MR. KOJO NNAMDIWelcome back. It's your turn, 800-433-8850. Anything that is on your mind. Of course, the Congress has voted to repeal Don't Ask, Don't Tell. The Senate vote on Saturday was 65 to 31. The House vote was 250 to 175. So the president is likely to be signing this measure pretty soon. What do you think? How do you think it will affect our military effectiveness? 800-433-8850. Do you approve? What do you think about former President Jimmy Carter's assertion that at some point in the near future, America is probably going to have a gay president? 800-433-8850. You just heard D.C. interim schools Chancellor Kaya Henderson with us. What did you think about what she had to say?

MR. KOJO NNAMDIThis afternoon, after this broadcast on "Tell Me More" with Michelle Martin, you'll be hearing our former schools chancellor Michelle Rhee talk about what her plans are. How do you compare what you have heard so far about those two individuals? 800-433-8850 is the number to call. Just getting this from the Associated Press, the U.N. Security Council is urging all parties to recognize opposition leader Alassane Ouattara as Ivory's Coast -- Ivory Coast's president. A resolution adopted unanimously today, Monday, by the council, stepped up pressure on President Laurent Gbagbo to concede defeat, which he has so far refused to do.

MR. KOJO NNAMDIThe resolution are just all Ivorian parties and stakeholders, to quoting here, "respect the will of the people and the outcome of the election" in view of the recognition of Ouattara by the African Union and the West African regional group ECOWAS in order to ensure peace in Ivory Coast. The vice president of Ghana has also written a piece, indicating that you can tell by the response to what's going on in the Ivory Coast that there is a higher expectation, both on the part of Africans and for those outside Africa, about democracy in Africa because we're seeking to avert a crisis in Ivory Coast that in previous years may have come down before the world even noticed. What happened, of course, is that there was an election held.

MR. KOJO NNAMDIThe president, Laurent Gbagbo, apparently lost the election to Alassane Ouattara. All of the observing agencies, and after that the African Union and the U.N., agreed that the president had lost the election. He says, "they are all wrong," and that he has, in fact, won the election. He does apparently have the loyalty of the military. And so you had a situation in which two presidents were sworn in, the one who allegedly won the election and the incumbent who apparently lost the election. And the U.N. is now helping to protect Alan Wasara (sic) and his supporters -- let me get his name properly here -- Alassane Ouattara and his supporters are apparently being protected by the U.N.

MR. KOJO NNAMDIAdditionally, President Gbagbo has asked -- some would say ordered -- the U.N. to leave. And the U.N. said no, it is not leaving. So in my view, what we are seeing is a buildup to a confrontation in Ivory Coast that the world seeks to avoid. What do you think? 800-433-8850. Or about Don't Ask, Don't Tell repealed. Here is Anthony in Baltimore, Md. Anthony, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

ANTHONYYes. As I was saying to the screener, I think that Republicans going against Don't Ask, Don't Tell were just cutting off their nose to spite the face. They forgot about this war that we just had. We had stop-loss, where people wanted -- were supposed to get out, but they wouldn't let them out because they didn't have anyone to replace them with. They caused the highest rate of suicide ever because people couldn't get out. And it just seems foolish to let people who don't want -- who do want to fight, you know, keep them from war.

ANTHONYAlso, this puts to end -- if they didn't pass it anyway, if they don't repeal it, it puts the end to the draft, the selective service. Everyone who is -- well, the general is saying, wait until after combat to make this decision. But if the combat gets worse than Vietnam, you're going to need people, and nobody is going to go. They're all going to say I'm gay, and they're not going to be accepted.

NNAMDIWell, in May 1993, just 44 percent of Americans believed gays who disclose their sexual orientation should be allowed to serve in the military. But a Washington Post/ABC News poll released this month, Anthony, says that, now, 77 percent of Americans think so. When did you come to this conclusion?

ANTHONYOh, well, when I served. I was in the Marine Corps, and there were gay people in the Marine Corps. We were also on the aircraft carrier with a lot of -- you know, with the Navy. And there was a lot more gay people in the Navy output than -- but I've served, and we haven't had any problem. I was in the Marine Corps back in the '70s. And...

NNAMDIAnd combat marines opposed repeal, and their commandant, Gen. James Amos, says gays serving openly could result in deadly distractions. You don't think so as a former Marine?

ANTHONYNo. I don't think so because it hasn't happened before, like I said, for years. It's not like gay people just suddenly appeared yesterday. They've always been there. The thing is that if you ever told anybody or anybody ever found out, you were put out. That's all.

NNAMDIAnthony, thank you very much for your call. We move on to Dale in Columbia, Md., who has a slightly different view. Dale, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

DALEThank you. Good morning, Kojo -- afternoon now, my apologies. I'm also an ex-Marine -- actually, a former Marine, still a Marine. Once a Marine, always a Marine. I was also in the Army. And I was also with the Air Force, and I was also with the Navy. And I'll tell you right now, I do not agree with that other caller because there are a lot of people in the military that do have homophobia, as it were. And the military is going to have to do one of two things. They're going to have to set up special facilities to separate the two. Or they're going to have to allow people to get out because they have homophobia, and they can't hold anything against them and can't give them a dishonorable discharge. So...

NNAMDIWell, how has the Israeli military dealt with it? Because gays in the military are not unique to the United States. Gays have been allowed...

DALENo, they're not unique. The only difference in the United States is we didn't ask about it, and you didn't openly flaunt it. It's not until the past 30 years or so where you can openly be gay and not have people condemn you for it. Okay? But...

NNAMDIWell, you can openly be gay in the Israeli military. And can't we learn from the experiences of other militaries that have incorporated openly gay people into their ranks?

DALEIn the Israeli military, you have to serve. It is not an all-voluntary force. The United States is a voluntary force. The other individual brought up stopgap measures. The reason we have stopgap measures is because we have a voluntary force. We don't force people to serve. We have selective service, which means you have to register and serve in the event they ever bring back the draft. But we do not have a draft. So if you want to make...

NNAMDISo you were saying if we had...

DALE...because people don't want to go out and get shot. That's why you have stopgap measures.

NNAMDISo you're suggesting that if we had a draft, openly gay military members would be acceptable to you?

DALEI think, no matter what happens, the United States military is going to have to spend extra money, which means our government is going to have to spend extra money to find some way to get people to accept it, number one, and, two, to put up with it, meaning they're going to have to -- whether they like homosexuals or not, they're going to have to deal with it. But until that point comes in a voluntary military, it's going to cause issues. They already have a shortfall because people don't want to volunteer to get shot. So either bring back the draft or force everybody to serve.

NNAMDIWell, if they already have a shortfall because people don't want to volunteer to get shot, does this not open up the gate so that more people can now enlist and there would not be that aforementioned shortfall?

DALEThey can enlist now. They just can't say they're gay. What's the difference?

NNAMDIOkay. Okay. Dale, thank you very much for your call. We move on to James in Washington, D.C. James, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

JAMESYeah, thanks, Kojo. I think Dale cannot say whatever he wants. But I think for somebody to go into military, the fact is that a lot of gay people in the military didn't say anything. They were outed, and then they were kicked out. And you want to talk about wasting government money. Let's talk about the wasting of kicking out trained specialists in service to this government and this country who are then kicked out because of their sexual orientation.

JAMESI'm gay and just as boring as the next neighbor down the street. And when my nephew, who's in Afghanistan now, was home on leave, he and I were talking about it. And I asked him, what do you think about this? Have you heard about this? And he says, well, we've got other things to do than worry about this. I said, oh, okay. Well, are there gay people -- do you see them? Do you know them? And -- I mean, he's a pretty savvy kid from Southern California. So his gaydar is, you know, working, I guess, a little bit. He said, yeah, they're everywhere. It doesn't matter. And what do I care? And, on the other hand, if they're qualified and they're trained and they're following orders, it didn't matter to him.

ANTHONYAnd I was really struck because I think he has -- sometimes I think he has problems with me in a little bit of a way that, you know, he doesn't really know how to say things. But he in his work, which is the Army in Afghanistan, didn't matter to him. And I just think -- well, it's the same kind of -- maybe there's a longer show in this. But there is a community out there within the gay community that is really flamboyant and really over the top. And that's great and I really embrace that because it kind of pushes the country forward. But at the same time, that's not what -- the people entering the military to serve the country and to protect us, that's not what they're there for. And I think that's -- maybe this is clouding the...

NNAMDISo you think there's a general American perception that our gay neighbors are invariably more interesting and exciting than our straight neighbors?

JAMESWell, I'd like to think so, but I'm not sure that's always true. A lot of us are just trying to pay off the mortgage and...

NNAMDIHey, they might be living next to you, James, and you say you're just as boring as the neighbors down the street.

JAMESThat could be true. That could be true.

NNAMDIJames, thank you very much for your call. We move on to Lydia in Great Falls, Va. Lydia, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

LYDIAYes, hi, Kojo. I just have a comment about -- you said President Carter made a comment about America having a gay president at one point. And I think this is such a personal issue. It really doesn't matter if the president is gay, has extramarital affair or has had -- I mean, the founding father of America has a relationship with African-American woman, and he was a great president. He did good things, and we've had other presidents doing good things and having extramarital affair, have the mistake, you know, and we accept them. Why can't we just accept people the way they are and leave them alone, just focus on what they do and whether they do the job or not and not just attack them based on their sexual orientation?

NNAMDIWell, you know, Lydia, you make a very noble statement. And the fact is that we have probably had gay presidents in the past. And, for some people like yourself, it's a no-brainer, that we may have a gay president in the future. But this is talk radio, and we have to find things to talk about. So when a former...

LYDIARight.

NNAMDI...president says something like that, we like to talk about it and hear what other people have to say about it. I'm trying to make a living here.

LYDIAWell, I...

NNAMDIDo you understand that?

LYDIANo, I know, I know, I know. This is a great discussion, and I'm just making a comment that for -- to me, this just -- it's just so natural that anyone, any person who could run this country and be a great president, could become a president, whether he is single, married or gay or lesbian. It doesn't matter as long as he or she does her job or his job.

NNAMDIAnd, as I said, that is a noble sentiment, Lydia.

LYDIARight.

NNAMDIAnd I was just joking with you for a little bit there, but thank you very much for your call. We move on to Boris in Forth Meade, Md. Boris, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

BORISHi, Kojo. I'm an active duty service member here in Maryland, and I just think that this whole Don't Ask, Don't Tell policy is not the best precedent. I mean, where is it going to end? Are they going to have cross-gender? What about -- there's a lot of social things that happen in the military, family functions. And I don't think it would be, you know, appropriate for someone that comes dressed up as a woman or -- I don't know how they function exactly, but do you see my point?

NNAMDII hear your point. I'm not quite sure that I see your point. What difference do you think it would make if there's a family function in a military environment and somebody comes dressed up as a woman or as a man, for that matter?

BORISWell, you see, soldiers have to spend years at a time in close quarters...

NNAMDIYes.

BORIS...living in really bad conditions, you know. And it's really -- it comes out to an issue of, you know, when are they going to -- how they going to segregate these people out if they need their own facilities for showering or something like that? I just (unintelligible) logistical problems (unintelligible).

NNAMDIYou are an active duty service member. Do you think that there are people in your unit, in your regiment right now who are gay, whom -- with whom you might be sharing a shower from time to time?

BORISIf there are people that are gay, they're not talking about it, and nobody is asking them about it. The last caller that talked about people being outed in the military -- there's some people that you may suspect that's maybe homosexual or a lesbian, but no one is going around (unintelligible)

NNAMDINo, that's -- no, that's a very good answer. If you suspect somebody of being gay in your unit, would you get into the shower while that person is in the shower?

BORISNo. I wouldn't shy away from the person, personally, but there's a lot of people that would. And...

NNAMDIOkay.

BORIS...you know, right now, the current policy, I think, is working. No one is asking them about their sexual orientation. No one is...

NNAMDIWell, the people who are getting kicked out for disclosing the fact that they are gay don't seem to think that the policy is working.

BORISRight. And that the key there is that they disclosed it voluntarily. No one asked them about it. This is something that they decided. You know what? You know, they weren't living their lives the way that they wanted to. So, you know, I think that the current policy works.

NNAMDIOkay.

BORISIt's not like if I had tattoos all over my face, I wouldn't go and work in customer service somewhere. I would expect to be discriminated against in that field, but I wouldn't choose that as a profession either.

NNAMDIOkay. Thank you very much for your call. We move on to Marilyn in Northwest, Wash. Marilyn, your turn. You're on the air. Go ahead, please.

MARILYNWell, I'm blind and 72 years old, so I am highly unlikely to be serving in the military. But I personally think that it is about time that we stop -- we started looking at people's abilities to contribute to society and not being hung up because they happen to be different from us in some ways.

NNAMDIThank you very...

MARILYNThat's what I have to say.

NNAMDINo. But, Marilyn, and you expressed that sentiment very, very well. Thank you for sharing it with us.

MARILYNOkay.

NNAMDIMarilyn -- onto Peter in Chevy Chase, Md. Peter, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

PETERGreat. First of all, I think it's terrific that Ivory Coast has been put on the table. And also to emphasize the fact that African governments and others, including the U.N., are not just sitting by and letting the unacceptable situation of two presidents -- one officially elected and one who sort of seized power -- continues to seize power to stay in place. What I would like...

NNAMDII got to tell you, I've been reading these stories and saying to myself, does Mr. Gbagbo understand that this is the 21st century? Does he really think that in the 21st century, you can, "get away with something like this"? Apparently, he believes he can.

PETERWell, I -- you know, I think that's a very good question. And I think we're seeing a schism between old Africa and new Africa. And the fact -- and I think Ghana -- neighboring Ghana is a perfect example of where a duly elected president and -- or be it a very tight election took power, and the incumbent stepped aside. That's new Africa. I think what we're seeing in the Ivory Coast is old Africa, and Gbagbo has not yet gotten the message. But he's going to continue to need pressure in order to leave. And I thought that...

NNAMDIYes, and...

PETERI think it's been raised but needs to be pursued further, is imposing sanctions.

NNAMDIYes. I think that is likely to be next. And I'm afraid we can't go any farther because we're running out of time, Peter. The hope of imposing sanctions is before it has to be imposed in -- to Mr. Gbagbo in a more violent way that can affect people who live in the Ivory Coast. Thank you all for your calls. And thank you all for listening. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.