the coffee trees down in Baraderes, way in the west side of the country. And they -- thanks to Kim -- are able to sell their coffee directly to us consumers here in the United States. So, anyway, I want to get that word out. And the hero of Trees For The Future is a wonderful man named David Deppner D-E-P-P-N-E-R. And, anyway, I just wanted to get that on the record.

NNAMDIJim, thank you very much for your call. You know, Regine and Carl, women occupy a very sensitive piece of this conversation. A report released by Oxfam earlier this fall found that labor in Haiti's agricultural sector is very divided along gender lines with women dominating in food markets as wholesalers and as the purchasers of seeds. Carl, first you. Tell us a little bit about the role women play in your business.

DEJOIEAt the moment, they are all men customers. The small cages were designed for ladies. It take them very few time to walk with, just 15 minutes a day, and they can stay home. Because, here in Haiti, there are women in the poor class of people, they go outside of the house to work. And they leave their children alone, and, here, are bad thing happen to the kids. So by working with the chicken, kids are at home. They are free time to take care of their kids and to make money for a living.

NNAMDIAt the same time, Regine, how do you feel -- what do you feel will be the role of women as Haiti retools its agricultural sector?

BARJONI think we basically need to strengthen women, either via private sector development -- I think the (word?), for instance, which provides micro-loans, I think, mostly to women -- but I don't think they discriminate women and men -- is really a great tool. The Bill Gates Foundation is introducing the mobile wallet program, where you're basically now going to be providing banking access to the unbanked, those who -- the informal market sector. And 40 percent of, by the way, of Haitian households are made up of women, and the women are basically -- how should I say that -- they're the producers.

BARJONThey ensure food security. They go to the markets. They often travel abroad to bring back goods. A lot of the stuff -- the used clothing. A lot of the stuff you see on the streets in Haiti is -- for the most part, are sold by women. Women are also wage laborers. They -- but they tend to face discrimination on the ladder. They make up very -- they make up a large part of the Haitian economy, and we should strengthen them, provide them with technical training, financial training so that they can then be able to face a more secure future.

NNAMDILet's go to Gary in Sterling, Va. Gary, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

GARYThank you. I think a great commodity that could really be used here in the United States that could come from Haiti would be that raw, unbleached cane sugar because we pay a premium price for it around here. It's called turbinado, and it's shipped, like, 6,000 miles all the way from Hawaii. And it's just something that I think -- I'd really like to see because I know you all could sell it cheaper than what we're paying for it now. Thank you.

NNAMDIRegine Barjon, we got that, and we got a Tweet earlier asking, "Why don't you make ethanol for export from sugar?"

BARJONWe were actually very -- we wanted to do that. One of the -- we faced a number of walls. For instance, Haiti doesn't have a great deal of money. The banks in Haiti are very -- have very limited capital. And what we found out is that when we needed large investments -- let's say, for an ethanol plant -- we had to go to the international community -- for instance, the Overseas Private Investment Corporation. And part of the problems we faced in going to the Overseas Private Investment Corporation is that we could probably not borrow money from them, or they would not give us money because we would present a "threat to U.S. economic interests."

BARJONSo then we're -- they would basically not support a potential competitor, to simplify it. So Haiti's problems are plentiful. It's not just one -- it's not a quick-fix scheme. There are a number of issues that have to be addressed in order to revitalize and to jump-start the Haitian economy. What I constantly say is, first, do no harm. The United States were extremely generous. We give a lot of money to Haiti and other countries. But at the same time, if we're giving with one hand and taking away with the other, then it's not -- it doesn't really work.

BARJONWe have to establish a unity of purpose. We need to have better planning, coordination. We need to be able to maximize and optimize our international aid and investments to help the Haitian people become self-sufficient. And I think the key word here is Haitian economic self-sufficiency. And just like we see with the WTO policies, USAID, private sector funding, we basically need to do what we say we're going to do. Again, let's not give with one hand and take away with the other.

NNAMDICarl Andre, what's the one thing that the government could do that would make your life easier as a farmer? We heard Regine talk earlier about the lower tariffs then on imported agricultural products. Raising those tariffs would improve your life?

DEJOIEYes. But we need also to allow, as well, access to money to the bank because we have to import anyways some kind of ingredient to make the feed -- like soybean meal, vitamin, minerals -- and it's very hard to get access to the money at the bank. And we don't have any agricultural bank, actually, in the country, so that makes the life of the farmers very hard.

NNAMDIYou know, we were talking in an earlier conversation about mobile money and the use of cell phones by people in Haiti to get money that is sent from abroad. If you're interested in learning more about that, we've got an interview posted on our website with the CEO of Digicel, talking about the Gates Foundation program. But Carl's talking about another kind of financing for people involved in agriculture here. Regine, we've heard from a lot of people about the potential that mangos and coffee hold for Haiti, that they can become major export cash cows for Haiti if the country plays its cards right. What crops do you think hold the most potential for Haiti on a global scale?

BARJONWell, let's look at it this way. Mangos, last year, only represented $15 million of exports. Coffee, for the most part, is used locally. Very little of it is exported. So let's look at the reality of this. On the other hand, when you're looking at sugar, poultry or rice, that represents over $500 million a year of imports, so there's a huge difference in balance here. There's a huge imbalance -- a trade imbalance, that is. So if we're going to go that route, we need to also -- and I think Carl said it earlier -- we need to support the infrastructure. By infrastructure, I mean, we need money for irrigation. We need seed banks. Haiti has less than 10 percent of its seed stocks. So it's a huge undertaking, but it can be done.

BARJONAnd whether it's mango, for instance, or rice, sugar and poultry, we need to strengthen the foundation or the existing foundation to make these industries self-sufficient. Right now, they're not. And, again, if the major trades of the major products that I think would help Haiti -- those are numbers that are not made up by me. The numbers speak for themselves. Haiti imports $100 million in sugar, $300 million in rice, $185 million in poultry and eggs. Those three products alone make up over 50 percent of Haiti's annual trade deficit. And at the same time, Haiti still has 58 percent of people that lack adequate access to food. That equates to 5.2 million people. Haiti is one of the most food insecure places on earth.

NNAMDIRegine, I asked Carl earlier -- I probably should have directed the same question to you. What's the one thing you feel that the government could do that would make life easier for farmers and other people involved in agriculture in Haiti?

BARJONWell, I think they need to make agriculture, by far, the important activity that it is. Agriculture is the most important economic and social activity in Haiti. It accounts for 28 percent of gross domestic product, and yet, at the same time, you have the majority of Haitians -- 55 percent live in rural areas. At the same time, agriculture employs about two out of every three Haitian workers, yet over 60 percent of Haitians are underemployed or unemployed. And you have over 700,000 hectares of underutilized land, yet Haiti still imports over 60 percent of its food. That doesn't make any sense. Something is wrong. And, to me, agriculture is a win, win situation. If the government makes agriculture its priority, it will have created the very basis for economic development for Haiti. You will have food security.

BARJONWhile you are doing that, you will also contribute towards energy security, like we've seen with sugar cane bagasse. We could use a sugar cane bagasse, which is done in every country that produces sugar cane. You have both the production of sugar, but electricity as well. So there's a lot that can be done if we concentrate on food security for Haiti. It would create massive employment right there because you do have a country, for the most part -- like I said, two out of every three workers is a farmer. If the government makes agriculture a priority, Haiti will be on its way to becoming economic self-sufficient. It will create the basis on which a developed tourism and everything else that will stem from that.

NNAMDICarl Andre, do you believe that the aid coming from outside groups and NGOs is effective or, in a way, counterproductive?

DEJOIEIn a way, it's counterproductive because it don't give any direct assistance to the farmers, to those who produce the agricultural goods. In fact, they may -- they should directly help those who produce -- the farmers. And when they give the food to the people directly, they not help.

NNAMDIIt undercuts what the farmers are doing. Carl Andre Dejoie is the CEO of MFTSA, a poultry and egg business near Port-au-Prince. Thank you for joining us.

DEJOIEThank you, also.

NNAMDIRegine Barjon is Marketing Director for the Haitian-American Chamber of Commerce and the CEO of BioTek Solutions. Regine, thank you for joining us.

BARJONThank you for having us. Appreciate it.

NNAMDI"The Kojo Nnamdi Show" is produced by Brendan Sweeney, Tara Boyle, Michael Martinez and Ingalisa Schrobsdorff with help from Kathy Goldgeier and Elizabeth Weinstein. Diane Vogel is the managing producer. Our engineer here at Radio Metropole in Port-au-Prince is Andrew Chadwick. Timmy Olmstead is our engineer back in D.C. today. Special thanks to Joel Whitmeyer here at Radio Metropole, and special thanks to the original Haiti fixer, Sebastian Pitiaun (sp?), he who drives over and through rubble. Also, special thanks to our fixers, Emmanuel Madi and Joseph Blanchard. Dorie Anisman has been on the phones. Thank you all for listening to this special series live from Port-au-Prince, Haiti. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.