MR. KOJO NNAMDIFrom WAMU 88.5 and American University in Washington, welcome to "The Kojo Nnamdi Show," connecting your neighborhood with the world. Long walks on the beach, lounging by the pool with a good book, toasting the sunset with a tropical drink, they are all distant memories now. Monday is Labor Day and you know what that means, time to start thinking about a fall or winter getaway. The most expensive part of travel these days is often the lodging, but several new websites are offering deep discounts at top notch hotels. They're not getting a lot of press, but they could be saving you a lot of money.

MR. KOJO NNAMDIAt the same time, new protections are on the way for air travelers in this era of over-booking. New rules could boost the penalty airlines have to pay when they bump passengers who haven't volunteered. We've got tips and news to help you plan a trip without breaking the bank. And joining us to help do that is Jim Mathews, he's editorial director for Digital Properties with Aviation Week. He has visited us before when he was editor-in-chief of Aviation Week. Jim, congratulations. Good to see you again. Thanks for joining us.

MR. JIM MATHEWSGreat to be here.

NNAMDIJoining us from the studios of Minnesota Public Radio in St. Paul is Rudy Maxa, the host of "Rudy Maxa's World" on public television and contributing editor to National Geographic Traveler. Hi, Rudy, how are you doing?

MR. RUDY MAXAKojo, good to talk to you. Fine. How are you?

NNAMDIGood to hear from you, too. Rudy, finding a good hotel room can be a budget buster when you plan a trip. But several new websites are offering deep discounts at high-end hotels. Is there a lot of excess supply in the hotel business?

MAXAThere is. Here's the back story on it. You know, we're reading that airlines are finally making profits and that rental car companies are raising rates and we know airfares are going up. But you'll notice both of those industries, car rental companies and airlines, can quickly contract. In other words, rental car companies stopped buying so many new cars for their fleets. Airlines cut back the number of flights or park a few big planes in the Arizona desert and storm for a while.

NNAMDIYeah.

MAXAHotels, on the other hand, you can't exactly close down a luxury hotel for three years during a recession and then open it up again and say, hey, we're back.

MAXASo hotels have not enjoyed the same ability to raise prices and cut back capacity. In fact, capacities grow and there's going to be 7,000 new hotel rooms in New York City alone this year because these were projects that were begun three years ago and you couldn't stop it, stop them. So, yes, there's an excess capacity of hotel rooms to this day around the United States. So these websites have started up and I'll name a couple of them.

NNAMDIYes, please do.

MAXAJetsetter.com, VoyagePrive.com, BloomSpot.com. Travelocity has just started their top secret hotels and I can tell you there's another one that I'm not allowed to talk about until next week that's starting from a household name. Travel and Leisure magazine just started one. And these are all so-called membership, private clubs, except you pay nothing to join.

NNAMDIYeah, I joined Jetsetter.com this morning.

MAXAGood.

NNAMDIYeah.

MAXADid your producer suggest you because I suggested her yesterday?

NNAMDIWell, I heard -- I heard that you had mentioned it so I checked it out.

MAXAYeah. And that's sort of -- and they're very classy sites. And the reason they are membership-only is because hotels don't want their regular patrons or everybody in the world to know they're offering these deeply discounted rates. They don't want people to get used to these low rates. So they just funnel them through these distribution channels and hope to sell that excess inventory. As you saw on Jetsetter.com, this is not a weekend deal site.

NNAMDIOh.

MAXALike we've had with airlines, you know, this weekend you can fly from here to there. These sites often offer rooms up to three to four months out. Now, they may only have those available half the days in a particular month 'cause they know they're booked at a higher rate the other days. But -- and we're talking top hotels. We're not talking, you know, mom and pop highway interstate hotels. These are name brand hotels around the world at ridiculously low prices.

NNAMDIRudy got a room at a five-star hotel. I can't tell you how much he paid for it because, well, they don't want you to know.

MAXABut it was about -- I was in -- I was in Kennedy Airport and I was stranded at 6:00 p.m. in the evening. I was supposed to catch a flight to Bermuda, but it wasn't working. I had to stay the night in New York and there were no hotels around the airport. So for the heck of it, I thought, well, it's six o'clock. I'm not going to find anything. So I went on Jetsetter.com. And by the way, I'm not -- I have no relationship. I'm not a spokesman for Jetsetter. I'm not paid. But this is a true life thing that happened to me. I typed in New York City hotel and up came a hotel on Madison Avenue that is normally about $350 a night and it was available that night for $180.

NNAMDIWell, there it is.

MAXAAnd I booked it right there. And an hour later, I was checking in.

NNAMDIHe told.

MAXAI looked at -- yeah, and I've got some examples for you I'll give you later in the conversation, if you want, of ones today that I looked up so -- on a couple of sites.

NNAMDI800-433-8850. If you're looking for tips for your travel plans or you have any questions or comments about fall and winter travel, call us at 800-433-8850. You can go to our website, kojoshow.org, join the conversation there. Before we go to air travel, Rudy, some Web discounters are offering deals at vacation homes, cruises, restaurants and spas. How do we find those?

MAXAWell, probably right now the biggest -- one of the biggest sites for that is called, my son works there, BloomSpot.com, b-l-o-o-m BloomSpot. But they're only covering New York, L.A. and San Francisco. They're about to add three or four more cities. I think Washington is certainly on the list. And it's sort of like this popular website Groupon. It's a little more sophisticated and they negotiate deals with health spas, with, you know, very upscale beauty, well, things in hotels where you go and have your, you know, your massages and your facials and so on…

NNAMDISure.

MAXA...with restaurants. And it's something like -- I bought one from the company my son works for so full and fair journalistic disclosure here. I bought a -- I think it was a four-course meal at Le Cirque in New York that would normally cost $95 and I think I paid $48 for it.

NNAMDIReally?

MAXAAnd, you know, and you get a number, a code that's good for maybe seven months out. So those are -- that's worth looking at. We actually did...

NNAMDIAnd you didn't get a paternal discount.

MAXAI did not. No, I didn't. I did not.

NNAMDIAnybody can get that?

MAXABut let me tell you about a great site for vacation homes. This site knocks me out. It's only about five months old now. It's called PackLate.com. Now there's your late packer. And it was started by a guy who's an entrepreneur and he had -- he and his wife owned, still do, owned two homes in Park City, Utah. And they would try to rent them on the Web, you know, to people, if they weren't going to use them. And they noticed, you know, the more they drop the price, the closer to the season they want it to rent for, you know, the quicker the response was. And he kept saying to all his buddies, you know, I'm going to start a website. He finally did.

MAXAHe started a website called PackLate.com and it's different from the large VRBO, which is vacation rental by owner. VRBO is where individuals can put their condominiums, houses, whatever, anywhere around the world -- and it's a good site, up for rent to private individuals, other private individuals. Instead, he went to the property managers of places like Park City, you know, basically large condo and home complexes in popular vacation sites from Orlando to Costa Rica to Las Vegas and a lot of the ski areas of the West and said, give me your excess inventory. I want you to knock 35 percent off, right now, your retail price.

MAXAAnd then, the closer you get to the date on these properties, the price will drop 45 percent, 50 percent, 60 percent, et cetera. You can go in, again, you "sign up to join," quote/unquote, no charge. And you can actually put a watch on a particular property. You want to go skiing in Vail or Aspen next winter? I mean, you get five-bedroom homes for $350 a night. It's ridiculous, the prices.

NNAMDIWhoa.

MAXAI had a friend who went skiing, you know, rented a condominium with the Ritz Carlton in Beaver Creek for about half the price as the Ritz Carlton, the hotel, that's right next door to it, yet you have all the amenities of a hotel. You have -- I mean, you've bigger space. It's a great site, PackLate.com, if you're interested in vacation home packages.

INTERVIEWERRudy Maxa is host of "Rudy Maxa's World" on public television. He's a contributing editor to National Geographic Traveler. He joins us from the studios of Minnesota Public Radio in St. Paul. We're taking your phone calls, if you have tips or questions about fall travel, 800-433-8850. Or you can send us a tweet at kojoshow. Joining us in studio is Jim Mathews, editorial director for Digital Properties with Aviation Week. Jim, it seems to be harder these days to get super low airfares. What's going on with airline pricing?

MATHEWSWell, what's going on is that they took a lot of capacity out during the big recession. 2008, 2009, they took capacity out like they hadn't since 9/11. And now the traffic is coming back. And so far, they've had the discipline to add capacity back in very, very small increments. And what the pros look at is passenger revenue per available seat mile. And there's two things that affect that, right? It's how much money comes out of your wallet and how many seats there are for you to pay for. And if you keep the seats down and raise the fairs a little bit, that (word?) number goes way up. And it’s been going way up. It's probably going to be up about 14 percent for the year, if you take a look at all the months put together. You are seeing some fare sales in certain places. You always will. But certainly they've had some discipline and they've been able to kind of manage that trade-off with the capacity. The other thing they've been doing is they've been tacking on fees. You pay for snacks.

NNAMDIOh, yeah.

MATHEWSYou pay for bags. You pay for all kinds of things. And so what you're not getting anymore is that, you know, what you see is what you get. I mean, your base fare, it can be as little as 40 percent of what you wind up paying. And that's been great for the airlines. It's been not so great for the travelers.

NNAMDIAre these fees a big part of airline revenues? And are they likely to continue?

MATHEWSWell, they haven't been a huge part, but they've certainly been helpful. Remember, traditionally, this is an industry whose profitability has been measured in single percentage points. It doesn't take much for a particular route to be profitable in most cases. So having enough people pay 25 bucks to check their bags makes a difference. We have seen, it's certainly not the majority of the revenue, but it has really helped as far as, you know, keeping the balance sheets propped up.

NNAMDIWell, there's a new law. I was seeing that the Department of Transportation has proposed new protections for air travelers, in which if you go to some websites -- you can help me out with this, Jim. If you go to some website, they have to tell you every fee that they're charging for everything and you can go to one website, maybe Orbitz, and compare them all.

MATHEWSWell, what they're requiring is that they have to give complete transparency on all of those fees to all of the websites that you would now use to book your flight. So whether I go onto the airline's own site, if I go to Travelocity or Orbitz or Kayak, whatever site I use, I have to be able to see, as a consumer, not just my base fare, but what all of those fees are going to be for the segment that I book. So that transparency that the consumer used to have when the Internet first came in and blew up airline fares started to go away because they started adding all these fees in. That's going to restore the transparency and so the price-sensitive guys are going to be able to look at that and make better plans on what they're going to do.

NNAMDIYou'll know exactly everything you're being charged for. Here is Lorenzo in Fairfax, Va. Lorenzo, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

LORENZOYeah, I travel frequently to Toronto, Canada. Is there any website or something that I can save on hotels?

NNAMDIRudy?

MAXAWell, there are a profusion of websites. There are tons of websites from, you know, Hotels.com to Expedia. I mean, there is -- I don't know that there's a dedicated site for Toronto hotels. Have you gone to a site like Kayak and typed in hotels and put in Toronto?

LORENZOYeah, except the traditional websites...

MAXAYeah, I don't know of any.

LORENZO...hotels or any tips at all how I save?

MAXANo. I think if you're checking all the available websites and if you've joined -- you know, it's sporadic. I haven't seen a whole lot of Toronto properties on Jetsetter or these other websites I mentioned earlier, VoyagePrive and Bloomspot. But no, I think if you're checking all the websites, you're going to find out. You can always negotiate, too, don't forget.

NNAMDILorenzo, good luck to you. Thank you for your call. We move on to Jenna in Arlington, Va. Jenna, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

JENNAHi there. I am calling with an odd or random question. We are bringing our daughter-in-law and infant granddaughter here from Anchorage, Alaska, for a little visit and I wondered -- we're going to either buy two seats -- we're going to get the baby a seat because it's such a long trip or I could just get one first class ticket. Do you have an opinion on which would be most comfortable?

MAXAWhat do you think, Jim? Do you want to handle that one?

MATHEWSI'll jump in first. I think I'm going to put my safety hat on first. I like the idea of the baby having a dedicated seat. I know that, you know, there's debate about that, but I like the idea of the baby having a dedicated seat. Yes, you could book first class. You could do that and hold the baby on your lap. But honestly, I like the idea of being able to strap the baby in, let the baby sleep and I think that's a better way to go.

NNAMDIRudy?

MAXAI would tend to agree with Jim as well, yes. Now, am I (word?) ...

JENNAOkay.

MAXA...how old is this baby?

JENNAShe'll be six months.

MAXAYeah, I would...

JENNABut she's really a baby.

MAXA...think -- yeah, so she's not going to want to run around. Well, she can't...

MATHEWSRight.

MAXA...run around.

JENNANo.

MAXAYeah, I would certainly say a separate seat with a baby seat would be a lot more -- and be sure to have one -- whoever makes the reservation, tell the airline that you're putting a baby in that other seat. They may give you more preferential seating or maybe keep the seat next to them, if it's a three row deal, you know, separate.

MATHEWSAnd they'll keep you out of the exit row.

MAXAExactly -- and that ,too.

JENNAGreat, yeah, thank you.

NNAMDIJenna, thank you for your call. You, too, can call us if you want tips for your fall and winter travel or, frankly, for any kind of travel at 800-433-8850. You can go to our website kojoshow.org. Where do you want to go and how do you want to get there? Or you could send us a tweet at kojoshow. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.

NNAMDIWe're discussing fall and winter travel plans with Jim Mathews, editorial director for Digital Properties with Aviation Week and Rudy Maxa, host of "Rudy Maxa's World," on public television. Rudy's also a contributing editor to National Geographic Traveler. Jim, last week, the justice department gave its approval to the merger of Continental and United Airlines, paving the way for the creation of the world's biggest airline. What will that mean for passengers on those two airlines?

NNAMDIThe Washington Post reports that the combination of the country's third and fourth biggest airlines means that the number of industry players and options for flyers continues to shrink. The merger will leave just four traditional carriers in the U.S. and possibly three, if American Airlines responds by bidding for U.S. Airways as some analysts predict.

MATHEWSWell, it will. But it will leave four traditional carriers. That doesn't mean that the rest of the carriers are going to fold up their tents and go home. You know, it's interesting. The justice department looked pretty closely at that. And you'll notice that one of the things they did was they made them give up their slots at Newark Airport. That was the one area where it looked like it really would be a strangle hold. I mean, if you go through Newark Airport today, Continental is everywhere and so they made them give up 18 slot pairs at Newark Liberty. They gave them to Southwest.

MATHEWSNow, Southwest really didn't have any decent service into the New York area apart from -- you know, you can go to Long Island. But, you know, and for a lot of Americans, their favorite airline is Southwest. And if you wanted to go to see the Statue of Liberty or 34th Street Macy's and you wanted to use Southwest to get there, you were going to go to Long Island and you were going to take the Long Island railroad in. Well, now you get to go to Newark. Because you're going to get these frequencies in there from Southwest that used to be part of the Continental network. So, you know, there will be some tradeoffs.

MATHEWSThere will be some places where options will shrink. There will also be places where options will expand. Here in the Washington area, you're probably going to see competition continue to be kind of cut-throat. You know, you -- there was a really good study that was done pretty recently by a guy name Leo Schefer. He's been the head of the Washington airports task force for about as long as I can remember. And he took a look at the level of competitive choice in the Washington area that's going to result and it's going to be -- pretty much remain competitive.

MATHEWSThere was only one market, that was Washington or Houston or Continental, that was a pretty non-competitive route. But you can also use Southwest to go to Hobby. So overall, that's probably the pattern you're going to see. One or two places where there's probably not as much competition, but a lot of other places where competition will remain fierce.

NNAMDIAny comment on that merger at all, Rudy?

MAXAWell, I agree with Jim. One thing the Justice Department looked at was a number of -- or Department of Transportation looked at is a number of overlapping routes. And there weren't that many, fortunately, for those two airlines, fortunately for consumers, but Jim's absolutely right. The entrance of Southwest early next year to Newark is very -- a very big deal for folks around the country who want to come to New York cheaply and more efficiently than going all the way out to Long -- landing all the way out in Long Island.

NNAMDIHere's Anthony in Washington, D.C. Anthony, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

ANTHONYHey, how's it going? Thanks for taking my call. So I have a bit of a problem. I love traveling, but I hate tourists and I even hate being a tourist. So when I go overseas, I want to stay as far away from tourists as humanly possible. I don't want these super lux western style hotels. I don't really care, you know, to stay at the Marriott, enter the city, enter this country, you know? I want to stay at a bed and breakfast, very small, you know, resort owned by a family, you know, that has, like, 30 rooms where they're like, you know, natives of whatever country I'd like to be in -- around. And I'm have -- I'd have a lot of difficulty finding these places. Any help on that?

NNAMDIRudy?

MAXAWell, you should've come along with us on our shoot in Uzbekistan for my new seven shows that get released in October to public television stations. Not a lot of tourists there. I didn't meet another American in my nine days of shooting that show -- that episode. And particularly outside of Tashkent, there isn't a very nice intercontinental hotel in Tashkent. And, I think, there's a Radisson across the street, but other than that, the infrastructure isn't that developed. And so if you go to some of those silk road towns or cities, you will find a plethora of mom and pop, very lovely, very clean, very small inns everywhere. I mean, that's really where you have to stay. You have no choice. So I would put Uzbekistan on your list.

MATHEWSThe other thing you could do -- I have to jump in on this. My son spent a month in Mongolia this summer and he didn't even find inns. He did his homework and he arrived in the country and he literally just stayed with families along the way for an entire month. He would just hike to the next yurt, knock on the door and, hi, I'm American, I'd love to learn your language. Can I stay with you for a few days? And by golly, they let him.

NNAMDITell Anthony what you mean by, he did his homework.

MATHEWSWell, what he did was he spent a lot of time researching the country, researching how they deal with tourists, how receptive they are to people coming into the smaller towns and he discovered that most of Mongolia is pretty receptive to that. And so if you find destinations where, you know, the folks are traditionally welcoming, you may very well be able to get in touch with someone who is not even an inn, just someone who's willing to host a traveler in their space for a little while.

NNAMDIAnthony, did you have a particular country or a particular state in mind?

ANTHONYNot really. I mean, when I travel throughout Brazil, I was able to stay at a lot of small mom and pops, but I got to do that because I went with Brazilians I knew, who knew other Brazilians and things like that. But what I'm finding difficulty doing is sitting at home on my computer, finding places that I can book a room before I show up with my bags and I find myself homeless.

NNAMDIAny suggestions on that, Rudy? Outside of Uzbekistan.

MAXAWell, I mean, you know, you sort of -- one conflicts with the other often. You want something very simple and functional and local, yet you want the ease of being in your home in Washington, D.C. and -- or in the Washington, D.C. area and going on the internet and booking a room. And some of these -- certainly the places I say in Uzbekistan don't have the capability to have an internet site up and take reservations. Now, many do. I mean, I'm -- Uzbekistan is not that undeveloped at all, but you're going to have to make peace with a little bit of each.

MAXAYou know, even in the Caribbean -- I was just thinking, you've mentioned family owned hotels. Now, the Caribbean is one large tourism center. But the island of Nevis is very, very lush and there's a -- I've never stayed there, but I've visited it. There's a hotel called the Mount Nevis Hotel which is perched up by itself on a top of a hill. It's run by a family. It's got, I don't know, not many rooms. So even in a place as touristy as the Caribbean, you can find places like that...

NNAMDIOh, and your taxi driver can of...

MAXA...that are isolated (word?) .

NNAMDI...your taxi driver can often take you off the tourist track, if that's where you really want to go.

MAXAExactly, that's right. That's right.

NNAMDITake me to the neighborhood you live in. Here is -- Anthony, thank you very much for your call and good luck to you. Here is Donna in Upper Marlboro, Md. Donna, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

DONNAHi, Kojo, just love your show. I'll be traveling to Nigeria in December and I just want to know whether there's any advice on hotels or airlines. I'll take my answer off the air.

NNAMDIAny advice for Donna, Rudy?

MAXAI can't help her. I've never been to Nigeria so I cannot speak to that.

NNAMDIHow about you, Jim?

MATHEWSWell, I got to tell you, the Nigerian infrastructure, particularly in the airline side, has been growing pretty rapidly. In fact, African air travel in general has -- it declined along with the rest of the world, but not at the same pace that you saw in other places. Nigeria is getting much better as a destination. Really, The National Flag Carrier is where you want to go. You just want to Nigeria and you'll be able to -- you'll be okay.

NNAMDIDoes it help to consult a travel agency that specializes in going to that part of the world?

MATHEWSIt can help. It can help. But again, you know, the internet is a great resource for doing your homework. You can get onto -- certainly, if you want to start with the fares and availability, you can start with a kayak.com or somebody like that. But at the same time, be cautious, you know, that -- you do have interruptions in African air travel that you won't necessarily see in other parts of the world. It can be kind of an up and down proposition. But the flag carriers are doing a pretty good job. And don't over look the fact that you can fly into one country and then maybe get there another way. You could fly Ethiopian, for example, and make a big tour of it and, you know, take other carriers around the continent.

NNAMDIGood luck to you. We move on now to Kelsey in McLean, Va. Kelsey, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

KELSEYHi, I'm actually leaving in four hours to go to Europe for three and half months to study abroad. And I'm definitely planning on doing a lot of traveling when I'm there. But I just want to get your guys input on Euro Rail passes, just getting a ticket when I need it, the budget airlines, sort of who to avoid and any sort of interesting, not very -- not super cliché travel destinations.

MAXAThose are -- there are entire guide books written on each of those subjects. That was a lot of questions. Where are you going to be based?

KELSEYBut -- Brussels.

NNAMDIBrussels.

MAXAIn Brussels, well, you got great train service from there. I mean, you really have to study those Euro Rail passes and read the fine print to see when they expire, how much time you have to use them and what range of countries you can use with each individual pass. It is an incredibly confusing menu so you want to have that straight in your mind.

KELSEYThat's what I was...

MAXAOne thing I would suggest, my step-daughter is about to leave on Tuesday to study for three months in Florence. And one thing I would suggest is a carry-on luggage -- a piece of luggage you carry with you for the short trips you're going to be taking with a bicycle lock so you can affix it to the seat in your trains. There's a lot of theft.

KELSEYOh.

MAXAParticularly of students going abroad, they'll fall asleep during a train ride -- I, unfortunately, had a friend who was -- was an overnight train ride from Italy to an Eastern European country. And she woke up and she had been a -- well, you know, something put over her face so she's -- she passed out. So she had everything stolen, her passport, her iPod, her cell phone, her bags.

KELSEYOh, my God.

MAXAYou never know. Everything except the shirt...

KELSEYThat's literally my father's...

MAXA...on her back.

KELSEY...worst nightmare.

MAXAWell, it's -- it happens so do you have (unintelligible) .

NNAMDIHopefully, your father's not listening.

MAXAYeah, right, exactly. I'm not saying it's a commonplace thing, but be aware. It happens so keep your wits about you, lock that bag to whatever you're sitting on so somebody can't slide it with their foot or -- and then have it disappear while you're reading a magazine or napping.

NNAMDIJim, any advice on discount or low budget airlines in Europe, if Kelsey wants to get around?

MATHEWSOne thing, Kelsey, I would point out is that compared to say, 10 years ago, there are lots and lots of low fare carriers that will get you from A to B, all around the European continent for, you know, the equivalent of $20, $30.

KELSEYRight.

MATHEWSI mean, this is just not expensive. Will you get really, really nice service? No. You know, you'll get, effectively, a subway car in the air.

KELSEYI'm fine with that.

MATHEWSBut that's the thing. If the objective is to go and see something in a different place and experience a different culture, pay the $30 and hop into another country. You can do that now. You couldn't do it 10 years ago. You can do it now. And if you plan ahead, even a little bit, you'll save even more money.

NNAMDIAnd take care about this. We've -- this comment we got posted by Kay on our website. "Recently, when I was in -- on a trip in Italy, I decided to take some time out and go to Paris for a week. Usually, I would research travel online. But the small Italian town I was staying in had very poor internet access so, without any online research, I bought a round trip ticket from Rome to Paris and back from Ryan Air. Only after I bought the ticket that I find out that the airport they use is a full two hours from Paris.

NNAMDII was planning to travel with friends already in France, but because of the location of the airport, I wasn't able to work out a way to match my schedules with theirs and I end up -- ended up forfeiting the flight. I have since heard that Ryan has a terrible reputation and misleads its customers. I think that stating that their flight is to Paris is wrong and shouldn't be allowed. Is there anything I can do to get a refund?" Anything that person can do from Ryan?

MAXAThe refund is -- you can try. The refund is going to be problematic. I agree. I mean, it's really -- it's a little bit -- honestly, is a little bit like saying that you're flying into the New York area when you fly into Long Island. It's not a whole lot different. If you look online, though, when you do these flights, it's really important, look at the airport code. And just -- and you can even go to Google and put in an airport code.

NNAMDIIndeed.

MAXATake a look...

NNAMDIAnd they'll tell you where the airport is.

MAXA...and they'll tell you where the airport is. And if it says, you know, you're going to Rome but you're really going to, you know, East Armpit airport three hours away, you know, you can take that into account. A little bit -- just 30 seconds to look that up will really help you out.

NNAMDIWell, Kelsey, you'll be on your way in four hours, good luck. Have fun.

KELSEYThank you.

NNAMDIOn now to Arthur in Lovettsville, Va. Arthur, your turn.

ARTHURI want to thank you, Kojo. Kojo, I have a daughter that lives in Athens and I anticipate going to a wedding in the spring and I do not want to fly. What options do I have as a means of getting from the Baltimore, Wa. area to Athens?

NNAMDIIt's a pretty long hike.

MAXAOh, brother.

NNAMDIThat is.

MAXAYeah, exactly. That -- I mean, there are certainly, as far as I know, no cruise ships that leave from nearby you to go to Athens. I mean, there are certainly many cruise ships that call on Athens -- the Port of Piraeus as a destination, but you may have to get over to Europe to get them. And that usually involves a flight unless you take a cross -- a transatlantic crossing out of New York and then hook up with another ship. We're talking a huge amount of money and a long time.

MATHEWSYeah, I mean, you could transatlantic cruise to say, you know, Continental Europe and then, I don't know, hop a train. But you're right, that's hugely expensive and we're probably looking at, what, two weeks total transit time? By the time you're...

MAXASure, yeah.

MATHEWS...all done.

MAXAJust to get to Athens, yeah, and back.

NNAMDIArthur, do you have a lot of time on your hands?

ARTHURI do. I'm retired and I would be interested in going to some travel to avoid flying.

NNAMDIWell, sound...

ARTHURAnd expense.

NNAMDI...sounds like the advice that has been given to you may be the route you want to take. Take one cruise ship to one location and then another to Athens.

MAXAIt's going to be very expensive. There aren't many transatlantic cruises really, are there Jim? I mean, Cunard is probably the leader in that.

MATHEWSThat's just about it.

MAXAFrom New York. And it's not like there's a lot of competition on transatlantic routes so prices aren't cheap. And then, you may have to spend a few days in a hotel in London, you know, some -- wherever you land before you can find another cruise that's going to get you to Athens so...

MATHEWSAnd the only alternative...

MAXA...takes a lot of planning.

MATHEWS...and the only alternative of that, of course, is that, you know, you take the boat to Europe and maybe take a couple of different train rides connecting through various European cities until you can finally get to Athens.

MAXAThat's true. That's true. The train from Europe, yeah.

MATHEWSYeah, but it's not going to be easy.

ARTHURNo, I...

MAXAIt's not going to be easy or inexpensive.

ARTHURYeah. I assumed that it was not going to be easy and I assumed it was not going to be cheap. But just in terms of what the logistics might be, I was curious. So it sounds to me like the transatlantic ship, plus some train rides might get me there.

MAXAIt would definitely get you there, yes. Yes. And that you have time on your hands is a good thing.

NNAMDIArthur, thank you very much for your call.

ARTHURThank you.

NNAMDIHappy hunting.

ARTHURThank you.

NNAMDIWe had a caller who couldn't stay on the line, Rudy, who wants to know where a traveler can get vaccines for yellow fever in stopovers when there are five or -- no. They -- I just want -- I guess they just want to know where they can get vaccines for yellow fever, period.

MAXAWell, there are -- if you just Google or do a web search on any web -- just type in travel -- you know, travel vaccinations or what's the word I'm searching for?

MATHEWSImmunizations?

MAXAThere are all these -- yeah. Immunization or just travel clinics. That's what I'm trying...

MATHEWSThere you go.

MAXAThere are any number of travel clinics in almost every big city that will have every -- you know, the full menu for you, the full Monty. You tell them where you're going to go and they'll shoot you up and give you your pills and you're on your way.

NNAMDIWe got this tweet from Sam, "Is there an ideal day or time to book tickets online to get the lowest fare? I remember hearing that the beginning of the week is better than the end." Jim?

MATHEWSMostly true. It depends on where you're going and it depends on what season of the year you're talking about. For instance, beginning of the week going to, say, Florida vacation destinations? Yeah, absolutely. Because the typical family is going to spend a week and they're going to use the weekend and then they're going to get back home. You can do pretty well if you can fly midweek to midweek, for example, in that situation. But that's not necessarily true everywhere.

MATHEWSIf there's a big festival going on in a given place, if there's a big event going on -- like, look what happened down in Florida a few weeks ago when they had the Celebration Five for the Star Wars anniversary. That started on a Thursday. Try flying there on a Tuesday or a Wednesday before that event kicked off. Forget it. So you really have to look at what's going on locally.

NNAMDIRudy, any tips?

MAXAHey Jim -- well, you know, it used to be a truism when I started as a sort of consumer travel guy, lo these 17 years, 18 years ago in D.C. Maybe, Jim, you know the answer to that. It used to be one standard piece of advice was don't try to -- don't book a seat on the weekend because that's when airlines are trying to raise their fares and watching to see if the competitors match them. And if by Monday morning the competitors on those same routes haven't matched them, they'll drop them back down. Is that valid anymore, Jim?

MATHEWSIt's valid. But again, you have to look on sort of a city pair basis almost. I mean, there's certain places where they're just not going to be able to make that stick. And, you know, there are particularly business-type destinations, you know, where the weekend travel is always going to be light. You know, you can sometimes do well on a weekend fare in those kinds of places, but you're basically -- you're correct.

NNAMDIWe're gonna have to take a short break. When we come back, we'll continue this conversation with Jim Mathews and Rudy Maxa on fall and winter travels. The lines are busy so if you would like to communicate with us, go to our website kojoshow.org, our Facebook, send us a tweet @kojoshow or an email to kojo@wamu.org. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.

NNAMDIWelcome back to our conversation on fall and winter travel with Jim Mathews, editorial director for Digital Properties with Aviation Week, and Rudy Maxa, host of "Rudy Maxa's World" on public television and contributing editor to National Geographic Traveler. Jim, the Department of Transportation has proposed new protections for air travelers, including increasing compensation for passengers who are involuntarily bumped from flights and allowing passengers to make and cancel reservations within 24 hours without any penalty. Will these new rules make air travel a better experience?

MATHEWSSlightly better. (laugh) No. I think that, you know, sure, it's going to help those people who have been booked and lose their seat and they don't want to. But I think there's been a sense that the airlines are out there just, you know, willy-nilly kicking people out of their seats. And airlines don't like to do that, as it is. They already endure costs when they do that. They -- sometimes the cost is as simple as a problem kind of getting kicked down the line to the next flight. Sometimes the cost is putting you up in a hotel. They don’t...

NNAMDIThey don't deliberately overbook?

MATHEWSThey deliberately overbook, but most of the time, statistically, they can manage it in such a way that it doesn't hurt them that badly. Will this kind of tip the incentives a little bit? Yeah, it probably will. I think you probably will see the rate of involuntary, you know, getting kicked out of your seat is gonna be less likely. Will that improve passenger crowding? Will that improve delays? Will that improve, you know, all the other things that we've seen over the past few years? Probably not.

NNAMDIWell, Rudy, in the spring, the Department of Transportation said airlines cannot leave passengers sitting in a plane on the tarmac for more than three hours. What impact has that had?

MAXAWell, you know, I've got to eat some crow on this. I was against that rule. My theory was that if I'm second in line to take off and the storm that's above me or whatever storm wherever is causing us a delay is about to clear and it's, you know, two hours and 55 minutes or two hours and 45 minutes, I'd rather wait another 20 minutes and get to my destination than be taken back to the gate and everybody get off. And got to figure out the luggage and see if there are any other flights and those flights are all full. And I thought it was going to be a mess.

MAXABut incredibly, at least for the last two months or the last two months that Department of Transportation has released figures -- I think probably June is the most recent one. I may be wrong, and Jim would know that better than I do, but the number of flights that have been delayed three hours or longer just plummeted, I mean, from several hundred to, like, 13 both months. Am I coming close to the truth here, Jim?

MATHEWSYou are. You absolutely are. It...

MAXAWhat's going on? I -- did you believe that I --did you believe it was a bad idea as I did?

MATHEWSI did. I was in your camp so you've got to share some of that crow with me.

NNAMDIYou're both writers. You can sit there for three hours and write something.

NNAMDIOther passengers can't do that. They don't have anything else to do.

MAXAWell, most people on a plane want to get somewhere, Kojo. And if the pilot says, well, I'm sorry, but we've got a federal law and we're going to be fined over a million dollars for this one aircraft if we don't get you back to the gate by -- in three hours, I'm going, wait a minute. We -- everybody wants to get somewhere. That's why they got on the plane. Now, do I want to stay nine hours overnight is Rochester, Minnesota, in a snow storm? No. Of course, I don't. But I thought the airlines might deal with that themselves. I do know that -- I guess what it's done is made maybe pilots and an airline's own controllers who deal with airport controllers say, hey, that guy has been waiting two and a half hours now. Either get him to the front of the line or we're in trouble. Is that -- I think that's what's going on, to some extent.

MATHEWSTo some extent that's what happening. But they're also being a lot more careful about booking the -- scheduling the slot. They're paying a lot more attention to whether -- they're trying to do their best to address that stuff before they put the people on the airplane, if things start to look marginal, those kinds of things. They're doing a lot of things sort of around the edges of it to reduce that number.

NNAMDIAfter two and half hours...

MAXAThey said...

NNAMDIGo ahead, Rudy.

MAXAI was just saying, in that case, it's a good thing. I mean, I do remember the old days. I used to always get a kick out of when we had these little airline guides. I don't know if they still publish it. But you'd look at departures from Chicago and there'd be, like, 13 flights departing at twelve o'clock.

MATHEWSYeah, exactly.

MAXAWell, there aren't 13 runways in Chicago. I mean, there's no way there were 13 flights departing at twelve o'clock and you knew it. And maybe they're getting better about not doing that.

MATHEWSThey are.

NNAMDIAnd if you've been sitting there for two and a half hours, it can make you a little edgy and you might want to yell at a flight attendant. The Jet Blue flight attendant who pulled the emergency slide, grabbed a beer, made a dramatic exit from the plane has gotten his 15 minutes of fame. But let's talk about passengers. Are they really getting more rude and unruly, Rudy?

MAXAWell, I don't know. There aren't a lot of studies on that. But can I just say, I was in New York that entire week that that Jet Blue guy went down the emergency exit chute at JFK...

NNAMDIAnd you weren't happy.

MAXAI was not happy. And both the New York tabloids, The Daily News and The Post, were having a ball with it, you know. The new American hero, the take- this-job-and-shove-it guy, the little guy who, you know, roars -- the mouse that roars. And I felt just the opposite. I mean, those emergency chutes, they don't like unfold like some luxurious Asian carpet that you're looking at on a floor at an Istanbul rug shop. They shoot out with an amazing amount of force that could kill somebody or somebodies if they hit them on the tarmac. So I don’t think this guy was a hero.

MAXAI think he was an idiot, basically, and I've said so in many venues and haven't gotten sued yet so I guess I can say it here. Well, I'll guess you'll get sued, Kojo. (laugh) No. I just think he was -- and, you know, and still nobody's found the person whose luggage apparently cut him on the head. And some people said he was cranky before anybody got on. And, you know, I'd say look, you know what your job is, it's not news to you that some people are rude. Get over it or get another job.

NNAMDICare to comment at all...

MAXAAre people being more cranky? Yeah. People probably are being more cranky.

NNAMDIJim Mathews, people -- are people being more cranky on airlines, Jim?

MATHEWSWell, people are more stressed when they travel these days for sure. So we are...

MAXAYeah.

MATHEWS...seeing some of that. Certainly, the flight attendants' union will tell you that the incidents against flight attendants are rising and I believe that. I mean, I believe that anecdotally from just flying around the system. Now, that said, I got to say, you know, the flight attendant is supposed to be the grown up here. (laugh) You know, and I realize there were some things in his personal life that were going poorly for him. He was very stressed. There were lots of things, and I'm sure that some version of that incident, the way it was described, probably came out that way.

MATHEWSShe probably was pretty nasty about getting her bag out and it probably did conk him on the head. The reason we send you to school and the reason you get a paycheck is that you're supposed to smile and say, please sit down, ma'am. And clearly he snapped. And I actually think it's more tragic than anything else. Passengers are grumpy, he was grumpy. Everyone had a bad day. And it's certainly, you know, kind of sad that we find this guy to be a hero when really he's just an overstressed guy.

NNAMDIEnough said. Here's Marilyn in Washington, D.C. Marilyn, your turn. Go ahead, please.

MARILYNIs there any hope that it will ever happen that short distance flights, like, from Washington D.C. to Wilkes-Barre or Williamsport, Pa., or (word?) , N.Y. will not cost as much as flights to the west coast?

MAXAOr a flight to Europe.

MARILYNI live in Washington. I'm blind so I can't drive. It's outrageous to have to pay over $500 to fly to Wilkes-Barre, Pa. and back.

MATHEWSIt's a very, very tough situation. You know, the economics of it -- and I know you've probably heard this explanation a hundred times before, but if there's only eight people a day going between city A and city B, and I'm exaggerating a little, you can't charge 50 bucks for that kind of a flight. You just can't. That said, is there room for some of those fares to come down? Absolutely. And particularly if you use the right kind of aircraft where the operating costs are low, you can probably bring that down. And localities have a big role to play in that. Finding ways to attract airlines to serve their smaller airports and there are airports that have done a really good job with that over the years.

NNAMDIBut no solution right now to your specific problem, Marilyn, but thank you very much...

MARILYNMy only solution has been to take the Greyhound bus.

NNAMDII hear you. But thank you very much for bringing it up.

MARILYN(unintelligible)

NNAMDIOn now to Stacy in Randallstown, Md. Stacy, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

STACYHi Kojo. Thank you for taking my call. First-time caller, long-time listener.

NNAMDIThank you.

STACYI was in -- thank you. I was interested about safaris and I wanted to know if the gentleman would know anything about that. I looked actually online last night and there's so many options out there on the Internet, I didn't know what direction to go on. I wasn't sure what was legit, what wasn't legit. But with some of the cruises -- they also have Mediterranean as well as African cruises and I didn't know whether or not to try to do the safari alone or go ahead and go with the cruises.

NNAMDIRudy.

MAXAWell, you know, I've never done a safari -- I've done two safaris in my life, one in Kenya...

STACYReally?

MAXA...and one in South Africa, but I've never done anything tied in with a cruise. That's sort of interesting.

STACYOkay.

MAXAI didn't know you could get a package that included a cruise and that.

STACYYeah.

MAXAThey're probably pretty pricey. It's probably pretty expensive...

STACYMm-hmm.

MAXA...to do those, isn't it? I would first narrow down the country...

STACYOkay.

MAXA...and the season and that just is some research. You know, you go online and find out when the -- when you might see the most animals or when it's the least rainy or most rainy, because the animals come out for the rain and the water, in the country you want to go to. I would make...

STACYOkay.

MAXA...an evaluation about the safety of that country. I would check airfares to those countries and see how expensive they are and I would talk to -- I would go to blogs where people write about safaris. And if you don't know any friends who have been on safari and no particular company or travel agency...

STACYI don't.

MAXA...go read about folks who -- that's --go on a blog, go, you know, type in -- search under blogs for, you know, safari blogs and see what other people are recommending. I don't think you have to worry a whole lot about illegitimate companies.

STACYOkay.

MAXACertainly if you pay with a credit card and you check out that they're legitimate travel agencies, I think you're okay. But I would decide where you want to see and how..

STACY(unintelligible) South Africa...

MAXAI'm sorry?

STACYI'm sorry. I was going to ask you, when you went to Kenya and South Africa, which one did you prefer?

MAXAWell, Kenya was -- well, Kenya was years ago and I went on a British Airways package.

STACYOh.

MAXAAirlines that serve Africa have safari packages where they tie in the airfare and the ground thing and that could be an -- that was a very economical one. The last one I did was about a year and a half ago for -- we did a safari show for PBS -- for my PBS series, excuse me, that comes out in a couple months. And that was in South Africa and that was a little more upscale. And that was with a company that just changed its name, and it's so awkward, it's called & Beyond.

STACYAnd Beyond.

MAXABut the "and" is an ampersand. The "and"...

STACYOkay.

MAXA...is -- and A-N-D is an ampersand so it's & Beyond. It's a very top flight company. It's, I would say, sort of up -- the upper sort of echelon of expenses. Not the top, but they've got some gorgeous property, gorgeous, you know, reserves and I would certainly recommend it. I don't know how -- I guess it's probably &beyond.com or the word andbeyond.com. You can look them up.

NNAMDIStacy, thank you for your call. Good luck to you. Jim, Delta Air airlines has made a change in the rules for its frequent fliers, widening eligibility for a free seat upgrade. What does this mean for frequent fliers and will it prompt other airlines to do the same?

MATHEWSI think we're going to have to see how others -- how people will respond, depending how the traveler responds. I mean, the average traveler will tell you that it's harder and harder to cash in frequent flier miles for anything else so to try and find ways to sweeten the pot in other ways. But people are still abandoning those kinds of programs.

NNAMDIHere's Melissa in...

MAXAWhat...

NNAMDIGo ahead, Rudy.

MAXACan I say one thing just very fast, Kojo?

NNAMDIYes.

MAXAI am now an expert on Delta Airlines since I live in huge hub of Minneapolis/ St. Paul...

NNAMDISure.

MAXA...since moving here from D.C. If you're going to a popular destination like a business place, like, for example, between Minneapolis/St. Paul and New York, there's so many business travelers who are such -- much higher elite status over you that those of us on award tickets are never going to get upgraded. But if you're going just somewhere that's not very busy and you have an award ticket, it's nice to know you'll get automatically upgraded if there's seats available. It will be interesting to see if other airlines follow suit for award tickets and cash and mile tickets that hitherto were not eligible for upgrades without using more miles.

NNAMDIEmma in Vienna, Va., please make it quick. Hi, Emma, are you there?

EMMAYes, I am.

NNAMDIYou only have about 30 seconds.

EMMAOkay. Really quick. I've lived in Europe for the last decade and just a couple of hints. I think a lot of Americans are not aware that every train station in Europe has a housing bureau and that's a really good way to find inexpensive housing. And I rarely ran into an American when I went there. And secondly, about flying, is to look at the airport's website itself and see which low cost airlines fly into that airport because they don't show up on Expedia or Travelocity.

NNAMDIThank you very much for those recommendations. We are just about out of time. Rudy Maxa, thank you for joining us.

MAXANice to be with you both, thanks you guys.

NNAMDIRudy Maxa is host of "Rudy Maxa's World" on public television and a contributing editor to National Geographic Traveler. Jim Mathews, thank you for joining us.

MATHEWSThank for having me.

NNAMDIJim is editorial director for Digital Properties with Aviation Week. And thank you all for listening. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.