MR. KOJO NNAMDIFrom WAMU 88.5 at American University in Washington, welcome to The Politics Hour, featuring Tom Sherwood. I'm Kojo Nnamdi. Later in the broadcast, we'll be joined by Corey Stewart. He is chairman of the Prince William Board of County Supervisors. He is a Republican. Tom Sherwood is our resident analyst. He's an NBC 4 reporter and a columnist for the Current Newspapers, and at dinner last night, gave me a new description, a new definition for the word curmudgeon, (laugh) an individual who does not like the "Happy Birthday" song. Refuses to sing it.

MR. TOM SHERWOODOnly because people are -- can't sing it. They -- that no one's ever on tune. No one ever there. It's mournful. (laugh) So it's funereal. It's like people have died, not that they're having a birthday. I challenge you to sing the "Happy Birthday" song in a peppy, upbeat way. Last night, people thought...

NNAMDI(singing) Happy birthday to you.

SHERWOOD...there was some funeral procession walking through their...

NNAMDI(singing) Happy birthday to you. Happy birthday to you, Tom.

SHERWOOD...dining room.

NNAMDI(singing) Happy birthday to you. How was that?

SHERWOODYou didn't do it last night.

NNAMDIIs it your birthday? It's not -- it was not...

SHERWOODNo. It was Jerry Cooper. You know, 90 years old.

MR. VINCENT GRAYOh, Jerry Copper. Yeah, he's great.

NNAMDIIt was not your...

SHERWOODWard 1 and Mr. Democrat.

NNAMDIYou've caused the guest in the studio to start talking without being introduced at all.

SHERWOODThis is a mystery moment.

GRAYI had to have an answer to that one, Kojo.

NNAMDIThis is new definitions for curmudgeon. (laugh) Vincent Gray joins us in the studio. He is the presumptive mayor-elect in the District of Columbia. He's the winner of this week's Democratic primary and the sitting chairman of the D.C. City Council. Chairman Gray, congratulations on your primary victory.

GRAYThank you very much, Kojo. And thank you and Tom for having me here today.

GRAYAnd your honeymoon is over. (laugh)

SHERWOODIf you have questions...

GRAYThere was no one.

NNAMDIIf you have questions or comments for Vince Gray, you can call us at 800-433-8850, 800-433-8850, or you can go to our website kojoshow.org and ask a question or make a comment there. Chairman Gray, allow me to start with the elephant in the room, two black men running for mayor of the District of Columbia resulting in what may be the most racially divided final turnout that we have ever seen in terms of the voting. Voting in your favor, four for one by African Americans and Adrian Fenty's favor about the same, by whites in the city. You have run on a campaign of uniting the city. Clearly, black voters already favor you. The job, it would appear, that you have is reaching out to white voters in the city.

GRAYI think that's absolutely right, Kojo. We wanna do everything we can to unite this city. I've already committed myself to having eight town hall meetings. We're going to do all of those before the general election. I wanna get out and talk to people. I've asked, you know, folks to join with me in this. I've asked, you know, council members in respective wards to be co-sponsors. I'd like the at-large members to join me. And frankly, I think it would be a wonderful if Mayor Fenty joined me as well. We had a wonderful unity breakfast yesterday with the Democratic State Committee. He and I had a chance to talk once again. And I would love to have him join me in helping to bring this city together.

SHERWOODCan you -- looking at the numbers, the numbers are fairly historic. You've had a broad-based career. Is it that the people didn't know you or they were just happy, the white voters in the city and principally, white voters of Wards 1, 2, 3 and 6, that they were just happy with the things Fenty had done and didn't have all the issues that African Americans have (unintelligible). Okay, it wasn't a racial split over you. It was over this campaign.

GRAYMm-hmm.

SHERWOODI was just wondering if you have any understanding of why there was such a racial split.

GRAYWell, you know, it's something that probably will be extensively studied, Tom. But I've said, too, that -- I think you have to go beyond the issue of race and look at those who felt like they were well served in this current administration and those who felt that they weren't. When you look at the eastern end of the city, the unemployment level is at a -- just epidemic levels. It's 19 percent in Ward 7, 30 percent in Ward 8...

SHERWOODBut -- yes, sir. But that has been -- and that the Ward 8 got recreation centers, got libraries, got street improvements. But it was this tone that Fenty didn't care about them for some reason. Not -- I'm not sure why.

GRAYI think it's that people felt like they weren't well served.

SHERWOODI mean, you council members, have you -- and have you felt like the mayor didn't care about the council members 'cause he snubbed you.

GRAYYes.

NNAMDIYou and the whole group. He just didn't engage people on the community level, which sounds like what you're trying to do.

GRAYWell, absolutely. And I think you got to do this from the very beginning. You know, I talk to a lot of people across the city. Again, there are people on the western of the city who feel like they have been well served and there are others on the eastern end that feel like they've been poorly served. So we're gonna focus on trying to listen to people, to understand, you know, what they see, there needs being, and be as candid as we can about how those needs can be responded to.

NNAMDIMay I, I've got two questions. Here's an example of what you're going to have to deal with. This is an e-mail we got from Jake in Mt. Pleasant. "Chairman Gray should know that the reason I did not vote for him was that he never convinced me that reforming the schools was an urgent mission for him. Holistic and community base will simply not produce the results that many families, including mine, need from the schools. A few notes on who I am. I grew up here. I'm white. And I belong to the professional class. And the state of the schools is a critical issue for me and my young family. My parents scraped and clawed to pay for private school tuition when I grew up, which even 20 years ago was not near the extreme it is now. But there are very, very few people who are going to be able to pay a D.C. mortgage and pay private school tuition for much longer. And they'll be looking to you to make sure that the schools and the city are a place where they can raise their kids. You want to talk about one city? This is the one issue where you can do something to raise all votes and do it with urgency. Please convince me that my fears about you in the voting booth were off-base."

GRAYWell, I think we've done everything we could, Kojo, to convince people that education reform is a -- is the top issue for me along with getting people back to work. First of all, when you go back to the legislation. I had to get through the council, which, by the way, had been voted down by the council back in 2004 when Mayor Williams proposed a mayoral takeover. I helped to shepherd it through. We had an overwhelmingly supportive vote. I work to support education reform since. The first position paper that I issued as a mayoral candidate was around education reform. The first principle -- and that was to say that we will continue with a strongly empowered chancellor, that I want to have a birth-to-24 commitment to the people of the District of Columbia around public education, include the stakeholders and have, you know, strong fiscal responsibility and fiscal management.

GRAYSo I've done everything I could, both by my actions and by my words to let people know that education reform is the top issue, and we will move forward with that in the ways that I've tried to move forward with it, even as council chair.

NNAMDIWhat experience have you had in healing racial divisions before? A former student colleague of yours at George Washington University 45 years ago who now host the show that you had to be dragged kicking and screaming to go to this morning because nobody would listen...

GRAYThat would be Mark Plotkin, right? (laugh)

NNAMDII don't remember his name, actually, but he said that when he met you 45 years ago, quote, unquote, "Vince Gray was the head of the Jewish fraternity on campus." Tell us about that effort at integration.

GRAYIt was a very racially segregated campus, and it was very evident in the Greek system at George Washington. There had never been an African-American in either a sorority or a fraternity at George Washington University, and it was my belief that that had to end. So...

SHERWOODWhat year was this?

GRAYThis was back in 1963, and this was a very, you know, racially segregated. That was the same year, by the way, that we had to march on Washington, which was, you know, this anniversary that was celebrated just recently. So I took that on, and it was a very difficult experience. And what's interesting is all these years later, some of the guys in the fraternity that I was a member of, became the president of, served for two years, which I think was, no pun intended...

NNAMDIFraternity did not admit you know who, but that's another question.

GRAYYeah.

GRAYAnd they worked on my campaign. All these years later. At least half a dozen were involved with the campaign.

SHERWOODWell, I think, you know, most people who do believe, who know you, and I think that was one of the issues. A lot of people I ran into didn't -- don't know you...

GRAYMm-hmm.

SHERWOOD...but they will get to know. I want to go back to the school system because there was a front-page Post story today about what's gonna happen. We all believe Michelle Rhee is going to be leaving. And she was quoted to saying that your election was devastating to the reform efforts in town. They were devastating. She's put out a letter. I don't know if you noticed. She's put out a letter...

NNAMDIAmending that.

SHERWOODWell, not amending. It's clarifying. That she was saying devastating was not anything about you, but she said if reform does not continue, it will be devastating. But I want to talk about Bob Bobb. Bob Bobb is a former city administrator...

NNAMDIBobby Bobb.

SHERWOOD...president of the school board. I think he was president, yes. He's been...

NNAMDIYes.

SHERWOOD...the special emergency manger of the schools in Detroit. He's all these things. He's lot of experience in management. He has a -- he owns a house in Ward 4, just off of 16th Street. I asked him election night at your headquarters, if he still owned this house, and he said yes and he hopes to be back in it. And it's wildly thought that he is the perfect candidate to be your schools chancellor because we all -- whether you will say it or not -- know that Michelle Rhee will either leave -- will leave before you fire here.

GRAYWell, I have not had any conversations with Mr. Bobb. I worked very closely with him when he was a city administrator, and I was then the Ward 7 council member. I have worked with him during the time that he was the chairman, president, if you will, of the State Board of Education. But really I have not talked to him in months. In fact, someone told me he was at the hotel...

SHERWOODRight.

GRAY...when we had the celebration. I did not see him, nor did I talk to him.

SHERWOODI did.

NNAMDIWhat is the...

SHERWOODBut he would be the type to -- I apologize, Kojo.

NNAMDINo, go ahead.

SHERWOODBut someone like him. In fact, he's African-American could play a role. You know, someone like him with the experience, he would be someone you would consider among -- as you look for somebody, assuming that you look for someone.

GRAYThat then -- I appreciate the last qualifier, Tom, because I think I'm gonna be true to my word, and that is I want to sit down with Michelle Rhee and...

NNAMDIWhat is the nature of the conversation you would like to have with Michelle Rhee?

GRAYI think the nature of it is to try to figure out where we go from here. She's been the chancellor for three and a half years. I voted for her confirmation. I've worked with her. We've had a working relationship, admittedly different than mayor-chancellor, but it's been council chair-chancellor. But education has been in the committee the whole -- from day one. We work very closely together. There are some days when we've done very well together. The other days, just by the nature of the process, when it's been contentious. But that's to be expected. That's the nature of the business that we're in.

GRAYSo my conversation with her would be around, you know, where are you at this point. We have had an election. You know, the mayor that had hired her presumably will not be the mayor in the future. I will be. And I want to hear from her what's important to her with respect to continuing with reform. As I indicated, Kojo, to the gentleman, Jake, I think it was, I've done everything I could to try to indicate, to demonstrate that education reform is the critical issue in the city. I intend to continue with education reform. So I want to hear from her what her concerns are. And I want her to hear from me, you know, what I believe we must do and, frankly, to reaffirm my commitment to reform.

NNAMDIBefore I go to the phones again, one more question on the issue of race. Washington Post columnist Colbert King wrote a few weekends ago that Mayor Fenty alienated the city's educated black community from the start or the city's black community in general by assembling a Cabinet with little sensitivity to race. And one of the reasons I'm raising this question is because I love Phil Pannell's quote I got to use it again. Colby quoted Ward 8 activist Phil Pannell who said that Adrian Fenty made Anthony Williams look like Shaka Zulu.

SHERWOODYou know, can I add to your question before he answers. It's a very -- I want to -- here's a list of white directors in agencies: police chief, fire chief, consumer and regulatory affairs, transportation, attorney general, public health director, schools chancellor, at least non-African-American, D.C. water, environmental services, employment services. Essentially all white people.

NNAMDIHow will race factor into the decisions you make informing your Cabinet? What is your sensitivity to the issue?

GRAYI want a cabinet that looks like the city, and that will be the template that I will try to use. And, you know, we've had conversations before about the fact that when you look at the public education cluster, which is another way of looking at the day that you just cited, Tom, when you look at the public safety cluster, when you look at the education cluster, I think that that raised a lot of concerns with people because there is not one African-American top leader in either of those clusters which are arguably two of the most important in the District of Columbia.

SHERWOODThe deputy mayor for education, Victor Reinoso. is also not African American.

GRAYThat's correct. There are four or five top positions in the, you know, in the education cluster. A minimum of three -- fire chief, police chief, attorney general in the public safety cluster, and people talk about that. And then I think what has exacerbated the situation is that people see the teachers being fired in the city, and the last round was, you know, because of performance issues. But the first round was because of budgetary issues, we were told, and then there were concerns raised about that and people saw a lot of African-American teachers going out the door. And frankly, teaching is one of the most revered professions in this city, being a physician, being a lawyer and a being a teacher. In the African-American community, there very few positions, professional positions beyond a teacher that's more revered than that.

NNAMDIThere were times in this campaign when former Mayor Marion Barry placed himself front and center in your campaign. He tends to be a symbol of the racial divisiveness in the city. What will Vincent Gray do to establish that he is not A, Marion Barry light and that B, he is going to establish a new regime of government in the District of Columbia?

GRAYI think, Kojo, people who know me know I am my own person. I've run the Council in that way. I've done it in a collegial, collaborative way, you know, working with people. But at the same time, we have moved forward with the decisions that we had -- we've had to make. We had a very difficult one earlier this year, you know, involving Councilmember Barry, and we did what we thought was the right thing based on the report that was done for us by Robert Bennett and a team of attorneys working (unintelligible)

NNAMDIYou censured Councilmember Barry, and he no longer chairs any committees.

GRAYThat's correct. And I say that in the context of saying I've known, you know, I've known Marion Barry for many, many years as probably those of us who (unintelligible)

NNAMDI40 in my case. Yes.

GRAYAnd frankly, there are some good things that Marion Barry has done for this city. But at the same time, I'm gonna have my own administration, I'm gonna have my own leadership. I will look forward to working with every council member. Marion Barry represents a ward, again, where you have extraordinarily high unemployment, and we've got to be able to address that. I wanna be able to work with the 70,000 people in Ward 8, and I'm sure that Marion Barry and I will share, do share, some of the same concerns about being able to bring services to the people who live in Ward 8.

NNAMDIOn to the telephones. Here is Ronnie in Northwest Washington. Ronnie, you are now on the air. Go ahead, please.

RONNIEGood morning. I know Vince Gray and I trust Vince Gray. And I would say to all of those that have doubts, why not join the passion that the rest of us share for one city which he certainly would take the leadership in doing? Tom and other senior citizens were not well-served by the Fenty administration. In fact, services were almost eliminated. Thirdly, the movement is real. He is going to be -- Vincent is going to be an outstanding mayor, and we look forward to having him as our mayor and our leader and to unite this city. And Tom, your colleague Jeffrey made a comment...

SHERWOODOh, don't quote him. Good Lord.

RONNIE... on television yesterday about people...

SHERWOODThis program is going down the tubes now.

RONNIEOh, I know about people leaving, taking their kids out of the public school system. And I just wanna remind you all of history because I was here and attended a segregated school system. Born here, raised here, schooled here, churched here, worked here, just like Jake. And I know the pain that we suffered and being ostracized and sitting next to people who pretended that you weren't there, those that did not do the white flight and moved to other counties. So what else is new? People have always taken their kids out of the school system to avoid racial unity and racial harmony.

NNAMDIBut I don't think that is what Vincent Gray wants to happen in this case, Ronnie. Allow...

RONNIENo. He does not.

NNAMDIAllow him to speak on that.

RONNIEAnd it's not going to happen, you know…

NNAMDIAllow him to speak on it himself.

SHERWOODThis is Veronica Pace who ran the Office on Aging for sometime.

NNAMDIOf course. Of course. Veronica actually...

SHERWOODShe's one of -- actually the president of my fan club. (laugh)

NNAMDIWho we know (laugh) very -- who we know very well. Not, Jeff is though. But here is council chair.

GRAYWell, my goal is to bring people together as much as we possibly can, you know. And as we try to figure out what has happened here in the city to the extent that this has been exacerbated, one of the issues that has not been discussed is the role of the church, the role of religion. Mayor Fenty did not have a relationship at all with the organized religion in the city. I talked to a lot of religious leaders in the city who feel that they were alienated, that there was no role for them, when in fact there has been historically in an organized, formal way. One of the things I have committed myself to doing is ensuring that we have a strong interfaith committee, having a religious services coordinator who will operate out of the office of the mayor, and frankly bring back something that we did for a number of years and that is an annual prayer breakfast where we bring people together across the city to pray for the city and pray that we can solve the problems that we experience. So again, I think opening up the doors and recognizing that, you know, organized religion, for want of a better way of putting it, plays an important role in the lives of so many people in this city and making sure that our clergy in particular feel there's a place of them.

NNAMDIOur guest is Vincent Gray. He is the presumptive mayor-elect in the District of Columbia. Even though I have to tell you, Veronica Pace, there is an election taking place in November, but Vincent Gray is the winner of this week's Democratic primary and the sitting chairman of the D.C. City Council. Tom Sherwood is our resident analyst. He's an NBC 4 reporter and a columnist for The Current Newspapers. Tom?

SHERWOODI would just wanna -- you hate -- I hate it when you don't hate, but you don't like it when we always come back to this question. You're gonna do so much cooperation, collegiality, collaboration...

GRAYCollaboration

SHERWOOD...and consensus -- all those C words

GRAYThe Cs.

SHERWOODWill there be paralysis by analysis? The question is, will you get things done as opposed to explore things because this is -- you’re an executive branch that means making decisions even when you don't have as much time as you think you might need to make an informed decision.

GRAYI think every job I've ever been in, we've gotten things done. Again, I invite people to look at the council for the last four years.

SHERWOODWell, Lorraine Green, your chairman, gave a good example. She said look, we've put a campaign together in five months and we were successful. That's doing something.

GRAYAbsolutely.

SHERWOODBut that's the one issue a lot of reporters keep saying. You'll consult so much that you won't get to the trigger point.

GRAYBut there's really no -- but there's no evidence.

NNAMDIWell, allow me to go to this call because I think Steve in Washington, D.C. wants to get to that issue. Steve, you're on the air. Go ahead please.

STEVEThank you, Kojo, and Mr. Gray, congratulations.

GRAYThank you.

STEVEMy question is this. I think that Mayor Fenty was a change agent, and a lot of his personality and not fitting in, in a lot of ways, was very similar to change agents in companies and in government. And those kinds of people don't actually last too long. But what tends to happen is after they leave, people realize, gee, we really did need some of that. And without asking you to, you know, take on any of the qualities that Mr. Fenty had, which were very conflict versus consensus-oriented, and I hear you when you say you're gonna restore the culture of Washington, yet the city still needs change, and it needs a change agent. My question is, how are you going to be a change agent for the things that do need to change?

GRAYI think by providing leadership, you know, again we've set forth -- we were the only campaign in this entire election, and that includes the mayor as well, that set out positions on issue. We had four position papers on education, on public safety, on economic development, and then, of course, on the public trust and fiscal responsibility. I think we were very clear in there, the things that we're gonna do, and I intend to be true to what we put on paper. Very clear in terms of education reform. I don't see us walking backwards on education reform. We've got to continue with that. I voted for education reform. I had the oversight of education reform. Did I like everything that happened every day? Absolutely not, and we made that clear.

GRAYThere's so many people in the city who look to the council as the only oversight body that existed, and that's the role that we've tried to play. But in no way have we ever entertained retrenching, rescinding the move to mayoral control, but it had to be refined. And that was the role of the council, and we'll continue to refine it because we know that our children need to be better served. Frankly, I was the architect of legislation that created a commitment which I think was a bold commitment to pre-kindergarten services for every child in the District of Columbia. And we have invested the money, and we have made enormous progress. We are four years ahead of schedule in being able to accomplish that. We will be the first jurisdiction in America, to my knowledge, to be able to say that we have a seat for every three and four-year-old. There's no turning back.

NNAMDIFor those people who say there is no turning back, in fact, how do you address issues that have been some source of controversy in this campaign and before this campaign -- bike lanes, dog parks, street cars? Any turning back?

GRAYWell, let me take street cars on (laugh) for the 943rd time I support street cars. We had a situation in which my intent was to make it clear that we needed a clear plan. There were a lot of questions that were unanswered around street cars. We had left a lot of money in the budget to do a plan, and unfortunately, I think people got the impression -- and I say unfortunately -- that there was not a commitment to street cars. My commitment was to having a plan so we know how we're going to go forward, and I'm committed to street cars.

GRAYWe've got to solve issues around the power source, around the maintenance facility. The tracks have been, you know -- we've had four or five different places where they were going to get started. We still have tracks out on H Street and Benning Road that kind of go nowhere on either end. So we've got to put in place a plan so that people know what’s going to be the billion and a half dollars that will be spent over the next 20 years. How will it be spent, and what communities will be served, what is clear?

SHERWOODIn a 90 -- in a city with 90 -- huge Democratic majority, that's why you are presumptively going to be to the next mayor -- but in the city that voted 93 percent for President Obama, I'm told he still hasn't called you, that his administration has called to congratulate you in some kind of third or second level with the White House, but...

NNAMDIWell he hasn’t won the election yet. He's only won the primary.

SHERWOODWell that's -- well good.

NNAMDIDid he get a call from the President for winning...

SHERWOODDo you think Obama has to wait until November?

NNAMDIWhy not?

SHERWOODWhy wait until January 2?

NNAMDISuppose there's an insurgent candidacy?

SHERWOODHe seems to be waiting long enough for -- I don't wanna sound like Mark Plotkin, but I do think, it does seem to me that -- where is the respect for the White House from the White House for this city? You invited the president come to the Wilson Building to meet with the legislative staff and the people who run the city. The president seems the only thing he'd do locally is eat at our restaurants (laugh).

GRAYI do think there's more than these to be done, and I do wanna hear from the president. I happen to be at a Mystics game recently and had a very, very brief conversation with the president. I got invited to his small business roll-out which was a substantive experience. That was about a week later after that, but I would like to hear from the president. I think it's fine that his people who work for him reach out to me, and I've heard from a couple of them, but that's not a substitute for the president of the United States. He said he wanted to do things for the city. I think he could start by putting the license plate -- you know, on his automobile and, you know, say to people from all over this nation that taxation without representation is unacceptable. We've got budget autonomy that we want to achieve, legislative autonomy, and frankly, we'd like to achieve statehood. And I'd like to hear from a president who hardly support -- that he hardly supports the people who's sick...

NNAMDISounds like a man who's been listening to the city's major unelected voting rights strategist. (laugh)

SHERWOODBut it isn’t about going to be invited to sit and, I mean, we -- our children are used as props at the White House when there is some kind of reading thing or education thing or sport thing. The mayors have property and the box at the State of the Union Address. I think the city maybe should stop being a prop for all of those things they're doing – the vegetable garden for the First Lady, until we have at least some acknowledgement that we're not -- we're second-class citizens.

GRAYWell, I think there's, you know, there's a real substance to what you're saying, Tom. And I think we need to put in front of the White House and the president a substantive agenda of things that we would like to see him support and have him give us an answer...

SHERWOODInvite him to something and try to make him come.

GRAYYeah. Well, were prepared to do a reception for him at the Wilson Building, and we got turned down.

SHERWOODHe could walk if it's that close.

NNAMDII have to say I agree on all of those. Here is Dan in Brookland, D.C. Dan, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

DANYeah. I just want to clarify – you see, I live in Brookland but I'm actually at the moment on my cell phone in one of those infamous dog parks -- I supported Vincent Gray in this election. I'm mostly calling in because I'm delighted that he's announced that he's going to return to having regular press conferences and actually be open and have some transparency with our local news. I thought the -- that said, I thought the, you know, a lot of the repairing works that Mayor-elect Gray has to do is really to respond to the, you know, scurrilous campaign that was waged, not only by the Fenty campaign but by The Washington Post, to somehow, you know, paint the scary picture that, you know, completely ignored Vincent Gray's last four years as council chairman. I mean, every -- it was almost laughable. Friends and I would laugh about, you know, if there's a photo of Fenty with Michelle Rhee, the photo would be of Vincent Gray with Marion Barry, as if they were bosom chums. You know, that's some kind of, you know, dog whistle, you know. (laugh)

SHERWOODWell, that's a good question. Have you spoken to Jo-Ann Armao at The Washington Post since your election?

NNAMDIJo-Ann Armao who writes the editorials (unintelligible)

SHERWOODEditorials, one of the lead editorial artists on local issues for the Post. Have you?

GRAYI have not. But I will say this, that our campaign, we really communicated regularly with the editorial page and specifically with Jo-Ann Armao. And we will work with her.

SHERWOODThey did encourage you to get into the race.

GRAYYeah, they did. They wrote an editorial and said, you know, just jump in and then...

NNAMDIIf you don't like it. Dan, thank you for your call. You've won the grand prize of being mayor in Washington D.C. In April, Mike DeBonis asked you on this broadcast -- Mike DeBonis is now a columnist and blogger and then reporter and all those things at The Washington Post -- he asked you on you on this broadcast to name three things that would get done in the first 100 days of a Gray administration. At the time, you said it was premature to saying that you needed to get through the election first. Well, now you're through the primary. What can you say about two or three things that you'd like to accomplish?

GRAYI think those are the things that will be addressed during the transition, Kojo. I don't wanna get it in front of myself, and I look at the election as being what happens in November, and then we'll have a transition team that's been put together. I think again, if you go back to the position papers that we have disseminated, there are lots of actions in there. The question then becomes, of those actions, which ones will be prioritized to be done very, very quickly? So we've made progress on that. We've said we've set forth, unlike any other candidate, exactly what the issues were as we saw them. We wanted people to know where I stood on education, on employment, on economic development, on public safety, on fiscal responsibility. And, you know, we intend to prioritize this in a way so we know what's gonna happen early -- in the early going after January 2.

NNAMDIHere is Harold in Washington, D.C. Harold, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

HAROLDYeah. First of all, I wanna congratulate Mayor-elect Gray. I think I can say Mayor-elect Gray. Very quickly, I'm asking this question because I'm a devotee of the Maynard Jackson School of local government. Maynard Jackson said, when you're elected to a office like mayor, you have about nine months to a year to make you real big move, about a year after that to follow up on those big moves, and that -- and he said, after that, he found that everything was damage control. With that in mind, I wanna suggest something to Mayor-elect Gray, and that is the establishment of the District of Columbia planning commission. I don't wanna go into details because, you know, I wanna come to stay on a point.

NNAMDIPlus we only have a minute. Go ahead.

HAROLDAnd just find out who would I talk to in, you know, in your campaign and your transition team how will be your style and your -- about that idea, I would like to pursue that idea because I think that's one of the things that this city lacks, that it needs. I'm speaking as a third-generation Washingtonian by the way, I want the president to put me on an endangered species list.

HAROLDAnd I wanna follow up with the...

NNAMDIWe'll, let's stick to the planning commission first, Harold.

SHERWOODThere is a planning commission.

GRAYYeah, well, there actually is not, I think. I'm not gonna try to read his mind but, you know, there's been discussion of -- dating back to the last election four years ago about an independent planning commission. And there was a study that was done that suggested that -- this is a study that was commissioned by this administration -- indicated that they're -- that that was not a path that should be pursued so it was not moved forward on. The planning, of course, a lot of the planning is done through the Zoning Commission, through the Board of Zoning Adjustment to some extent, and also to the Office of Planning here in the city. We'll take a look at that again, but there are sentiments, there are mixed sentiments about it. Some people feel strongly we should do it, and others, using the data from the study done just a couple of years ago, believe strongly that we should not.

NNAMDIAnd finally, a phone call from Jen in Washington, D.C. Jen, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

JENGood afternoon. Thank you so much for taking my call. I just – I just have been listening to the show, and earlier, someone mentioned that Fenty's appointment of a lot of people that didn't look like the city to his cabinet was something that alienated the black educated populace of D.C., and I just have to take issue with that and I think it's almost a little insulting as being one of the black educated voters in D.C. I think most of us want the best people in those positions. And I've been a native Washingtonian my entire life, and I have seen cabinets that look like the city. They have been disastrous. So I think it's kind of almost pandering to say, no, we're gonna make it look like the city. I could care less if it looks like the city. I want it to be good. I want it to be effective. And I think, I got a black president, I'm good. So I just wanted to offer that to Gray that moving forward if you want to do what's best for the city, do not sort of give way to, oh, we need black people in all top positions. Get the best people. Look at the results, and that's all that most of us in the city really care about in the end. And I'll take my comment off the air.

NNAMDIAnd then go down in the next election. But anyway...

NNAMDIHere's Vincent Gray himself to respond.

GRAYWell, I think in saying that it -- that the cabinet would look like the city recognizes that we have a racially and ethnically diverse city and that would include African Americans. It would include Latinos. It would include Asian Americans. It would include whites. And I think that's what people are saying at this stage, and that is when you look at this cabinet, aren't there qualified people from other racial and ethnic groups that would be able to fulfill these positions (unintelligible)

NNAMDI(unintelligible) who are qualified.

SHERWOODThe talent pool is much larger than the top dozen people who are all white or not African American...

GRAYThat's correct.

SHERWOOD...who is much larger.

GRAYAbsolutely. Right, Tom.

NNAMDII'm afraid we're just about of time except for this final email we got from Martha who writes, "I think that the presumptive mayor-elect should send Tom Sherwood to the White House to push for D.C. voting rights."

SHERWOODBut I don't have a press pass there anymore. (laugh) I might stay out there with that lady who's been out there 40 years protesting something.

NNAMDIChairman Gray has not yet decided who he will be sending to the White House. Mark Plotkin. Chairman Gray...

GRAYI was there when Mark Plotkin was evicted from the White House.

NNAMDIGood. He needs to be evicted from a lot of places.

SHERWOODThat's the one positive thing they've done.

NNAMDIVincent Gray is the presumptive mayor-elect in the District of Columbia. He's the winner of this week's Democratic primary and the sitting chairman of the D.C. Council. Vincent Gray, once again, congratulations and good luck to you. I think you need it.

GRAYThank you, Kojo. Thank you, Tom. I'm glad to be here.

SHERWOODBob Bobb wanted me to give you his biography. There you go.

GRAYWait, did he suggest what I should do with it?

NNAMDITom Sherwood.

SHERWOODWell, that's up to you.

NNAMDITom Sherwood is our resident analyst. He's an NBC 4 reporter and a columnist for the Current Newspapers. Tom, in some of the other races this week that we really haven't had a chance to discuss, there was a lot of questions over whether or not Phil Mendelson would be able to pull out the at-large seat given that he was facing a candidate by the name of Michael D. Brown who had the same name as a sitting member of the D.C. City Council. It turned out to be a cakewalk.

SHERWOODWell, yes. But, you know, I will say for the last three to four weeks, including the chair -- I mean, the newly -- about to be elected mayor, were not in campaign and appeared with Phil Mendelson because there was concern that some polling had showed that confusion over Michael A. and Michael D. Brown suggested that Phil Mendelson might lose. And so -- but the people got the message. The poster showed, don't vote for this one because he's not on the ballot and to vote for that one. And it turned out fine for Phil Mendelson.

GRAYIf I can just add a quick...

NNAMDISure.

SHERWOODHe's still here.

GRAYIt was interesting...

NNAMDIThey never leave.

GRAYUltimately, Phil Mendelson got more votes than any candidate for whatever office in the city. But the irony was is he got 60 -- I think 67,000 votes, which is more than anyone.

NNAMDIYeah. And I guess that the campaign...

SHERWOODIt works. It scared people to vote for you because you might -- they think you're gonna lose. That's what he did.

NNAMDIIt turned out that the Not the Real Michael Brown campaign was the most effective campaign in the city after all. (laugh)

SHERWOODThat's right. (unintelligible)

NNAMDIAgain, we've got coming up, Corey Stewart...

SHERWOODDon't stay up until midnight.

NNAMDI...chairman of Prince William Board of County Supervisors. You can start calling for him at 800-433-8850 or you can send your email to kojo@wamu.org. You can go to our website, kojoshow.org, to raise questions or make a comment there. Corey Stewart joins us now in studio. Welcome.

MR. COREY STEWARTWelcome. Thanks a lot. I appreciate it.

NNAMDIGood to see you again.

SHERWOODIt's casual Friday. He doesn't know you have Internet cameras that's gonna put this all over TV.

STEWARTThat's true. I know.

NNAMDITake pictures of him. Send them all over Prince William County.

STEWARTI forgot about those cameras.

NNAMDIImmigration, Corey Stewart, has been a front burner issue in your county for some time now. Things heated up again this summer when an undocumented immigrant was involved in a drunk driving incident that left a nun dead. In the wake of that wake of that incident, you requested that federal officials release data on every undocumented taken into custody and then released back into your county. It's my understanding that request was granted. What have you learned from the data?

STEWARTWell, actually, they -- the federal government received a lot of pressure. National attention was placed on the administration about this issue, and they said they would do it. And, now, they've recanted. They're not going to be releasing the data. And everyone in both sides of this issue, it's not just me and those who have been opposed to illegal immigration, but our police chief and others have said, you know, for goodness sakes, if we hand over an illegal alien who has created -- who has committed a crime and poses a danger to the community, and if t he federal government is going to then release them back into the neighborhood, the least that you can do is let us know that you've done that and to identify that individual. And the administration has refused to do that now.

NNAMDIWhat reason did the federal government give you for refusing to release the information?

STEWARTPrivacy. Can you imagine that? You know, look, if anyone of us as U.S. citizens or illegal residents of this country commits a crime, that's public information. That's in the newspaper. It's easily accessible. But if you're an illegal alien and you commit a crime and the government decides to release you back into the neighborhood, apparently your privacy is protected. It's just dumbfounding, frankly.

NNAMDIWhen you say released from custody, you mean people who were incarcerated for committing crimes. You don't simply mean people who were picked up on suspicion of crime.

STEWARTThat is correct. So the way our policy works in Prince William is we only check immigration status after you have committed an underlying violation of the law. The immigration status is then checked. You serve your sentence for the underlying crime. You're handed over to ICE for deportation. And now what we found out is at least for some of the illegal immigrants that we've handed over who have committed crimes, they've simply been released, like Montano was. And, then, of course he goes out, commits the same crime, DUI, but this time kills a nun in the process.

NNAMDIHe's talking about Carlos Martinelly Montano, 23, who's charged with drunken driving, involuntary manslaughter and felony driving on a revoked license. He had two prior drunken driving convictions.

SHERWOODThat was a horrific wreck. I wanna ratchet back just a little and ask a more basic question. What is the illegal immigration problem in your county, in term -- is it because -- what -- beyond people who are illegally -- who are committing crimes, like driving drunk or whatever, what is the -- just of course opinion. What is the issue? Is it -- there are -- other than taking jobs. They are unsafe. Just -- I don't know. What is the problem with -- that local governments have to take on the immigration thing, which has been a federal issue until recent years?

STEWARTWell, I think it's changed.

SHERWOODQuality of life or…?

STEWARTYeah, I think...

SHERWOODJust kind of broad picture.

STEWARTYeah, I think that, originally, it was the quality of life concerns, plus the criminal element or the concern with the criminal element, and so the illegal immigrant community. And people were concerned about cars parked in lawns, overcrowded homes. Teachers were concerned that -- although there's not a direct -- it's very difficult to establish that relationship, but the numbers, the sheer numbers of non-speaking -- or children who spoke very little English and it was making it very difficult for some of the schools and some of the teachers...

SHERWOODBurden on the school systems.

STEWARTYeah.

SHERWOODI just -- because in most -- I have actually met some people who are not legally in this country, and they say, we do our best to keep a low profile so we don't call attention to ourselves. We don't jaywalk. We don't do the kinds of things. And so there's lots of them. But that still is an issue -- trouble for the school system, the cost and tax paying people and all that, underground economy monies, all those things.

STEWARTYeah, I think that in general that's right. You know, some people are opposed to...

SHERWOODNo, I guess what I'm...

STEWARTYeah.

SHERWOOD...asking it's not racial.

STEWARTNo, no, no. No. No. It...

SHERWOODPeople just -- central American Mexicans and...

STEWARTIt isn't. I think the thing to remember about Prince William County, it is one of the most diverse counties. It's more diverse than Arlington, for example. It has a historic African-American community. It's always been diverse. People -- it's very rare to find someone who's a native of Prince William County, or even a native of Virginia living in Prince William. People come from all over the world, certainly across the country. I myself from Minnesota originally. It is a very diverse and cosmopolitan community. It's -- these concerns were never based on race.

SHERWOODNo wonder Tom Sherwood sounds more Virginian than you do. We last spoke on "The Kojo Nnamdi Show" in April, right around the time Arizona put their controversial immigration measure into law. Since then, they've been sued by the justice department. You've launched an initiative to replicate that Arizona law in Virginia, and you've said that you're willing to take on the justice department, too. What's your underlying philosophy about this here?

STEWARTI think that -- well, for one thing, what I like to do is -- it's at virginiaruleoflaw.com. We've got more than 10,000 people signed up to support a Arizona-like law in Virginia. It's not identical. We've tried to avoid some of the legal pitfalls that Arizona has fallen into. It's a little bit more like the Prince William County policy, which was tested in federal court on November 11, 2007. Judge Gutierrez, federal District Court judge in Alexandria, found that the law was legal on its face. We have not had one substantiated claim of racial profiling since it was implemented in 2007. And it's -- I believe it's a better model, frankly, than Arizona, and it's something that I would like to pass statewide in Virginia because we've had positive results with it.

SHERWOODOne of the things in the -- I have a copy of it here. I looked at it this morning. You have, like, 10,000 or 100,000 signatures that you wanna get.

STEWARTYeah.

SHERWOODIs that right? Well, it's -- the day labor pool. A lot of people who are not documented aliens do a lot of day labor. They stand beside the road. They stand in parking lots. This law would -- this proposal would bar any of that kind of hiring. Is that correct? And make it illegal to even pick someone up.

STEWARTYeah. We believe that we might have that authority right now to do it. After July 1, it's possible to use traffic concerns as a reason to essentially shut down day labor sites, and we're gonna try to do that in Prince William. We did it already -- we were the first jurisdiction to pass a law that would enable our police to do that.

SHERWOODAnd then also -- but the provision also would ban illegal aliens from even seeking work at the -- at illegal day labor sites. So essentially, they would not have employment opportunities in your view.

STEWARTWell, I -- day labor sites are a definite problem, you know. It's not just the --yeah.

SHERWOODWell, it's not the sites or -- if I create a day labor site in the building or something and it has people coming there, it would be illegal for an illegal alien to get a job there also.

STEWARTIt would. But I mean the reality is that, look, the day labor sites are -- there's essentially two of them in -- two major ones in Prince William County. They both have 7-Elevens, one in the west, one in the east inside of the county. The cause of the problems, not only for, you know, motorists but for neighboring businesses that are concerned about it, you know, you'd find public urination, other sorts of potential -- other illegal activity going on at those sites as well.

NNAMDIHere's Mike in Rockville, Md. Mike, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

MIKEYeah, I wanted to say, Mr. Stewart that, you know, I think that this is a huge waste of money to be chasing illegal immigrants who are otherwise contributing to your county, who are living there, who are funding property taxes by paying rents or whatever they're doing. And this money is spent in a ridiculous fashion. And since they started this, I have not spent $1 in Prince William County, and I will not spend $1 in Prince William County. I will drive through it and get my gas in Fairfax or out the other end. I won't go to Jiffy Lube Live or Nissan or whatever they call it these days. I will not go to Prince William County and spend any money until they stop this. They better refund the schools so that the kids can learn, so that they can look the county up rather than being -- chasing people who don't happen to speak the same language as you.

NNAMDICorey Stewart, what can you do to get Mike in Rockville, Md. to stop in Prince William County or...

STEWARTWell...

NNAMDI...do you say keep going?

STEWARTWell, (laugh) I wouldn't say that. I mean, with all due respect, Mike, Prince William County was just rated by CNN Money as number one in job growth in the Commonwealth of Virginia, number one in the D.C. region for job growth and number 17 nationally for job growth. So we're upgraded to AAA bond rating status in the middle of a downturn by both rating agencies. Prince William County is thriving. Businesses are located in the Prince William County, and one of reasons that they are is because of the improving quality of life in Prince William. Crime rate is at a 15-year low, and the quality of life is frankly good and getting better, and we're doing just fine.

NNAMDIEither, we're gonna talk about that…

SHERWOOD(unintelligible) reasons, that's why people seek work there. Illegal aliens go there 'cause there is a lot of work there.

STEWARTThere is a lot of – there is a lot of work there. Prince William County is recovering very quickly from the -- we were probably the first one into the recession, but we're also the first ones out. And business is thriving and doing very well. But look, the only thing that we would ask is that if you're going to come into our community, we welcome you, we just ask that you do so as a legal resident of the United States.

NNAMDIMike, thank you very much for your call. You said in an August op-ed piece in The Richmond Times-Dispatch, both sides of the illegal immigration debate agree on one thing, illegal aliens began fleeing Prince William, and as they did, our violent crime rate plummeted 37 percent. Some call that a coincidence. I don't think so, and I am not alone. That suggests to me that you feel that illegal immigrants were responsible for one-third of the violent crimes that were being -- more than one-third of the violent crimes that were being permitted -- committed in Prince William County even though the statistics don't reflect that.

STEWARTWell, look, today, the numbers of crimes committed by illegal aliens is low. And the reason, I believe is, is that frankly, a lot of illegal aliens and the University of Virginia and its report that goes out in November, its final report is going to show that illegal aliens didn't flee -- did in fact flee Prince William County. As they did, our violent crime rate did fall by 37 percent.

NNAMDIViolent crime rates, however, have been falling around the region. To what extent do you attribute that to the police work that's led to that, on the one hand, or to the fleeing of illegal immigrants, on the other?

STEWARTThere has been a long-term trend toward a declining crime rate across the nation. In fact, Loudoun and Fairfax Counties did have slight reductions in their crime rates over the same period of time, but they did not plummet like they did in Prince William County. In fact, the one jurisdiction that stood out from Prince William County and said, we're going to take the exact opposite approach on illegal immigration, in fact, we welcome illegal immigration, was Montgomery County, Md. And over the past three years, their violent crime rate has actually gone up by 3 percent. So, you know, it's difficult to say for certain what causes what but I don't think it's a coincidence that our crime rate plummeted like that.

NNAMDIIs that Ike Leggett on the phone? No, it's Donna. (laugh) It's Donna in Manassas, Va. Donna, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

DONNAYes, sir. I just wanna thank Chairman Corey Stewart, Supervisor John Stirrup and all our board of supervisors for taking a stance on a very difficult issue. Our resolution has never been about racism. It has been about what right does a select group of people have to come into our county, commit murders, derogate our neighborhoods at the expense of others? I know as a resident, in 2007, we had a triple homicide by an illegal immigrant from Mexico resulting in 12 felony convictions. Illegal immigrants were responsible for the majority of our murders that year and something is...

NNAMDIIs that correct, Corey Stewart? The majority of murders?

STEWARTYeah. Actually, that is correct. Four out of the seven murders in 2007 were committed by illegal aliens.

NNAMDIDonna...

DONNAAnd what I'd like to add to that is the fact that's never discussed is the criminal activity and the cost of prosecuting these illegal immigrants in jurisdiction. For example Mr. (unintelligible) Sanchez-Miranda...

NNAMDIOkay. I got to have Corey Stewart answer because we're almost out of time, Donna. Corey Stewart, please comment on Donna's.

SHERWOODHow costly is it?

STEWARTHow costly is illegal immigration? Well, it depends.

SHERWOODProsecution, all of those things. Most of that.

STEWARTThe cost of our program was -- is about a million and a half a year. And that cost is purely associated with hiring additional police officers who are used to fight all sorts of crime, not just crimes committed by illegal aliens. So I think that there's been a significant cost savings specifically in the schools where, you know, we did see that drop. There's been also cost savings to the hospitals, it's not a -- they're not county owned but there's -- the most important thing isn't the cost saving, it's the increased and enhance public safety.

NNAMDIDonna, thank you very much for your call. Corey Stewart is chairman of the Prince William Board of County Supervisors. He's a Republican. Corey Stewart, thank you very much for joining us.

STEWARTThank you, Kojo. Always a pleasure.

NNAMDIAlways a pleasure. Tom Sherwood is our resident analyst. He's an NBC 4 reporter and a columnist for The Current Newspapers. Tom, sometimes a pleasure.

SHERWOODYes. And I'd like -- maybe he'll come back and we'll talk about Prince William. It's a pretty, pretty cool place (unintelligible)...

NNAMDIWill you sing him "Happy Birthday?"

SHERWOODI'm not moving to Virginia regardless, but I would say that -- how many people live there, real quickly?

STEWARTFour hundred thousand.

SHERWOODFour hundred thousand. All right.

NNAMDIRemember this Tuesday, September 21. We're taking our show on the road with “Kojo In Your Community”. Come join us in Downtown Silver Spring for a special broadcast at the new Civic Building between Ellsworth Drive and Fenton Street. We'll be discussing local politics and how the physical transformations in Silver Spring have affected quality of life. Doors open at 5:45. I've got a great idea, Tom. The next time we have a membership drive, we'll have one of the prizes be you singing "Happy Birthday" to somebody. That would be...

SHERWOODI assure you that would kill that song forever and amen.