MR. KOJO NNAMDIIt's Your Turn, 800-433-8850. What did you think about President Obama's speech last night about the end of the U.S. combat mission in Iraq? What do you think of the upcoming election, either here in the District of Columbia or anyplace else? 800-433-8850. And the Washington Post reported this morning that a new device known as a mosquito has been positioned outside the Gallery Place Metro Station. It emits a whining sound that can only be heard by young ears and it's designed to prevent loitering. You can tell us what you think about that, 800-433-8850. Send us an e-mail to kojo@wamu.org or go to kojoshow.org and join the conversation there or send us a tweet @kojoshow. On the telephone is Daniel Okonkwo. He is Executive Director of D.C. Lawyers for Youth, which works to improve the juvenile justice system in Washington, D.C. Daniel Okonkwo, thank you for joining us.

MR. DANIEL OKONKWOGood afternoon, Kojo. Thank you for having me.

NNAMDIDaniel, what is your response to the installation of this quote/unquote "mosquito" device?

OKONKWOWell, I think, Kojo, that this goes to a much larger issue of how the city views our kids. It seems that a device like this tells our young people that this is your city as long as you're not in this area of it. You know, there are very few nighttime activities or evening activities in a lot of the more disadvantaged areas of the city. And when kids leave there to come to Gallery Place, which is attractive -- would be attractive to any teenager just like the mall in my hometown was attractive to me, they're basically told by the businesses there, we want you to move along.

NNAMDIWhat, in your view, is a good solution to the concerns of business owners and teenagers -- business owners and others about teenagers idling around the street and maybe getting into fights. We all remember the reports of the apparent brawl they had on the metro a few weeks ago. And there seems to be a concern about teenagers just hanging out and -- with the possibility of getting into trouble and that keeps people out of businesses. What -- how would you have those business owners address their concerns?

OKONKWOWell, I think that that is a concern and, you know, I would never say that there aren't, you know, incidents where people are intimidated and the fight did happen. I also think that if businesses are concerned, I think one of the things they should look at is, you know, their politicians here serve them, too. And there are plenty of ways to advocate and to donate money for programming for kids that are -- don't involve, you know, kids mingling around.

OKONKWOBut -- and I want to say that I don't think that's a bad thing. They still have -- kids still have the right to congregate. You know, there's precious few activities for kids. And, you know, there were, you know, there used to be nightclubs. And I don't know that that's the best activity, but, you know, who am I to say? I mean, kids will get together. They just don't have as many opportunities in certain areas of the city as they do in Gallery Place. I mean, and this -- you have to realize where this is, is this is also the confluence of, you know, three major bus lines, three major metro lines and this device affects people just waiting at the bus stop. So it's kind of an indiscriminate situation.

NNAMDIThe less people believe that this was a device that was installed by Metro -- it was not. It was installed by one of the businesses there, as was first reported by the Prince of Petworth blog before it was picked up by other news media, including the Washington Post. But put yourself in the position of a business owner, Daniel Okonkwo, who has seen a 50 percent deterioration in business since, A, reports of the fight on metro broke out and, B, more and more kids congregating in his or -- in front of his or her business.

NNAMDIHe does not have the option of waiting for quote/unquote "long-term solution" of the city putting programs in place that would attract these young people, of legislation being voted on. What is that business owner, who seems -- himself or herself, losing money right now, what would you advise that business owner to do?

OKONKWOWell, there are a number of things that businesses can do. If they -- if they're unable to wait for a long-term legislative solution, you know, they could feel free to institute programs of their own. There are plenty of programs right now in the city that do offer programs for kids that are woefully underfunded, you know, programs all over this city. Those programs can be supported. I don't think that sending a message that we don't want you here is going to be conducive for them in the long term. You know, kids patronize these businesses, too.

OKONKWOAnd I think that it's also worth noting that devices like this paint all kids with the same brush. There are college kids in D.C. that engage in just the same unruly behavior. If you've ever been down around this area after a Washington Capitals game, I dare say, it's not quiet. And, you know, to have a device that targets kids of a certain age, I think, sends a very poor message.

NNAMDIOn to the telephones. Let's see what Chris in Washington D.C. has to say about this. Chris, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

CHRISHi. I agree with a lot of what your last speaker said.

NNAMDIYes.

CHRISIn that it paints all kids with the same brush. And if somebody discovered a sound that only African-Americans could hear and found off-putting and they decided they didn't want African-Americans in their store, we'd have a major problem with that. But because this is a group of young people who don't have...

NNAMDIOr if somebody developed a device that only women could hear or only gay people could hear or...

CHRISExactly.

NNAMDI...only men could hear.

CHRISWe discount young people because they don't have a political voice so we don't see them as full citizens of our society.

NNAMDIOkay. Thank you very much. Daniel Okonkwo, would you agree?

OKONKWOI would -- I would agree. I mean, I think that's one of the -- I think that's a message that kids get. You know, one of the complaints, I think, that is echoed both in blog comments and I think when people talk about this issue is that kids aren't respectful and they're loud and they're unruly. But the respect concern is one, I think, that crops up a lot. And my answer to that is that may be true, kids are loud, but we have to show them the respect, too. And when we discount their wants and needs because they don’t play a part in the political process, how does that show that we respect their rights and respect them? And so for us to demand it of them, we should demand it of ourselves. And so I do agree with what that last caller just said.

NNAMDIOkay. Here's Devin in Silver Spring, Md. Devin, your turn.

DEVINHi, Kojo. I just wanted to say that as much as the owner may be trying to target a certain audience, it probably isn't working. Because I am well older than the intended range and I can hear the sound perfectly well and it's extremely off-putting. And I think that they're going to lose business from clients that they want to have as well.

NNAMDII have the opposite reaction, Devin. I am incensed that I can't hear the sound if I go there.

DEVINWell, I'm sorry to hear that.

NNAMDIIt's discriminating against me, in this situation, creating a sound that I can't hear. But Devin, tell me what it sounds like in real life.

DEVINIt's a high-pitched whining noise.

NNAMDIAnd what effect did it have on you?

DEVINMakes me not want to hear it anymore.

NNAMDIWhat I wonder, Daniel Okonkwo or Devin, would be the effect on a baby being wheeled in a stroller when that sound comes out.

OKONKWOYou know, I don't know. And, you know, this may speak to the recklessness of installing this. I don't know what the effects of that are.

DEVINWell, I have a four-year-old daughter. And given all the research that's come out lately about how children are having their hearing damaged younger and younger by loud noises, like having ear phones in their heads all the time, I certainly won't be taking her around Gallery Place to go shopping.

NNAMDIIt's my understanding that on the Mosquito website, the -- it alleges that it does -- it is not painful and it does not do significant damage. We have linked to that website, but keep in mind that's on the Mosquito website, not on the website of any news medium or anyone else who has investigated this. But Devin, thank you very much for your call.

DEVINThank you.

NNAMDIWe got this comment posted on our website, kojoshow.org, by Mike in Columbia Heights. "I can't believe this is considered a solution to drive kids away by using annoying noise. It seems an easy way out, avoiding, rather than dealing with, the real problem, whatever the real problem in this case is. The more kids we push away, the larger the problem will grow. Youth will continue to feel disenfranchised and alienated from society. I am outraged at this." Last month, your organization, Daniel Okonkwo, held a candidates forum for those running for city council seats. What would you like to see from the city council in terms of youth-related policies?

OKONKWOWow. I can tell you right now I have a laundry list.

NNAMDIOh, well, the first thing. The first two things.

OKONKWOBut no. I think what we would want to see is our council making -- telling kids that they matter and that their long-term prospects in the city are good. One of the things I would first like to see them do is strike the provision in the confidentiality legislation to stop the access of the public to juvenile records after a conviction. You know, we believe that this a piece of legislation -- a part of legislation that will result in the employment prospects of our young people being diminished. And so that's one of the things I would like to see them -- the council to do immediately.

NNAMDIOkay. Here now is Matt in McClean, Va. Matt, your turn. Go ahead, please.

MATTWell, I've heard of some businesses in other cities that, instead of using a high-pitched noise, use something else that's often guaranteed to drive away young people, classical musical and opera, which I find interesting as a music teacher in that, yes, it could work as a deterrent, but that could also turn children and teenagers on to something they might not be as familiar with. And also, on the flip side, a few months ago, one of my students showed me a ringtone that they had found online and he played it for me. And I have some high-end hearing damage from being a music teacher and I couldn't hear it. So kids have started to use this to their advantage.

NNAMDIYes. And we will get to that in a second. But I'd like to hear Daniel Okonkwo, first, on if that same person got rid of the Mosquito and started playing, oh, classical musical and opera, would you object?

OKONKWOI mean, I object to the sentiment of wanting to...

NNAMDIFor the purpose of it.

OKONKWO...drive kids away. But, you know, I don't think that that's harmful. I mean, I think, you know, some -- this is clearly not -- classical music, in my opinion, isn't as grating on the ears as a high-pitched whine.

NNAMDIOh, it's not supposed to be grating on the ears at all...

OKONKWORight.

NNAMDI...if you happen to play classical music and opera. But, of course, if you're playing classical music and opera in a business that's catering to people who are purchasing, oh, skateboards, then I guess that won't really (laugh) that won't really work. But Matt, thank you very much for you call. In terms of the other thing that Matt mentioned earlier, here is Jason in Springfield, Va. Jason, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

JASONHi, Kojo. I'm a high school teacher and yeah, indeed, my students have cell phones. They almost all -- almost all of them do and they have these ringtones that -- that I can't hear. And we went to the website in class and they were showing me. I teach anatomy and physiology so we were talking about hearing. And they were like, yeah, you can't hear that? I said, no, I can't hear it at all. And they said, well, it's my phone ringing. And so kids are smarter than you give them credit for. And it's kind of interesting that they're actually the use same technology to keep adults away that the adults are trying to use to keep them away.

NNAMDISo how do you handle this in class, Jason, the fact that you now know that you cannot hear those ringtones that your students have on their cell phones and therefore have no ability to control whether or not they're taking calls or -- while you are teaching class?

JASONI am fortunate enough that I have a decent population of kids and it's not that big of a problem in my class. And given the fact that they, you know, that they are telling me about this, I sort of trust their honesty. But it's not really a problem in my classroom, per se, but...

NNAMDIIt could be.

JASONSo...

NNAMDIOkay.

JASON...I just thought it was interesting.

NNAMDIThank you very much for sharing that with us, Jason. We move on to Jack in Washington, D.C. Jack, your turn. Go ahead, please.

JACKHello?

NNAMDIYes, Jack. You're on the air. Go ahead, please.

JACKHey, how you doing, Kojo?

NNAMDII'm well.

JACKI was just calling in regard to the situation with downtown. Mainly, it's that one area right next to Zengo, as soon as you come up the elevator, I think, where the AT&T store is. This is a perfect opportunity for the city and the business improvement district to make a strategic alliance. Put some live musicians down there, some jazz musicians, some go-go musicians, some...

NNAMDIThere are often some drummers out there, aren't there, some go-go drummers?

JACKGet -- I mean, appeal to the arts, you know, and maybe get a youth advocacy officer there to talk to the people to say, listen, okay, you know, we're not here to arrest you guys. We're not here to do anything bad to you, but act accordingly. There's a certain way to act when you're out in public. If you get a little bit out of line, then, you know, it's okay to put children in their place at times. It's not a problem. Let kids be kids. Put a little bit of music and art around them so -- because basically, all downtown, to me, is a tourist trap. So, I mean, it's -- let's call a spade a spade. Teach the kids a little bit at the same time and make it -- and make it appealing if they are going to be there. Real good opportunity for the city and the business improvement district to do that and I think they dropped the ball completely. Have a good one.

NNAMDIJack -- Jack, thank you very much for your call. You know, Gallery Place is not the only downtown business district dealing with difficult questions about young people and teens. In fact, downtown Silver Spring in Montgomery County is grappling with similar issues. Some say teenagers and skateboarders are a major nuisance, but youth advocates complain teenagers are being pushed out and left out of major planning issues. It's an issue we'll be discussing later this month at the next installment of "Kojo in your Community."

NNAMDIThat takes place on evening of Tuesday, September 21 so mark your calendar and come on out to Veteran's Plaza for a special edition of "The Kojo Nnamdi Show" on location. "Kojo in your Community." Daniel Okonkwo, how do you feel about the last caller's suggestion that this is really an opportunity for the business investment district and the city to get together to find -- to figure out how to deal with this issue, how to solve this problem?

OKONKWOI think that's an excellent -- the caller had an excellent solution and I think that's how our city needs to approach youth issues and how we, as adults, need to approach our young people and start finding solutions in how to work with them, rather than imposing, you know, our will on them. One thing that I want to note, too, is that, you know, like I said, this kind of device paints all kids with the same brush. I want to read something from, actually, the Prince of Petworth's blog which was written by a teenager.

OKONKWOThey say, "I'm 14 and was at Gallery Place to hear my friends, also teens, busk outside the station, a job they are paid to do by Metro. After less than a minute of being there, we had to relocate because the noise emanating from whatever that contraption is was giving us all intense migraines."

NNAMDIWhat are the kids paid to do outside by Metro?

OKONKWOTo busk, I'm sorry. So busking is playing music or to perform.

NNAMDIOh, okay.

OKONKWOThese are the type of kids that are doing positive things that are being driven off as well. So, you know, for kids that are there playing music, doing just as that last caller suggested, they're being affected negatively as well.

NNAMDIBack to the telephones. It's Your Turn. Here is Joan in Edgewater, Md. Joan, your turn. Go ahead, please.

JOANThank you, Kojo. I agree with you. The noise is discriminatory against us as well as against the kids...

NNAMDIThank you.

JOAN...for those of us who can't hear it. Also, I think the kids are going to retaliate. I think that if that gets annoying to them, there will be little episodes that happen. And thirdly, I'm really curious as to what the effect of this is, long term, on people's hearing.

NNAMDIAs far as I know, no study has been conducted as yet, but that's only as far as I know. What is it as far as you know, Daniel Okonkwo?

OKONKWOYou know, I can't even begin to comment on that because I -- I don't know the long-term effects of this. I'm sure the company would say that there are none.

JOANI'm sure they would, but, you know, there's all the talk about sound and what it does to people's hearing. And I'm hearing people calling in, saying that what they're losing first is their high sounds. So I think that would definitely be a concern. And I love the idea of playing opera. (laugh) The bottom line is we have to involve kids in decision-making because they do have ideas. And if we continue to be discriminatory, we're not going to see any positive rewards.

NNAMDIThank you very much for your contribution, Joan. It is your turn, Edward, in Washington, D.C. Edward, go ahead, please.

EDWARDHello, Kojo Nnamdi. Thank you very much for allowing me to express my opinion on this. I feel this is a form of audible contamination and it may be damaging even if it's not heard. And there are various people who cannot hear these high frequencies. That doesn't mean it does not cause damage. And it's damaging to children. It's a form of child abuse. And there's a similar device on TV that's advertised to keep animals quiet, to prevent dogs from barking. To me, that's also a form of animal abuse and I feel that one should not take (unintelligible) stuff like that.

NNAMDIDo you hang out in the neighborhood at all?

EDWARD(unintelligible)

NNAMDIEdward, do you hang out in that neighborhood at all?

EDWARDAs a matter of fact, and it's -- I'm a scientist and I understand how sound waves can be generated, like, how they could be damaging. And it's actually a physical -- it's physical -- it's absolutely a mechanical energy in the form of high frequencies. And even -- you have noises in the cities that cause damage to children so you have to keep that in mind. When you brake your car and a large vehicle comes to stop, it generates a very high frequency sound and that's damaging to ears when you hear that all day long. (word?) about the children.

NNAMDIEdward, thank you very much for your call. We have time for one more. Will in Olney, Md. Will, your turn. Will, are you there? Well, Will also wanted to talk about how kids are using this so teachers do not hear their cell phones. In the long term, what do you feel, Daniel Okonkwo, needs to be done to reduce conflicts between young people and other residents in the city?

OKONKWOWell, I think that, first, people need to realize that kids are going to be kids and not -- that is not to excuse their actions. I think that people should get involved. There's plenty of organizations, at the neighborhood level, at the council level, for people to engage with kids. And I think when that happens, we'll see them less as unruly young people and more as young people who are -- want to learn and are valued members of our city.

NNAMDII'm afraid that's all the time we have. Daniel Okonkwo is executive director of D.C. Lawyers for Youth. Daniel, thank you for joining us.

OKONKWOThank you for having me again, Kojo.

NNAMDI"The Kojo Nnamdi Show" is produced by Diane Vogel, Brendan Sweeney, Tara Boyle, Michael Martinez and Ingalisa Schrobsdorff. Diane Vogel is the managing producer. Our engineer today Andrew Chadwick. Dorrie (word?) has been on the phones. We get assistance in production from Elizabeth Weinstein and Kathy Goldgeier (sp?). Podcasts of all shows, Real Audio archives and CD's are available always at our website kojoshow.org. Thank you all for listening. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.