MR. KOJO NNAMDIWhat comes to mind when I say, this is your brain, and this is your brain on drugs? For most Americans, the sentence automatically calls up an image of two eggs in a frying pan. It's one of the iconic public service campaigns of the past few decades. You probably remember other classics like, Only You Can Prevent Forest Fires and Friends Don't Let Friends Drive Drunk. Memorable? Yes. Cutting edge? Not really. Each slogan was created by the Ad Council, a group that first pioneered the idea of giving free television time to messages that support and further the public good almost 70 years ago.

MR. KOJO NNAMDIToday, each slogan lives on as part of our pop culture, and new ones are being created even as we speak. But unlike older PSAs, you won't see them only on late night television, and you may not recognize them as they stray from the usual social, health and personal safety messages we're used to. To help us understand how public messages are changing in the 21st century, we've invited Kathy Crosby, senior vice president and group campaign director with the Ad Council that produces and distributes PSAs nationally. Kathy, thank you for joining us.

MS. KATHY CROSBYThank you very much for having me.

NNAMDIAlong with Kathy, joining us in studio is Chuck Husak. He is creative director for August, Lang & Husak, Incorporated That's an advertising agency based in Bethesda, Md. Chuck, thank you for joining us.

MR. CHUCK HUSAKThanks, Kojo. Great to be here.

NNAMDIKathy, we mentioned the Ad Council dates back about 70 years, right, and started as a way to build support for the military in 1941? Tell us a little bit about that.

CROSBYYes, correct. We were actually asked by the president at the time to marshal the forces of the media community, as well as the advertising community, to bring women into the work force. So you might remember Rosie the Riveter, one of the most iconic campaigns that actually encouraged women to take a very progressive role in working in the environment. We also worked on Victory Gardens and Loose Lips Sink Ships. And at the time, it was determined after the war that social marketing really did have a huge role and that you could apply the power of persuasive communications to really help people to think and act differently. So, obviously, we've stayed the course over the last 70 years.

NNAMDISo the City Paper columnist Loose Lips really owes his title to an ad campaign 70 years ago?

CROSBYYes, sir.

NNAMDIHow did it come to be that television and radio stations started providing free time for the announcements?

CROSBYWell, that was part of what we did, is we worked with the media community, who understood the value of serving up messages in the public interest or the public good. And for all of these years, there's an understanding that there's a tremendous value in helping people to think and act differently to change the social norm, and so media companies have very graciously been donating time and space in television and radio and print for all of these past years.

NNAMDIChuck, what makes something appropriate content for a public service ad? Who determines what messages are appropriate and what are not?

HUSAKWell, a PSA has to deal with a message of intrinsic public good, and that can be a safety message. It can be a health message. It can be emergency advice. But nobody's trying to sell cat food or laundry soap through PSAs. These have to be messages that do some good out in the community, and the public service director or program director at any given station would be the person to really determine whether or not a PSA gets on the air in the first place.

NNAMDIWhether you're serious or hokey or just plain memorable, share your favorite memory of public service announcements. Call us at 800-433-8850. That's 800-433-8850. Or go to our website, kojoshow.org. Join the conversation there. Chuck, we've all seen ads encouraging us to donate money for a good cause, like supporting orphan children or funding breast cancer research. But you point out that these do not necessarily qualify as PSAs. Why not?

HUSAKWell, there are some rules. You're not allowed to drum up business with the PSA. It's got to be, again, a very intrinsic sort of message for public good. And as such, a corporation can't really be the logo at the end of the spot. It has to be produced and funded by a non-profit organization. And as soon as you ask for money, that's considered to be too commercial a message. Now, some of the rules are becoming a little more lax than they used to be, and there are some ways around it. You can ask for support. You can ask for volunteers. You can ask to be -- you know, if you want to be involved, here's how to do it. But you can't say, to donate, call this phone number. That's pretty much a tie breaker and would kill your chances.

NNAMDIWe're talking about advertising for the public good with Chuck Husak. He is creative director for August, Lang & Husak Incorporated, an advertising agency based in Bethesda, Md. And Kathy Crosby, senior vice president and group campaign director for the Ad Council that produces and distributes PSAs nationally. Inviting your calls at 800-433-8850. Are you comfortable with PSAs as they are? Or do you have some sense of discomfort about a certain type of PSA? 800-433-8850. Kathy, I mention discomfort because I remember some controversy about 10 years ago when in the wake of the terrorist attacks of 9/11, the Ad Council ran ads called Campaigns for Freedom, which the council said was meant to help the country fight the war on terrorism. And some apparently viewed that campaign not so much as PSAs. They claimed that was propaganda.

CROSBYMm hmm. Yeah, at that time, we felt that there was a tremendous sense of worry about our neighbors. And that campaign was meant to say that no matter the color of your skin, no matter the walk of your life, that we are all together, Americans, and that we need to band together as Americans to overcome any challenging forces that might be coming. But you're right. There were some concerns that it was really a propaganda message.

NNAMDITalk us through the creation of one of your PSAs, both of you. Starting with you Chuck, from soup to nuts, so to speak, does someone bring the idea to you? Or do you generate these ideas internally?

HUSAKWell, it happens a little different with us -- a little differently with us than it would with Kathy because we would deal directly with the producer or the originator of a PSA. And we, as an agency, get called in to help determine what the message would be that's in line with the organization's mission statement. And when we settle on a topic that seems to be valuable and have this intrinsic public good that I spoke about before, it then becomes incumbent on the agency to try to find a way to make this message important and to get through into people's heads.

HUSAKI mention this phenomenon called compassion fatigue, and it's -- it describes, I think, what a lot of viewers are faced with when they see starving kids and displaced homeless people and, you know, tsunami victims, earthquake victims, epidemics and so forth. Who gets my money? Who gets my support? Where do -- well, you know, what should I pay attention to here? It's all very worthy. And at that point, it just is so crucial for the agency to find a way to craft this message in a way that gets through to people that, perhaps, they haven't seen the message before.

NNAMDIWhat kind of research goes into this, Kathy? And does the research usually come first or the concept comes first?

CROSBYThe research definitely comes first. How the Ad Council develops all of our campaigns is first, there must be a problem that needs to be solved. And so we work with either federal agencies or with not-for-profits like Save the Children, and everything we do is steeped with research. So, for instance, we worked recently with Save the Children. On one of our first ever global campaigns to affect children across the seas, and the goal is to help Americans understand that children are dying needlessly through completely preventable deaths.

CROSBYAnd in order to do that, we had to do comprehensive research to understand the American mindset. What are we currently thinking about, why these children are dying of preventable diseases? And is there a belief that I can sit here and make a difference for a child in Ethiopia? And so through the research, we understand what the barriers are to taking action. And we understand via insights how to craft a persuasive message to make Americans actually do something. So in the case of Save the Children, as Chuck mentioned earlier, you know, people are used to seeing children who are starving with the flies around them with the distended stomachs.

CROSBYWe really created a paradigm shift, and we focused in on the one person abroad, the local health care worker who's been trained in low-cost health interventions to save these children. And what we're saying to Americans is, you're only one person away from saving countless children. And if you support a local health care worker, they are the ones on the ground who are going to be saving these children. So we try to create a paradigm shift in creating something that's different than the way that people currently think about children dying needless deaths across the seas.

NNAMDIWe also talked with Emily Brew, creative director for the Nike Foundation, which is a non-profit focused on improving the lives of young girls in under-developed countries about this creative process. Here's what she had to say.

MS. EMILY BREWThe approach that we took for both of these pieces was to go with a highly graphical text style. And so, in fact, the first Girl Effect video was only words, and it took you through the story of what would happen if you first imagined a girl in poverty but then reimagined her life differently. And what was interesting about that was we, on purpose, didn't show pictures of girls. And that was intentional, in that it's hard to get people to connect with an issue far away, of course. But when we -- in a way, when you put a picture in front of somebody, you already make that decision for them by asking people to imagine what a girl in poverty's life is like, and you say that in words. The viewer creates that picture inside of their own head, and so already they've made a close connection to this issue that's really far away from them.

BREWSo we actually -- so not only it -- did it allow a viewer to get into the story right away, because they're bringing a piece of themselves to it, but it allowed us to create an experience that was quite unusual, quite unlike anybody had seen before in terms of talking about these issues. And then with the second Girl Effect piece, "The Clock is Ticking," we did introduce sort of an iconic silhouette of a girl because that allowed -- that gave us the opportunity to get more specific about the story of a girl's life and the things that might happen to her and how you might change those. But we've absolutely found that the abstraction, the visual abstraction of the issue, in a way -- surprisingly -- has kind of opened it up for people to insert themselves and their own experiences into it and actually connect with it faster than they might otherwise.

NNAMDII'd be interested in hearing both of you talk about that Girl Effect piece. First, you, Kathy Crosby.

CROSBYYeah, one, I thought it was phenomenal. It makes use of a digital medium now and become very viral, and I agree exactly with what she was saying. We were allowed to understand the possibilities by not seeing the barriers of what that girl faces every day when she is forced to walk five to 10 miles a day to bring water home, and that's really her only job. That's really her only opportunity, so I think that the Girl Effect -- my hope is that it will have an amazing effect on helping people to understand that all is not lost. All is not hopeless, that they just need a little bit of an opportunity and a little bit of help, and then amazing things can happen. So I am very supportive of their campaign.

NNAMDIAnd in fact, Chuck, too many -- seeing too many -- what some people would call pity-based PSAs have led to what psychologists call compassion fatigue. How do you convey the seriousness of a problem and avoid scaring off the viewer? Because that's what Girl Effect seems to do fairly effectively.

HUSAKYeah, well, you know, it is advertising, and that means you have to invoke some level of human insight, human understanding to try to get your message across. We were involved with a campaign a few years back that was all about the activity levels that kids had to do today in order to build their bone health starting in adolescence. But that spot didn't open by telling people about new research and about the window of opportunity and so forth. I mean, that would have been pretty much a yawn. The idea was that we followed a chunky little kid through a day when he was pretty much just sitting in one place, doing a bunch of things, and the premise of the spot was, ever notice today how many things kids can do without actually moving?

NNAMDIMm hmm.

HUSAKAnd, I mean, that's not a lecture. That's engaging. Suddenly, you're having a conversation with a parent. And find me a parent today who doesn't believe that they had it tougher when they were kids in terms of walking to school and garage doors and all that sort of thing. So that's the responsibly, I think, a public service announcement creative director or a creative department has to bring to the table in order to get these messages across.

NNAMDIAnd you can see that ad at our website kojoshow.org along with the Girl Effect ads -- kojoshow.org, our website. You can also join the conversation there. Or you can call us at 800-433-8850. Let's go to Justin in Annandale, Va. Justin, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

JUSTINThank you. I really appreciate the show and the work that the Ad Council does in all of the public service announcements. And my question is, would the Ad Council consider a public service announcement that encourages people to exercise more and eat more fruits and vegetables? I think it would help with the obesity...

CROSBYMm hmm.

JUSTIN...and diabetes epidemic. Thank you.

BREWRight. Well, Justin, it's amazing that you mention that because we are actually embarking on a multifaceted program with the First Lady specifically about -- it's called Let's Move. And it will go to letsmove.gov, but the point is we recognize that there is a tremendous amount that needs to happen for children to get more exercise, to eat healthier foods. And we've developed a whole suite of messages to kind of help us get that message out there and encourage more children to live healthier lifestyles. And adults play a key role because adults were the ones that are buying the food, making the food. And oftentimes, children are so over-scheduled now that they don't really have time to get out and play an hour a day. And so we're trying to focus in on some of the major barriers and problems to help us overcome.

NNAMDIJustin, thank you very much for your call. You, too, can call us, 800-433-8850. Texting while driving may be the latest public message we're all hearing about. What other issue would you -- like Justin's -- like to see a message about? 800-433-8850 or you can send us an e-mail to kojo@wamu.org. Or you can go to our website, kojoshow.org. Join the conversation there, or send us a tweet, @kojoshow. How different, Chuck, is the creative process from how you do a typical commercial message? Are you looking to emphasize different things?

HUSAKWell, yes. I think PSAs are -- what I call -- the Olympics of advertising because you're dealing with issues that can help people live longer. These are life and death issues, and you're not trying to get people to remember a logo or a brand name or, you know, to try a product at the end of which is a pretty low stakes proposition. You're trying to get someone to change their behavior or pay attention to something that they shouldn't do. This is a big challenge, and it really calls for a whole other level of insight than, I think, you would try to bring if, you know, you were selling soup.

NNAMDIThe Olympics of advertising -- I really like that phrase. It's one of the things we talked with Emily Brew about. As we mentioned earlier, Emily Brew is creative director for the Nike Foundation, which is focused on improving the lives of young girls in underdeveloped countries. It's a non-profit, and she talked a little bit about how her advertising background helped her in this Olympics of advertising.

BREWI think the luxury maybe of spending so much -- so many years of my life in more of a commercial marketing place is that, you know, we learned how to -- I learned how to tell stories in a really quick and short way, very focused. That is typically hard for non-profit communications to do because it is that, I think, more typically in non-profit communications, there is an intention to be incredibly accurate and to tell the whole story. And, I think, maybe from the background that I brought to it, it was easier for me to say, how do we tell the sharpest point of the story so that people can understand the beginning of the message and they get interested in the message and they draw closer to the message?

BREWAnd then you have other conversations that allow them to go deeper, whether it's online or in person or in a panel or in a conversation, that then allow them to see all parts of the story. So, yeah, I would say that's the main difference. And I'm actually kind of grateful for the experience I have of having had to tell stories in such a short way because that was very good discipline for trying to tell a story as complicated as this.

NNAMDIThat's Emily Brew, creative director for the Nike Foundation. Chuck Husak, you wanted to add?

HUSAKYeah, there is one more difference, I think. If you're selling cat food, you can buy a whole lot of time on TV that lets you make impressions and win some sort of brand trial by what we call tonnage -- that is, a lot of repetition and, you know, over and over again, the same message or whatever. But if you're doing a PSA, you have no control over that because the PSA goes out, and it gets aired whenever it gets aired. And you have to count on a spot working one time. You know, you can't count on people seeing it eight or 10 times. It's got to work right from the get-go.

NNAMDIAnd this e-mail we got from Donna Joy, Kathy.

CROSBYMm hmm.

NNAMDI"I'd like to make a comment," Donna Joy says. "But I'm not sure I could call in without getting weepy. Truth is, I found PSAs to be very useful in my life. As a child, growing up in inner-city Baltimore, my savior was a PSA. I used to hear the message, education is the key. I took it to heart and pushed forward in the belief that education was my escape from the slum. It was, and I'm very grateful for the PSA. Thank you for the broadcast and for the PSAs."

CROSBYMm hmm.

NNAMDIHow often do you hear that?

CROSBYYou know, Donna, your story is really inspiring because that's why we do what we do. That's why the advertising agencies donate all of their time for free pro bono. That's why the media companies offer their air time and broadcast time and newspaper time for free because they truly, genuinely want to make a difference in people's lives. And so knowing that, you know, you really took to heart that message and found your escape is, you know, music to my ears, certainly. And I would say that everybody that works within our industry genuinely wants to make a difference in people's lives.

CROSBYAnd I know that can kind of sound trite. I think it's an overused phrase, make a difference. But, really, if we can encourage kids to stay in school and not drop out, if we can encourage women and men to get the health preventive tests they need so that they're there for their families, if we can encourage young men to not drink -- if they feel buzzed -- because they could cause a traffic crash. I mean, those are the type of life-changing game changers that everybody in the PSA industry is in it for. So, you know, Donna, I would love to hear your story at some point in time.

NNAMDIAnd we have a couple of people on the line who would like to share some of their old favorite PSAs. But first, we have to take a short break. When we come back, we will continue our conversation on PSAs, advertising for the public good, how it's done and why it's changing. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.

NNAMDIWe're discussing advertising for the public good with Kathy Crosby, senior vice president and group campaign director with the Ad Council that produces and distributes PSAs nationally, and Chuck Husak, creative director for August, Lang & Husak Incorporated, an advertising agency based in Bethesda, Md. Let's go directly to the telephones to talk with Steve in Ocean View, Del. Steve, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

STEVEWell, thank you very much for discussing this topic, and I was calling in to just give you an example of a very old PSA that has stuck with me. I'm 69 years old, and when I was growing up as a youngster in the early 1950s in Hyde Park, N.Y., on the old black-and-white DuMont television there was a jingle that came on. "As the peach pit said to the apple core, the color of our skin doesn't matter anymore." And it stuck with me for all these years.

NNAMDII see Kathy shaking her head. You've heard this, Kathy?

CROSBYI have heard it. I don't believe it's an Ad Council campaign, but I absolutely have heard that. And you know what? It's amazing that it stuck with you. I think that's the point of that message, and I just really appreciate that story. It's awesome.

NNAMDIThank you very much, Steve. You can share your favorite memory of public service announcements with us also at 800-433-8850. Or you can e-mail them to kojo@wamu.org. Here's an e-mail we got from Greg. "I remember the, give a hoot, don't pollute, ads with Woodsy the Owl, but it seems like I never see these anymore. But littering problems have not gone away. I see it all the time in my Northeast D.C. neighborhood. Are problems like this still addressed?"

CROSBYMm hmm.

NNAMDI"I want the kids of today to respect their neighborhood in the same way that I do. Certainly, not littering is an easy way to do this." Kathy?

CROSBYYes, absolutely. You know, give a hoot, don't pollute, Woodsy's message is absolutely critical today. The U.S. Forest Service, who we partner with on Smokey Bear campaign, definitely has a heart and a passion for bringing Woodsy back to the forefront, primarily from a conservation message. But probably, you would remember the Crying American -- or Crying Native American Indian, which is one of the most iconic spots and is, in fact, one of the ones that I remember...

NNAMDIWe had a caller who couldn't stay on the line, who wondered whether that was ever controversial.

CROSBYI can address that in just one second, but...

NNAMDISure.

CROSBY...I do believe that these messages are very important. And in fact, Keep America Beautiful was the partner with the Ad Council on the pollution messages and the littering messages. And we're hoping to kind of bring that message back because it is critical nowadays, certainly. But Woodsy is alive and well. You can check him out on the Forest Service website.

NNAMDIYes. And about the Indian with the tear.

CROSBYYou know, it's interesting because...

NNAMDIIt is iconic.

CROSBY...you know, it is iconic. And, I think, at the time, it was very, very breakthrough because what it helped people to understand was the connection between their negative action, which was throwing away trash, and the connection to the environment. And I think that, you know, the Native Americans have always been a culture that represented our natural environment, and to see that gentleman crying has stuck with all of us. Certainly, I was very young at the time when I saw those. And was it controversial? Potentially. I mean, it did seem like it was somewhat anti-industry at the time, but I think that the message was necessary. And that was the only time I've ever heard about it being controversial.

NNAMDIHere is John in Northwest Washington. John, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

JOHNHi. I just wanted to mention one point that I think has been left out of the discussion, which is the legal regime, which set up the necessity for public service announcements. The government grants licenses to commercial broadcasters on the condition that they perform some community service. I wonder whether the Ad Council would continue to have a reason for existing but for filling these few spots every hour or every few hours.

CROSBYWell, I...

JOHNI mean, these stations don't air public service announcements because they care about us or because they love us but 'cause it's a legal obligation. And for some broadcasters, this is the only thing that they do in terms of public service.

CROSBYRight. You know -- I mean, your question is a good one, and I think that there's a lot of misconceptions about this. But, you know -- and somebody, please, correct me if I'm wrong -- but I no longer believe that the -- that they are regulated to actually run PSAs. I think...

NNAMDINot a legal obligation anymore.

CROSBYRight. It was deregulated in the '70s, I think.

NNAMDIYep, yep, yep.

CROSBYAnd so, honestly, when you see a spot on TV or hear it on the radio or read it in the newspaper, it's really there by the graciousness of the media company who is genuinely wanting to make a positive impact. So at one point in time, they were mandated, but I think that was done away with.

NNAMDIYes. When I got into broadcasting in the early '70s, there was ascertainment in which you had to find out what the public wanted to hear. And radio stations were required by FCC regulation to air a certain amount of public affairs programming. That no longer exists. But, Chuck, the time during which PSAs are run is also donated by television networks, radio stations. So you have no say in when they will actually run or who gets to see them. How have you used other multimedia platforms and social media to work around that potential obstacle?

HUSAKWell, of course, TV is just one way a public service message can get out there, and they are dioramas in airport terminals. They are bus backs and bus sides. They are print ads and radio spots and so forth. But I think today you see these campaigns' approach not just as a medium and a message, but they are programs. They are entire programs that almost always have a website and some viral component and some social marketing aspects and mobile marketing aspect that ties everything together. This is the way people communicate today.

CROSBYYeah, I mean, one of the things that we try to do is fish where the fish are, and they are definitely online. And so almost every one of our campaigns has a very comprehensive website and social media program where it's applicable based on the target audience. And so, you know, our extension into the viral media has very much proliferated.

NNAMDIWe got this e-mail from Jonathan. "As we move increasingly to the web for information, how will PSA change, as do the informational messages pharmaceutical companies use to create a market around restless leg syndrome by 'raising awareness' of diseases, then selling the medication designed to help? In effect, it seems that all of this becomes background chatter that dilutes the impact of the Ad Council."

CROSBYMm hmm.

NNAMDI"What are your guests' thoughts? Are they concerned with public relation/advertising taking the general concept of the PSA and subverting it for specific corporate or political interests?" Fascinating question.

CROSBYRight. That's a great question. I mean, basically, I understand what you're asking us. And what I would say is, you know, we have become very astute and adept at developing a message that will persuade people to think or act differently. And that's always been our goal, but there are a lot of for-profit advertisers that deal with education. And so at the end of the day, if they're trying to educate consumers about why they might need a specific product, I don't think it really takes away from PSAs. I think that it's tried to create a more educated populous. And at the end of the day, that's what PSAs are trying to do, educate people about specific things.

CROSBYAnd so, you know, our work has to stand on the merit of its own work. And so we try to create every single message to be relevant to the target audience, to be actionable, to be motivational. And at the end of the day, you know, we're not selling a product. We're selling ideals, the way to change your attitudes and change your behaviors. But I don't think that for-profit advertising really takes anything away from us. If anything, it makes people smarter and less willing to potentially buy in on something if they haven't researched it.

NNAMDIChuck, the pharmaceutical companies watched the Olympics of advertising and learned how to run better.

HUSAKYou know, if I was selling tires, I'd want to sell tires like a public service approach as well. I mean, again, these are spots about values and connecting with people and moving them to do something. So it's not just about recognizing a brand or, you know, getting them to reach for a specific jar in -- you know, in a supermarket. And in this light, advertising has always been really, really competitive. You know, you're trying to get somebody who's sitting in front of a TV, half-awake, to suddenly lean forward and pay attention and say, you know, there's some message here that is compelling. And no matter what it's about, it's your challenge to make that message as dynamic and important as it can be. So -- and the most dynamic arena for these kinds of understandings to happen is the public service arena, so -- sure.

NNAMDIHere is Ellen in Washington, D.C. Ellen, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

ELLENHi, Kojo, and thank you. This is a lot of fun. I'm, like, having all these nostalgic flashbacks. But I remember an ad in New York, and I think it wasn't the federal campaign. I think it was a local kind of PSA. And it went, 10 p.m., do you know where your children are?

NNAMDIOh, I remember that very well from living in New York. I thought I saw it when I first to came to Washington, too. I don't remember. Was it -- it was local, wasn't it, Kathy?

CROSBYYes.

NNAMDIYeah, it was a New York commercial. Yeah, I remember that one pretty fondly myself, Ellen, and wish it would come back nationwide. Thank you very...

ELLENAre there a lot of other local ads like that?

CROSBYAbsolutely, absolutely. I mean, there are so many local charities out there that have very important messages, everything from the humane society and the local, you know, adopt-a-pet to the domestic violence shelters. So there are way more local charities than national ones, for sure.

NNAMDIHere, now, is Debbie in Herndon, Va. Debbie, your turn.

DEBBIEHi, Kojo. I was remembering back in the early '60s or late '50s, there was an ad that was -- it probably would be very useful now in this day and age when we have so many pedestrian accidents. It was a jingle. And I think kids all learned it back -- at least up in New Jersey. It was -- can I sing it?

NNAMDIYeah...

DEBBIE(singing) Don't cross the street in the middle, in the middle, in the middle, in the middle, in the middle of the street. Keep your eyes to look up. Keep your ears to hear. Walk up to the corner where your coast is clear, then wait, and wait until you see the light turn green. And I used to sing it and remember it and tell my mother. So I think you can get the kids to, you know, get something going there.

NNAMDIAnd we really enjoyed your rendering of it, Debbie.

NNAMDIThank you. And thank you so very much. Finally, we go to John in Silver Spring, Md. John, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

JOHNHi. Thanks for taking the call. I remember a fascinating tolerance PSA in New York area in the late or mid-1950s around the Benny Goodman Quartet. The idea was this is an integrated quartet that made music because they played together. And, you know, he had Wilson and Hampton and Krupa -- all different kinds of people.

NNAMDIMm hmm.

JOHNAnd I remember this from when I was, like, 12 years old, and it stuck with me. And this was before the civil rights movement, and it was the first thing I saw that actually clued me in to what that was all about.

NNAMDIBenny Goodman, Gene Krupa, Lionel Hampton -- these are names that most of our listeners are completely unaware of. But, believe me, they used to be great jazz musicians during the 20th century. John, thank you very much for your call and for that memory.

JOHNYou're welcome. You're welcome.

NNAMDIWe got this e-mail from Helen in Arlington. "I wish they'd bring back this one. Drive defensively, watch out for the other guy."

CROSBYMm hmm.

NNAMDIWe all remember that one also. And this e-mail from Jen. "Our oceans have islands of plastic waste larger than the State of Texas. Why are there no ads against littering, showing that island from space and zooming in to show turtles, dolphins and other sea creatures trapped and dying in your waste?"

CROSBYYeah...

NNAMDIIs that on your agenda?

CROSBYIt absolutely is. And one of the things that, you know, the Ad Council struggles with is that we have to have a sponsor organization that can fund the PSA. And so we certainly have been talking to the major ocean conservation groups about the possibility of a protect-the-ocean message. But, you know, as it's unfunded, we can't be out there with it, unfortunately.

NNAMDIKathy Crosby, a senior vice president and group campaign director with the Ad Council that produces and distributes PSAs nationally. Kathy, thank you for joining us.

CROSBYThank you so much. It's been a pleasure.

NNAMDIChuck Husak is creative director for August, Lang & Husak Incorporated, an advertising agency based in Bethesda, Md. Chuck, thank you for joining us.

HUSAKMy pleasure, Kojo.

NNAMDIAnd thank you all for listening. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.