MR. KOJO NNAMDIFrom WAMU 88.5 at American University in Washington, welcome to "The Kojo Nnamdi Show," connecting your neighborhood with the world. In Detroit, in Des Moines and in Dallas, Washington, D.C. is seen as the stomping grounds of the president and Congress. But Washingtonians also know that this is a city of mayors, powerful leaders in their own right, each of whom has left his or her mark on the city's landscape. One mayor, Adrian Fenty, is about to step down, and another, Vincent Gray, is coming in so we thought it would be a good time to take stock of how Adrian Fenty shaped the look and feel of the city and discuss the role Vincent Gray will play in Washington's growth.

MR. KOJO NNAMDIJoining us to do that is architect Roger Lewis, author of the "Shaping the City" column in The Washington Post. And, of course, we'd like to know what you think, whether it's Fenty's legacy in building the city or the projects you'd like to see Vincent Gray focus on. Roger Lewis is also professor emeritus of architecture at the University of Maryland, College Park. Roger, happy holidays to you.

MR. ROGER LEWISSame to you. Thank you for having me on again.

NNAMDIAnd you are more than welcome. Let's start with Adrian Fenty. One of the more significant ways that he tried to shape the look of the city was not through the building of a specific building, but trying to get people out of their cars.

LEWISWell, that's one of the things that's been very controversial, but there's been a lot of discussion and letter writing and other discourse about that. I happen to think that they have pursued a wise policy, which is to try and make this...

NNAMDIFull disclosure, Roger is a bicycle rider.

LEWISThat's right, a bicycle rider. And I walk.

NNAMDIYeah.

LEWISAnd I use Metro and I drive a car. I have two cars. I'm not anti-car. I think that the -- what the Fenty administration has tried to do is to begin Washington -- get Washington on the road to becoming a city that is -- that's not only a city you can get around in, but where you can have choices of different transportation modes. We -- what we -- multimodal transportation is the term transportation for energies. So I think that intention is a very meritorious intention. I think where we ran into problems is, of course, in putting in bike lanes on certain streets that are not as wide as people might like, has been seen by drivers -- and I am included in that. I've driven down R Street many times and felt like I should -- I'm gonna get a ticket by --as I across the bicycle lane line. But I think that's one of the problems. A lot of people see the, for example, creation of bicycle lanes as an infringement on the automobile rights.

NNAMDIHow do you see the creation of bicycle lanes? You can call us at 800-433-8850. Do you see it as an infringement on automobile traffic and right of way? Or do you see it, frankly, as just the wave of the future? One of the things I think about, Roger, is that our sense of inconvenience by bike lanes on streets on which we are not used to seeing them, streets that may seem fairly narrow, might be representative of merely a period of adjustment for us as opposed to a bad judgment or a bad decision on the part of city leaders.

LEWISI think you hit the nail on the head. I think we're gonna go through a period -- I think we have to go through a period of adjustment. I think it's gonna be a -- first of all, I -- when I ride my bike on the street, I feel part of what I'm doing is training the drivers that are going by. Because we're in the city and most Americans said these are like this, we are drivers who are just not used to dealing with bicycles. And I'm very conscious when I'm on a bike and in the street, not only of the traffic going by me, but also of people that might be getting out of their cars after parking. So bicyclists also have to pay a lot of attention. But -- I mean, I -- my belief is that we have to coexist, but I think it's going to take a number of years of adjusting for this coexistence to reach its creation.

NNAMDIWe are a culture that has had such a long love affair with the automobile that the adjustment might take a little longer for us than it did in some other cultures around the world. But in the final analysis, how do you think policies involving street cars and bike lanes could affect, ultimately, the quality of life for all Washingtonians?

LEWISWell, I think, eventually -- and this was pointed out, I believe, this morning in an article in the paper in The Washington Post about the shift in use of these various modes. There's been a -- there has been a rise in the use of transit and a slight dip in the number of people who are coming into the city or driving around the city and in the suburbs in automobiles. I mean, I think that we only need to have very small percentage shifts, for example, in automobile trip generation, to greatly relieve congestion. I mean, I actually think the argument one has to consider is that if we can get just a small percentage of people to make some of their daily trips other than in an automobile, it will actually improve vehicular movement. It will be a boon to motorists. And I, again, am very -- I drive all the time. There's no question about that. I'm not giving up my car.

LEWISI also -- one other point I should make, there are a lot of people I know who feel that this -- there's some hidden agenda to this transportation policy of trying to get people out of their cars and then to walking and transit and on the bikes, that there's some anti-car movement. This is not an anti-car movement. This is about trying to give people choices.

NNAMDITry telling that to Jeff in Washington, D.C. Jeff, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

JEFFKojo, thanks for taking my call.

NNAMDIYou're welcome.

JEFFMy thought about this is that -- I think the first thing you said is great, that there should be choices. I think that the fact that our transportation director in this town lives in Logan Circle and is single, can walk to work, is wonderful. He doesn't really need as many choices as many other people in our city. I think a lot of people who have families, who have to, say, get their kids to daycare before they get to work or disabled people or, frankly, if people who are -- or lower income and don't live right next to the Friendship Heights Metro, they really don't have these choices. So they still have to get in a car, and, frankly, it's been very tough to live that kind of life the last couple of years in this city because they made it tougher and tougher to just be able to drive here and there.

NNAMDIRoger?

LEWISWell, I've been living in the city since 1967, and I don't -- I guess, I don't know whether it's where I drive or the fact that I'm able, because of my schedule, to drive at selected times. I mean, I don't find the congestion today that much more maddening than it was some years ago, but I do recognize that there's some places where we have probably -- we may have overstepped in constraining automobile movements. But I don't know that that's significant in the big picture. I mean, I think the fact -- for example, I often come downtown -- I live in Northwest, Washington. I often come downtown on Constitutional Avenue by coming through the road network to the west of Georgetown, and it's generally -- I can usually get down to the eastern part of downtown Washington from way up here in Northwest, Washington, in less than 15 minutes. I -- you know, I can still do that, and I used to be able to do that in the early '70s. I must say, I do pick my routes, and I suspect...

NNAMDINo K Street during rush hour?

LEWISYeah. I stay -- well, I've learned where -- what places to avoid. My -- I mean, we -- one of the things we also have to deal with is bad driver behavior. I mean, blocking the box, I mean, one of the worst things that I've noticed in...

NNAMDIOh, yeah.

LEWIS...rush hour...

NNAMDIMy pet peeve.

LEWIS...is how many drivers -- and there are a lot, by the way, a lot of discourteous drivers, thoughtless drivers in this town, in my opinion. They're the ones who run the red lights and who go into an intersection before they can get through it and which causes -- guarantees congestion.

NNAMDIYep. That is my pet peeve, but, Jeff, thank you very much for your call. You, too, can call us, 800-433-8850. One of the issues, Roger, that you think the next administration, the Gray administration, is going to need to address is parking. Why? And how should they address it?

LEWISWell, parking is always a hot issue. I think one of the things that I've learned about recently, mainly by reading -- I'm not involved in any of these projects, but I -- my understanding is there are some proposals afoot in which the amount of parking that normally would be required under the zoning ordinance, under the parking ratio regulations, that these are going to be relaxed in certain areas, primarily because these are projects in areas that are near or very close to transit or areas where the city feels people should be incentivized or encouraged to walk or ride bikes, use transit as well as drive.

LEWISNow, the problem is that there -- you have to look at this site by site. There are certain neighborhoods or certain sites, I should say, in neighborhoods we're not providing onsite parking. We're talking about onsite parking versus street parking or parking in garages offsite. There can be problems if you don't -- if you have a lot of people moving into an area and they have cars and you don't provide parking and there's a shortage of parking on the street or in public or private garages. You've got a problem.

LEWISSo I believe that what Gray's administration needs to do or any of the administration has to do is take a really microscopic look site by site, block by block at these places before they relax these parking requirements.

LEWISOn the other hand, again, if you're going to create a city in which there are choices of movement besides automobile, then it makes some sense to begin trying to reduce the parking requirements in those areas where it makes sense. The problem is it's a tough call. It's always a calculation. The numbers can always be massaged. It's always a difficult call.

NNAMDIGwen in Rockville would like to see more bike lanes. And Gwen asks, "Is there anything good to do when you're in a hybrid and a bicyclist or a pedestrian doesn't hear you?" As a hybrid driver myself, I have experienced this, and the only thing I would advise, Gwen, if you're driving a hybrid, is to wait because as the driver of the hybrid, you are keenly aware that, especially when you're either going slowly or stopped, your car makes absolutely no sound whatsoever. And so if there's a pedestrian or a bicyclist nearby, just wait until that individual has completed his or her maneuver before moving ahead, but you -- because you should assume that that person doesn't hear you and therefore -- and doesn't see you.

LEWISWell, they're talking to two hybrid drivers since I have a hybrid as well, that it's very quiet. It's a Prius, and it is very quiet. I do think bicyclists -- there's some rules of the road that bicyclists have to respect, and then I think that's part of it. If both automobile drivers and bicyclists will do what they're supposed to do, I think they can coexist.

NNAMDIThank you very much for your e-mail, Gwen. We move on to Henry in Washington, D.C. Henry, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

HENRYHi, thanks for taking my call, Kojo.

NNAMDIYou're welcome.

HENRYI just wanted to say that, you know, I think the increase in bike facilities in Washington, D.C. is a wonderful thing, and I don't really see any kind of war between drivers and bicyclists at all. I mean, in general, although the previous mayor, you know, Mayor Fenty, did a lot of work to increase the amount of facilities we have and cycle tracks and bike lanes, I mean, there's still a lot more automobile facilities on the road, you know, everywhere in Washington, D.C., Maryland and Virginia. And I don't really see how adding even more bike lanes is really going to hurt that at all.

HENRYYou know, and additionally, you know, just one quick comment about, you know, cyclists following the rules. Like, everyone needs to follow the rules and, you know, it's a tit-for-tat argument. It's really not worth getting into, you know, talking about cyclist running red lights all the time because, you know, automobile drivers are out there breaking the speed limit all the time. So it kind of just gets you in the weeds. But, you know, in general, I think more bike facilities and more equitable transportation system is a great thing. And I hope, you know, incoming Mayor...

NNAMDIWell, I think, Henry...

HENRY…Gray will do a lot.

NNAMDI...Roger and others have pointed out that we can reach agreement on several things. One is that we're trying to avoid too much congestion. Two is that we're trying to make this a more livable and therefore walkable city. And that suggests that you wanna slow down or you wanna cut down on the amount of vehicular automobile traffic that you have.

LEWISWell said. I think the -- I applaud the effort to encourage and enable, if you will, more bicycle ridership. And by the way, I can attest the fact that it is definitely on the upswing because over the last couple of years, I've noticed more and more places where you would lock up your bike, when you reach your destination, are full. I mean, I've noticed it's increasingly difficult for me to lock my bike up when -- I often go downtown on my bike. And there are more and more bikes parked, locked up, in this city than they were just a few years ago. It's definitely on the upswing.

LEWISObviously, there are many, many times when very few people are gonna be on their bikes, like today. And this is a day, for example, when, you know, the automobiles that are out on the road are going much more slowly. It took me longer to get here than usual and...

NNAMDILook, we panic. We -- once there's a snowfall coming to Washington, we panic. That's our response.

LEWISExactly. Exactly.

NNAMDIIt's the tradition. Thank you very much for your call, Henry. We're gonna take a short break. When we come back, you can join the conversation again, 800-433-8850. We're talking with Roger Lewis, the "Shaping the City" columnist for The Washington Post. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.

NNAMDIWelcome back. We're talking with Roger Lewis about mayors and the effect they can have on the look and feel of a city. Roger Lewis is the architect and he writes the "Shaping the City" column for The Washington Post. He's professor emeritus of architecture at the University of Maryland College Park. Roger, many mayors aspire to be associated with big buildings downtown. But Adrian Fenty may be most associated with neighborhood constructions, schools, libraries, recreation centers, that kind of thing.

LEWISExactly. I mean, I think that's one of his legacies. The last four years, there have been a number of projects that have been funded, designed and built. I've seen a couple of them. We have one very close by here, a new library. So I -- and I think that's very laudable. I think those are meaningful, useful additions to the city and I think they improve the city architecturally and functionally. I think the big challenge still is the schools. And there's -- you know, they're gonna build a new Dunbar High School. We just read about that.

NNAMDIYup.

LEWISAnd...

NNAMDIWhat do you think about that design?

LEWISI haven't really seen the design. I know that there was an article in The Post that was not terribly positive about the design. I haven't seen it, but I think the fact is that building a new school there and to replace what is -- as I understand, the school that was built anew, what, 40 years ago?

NNAMDIYup.

LEWISI think in 1970. This school, I think, should -- promises to be a very different kind of school. I know who the architects are. I know the kind of work they do. I know the school. In fact, the -- a much more open, transparent light field will be an addition to the city notwithstanding the article in The Washington Post. I have not seen this -- that particular design, but I've seen the budget. Or I've read about the budget. It's over $100 million as I understand.

NNAMDISpeaking of schools, here is Jeffrey in Adams Morgan. Jeffrey, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

JEFFREYOh, hi. Thanks for taking my call. First, I wanted to just thank Mr. Lewis for being a great friend of my father's when they taught at Maryland. And I also am concerned about Allen Lew's replacement. I wish Allen Lew the best as city administrator. He doesn't suffer fools or bureaucracies gladly, so that's gonna be all bureaucracy all the time. So I wish him the best. But I really hope that the new mayor finds a good replacement for him at D.C. schools. He was a very strong advocate for healthy schools, which are not only -- cost less to operate, but are better for the kids. And I hope that they continue to do whole school modernization, which they did at Cooke School and it's now lead gold and it's absolutely beautiful. They did a great job, and I just hope that they continue to do that for the school.

NNAMDIJeffrey, if you don't mind to -- if it inhibits your privacy, do you mind sharing your last name with us?

JEFFREYOh, it's Wilkes.

NNAMDIOh, okay. I wanted to make sure Roger knew who your dad was.

LEWISOh, well, I know Jeffrey's dad. His late dad was my first boss. When I came to Washington from Boston, I went to work for Wilkes & Faulkner. Joe Wilkes was my boss. I've known him for -- I knew him for a very, very long time. I think the -- it's funny, Jeffrey, that you brought that up because my wife and I were just talking about Allan Lew's reappointment. He -- she's worried. My wife is worried. She's a former ANC Commissioner so she knows about what -- some of this. She's worried that Lew won't be replaced by somebody as equally competent. He is an architect as I recollect. He is a very -- he's a real motivator. Let me use that diplomatically. And the -- she's concerned that whoever replaces him will have a very hard act to follow.

NNAMDIYeah, it's gonna be a hard act to follow because he delivers and he delivers on time on school renovation. Jeffrey, you're right. That's one of the appointments that I suspect people will be looking at very carefully that Vincent Gray makes. Thank you so much for your call. Roger, talk a little bit about one new building in particular, the Tenleytown Library, right around the corner, the corner of Wisconsin and Albemarle. What do you think about what's being done there or what's been done there?

LEWISWell, the building is...

NNAMDIThe design of the building.

LEWISThe building is almost completely constructed. I haven't been in it. I've gone by it many times because you work by -- and drive by anytime you're in the Tenleytown area. I think it's a -- it looks like it's a very nice building. I have no great complaints yet about the architecture. I haven't written about it or examined it. But I will say that I -- and I've harped on this some years back, that I still consider that corner a missed opportunity. The city originally intended to build a multi-use building there with the library as the civic community at the base, the kind of anchor with -- I think they were intending to build housing or apartments units above it, which being right next to a Metro station, made complete sense.

LEWISSo I still regret that it's a stand-alone building rather than a building that's part of a larger complex in which there could have been the library plus housing in this area that I think is, certainly, a great place to live. There've been some other -- I visited another library. In fact, I wrote an article about one of the libraries over in on the other side of the Anacostia River, which is, again, a very nice building. And these libraries are being built very differently than our traditional libraries. They're much more open. They are intended to be really community magnets where you could go in, not necessarily even to get a book, just to go sit and read or use a computer. And I see that happening in all of these new libraries.

NNAMDIOn to Allen on Wisconsin Avenue. Allen, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

ALLENYeah. The (word?) comments -- the first one who made the -- the earlier caller who was throwing up a red herring that is a fish that really stunk, about the fact that the implementation of public transportation and multimodal systems is somehow denigrating the neighborhoods that are lower income. It is exactly the opposite. Those are the people who need the public transportation, who need the ability to get to and from work without having to take a car. I moved a company from a Boston suburb, Lawrence, Mass., which Roger will know, a very, very ethnic population. I had 180 employees of which three-quarters of them were unskilled labor.

ALLENAnd when we had to relocate our factory, we realized that if we were gonna move a mile and a half away, we could move anywhere in the United States we wanted to because the workforce could not follow us. If they didn't, they would not be able to get to work. The second thing is that since moving to Washington, D.C., here you're talking about the rudeness of bicyclists and so forth. That's common everywhere. The really rude segment of transportation up here that I've seen are cab drivers. They just seem to think that none of the rules apply to them, and they have a sense of entitlement to be able to drive at whatever speed and whichever semi lane that they decide to be in. And those are just...

NNAMDIAllow me to have Roger respond. You've just alienated one half of our listening audience. We'll probably be getting a lot of angry calls from taxi drivers very shortly. Roger.

LEWISWhat I have to share his opinion about taxi drivers. There are an awful lot of them who I think need to take driving -- go to driving school. Today's -- there's an article in today's Washington Post that -- with diagrams of the region that explicitly address what he's talking about, which is where -- what parts of the Metro area have the people most using transit versus driving single occupancy automobiles. And I think one of our problems is, again, the problem of an unequal distribution of services or of transit and alternative services. So there are whole areas of the metro region.

LEWISOnce you get beyond talking about the District of Columbia, once you start talking about Metropolitan Washington, which, I think, is -- we need to spend more and more time recognizing that this is really a regional city that -- with 5 million people and we do have great imbalances and access to transits. So there are whole swaths, huge areas -- Loudon County -- not very, almost no one in Loudon County uses transit. And that was it -- that's in today's Washington Post. You can see the map and read the story. And whereas people who live where Kojo and I do, although I'm right next to him (word?) but we can use the transit system.

NNAMDIYep.

LEWISI live a three-minute walk from a bus stop. I live a seven-minute drive from a Metro station. I could actually bike or walk there if I wanted to. We have those choices. A lot of people have no choice.

NNAMDIYou can join this conversation too. It's your choice, 800-433-8850. We're talking with architect Roger Lewis about the impacts mayors can have on the look and feel of a city as Mayor Adrian Fenty prepares to make his exit and Mayor-elect Vince Gray prepares to make his entrance. Roger, Adrian Fenty came in as mayor as the economy was tanking and that has a real impact on what you can get it done in terms of development and new projects. Are there any areas where you think he could have had more success if the economy had been better?

LEWISOh, that's a tough one. I'm not an expert on the fiscal affairs of the District of Columbia. I do -- I know that there are a number of areas that have benefited greatly from the city's fiscal intervention. Columbia Heights comes to mind, which is where the Williams administration that had a lot to do with...

NNAMDIYep.

LEWIS...making that happen. There are efforts before this, I think many listeners know, to redo -- do a complete makeover of the Southwest Waterfront, the area up around New York Avenue and Florida Avenue, just to the east of Gallaudet campus and near...

NNAMDIHow about the area around National Stadium? That's an area on which, if there is not a national's game being played, if I come down M Street in that area, it's amazing. I see all of these new buildings and no people.

LEWISWell, it's on hold. (laugh) The Southeast Federal Center, that whole area, which has been beneficiary of a lot of investment, really stalled in the last three or four years because of the financial situation in the United States and locally. So I look at that as a work in progress. It's on hold. I believe that once the economy gets a little healthier, activity will continue, investment will continue. There will be more retail and eateries and other things. I would say that in six, seven, eight years, it will be quite different than it is now.

NNAMDIBack to the telephones. Here is Mark in Bethesda, Md. Mark, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

MARKHi, Kojo. I was -- I've been a resident for a number of years now. And I'm just wondering if anyone understood why there isn't better transit between Baltimore and Washington? I live in Bethesda and commute to Baltimore. And just had a really hot -- feel like you have to be in a car because there's no good train option.

NNAMDIMARC train doesn't work for you?

MARKWell, the MARC train has variable scheduling. And, you know, when it's hot outside, they don't run a full schedule because the tracks warp. And it just -- it doesn't run early enough or long enough.

NNAMDIRoger?

LEWISWell, I confess. I go to Baltimore regularly and I drive every time I go, mainly because it's the quickest way. I mean, I do it because it's convenient and saves time. I can't answer the question. I don't know why there isn't better service between the two cities in terms of rail transportation. I know that you can get between these two cities by rail. I know there are some people who do, who commute regularly by rail. As to whether it can be improved, I'm sure it can be improved. But, of course, that's part of a bigger picture, which is the whole Northeast corridor. I mean, what has been talked about for decades is creating a whole, you know, a new rail system between here and Boston that would include Baltimore. That -- I just don't -- I don't know enough about the details of the MARC rail infrastructure and the condition of the tracks and so forth to share much more than I've already said.

NNAMDIMark, thank you very much for your call. What do you think are going to be the more challenging, maybe even the more controversial projects that a Gray administration is going to have to deal with?

LEWISWell, we've already named the couple of them. I think the -- I think what is most of concern of citizens are the attempts to either retrofit or change densities and uses in areas adjacent to residential neighborhoods, existing neighborhoods, along these various corridors, such as Wisconsin Avenue. I think there are some that are gonna be less controversial. I think redevelopment along the New York Avenue corridor will be less problematic or less politically controversial than some other places.

NNAMDIIn my neighborhood, Walter Reed, I'm expecting that development to be fairly controversial.

LEWISWell, I think that's one. They're trying to satisfy everybody with that -- with the preliminary master plan for that, which I haven't studied. But again, I've seen reports on it. I'm sure that before that spade gets thrust under the ground that there will some differences of opinion about how that should develop. I think the thing we have to remember in the District of Columbia, because we're talking about what mayors can do is -- we don't a whole lot of undeveloped properties left to be developed. There's also the whole issue of what's going on over at St. Elizabeth's, where the federal government has taken half of the campus, the Westside for homeland security, creating this enclave that is -- federal enclave versus the other side of Martin Luther King Avenue, which is going to be a district properly.

NNAMDIWe're interested in hearing your opinion. Where would you like to see Vincent Gray focus when it comes to the city's development? Are there specific neighborhoods where he should put his attention? 800-433-8850. New York Avenue, New York Gallaudet, Georgia Avenue, Florida Avenue, what do you think? 800-433-8850 or you can go to our website, kojoshow.org, join the conversation there. Send us a tweet @kojoshow or e-mail to kojo@wamu.org. Here is Kristen on Capitol Hill. Kristen, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

KRISTENOh, hi. I'm a woman in my 50s who bicycles and walks. And I'd like to point out that those of us who are walking to the grocery store are leaving a parking place for people who need to buy for an entire family and bring their car. It's not really war between bicyclists and automobile drivers. The shared bicycles, they're really popular here in Capitol Hill. I'm hoping that the Gray administration will understand that one of the most popular routes for shared bicycles is going to the grocery store, and consider the shared bicycle program to some of the poorer neighborhoods.

NNAMDIThank you very much for your call. You can see the shared bicycle program operating there at large supermarkets and whatever, maybe big-box stores, come to those neighborhoods?

KRISTENWell, you know, shopping is a major problem if you're a bus patron, and especially as you get a little older and don't want to carry heavy items. And that's a major factor in quality of life for people in a poor neighborhood.

NNAMDIOkay, thank you very much for your call. We're gonna take a short break. When we come back, we'll continue our conversation with Roger Lewis about development and how mayors in the city, in particular the city of Washington, D.C., impact development, the look and feel of the city. We're still taking your calls, though, 800-433-8850. Is there a particular building, park, school or other facility in your neighborhood that you would like to see spruced up? 800-433-8850. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.

NNAMDIWe're talking about the impact mayors can have on the look, the feel of a city with architect Roger Lewis. He writes the "Shaping the City" column for The Washington Post. He's also professor emeritus of architecture at the University of Maryland College Park. Roger, realistically, how much power does the mayor have when it comes to development in a city like this one where so much of the land is owned by the federal government?

LEWISYou know, this is -- mayors have less control than, I think, we perhaps believe they have because not only do they -- does the city not own that much of the property of the city, but Washington -- and it's a unique case. It is a place where a lot of the property of the city is either federally owned or it's privately owned. The way cities -- this is not unique to Washington. The way cities primarily influence development in the look of the city is through their fiscal policy and how they use their power of the purse to direct investment or encourage investment or through tax abatement or other tax increment financing to make things happen in places where they want them to happen. So they can -- they have -- they can do a lot to channel or determine the direction of growth. As to how things actually look, that's much more in the hands of the specific -- the team doing the development.

LEWISSo for example the -- any individual building or even a streetscape is much more determined by the people that are implementing that makeover or that new project than the mayor or the councilor. I think the other thing that people have to remember is that a lot of the things that happened in the city are determined by existing law, zoning ordinances in particular. Zoning has a tremendous impact on how things are done.

NNAMDIWhere does that leave citizens? You look at a collaboration like (word?) the department -- (word?) the Department of Homeland Security or what's likely to happen at Walter Reed, and you have a collaboration between the federal government and the city developers involved. What impact can citizen input have on how that development ultimately takes shape?

LEWISWell, they can have a lot of impact. I mean, part of it is that there is a process under, again, our regulatory regime here in the city, which involves the citizens. I mean, there are hearings. There are other opportunities for the citizens to be heard and for citizens to express themselves, both institutionally and individually. The problem arises that when the government makes a decision that is not in agreement with what you, Mr. Citizen or Ms. Citizen, thinks is the right thing. There are two ways to look at that decision.

LEWISThey've considered all of the options and made a decision, including looking at your recommendation or your feelings. Or, as is too often the case, you can think they pay no attention to me. They're ignoring me. They're not taking me into account. They're dissing me. I'm gonna be mad about this. I think most -- certainly in Washington, D.C., I do think the mayors and councils have been pretty attentive of what -- tentative to what citizens feel. The Advisory Neighborhood Commissions have a lot of influence. I think it's a mistake to assume that the mayor and council and other officials are simply ignoring citizen input. But you have to be prepared, as a citizen, for the decisions sometimes to be made that you don't agree with.

NNAMDIHow about developer input? How does that compare to citizen input in terms of the final shape?

LEWISWell, of course, developers are the ones who actually undertake the implementation of specific projects, build the buildings. And they, as I have always pointed out -- I've written about this many times. I've been telling students this for decades. Most developers, with very few exceptions, are simply playing by the rules that the public sector, that the citizens and through their elected officials, have established.

LEWISSo when -- for example, when I developed -- the house I live in is in a complex of houses. When I developed it, as well as serving as the architect, you know, I went in. I looked at the rules. I followed the rules. I didn't have to have a hearing. I built the project. I think most developers do that. They -- what happens is, occasionally, because zoning is often out of date or obsolete or has some constraints that are the result of it having been established -- the rule was established decades ago -- we'll come to the city, come to the mayor and council and say, you know, I'd really like to change this. I'd like this use instead of that use or to change uses or modify the densities or let you give me some exceptions. They have to make that case. They sometimes succeed in making the case. And again, most of the time, the mayors and councils and agencies that hear these cases try and make fair decisions based on the evidence.

NNAMDIOn to Sylvia in Washington, D.C. Sylvia, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

SYLVIAThanks, Kojo, and I'm glad to be on the program. I am a resident of Ward 7 and the Deanwood neighborhood and wanted to bring up a point about preservation and looking at the term conservation districts that's starting to crop up. And I haven't gotten a real good understanding of what a conservation district is and will like to find out how that could work in emerging neighborhoods...

NNAMDILike Deanwood.

SYLVIA...like Deanwood, have a lot of historic value from our architects who are African-Americans and from craftsmen and that sort of thing.

NNAMDIAnd you're interested in what conservation what?

SYLVIAThey're called conservation districts.

NNAMDIWhat's a conservation district, Roger?

LEWISWell, I'm assuming -- actually, that's a term I'm not familiar with.

NNAMDIIt probably has to do with historic preservation.

LEWISYeah. I think it -- I think that's what she's referring to, is that these are the areas of the city where the public policy is to protect the historic resources of that district, which can be buildings. It can be trees. It can be almost anything physical that can -- that is contributory, what they talk about contributing to the historic value or the cultural value of an area. And that requires, again -- somebody has to identify what those assets are.

NNAMDIThank you very much for your call, Sylvia. And we're on now to Al in Washington, D.C. Hi, Al.

ALHello. How are you?

NNAMDII'm well. Al, go ahead.

ALI'm wondering if it would make sense -- I wonder if it would make sense, the new administration will look into refueling stations for electric cars.

NNAMDIThat's funny. I was just reading about that in the newspapers recently and seeing that if they can have more refueling stations, then we could have a lot more electric cars. What do you think, Roger? Refueling...

LEWISYeah. Well, that -- my -- I couldn't agree more. I mean, I think -- my recollection is also that there's a plan -- there has been a proposal put forth -- I don't know what the status of it is -- to -- by Fenty to build something like 200 -- some large number of charging stations in the city. I think this is going to be slow because...

NNAMDII think so.

LEWIS...because the price tags of these cars...

NNAMDIYeah.

LEWIS...I'm just astounded at how expensive a Chevy Volt is gonna cost. I -- I mean, I paid, I think, $22,000 for the Prius. I thought that was high. I don't know who's gonna go out and buy the Volt for $40,000. There will be some sold, but I don't know that it will justify 200 electric charging stations.

NNAMDIEspecially if they're only getting, like, 80 miles between charges, from what I've been reading. That's not quite the same as how much you get when your gas tank is full. You'll be charging a lot more regularly. And I think the inconvenience of that, in the short-term, anyway, is gonna serve as a deterrent for a lot of people. What do you think, Al?

ALYeah. I think also if you think about, you know, getting caught in traffic. You know, you live in Rockville, you're caught in a traffic jam and you run out of -- you know, you run out of energy, you know.

LEWISWell, that -- actually, what happens is, as you -- of course, if you're just sitting there, not -- you don't use any energy. What these -- the engineering of these hybrids and these electric cars, as I understand it, just -- it shuts it down...

NNAMDIYup.

LEWIS...so you don't use up any energy.

NNAMDIThank you very much for your call, Al. On to Tony on Capitol Hill in D.C. Tony, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

TONYHi, Kojo.

NNAMDIHi, Tony.

TONYHey. I think one of the great area for redevelopment would be the RFK Stadium site. I mean, it's -- and Metro is surrounded by acres and acres of parking lots right on the waterfront.

NNAMDIThey're waiting for the owner of the Redskins to bring the team back. Don't you get about this. No, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. (laugh)

TONYBut why? Why would -- I'm sorry because they only play, like, you know, five or six times a year.

NNAMDIEight times a year at home, actually. Here is Roger.

LEWISYeah. There is a master plan. There's a quite ambitious master plan for the RFK Stadium area, which I have seen. I don't remember the details, but that has been put forth. And I don't know the status of it as of today, but there is very ambitious plans for that whole area.

NNAMDIAnd that's something that Vincent Gray will probably have to address at some point during the course of his administration. Tony, thank you for your call. You, too, can call us at 800-433-8850. Here is Janice in Mount Rainier. Janice, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

JANICEYeah. I have a question about the number of stoplights on Capitol Hill and why they're supposedly -- or this is what I was told, that they can't put in more stoplights. There are some intersections on Constitution Avenue and Maryland Avenue where suburban drivers use it like a speedway. And although there are intersections that supposedly you can cross and there are signs posted to yield to pedestrians, they never do yield to pedestrians. So why can't more stoplights be put into this -- to be put on the city street?

NNAMDIRoger, do you know? Do you know?

LEWISWell, I don't have -- I don't know why any particular intersection is not signalized, as we say. I certainly agree with you that there's a need at a number of intersections in Metro Washington to rethink the control of vehicles moving. I think probably, like so many things, it gets down to money. I mean, I suspect that there are -- there, again, may be a master plan in DDOT's drawer that shows a perspective future signalization -- intersection signalizations. But I -- if they haven't been done, it's probably because of money.

NNAMDIJanice, thank you for your call. Here's a good one. We got a tweet from befrugal who says, "I want Mr. Gray to focus on the Fort Totten area. There are no real stores, yet it has two major train lanes and many bus routes." Good place.

LEWISWell, Fort Totten, I drove by it for 38 years on my way to College Park -- to and from College Park. Anyone who's been there recently knows that they've -- that there's a whole lot going on there.

NNAMDIYes.

LEWISThere's -- they have torn up the Riggs Road. There's a huge reconstruction, I believe it's both utility work and roadwork.

NNAMDITraffic being diverted.

LEWISAnd I -- that's another area. I can't even remember all these areas. Actually, now that we talk about it, Kojo, there are a lot of...

NNAMDI(unintelligible)

LEWIS...this is another area which is undergoing redevelopment. There is a large amount of real estate there that is going to be totally redeveloped, I mean, with new uses and densities and much more housing and cultural facilities and retail facilities there. You know, that's -- that area is going to be quite different in five years, in my opinion.

NNAMDIAnother area Nasser wants to talk about. Nasser, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

NASSERYes. Thank you, Kojo. I just wanted to ask -- I live in northeast on -- right off the Rhode Island, Langdon Park area. And I'm wondering if there's going to be any development, you know, retail shops opening on that part of Rhode Island. Thank you.

NNAMDIWhat part is Langdon Park? Rhode Island near what?

NASSERIt's roughly 20th and Rhode Island.

NNAMDIThat's what I was thinking. 20th and going up, right?

NASSERYes. That's right.

NNAMDIAll the way to Eastern Avenue?

NASSERYes.

NNAMDIYeah, that area. Yep, there's a lot of space in that area, Roger.

LEWISYeah, I don't know too much about that. I think one of the things that the Gray administration and, for that matter, any administration needs to do now is -- in addition to their large area or subarea master plans, generally the way planners operate here and other areas is they take a sub district, but that's usually a large area compared to a single block, and they make a plan for it. Probably what's going to need to happen the next 10, 15, 20 years is studies of much smaller areas of the city. When I say smaller areas, you're looking at a particular block or two or three of a street or three or four blocks that happen to be unique in some way, more of a shotgun -- excuse me -- riffle approach than a shotgun approach.

NNAMDILet's switch gears for a moment. We'd like to do a show with you in the New Year about different architectural philosophies. And to give a taste of that, tell us about the recent article you wrote about the architect who designed Dulles Airport.

LEWISOh, that's the piece about Eero Saarinen...

NNAMDIYup.

LEWIS...which was motivated both by my seeing an exhibit of -- about him at the Finnish Embassy, and also a few days later, I went to Dulles Airport to fly to Paris. And Eero Saarinen is one of the great modern architects of the 20th century. He was responsible, as a lot of listeners may know, for the design of Dulles Airport. He designed the TWA Terminal at -- what was then, I guess, the JFK Airport. It was -- I think it was called Idlewild those days.

NNAMDIYep.

LEWISThat's an airport, some people who've seen pictures of it, looks a lot like a bird in flight. He designed the arch that sits on the edge of the Mississippi River in St. Louis. People have seen pictures of that. He was unusual in that he was not an architecture -- an architect with a signature style. He did not do -- he was not formulaic. He -- you know, we can talk about architects like Frank Gehry or Richard Meier, whose work is very identifiable wherever it is no matter what it is.

NNAMDIYou call Saarinen an architectural chameleon.

LEWISYeah. He was very, very much willing to start over with every project in terms of the language and the materials and the kind of formal vocabulary with the way he speak.

NNAMDIMore about that next year. Roger Lewis will be rejoining us next year. He is the "Shaping the City" columnist for The Washington Post and professor emeritus of architecture at the University of Maryland, College Park. Roger, happy holidays, happy new year once again.

LEWISSame to you. Thank you and to our listeners.

NNAMDIAnd thank you all for listening. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.