MR. KOJO NNAMDIFrom WAMU 88.5 at American University in Washington, welcome you -- welcome to The Politics Hour featuring Tom Sherwood. I'm Kojo Nnamdi. And a warm welcome to the Howard County Public Library auction winners. They join us in our control room today, where they're keeping an eye on Tobey Schreiner and especially on Dorie Anisman. Tom Sherwood is our resident analyst. He's a reporter at NBC 4 and a columnist for The Current Newspapers.

MR. KOJO NNAMDITom, you may not know it, but we have entered you into a contest. A Capital Bikeshare member with nerves of steel or a fluffy coat will win a three-year membership to the bike-sharing program, simply for getting the most use out of the $70 a year flat-rate program during two of the coldest months of the year. The Capital Bikeshare annual or monthly member with the most trips taken from Jan. 1 to Feb. 28 will be awarded the title of Winter Weather Warrior, a three-year extension of their membership, two annual memberships for friends, a $100 Hudson Trail gift card and a $25 Starbucks gift card. So we think that Tom Sherwood can win the title of Winter Weather Warrior. You've got to take a lot of bicycle trips between now and Feb. 28, not on your own bicycle, but on the bicycle from a Bikeshare program.

MR. TOM SHERWOODI know that when you sign up for that you can -- there'd be an electronic recording of -- but do you have to start and stop? What if you just took a bike out and kept it?

NNAMDIWell...

SHERWOODThen would you win just simply because you kept it along then?

NNAMDIThe assumption is that everybody will be honest in this program.

SHERWOODOh. What city do you live in?

NNAMDIThey didn't realize that you -- (laugh) they didn't realize that you might be participating in it.

SHERWOODMay I just take a moment to thank the Howard County folks? You know, they were shocked that I actually knew where Howard County was. And I'll be there on Christmas day in Columbia.

NNAMDIAnd you also knew that it is a part of the SMSA.

SHERWOODMSA, that's right.

NNAMDIWhich is?

SHERWOODThe standard statistical... (laugh)

NNAMDIHe knew it when he met them.

SHERWOODStandard Metropolitan Statistical Area. All right. I knew I'd get it.

NNAMDIYes. He knew it when he...

SHERWOODI could be a bureaucrat.

NNAMDIHe knew it when he met them. In Washington, D.C., Mayor-elect Vincent Gray has decided Cathy Lanier gets to stay on as chief of police. Was there ever any doubt in your mind?

SHERWOODThere was never any doubt in mind. I mean, he wanted to just wait. And I've been told that he wanted to wait and make sure that he had not starred as part of what he called the cluster of public safety. And that's what he did this week by renaming her. He liked her. He talked about -- all summer long, during the campaign, when he was asked about Michelle Rhee, he refused to talk about Michelle Rhee. But if you ask him about Cathy Lanier, he was effusive. So there was no doubt he wanted her to stay. But he also wanted...

NNAMDIThere was also no doubt that Chris Bowman and the FOP wanted her gone.

SHERWOODWell, they -- right, the police union is not that happy because they supported Gray. But, you know, he also wanted to -- Dennis Rubin, the fire chief, was on his way out. And Gray wants a cabinet that looks like the city. And so it was widely believed he was looking for an African American to be the fire chief. And he got one in Kenneth Ellerbe, who's a veteran of the city fire department, who just left last year to be the chief in Sarasota. Now, I don't know why in the heck, if you're the chief of Sarasota, Fla., you wanna come back to Washington, for we have the snows, but he did. And he's gonna be back. And Phil Mendelson, the chairman of judiciary committee, thinks it's a good appointment.

NNAMDIHe's got some tax problems. Mendelson thinks they're a minor.

SHERWOODWell, it is a minor when the -- it's the homestead exemption. Thousands of people in the city erroneously or illegally applied for this homestead exemption. He didn't even know about it. It -- all it does is reduce your property tax each year by 3 or $400. And he said he would pay whatever it is to make up for that.

NNAMDIMeanwhile, City Council Chair-elect Kwame Brown still seems to have some credit card debt problems. But you were the one who first started reporting on -- Loose Lips is now reporting that Council Chair-elect Brown still owes a Texas-based collections agency for $5,000 for unpaid debt on a city bank credit card. The first revelations were made before the election. Kwame Brown won the election big time. This is not likely to affect his tenure, isn't it?

SHERWOODWell, I think it affects his -- the reputation. You can't have $50,000 in credit card debt and be an elected public official and then find out you have -- that people are suing you because you don't pay bills. And I said, when I reported in the summer, they had the $50,000 debt, that the good thing about being -- going from council chairman at -- I mean, council member at-Large to council chairman is that he will get a $60,000 a year raise. And perhaps he could put some of that money to his debt.

NNAMDITowards the credit card bills. And for the attorney general position in the District of Columbia, Vincent Gray has decided that Irvin Nathan, who is now the general counsel for the U.S. House of Representatives, should take that job. Mr. Nathan seems to be more than anxious to take the job. We'll be talking next week about people who decided to come from federal positions to work for the local government in the District of Columbia, and he now becomes one of them.

SHERWOODYes. But I'm not sure how much he decided. You know, the Republicans took over the House. So he'll be out of the job up on the hill come Jan. 6, I think it is anyway. But you know, he's (unintelligible)

NNAMDIMust you always take the cynical approach?

SHERWOODWell, no. And that's not cynical, it's accurate.

NNAMDIOkay.

SHERWOODYou know, skepticism is a virtue. Cynicism is a curse.

NNAMDISo...

SHERWOODAnd I believe in skepticism. But now, actually he lives in Ward 3. He has for over 30 years. He is none of -- he has no experience in local government, but he's an accomplished lawyer. And I think that -- it's kind of odd that Vince Gray only met him a couple of weeks ago, which was kind of interesting. But I think, you know, it's -- an accomplished lawyer...

NNAMDIHe's recommended by Robert Bennett.

SHERWOOD...will be able to handle the legal affairs of the District of Columbia.

NNAMDIRecommended by Robert Bennett, who Vincent Gray considers a friend.

SHERWOODI'll admit it, and for whom Vince Gray's daughter, who is a lawyer, works.

NNAMDILet the record show that Tom Sherwood used to be a resident of Ward 3.

SHERWOODHoward.

NNAMDIBut the ANSIs voted him out

SHERWOODI moved to Ward 6.

NNAMDIHe now lives in Southwest. You can call us at 800-433-8850. And we are sure you'll be wanting to call us especially if you live in Montgomery Country or have kids who are students in the Montgomery Public Schools, because our first guest is Jerry Weast, superintendent of the Montgomery County Public Schools system. Jerry Weast, good to see you again. Thank you for joining us.

MR. JERRY WEASTGood to be here, Kojo.

NNAMDIMontgomery County is in full-on crisis mode when it comes to the county budget right now. You've put together a budget proposal asking for $60 million more in total funding than what you got last year. Some people have said that request is DOA, dead on arrival. What's your operating philosophy for that request, and what's at stake for life inside the classrooms if you don't get it?

WEASTWell, let's just talk a little bit about I assume they've got us in that 300 million somewhere. You have to make that assumption when they say they're behind because they know that we're half of the budget.

NNAMDIYes.

WEASTAnd so if I'm only asking for 60 one has to start asking some other questions, in my opinion. The 60 is gonna cost them unfortunately 82 because that's the way the state figures things, but we're only gonna get a net of 60. So there's probably some reconciling that needs to go on. We're trying to do a fair budget. I think probably this just, you know, I have me a lot of teachers that have daycare, and so I'm talking to them all the time because they're talking to me about the cost of daycare. And I had a group the other day, and they were telling me their spending well over a thousand dollars a month in daycare costs, not hard. I guess, that's maybe $400 a week, you know, get you...

NNAMDIYup.

WEASTAnd I looked at the school (word?) cost to the local county residents, it's $10,600; $7,664 with the new budget. Now, that's a little cheaper than daycare that my teachers are paying for because we go nine months, and you divide nine into $10,664...

NNAMDIOne quick explanation...

WEASTYeah.

NNAMDIWe can't talk about the school's budget in Montgomery County without getting into the state's maintenance of effort law. Can you explain exactly what that stipulates?

WEASTWell, basically, you owe the school district the same amount of money per child as you did the year before, and that's to keep people in good times from, you know, going overboard, and it's keeping people from bad times from going backward. That's all I asked for in the budget. Same amount of money last year we got for the new kids, and we get 3,300 new kids. You know, we're growing place.

SHERWOODThe county has talked about asking for a waiver again of that law or maybe just getting rid of the law but...

WEASTGrave mistake.

SHERWOOD...it sounds like you think it's a good law.

WEASTOh, it's a grave mistake. I mean, the reason that law got on there in the first place is that when some districts were getting money from the state, they were taking away their local effort. Now, I can't do that with federal money and neither can the county do that with federal money or different programs that we have. So why would we want to go backwards here? And, you know, I'm getting people to quit thinking about all these little smoke and mirrors about how you spend it. I think that's important.

MR. JAY FISETTEWe just won the National Balrige Award that tells you something about we have everything lined up. We have the highest graduation rate in the nation for large school systems, and we keep track of our kids all the way through college. And it's about double the national average, getting through college with a bachelor's degree. So our outcomes are pretty good, and those have been certified by the Broad Foundation and the Balrige.

SHERWOODSixty million dollars increase is a substantial amount of money obviously for anyone thinking of but...

WEASTWell, think about 3,300 kids.

SHERWOOD...in terms of your budget...

WEASTYeah.

WEASTIt's really a minuscule increase.

WEASTIt's 3 percent, and wave got, you know, it's really 2.8 percent. And we have a 2.3 percent increase in enrollment so it -- unless you want your class size going up...

SHERWOODAnd meanwhile over in Prince George's County, they're talking about now taking away all the middle school athletics as the types of things -- what other -- what kinds of cuts have you made in this budget?

WEASTThree million dollars in the last three years. I've cut the central office. At the time, we grew 6,300 kids. I cut the central office 20 percent. You know, I've cut everything down to the barebones, and we have everything lined up. We're audited by everybody under the sun, including our Taxpayers League. We're getting good outcomes. All I'm asking for is the same amount of money we got last year times the number of new kids. I think that's only fair for the kind of outcomes that we're getting. I don't want to see this district slip back in graduation rate. I want to see it go forward.

SHERWOODThe fact that you're leaving in June at the end of the school year you're -- are you retiring, moving on?

WEASTI'm retiring.

SHERWOODWhat is the word you're using, retiring?

WEASTWell, I think we all -- when we get old we transition...

SHERWOODOkay.

WEAST...I've been 35 years as a superintendent...

SHERWOODIs that -- does that help you?

WEAST...so I don't think I'll -- does it help me more?

SHERWOODOr hurt you in terms of your negotiations with county in terms of what you want?

WEASTI've always negotiated...

SHERWOOD(unintelligible) because you're gonna be gone anyway, so that's saying make you mad so what?

WEASTWell, that's probably some people's philosophy, and, you know, there are people who will probably think I'll quack like a duck...

SHERWOODBut that's what...

WEAST...but anybody that knows me, knows I will be right there, and I think the truth. We just got to get down to the truth. I mean, if you -- you take the retirement thing. You hear about that all the time. Teachers' retirement. Oh, it's breaking the back. All of my teachers -- and I'm saying it in personal pronouns here because I love them that much -- have no choice but to be in that retirement. The state has a deduction out of their paycheck. They don't get a choice about that deduction.

FISETTEThey don't get a choice about how to invest it. They don't get a choice of how much they get back. Now that it's gone south because of the market or poor investment strategies or the state maybe even borrowing money from it, they're saying the teachers are getting too much retirement. They are the last ones to have any choice. We need to start using some common sense here. I've been a superintendent 35 years. I've been through -- I don't know how many cycles about teacher shortage.

FISETTEIn the state five years ago, they were convening huge groups to -- wow, how are we gonna get teachers? Well, the pay was low and the retirement was bad. Five years later, wow, the pay got better and the retirement got better. We got -- we need some steadiness over time, especially for teachers who are giving us the output that Montgomery County teachers are.

NNAMDIJerry Weast is the superintendent of the Montgomery County Public School System. He joins us in studio on the Politics Hour with Tom Sherwood, our resident analyst. He's a reporter at NBC 4 and a columnist for the Current Newspapers. If you have questions, you can call us at 800-433-8850. If you have comments, the same. You can also go to our website, kojoshow.org. If you'd like to praise or maybe denounce Jerry Weast, 800-433-8850.

NNAMDIMaryland got a big boost this summer when the Obama administration awarded the state with $250 million as part of the Race to the Top program. The state superintendent told The Washington Post that part of what helped Maryland win that money was a new law that makes student achievement growth account for half of a teacher's annual evaluation. It's my understanding that labor leaders in Montgomery County aren't exactly thrilled with that formula.

WEASTNeither is the superintendent.

NNAMDIHow do you feel about it?

WEASTPretty poorly. I mean, I think kids are tested enough right now. Let's just have a little truth in lending here. Only 30 percent of the state testing is handled by our teachers. What I'm saying is, only 30 percent of our teachers do state testing. So there's about 70 percent that don't. So if we're gonna make everybody's evaluation 50 percent, we're gonna have to increase testing on the other 70 percent. Now when I hear from kids and I hear from parents, they don't really get, you know, touchy-feely about more tests because right now, we're losing three weeks of good teaching and learning time in the spring just concentrating on the exams.

WEASTWhat we want in Montgomery County is we want to get kids college ready. So let's talk about measurement. Let's talk about outcomes. Let's talk about our professional growth system that is already getting teachers who are not up to par up to par and those who don't or shouldn't be in our profession out of the profession.

SHERWOODBut whom -- but if you don't measure that, how -- who measures? Is that...

WEASTWe do measure. We use at about a third, and we integrate it with other things. I wanna look at student work. I mean, the two issues that we're trying to solve -- half the teachers in America walk out in five years. To teach for America lasts about two years. Half the kids in America either cross the stage ill-prepared or don't even cross the stage. We only have about a 70 percent graduation rate in America.

WEASTThere's something wrong with the culture of half the doctors walk out of the hospital and half the patients don't make it. We have created that culture where we have a measurement. We measure all the way through college graduation. We measure against high and national standards, ACT, SAT, advance placement, IB, international baccalaureate. Those are things that count in a kid's life. Those...

SHERWOODYou're saying you'll get the money's worth and more.

WEASTI would say that when you have the (word?) which looks at the top hundred systems, brings in outside evaluators, not anything you can apply for, say you're one of the top five in closing the gap and raising the bar, you have the national Baldrige Award from the secretary of commerce, not the secretary of education, the secretary of commerce and the president, saying that you're one of the six systems ever in America to win that award and you’re the largest by seven times over. So it's the kids. It's the outcomes. It's the awards. Yeah.

NNAMDIBut the issue of teacher evaluation is a national issue at this point of which the District of Columbia has been a focus for a while. Last week, we spoke on this broadcast with Nathan Saunders, the new president of the Washington Teachers Union. He said his priority for the union is retooling what's known as IMPACT, the system that Chancellor Michelle Rhee installed to evaluate teachers in the District. How do you size up the teacher evaluation system that Michelle Rhee left in place? And how does your philosophy compares to hers when it comes to measuring teacher effectiveness?

WEASTWell, I'm not gonna get in a debate with somebody that's not even here. And...

NNAMDIOh, come on.

WEAST...again -- I know, that'd be fun.

NNAMDIYes.

WEASTI can tell you that we dismissed more teachers for performance than Miami-Dade, New York City, Chicago, L.A., systems much bigger than we are. And we've had over 5,000 teachers go through our performance system to take a look about their performance that are either on there for PAR, peer assistance and review, and it's our teachers that built this. They're actually more hard -- I mean, they're more -- they challenge their fellow peers more than any top down administrative structure. You see, it feels like...

NNAMDISo it's like teachers have to have input into any system that evaluates teachers.

WEASTWell, they know what's going on. They know how to measure it. What do I want? I want -- under what conditions can I get them engaged? You see, if you get the child engaged, you get the teacher engaged and they build something that works for them and it solves a problem for them, it gets rid of poor performers, helps people who need extra help and gets the kids up to the outcome levels that we've got them.

WEASTI mean, don't sneeze about the number one graduation rate, top Newsweek, all of our high schools. Don't sneeze about the ACT and the SAT, SAT 1653 on average. That's almost 150 points above the national average. Don't sneeze that we are the only large system with this kind of diversity that has all racial and gender groups, besides Fairfax and us, across the AP threshold.

NNAMDIBelieve me. If I sneeze, it'll only be because of allergies (unintelligible)

WEASTI know. But you sneezed a minute ago.

SHERWOODYou do it when you're about to go to the phones.

WEASTYeah.

NNAMDIYes, I do. Thank you very much, Tom Sherwood. Here is Judy in Rockville, Md. Judy, you're on the air. Go ahead please.

JUDYThank you. I teach at Montgomery College. And a significant percentage of our students are, of course, from them Montgomery County Public School System. And a significant percentage of those students require developmental courses in reading, English and/or math and sometimes all three. These are students who have graduated from Montgomery County High School, and yet are very, very low on reading, writing and math. How does Mr. Weast explain that as part of his graduation rite?

WEASTI'd be happy to. I would love to explain that question. I've been dying to get an air question like that, so thank you, Judy. I don't know what you teach but I really like it. First of all, Montgomery College has an entry exam for these kids, that if you don't score 550 on the English, 550 on the math, 550 on the writing, you automatically are moved in to remediation in those classes. That is well above the national average. That's the 1650 that I'm talking about. The national average on the SAT test is 100 and some points less than that. So you're trying to, one, use a much higher bar. Two, let's take a look at the graduation rate from Montgomery College five to seven years.

WEASTNow, a lot of the kids that you are getting have English language problems. They are English language learners. English is not their first language. A lot of the kids that we get and we get 40 percent of all the immigration in the state comes to Montgomery County, comes to us in the later grades. They don't just start. They come to us in the later grades. It takes a while to get them up to that academic level. So one of the things that we need to do and the new president and the former presidents have been working with us on this, is to try to make a value chain to give these kids more time as they move across.

WEASTBut I don't think that we should use these arbitrary barriers about putting people in remediation. Nice little piece of research out on Towson University compared to Montgomery College, with the other colleges, and guess what? They get out of there really quick in about four to five years versus five to seven, maybe even eight.

NNAMDIOn to the Janet in Washington, D.C. Janet, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

JANETYes, hi. Thanks for taking my call. I'm actually a Fairfax County parent. We rely heavily on the VGLA, the alternative assessments here both in Fairfax and statewide for our special education students. And also, as you just mentioned, students -- ESL students -- I noticed in Montgomery County, you don't rely on it as much and as a result our scores in that -- in those brackets are significantly higher than yours, 30, 40 percentage points. What are you doing in testing for those students who struggle with the standardized tests?

WEASTWell, unfortunately, your state is, I think a little more progressive in what they're allowing you to use and how you utilize it. Then, we have in Maryland uses the same pretty much flat test that they do for all students, which is good because it has high expectations. But it's not so good when it comes to adapting that test to the child, and therefore, it's left on the backs of teachers. And we have, you know, 16, 17,000 kids in special education. It creates a lot of extra load. Now, according to the federal government guidelines, 1 percent, you can give some specialized test too. But the rest of them fall right into the testing regimen.

WEASTWhat I would like is to for us to rethink this whole issue of labeling children. You see, I think, children who have special needs can really do high-end academic work. I think that you have to say under what conditions can they do that? And what we've done in Montgomery County is to try to move them more towards the academic classroom because if their farther away from it, they tend not to do as well. And then try to figure out how to adopt and adapt the conditions. Now, that's a heavy load for teachers but, you know, special ed children are gonna be special and adults. And we need not label them now or later. They're going to be productive adults. They're gonna need jobs.

SHERWOODThey're mainstreaming? I'm talking about mainstreaming, that's the word we use to...

WEASTI'm talking about having high expectations. What I found in my 35 years -- see there you go. You're sneezing again. Okay. (laugh)

NNAMDIThey didn't hear it. I pressed the button.

WEASTOkay. What I found in my 35 years is that we are not shooting high enough. We don't have materials that are rigorous enough. We don't have expectations of our children to do enough. And that is causing us to lose ground nationally and internationally.

SHERWOODI have a friend who's a special ed teacher in Orlando and he's in a high school and he has only one student he really has to keep track of. But the first thing he learned this year was that all the teachers expected this child not to get anything. He could not see well.

WEASTYou bet.

SHERWOODHe was in the back of the classroom. The testing material state law says, the type has to be 60 percent higher bigger type face on it. It wasn't. It was a routine type face. You see, this kid couldn't learn anything because he couldn't see anything. He couldn't hear anything and no one seemed to care.

WEASTI will tell you about a young lady that we got two years ago from Cameroon. Parents didn't speak English. She didn't speak English. She has a visual problem. She came to our schools and our teachers had high expectations for her. They got her into activities. That's why you don't wanna cut your middle school athletics. They got her engaged and now, she's an honor student. She's an honor student and her parents -- she will -- intergenerational. She will affect her children. She will affect her children's children, and she can do it.

WEASTIt's -- we've got to continuously ask, but you know what it took? We have had adapted technology. We have had good teaching and learning. We have had high expectations. We had to get her close to the classroom peers as we could. We had to let her be in activities. We didn't have to exclude her. I mean there's a lot of -- and that's expensive. That's expensive.

NNAMDIJanet, thank you very much for your call. A new curriculum is starting to work its way through Montgomery County elementary schools. A curriculum that the education publisher Pearson is gonna package and mark it around the world. What exactly is changing with that new curriculum? And what are the details of the deal you made with Pearson this past summer?

WEASTWe started five years ago, again, after being in this business a long time and listening to the teachers and listening to the kids. Remember I asses a child and a teacher engagement problem. They got sick and tired of nothing but math and science and -- well, we weren't even doing much science, math, reading and some writing and teaching and worrying about the test. So what we started four, five years ago is to say, we need to integrate art and music and physical education and social studies and science into a curriculum more like children are designed to learn it together overtime.

WEASTAnd we started working through that because we were still under the state test and things like that. But you know what, I asked our teachers, and they started to innovate. And they said we can do this, because it's fun. It's more fun to teach. The kids learn it. We started in kindergarten. Then the recession of 2008 hit, so we needed a partner, somebody who had some money. Pearson is the largest publishing company in the world. And they have some psychometricians, because we wanted to be able to measure this.

SHERWOODWhat?

WEASTPeople who do the testing.

SHERWOODPsychometricians.

NNAMDICan you tell what that means?

WEASTYeah. I'll get off the education leaves. (laugh) Let's say...

NNAMDICome on, Tom. You looked like psychometrician.

WEASTWhen you go to the hospital to take blood...

SHERWOODOkay.

WEAST...you don't wanna take a blood test for everything they need. You wanna take one draw of blood and have it, you know, looked at with different tests. They had people that were able to do that. So if we had to integrate the curriculum, I didn't want over test these kids. Now, they like what we were doing so much. And they're not changing it. They're just helping it and augmenting it. And that -- also, the federal government liked it. And we got one of those innovative grants. We got number 15, out of the largest number of competitors ever on grants. And we were number 15 on that.

WEASTSo it's a really good program. And, Kojo, it's built to engage its learner, make it more fun, and engage the teacher without losing the high-quality expectations. We know how to do it, because our current curriculum is -- again, college level, all the way up. We start with preschool. And you've got to start with preschool, especially with poor kids, children who have been moved around a lot, children who haven't been read too, maybe, as much as we like to see. You've got to have a great early childhood education program. And that's...

SHERWOODYou sound so optimistic. Why are you...

WEASTI am.

SHERWOOD...retiring?

WEASTI'm old. You know, I'm getting my sixth grandchild. I'll probably transition into maybe do something...

SHERWOOD(unintelligible) to work?

WEAST...maybe do something to help schools or some sort of foundations or things like that. But...

SHERWOODI can hear the action in your voice. So I'm just saying it must be harder for you to walk away in June.

WEASTIt is.

NNAMDII'm acquiring...

WEASTIt's hard to walk away from what I love. It's easy to walk away from the seven days a week, 24 hours a day. And trust me, when I got the call at four o'clock this morning, on the snow day, whether we delay or not, that's gonna be a cake walk. (laugh)

SHERWOODWe'll make arrangements to call you in your retirement. Whatever acts you're doing, we'll call you at 4:00 a.m. and see how you doing. Still was.

WEASTYeah, well...

NNAMDIJust to keep in you in touch.

WEASTMy wife will probably have a few choice words at that time.

NNAMDIHere is Carlos in Silver Spring, Md. Carlos, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

CARLOSYes. Hello. I just -- before I address the superintendent, I would like to just point the conversation in a direction that the National Debate Institute be remiss in doing. That is this. I think there's a real misconception about the strength and the power and the leverage of these teacher unions. Everyone acted so, you know, we're in the time warp or something. And there's also a misconception about teachers keeping jobs, people having the misconception that they cannot be fired.

CARLOSMy personal experience in my children's teachers, I see that it's quite easy for a principal who doesn't like a teacher to fire that teacher. And in some cases, it's a little too easy. So that's the initial misconception. Dr. Weast pointed to that earlier that he's gotten rid of a lot of teachers, which is not. I guess, the next point is that's not entirely, just...

WEASTOur teachers have. (laugh)

CARLOSWhat's that?

WEASTI said our teachers have. We have a peer assistance and review. We have a panel of teachers and administrators to do that. I was trying off on it. Yeah.

CARLOSSo I guess there's two sides of the issue. One is, there's a misconception in the general public. The second thing is, I think the system -- your particular system -- my kids go to MCPS Schools. There was a wonderful English teacher who was run out of the school. And it was largely based on her inability to control bad behavior at one particular class. And she was blamed for the behavior of some of these kids. And it was -- I challenge anybody to get into that same room with the same demographics and the exact same kids and perform. But I think, mostly...

NNAMDIWe're running out of time very quickly, Carlos. Allow me to have Superintendent Weast respond to the issue of teachers who find themselves in classes with kids, who seemed to be uncontrollable, and who find themselves, as Carlos says, out of a job in their view, simply because they couldn't control those kids.

WEASTFirst of all, I think that there is always techniques to learn how to engage the learners, where they really wanna come to class and wanna behave themselves. And I think good teachers do that every day. And, Carlos, just to rest your mind at ease, a principal actually -- each of our buildings have a teacher who is non-evaluative there help the teachers who were in that building. And if the principal then sees a teacher who has an issue, they will evaluate and write up a report. And then the union and I have a group of consulting teachers who go around, who are evaluative just like the principal. And they will go in and check that out.

WEASTAnd then they can go in that classroom as many times they can, and were trying to help that teacher get better. Now, if the teacher doesn't get better, what we then do is that goes to a peer review and assistance panel. And then that panel makes a judgment about whether that teacher needs more time or that teacher needs to go. And then what I do is sign off on it. That's why we've been able to do so well with teachers who maybe need some help. And, again, we have a high standard. No doubt about it.

SHERWOODWhat about his overall view that the teachers union are -- these are being influential. What would you say is the influence? It is pretty powerful in Montgomery County.

NNAMDIWell, Carlos was trying to say that that's not true, that they're not (unintelligible).

SHERWOOD(unintelligible) is true.

WEASTHere's my take on it. My mother was a teacher. My brother was a teacher. I was a teacher. Teachers want to teach, you know? Why wouldn't they be involved? And...

SHERWOOD(unintelligible).

WEASTAnd I don't think our union is over powerful. I think they are the best help that we have, that is improving student achievements, how to engage them. Of course, they're gonna protect their members. But, you know, if you just go and say, everybody is a loser, yeah, you're gonna have some problems with people. It's pretty hard to win a war, if you're generally saying you're all a bunch of losers.

SHERWOODBest wishes with your budget fight.

WEAST(laugh) All right.

NNAMDIAs Tom Sherwood has pointed out, you have about half a year left on the job before you retire. Inquiring minds want to know when Tom Sherwood is gonna retire. But outside of...

WEASTYes.

NNAMDI...budgetary issues...

WEASTYes.

NNAMDI...what else is on your must-do list before you leave office?

WEASTWell, first of all, I would hope that our community judges that what it's worth, the education, is what we put forward. It should be worth as much as daycare. Second, I hope that they continue to trust their teachers and work with them. They are a force that can make a difference. And third, I hope they continue the engagement with the children. The children want a good education. They want a high level of education.

WEASTThey want to walk across the street and go in without remediation. There are issues with regard to children's poverty, mobility, language ability that we have to work through. And we need to support all children, special education children -- and please, let's don't forget the children who metabolize things fast. We call them gifted and talented. But guess what, there are kids that get to the end point quickly, and let's don't slow them down either. That takes a differentiated system, and I think if they've got one, stick with it.

NNAMDIJerry Weast is the superintendent of the Montgomery County Public School System in Montgomery County, Md. Jerry Weast, thank you so much for joining us. Good luck to you. Tom Sherwood is our resident analyst. He's expecting to be a candidate for the school superintendent position in Montgomery County. He's currently a reporter at (laugh) NBC 4...

SHERWOODYou don't have to be a football player to be able to do the math of throwing a pass before -- I would get -- let them throw the pass.

NNAMDIHe is currently a reporter at NBC 4 and we hope he stays there. He's also a columnist for the Current newspapers. We also hope he continues to do that. The Virginia General Assembly gets back to work next month and the Arlington County Board has already prepared a laundry list of priorities for what it wants accomplished there. Joining us in studio is Jay Fisette. He is the chairman of the Arlington County Board in Arlington County, Va. He is a Democrat. Jay Fisette, good to see you.

FISETTENice to see you, Kojo and Tom.

SHERWOODBut, you know, he's on his way out as chairman.

NNAMDIYes, indeed. It's chairman a year over in Arlington County...

SHERWOODRight. And Chris Zimmerman is gonna be the next chairman in January, right?

FISETTEThat's the way we do it. Yup, Chris will take over Jan. 1...

SHERWOODWhat does he have to clean up from your term?

FISETTEI'm leaving him -- things are in great shape.

SHERWOODBut he actually -- Chris Zimmerman has been on the metro board for 13 years. He's announced he's not gonna stay on there. That's a pretty big loss, isn't it, for the county?

FISETTEYeah, 13 years. I think he's the longest serving, and he's done a great job. He knows transit like, you know, better than anybody...

NNAMDIThat guy can drive a train.

FISETTE...he knows it better than anybody. And I think there'll be -- Mary Hynes who'll step in, and it'll be great to have a little broader expertise within our board on that too. A lot of us sit on various transportation bodies. I sit on the Northern Virginia Transportation Commission, for example.

NNAMDIIf you've got questions or comments for Jay Fisette, chairman of the Arlington County board, you can call us at 800-433-8850, or go to our website kojoshow.org. Join the conversation there. I mentioned that you've prepared your laundry list of priorities for the general assembly, but it's also my understanding that you've deliberately kept things to a minimum. What are you asking for and why are you taking that approach?

FISETTEWell, I think, you know, as the general assembly changed character this year, it's tough, and the economy on top of that. It's a tough year, so we're not being overly proactive. Clearly in a state like Virginia, where you have the Dillon Rule, the local government is required year after year to go back down and ask for permission to do a number of things, we're just not asking for that many new things.

FISETTEOne of the things we're putting some focus on, though, is the reform commission. I think we all have some high hopes that the governor's reform commission will come through with some good ideas that will turn into legislation or administrative, you know, efficiencies that will be very valuable to local governments throughout Virginia.

SHERWOODThe Dillon Rule, for those who don't know, in Virginia, that if -- if you are not specifically granted authority in the state to do something locally, you cannot do it. Right?

FISETTEThat's right. The burden is, in most every other state, is the opposite way. The local government is allowed to do anything unless the legislature passes a bill that doesn't let you do it. In Virginia, you cannot do anything unless the legislature passes a bill that says you can do it, so it's a very different burden. For example, it took Arlington three or four years, many years ago, to regulate the height of grass. You know, you would think that would be a local authority that really wouldn't need to take up a whole lot of legislator's times -- time, but it did. And I think if the reform commission looks at that inefficiency in certain areas, that they'll be a great savings to the commonwealth...

SHERWOODYou mentioned that at outset that there are changes in Richmond in the general assembly, the House and the Senate. What changes -- what makes you to be conservative in what you wanna try to get done? What are the changes for people who might not know?

FISETTEWell, there -- one is the change in the legislature is that's more heavily Republican in the House than it was before. It was controlled by the Republicans in past and now they have a stronger voice there. And I think we had had up to about 45 Democrats, 55 Republicans and now it's somewhere around 37, 38 Democrats. So -- but beyond that, there's really the economy and the finances of the commonwealth put a -- you know, create an obstacle for anybody to be very proactive as well.

NNAMDIPeople in Arlington County are at the mercy of the state's battles over roads. Governor McDonnell recently fielding a transportation plan. What are your thoughts about his plan and what are your hopes for getting help on roads from Richmond next year?

FISETTEWell, we've gotten a little money out of stimulus and I'd say the -- sort of the jury's out on how that goes. A lot of people, the business community throughout Virginia are hoping that this governor is successful in finding a permanent, long-term revenue stream for transportation. You know, gas tax money is going down, needs are going up. Northern Virginia is the economic engine of Virginia, and we've all known there is congestion problem throughout the region, transit and roads, for the last decade, and nobody has found a way to solve that.

FISETTEIt seems to me his first two, you know, or three ideas, the reform commission of that can actually reform VDOT and not have the duplication between the central offices and the regional office, allow the local expertise in transportation to play a greater role. Boy, it could take -- you know, now, three or four years to get a light might be done in a year. I mean, there's a lot of potential efficiency there.

FISETTEHis idea with the ABC privatization, I think most of us think that's a short-term sort of fix, and, in fact, it's a longer term problem. It may give you a little money upfront, but it creates a large array of potential problems in local governments in Arlington. You'd be going from about eight ABC outlets to 25 to make this work, and that has potential problems. But beyond that, it's not real money, after the first year. In fact, after the first year, it's a loss of revenue.

NNAMDIIt doesn't seem to have a lot of support in the general assembly either.

FISETTEI think it's losing support. It never had much within Democrats, and I think a lot of Republicans have been very skeptical from the get-go. So it really wouldn't accomplish what it was set out to. And then the borrowing of money, the tradition in Virginia is not to borrow money. That said, I mean, I will say when interest rates are this low, borrowing money for a couple of years isn't such a bad idea, you know. It's not a long-term solution, and what we really need is a long-term solution. So we haven't really seen it yet.

SHERWOODArlington is one of the smallest jurisdictions in terms of the size...

FISETTEYup.

SHERWOOD...although it's densely populated. How much do you work with Fairfax and the other Northern Virginia legislators to present a united front on some of these issues for the region?

FISETTEI think we do that all the time.

SHERWOODOther than transportation, is there something more, higher ed or…?

FISETTEOn a lot of issues, I'm in contact with -- and there's the Northern Virginia Regional Commission, puts out a legislative package -- Sharon Bulova, Bill Euille in Alexandria and Fairfax. We talk all the time. You know, our chair changes, so there's constant -- they're more consistent in terms of who is the chief elected official there, but there's a consistency, nonetheless, in our positions and in our approach, and as well within the sort of larger jurisdictions and the population centers. We have a lot in common with the Hampton Roads area as well. So we will often approach things in concert with them.

NNAMDIYou're wrapping up your rotation as chairman of the board. It's my understanding that you have listed a community energy plan.

FISETTEYeah.

NNAMDIIt's the biggest success the board achieved this year. What does that plan entail, and why do you feel so strongly about it?

FISETTEWell, as I entered the year, Arlington -- sustainability was my framing for the goals I wanted to achieve this year. Now, as you all know, you talk to us all the time about land use, transportation, our smart growth history where people come to see us from all over the place. For the last decades, we've done a lot of good smart growth, and that's the fundamentals to sustainability and efficiency.

FISETTEThat said, I felt that where we needed to go was on energy. Local governments are always creating, and we have -- we're very good at creating master transportation plans and open space and land use. But nobody ever does energy. We just sort of take it for granted. You flick the switch, you, you know, plug it in and it's there. But that is not the future. It's changing. The reliability and cost of energy in the future is going to be a huge issue. So...

SHERWOODSo what can a county do about it?

FISETTEWell -- and that's a good question, but we can do a lot because, actually, at the federal level, there's kind of a void over the last decade or so. Nobody's really tackled this, so it falls to local governments and regions and sometimes states. So we created a taskforce, mostly private sector, all the major developers, all the major employers, the Pentagon, the airports authority, WMATA, the superintendent of schools, high level, because we had done a lot in the last few years through our fresh air initiative -- Arlington initiative to reduce emissions -- to reduce our own energy use of their facilities.

FISETTENow we had to look at the other 96 percent of the energy use in the community and get everybody on board. So we're in the process -- it hasn't been adopted yet, hasn't been finalized, it will be next spring -- of adopting a plan that will set goals and targets and strategies for generating, distributing and reducing the use of energy. That, by the way, will make us very competitive. The people are at the table not because of climate change, but because it saves them at the bottom line and makes Arlington more competitive for businesses in the future.

SHERWOODIn the district, there are more and more signs, traffic signs and other kinds of signs that are solar-powered.

FISETTEAbsolutely. Your parking meters and all the rest.

SHERWOODRight. Solar-powered.

FISETTERight. Absolutely. Where you can do it, you should.

NNAMDIOn to Miriam in Arlington, Va. You, too, can call us at 800-433-8850 if you have questions for Jay Fisette. He is the chairman of the Arlington County Board. Miriam, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.

MS. MIRIAM GENNARIHi, Kojo. Nice to speak to you. Miriam Gennari. Jay, you remember me, Miriam Gennari, from the school board rate. How are you?

FISETTEI'm fine. How are you?

GENNARIGood. Thank you. I'm very excited about the fact that we're putting -- or I understand the county has begun the process of putting a new roof on the Aurora Hills library and community center, which is, of course, attached to the fire station, which was the first respondent for September 11. So a very significant facility. It's also wide-open in sunlight and would be the ideal location for a solar roof. Discussions within the community have already started on why don't we do a solar roof?

GENNARISustainability, as you were mentioning, is so important and generating energy is important. And that facility would be wonderful as a self-sufficient facility in the event of an emergency. So can we put the brakes on whatever shingles might potentially go up and quickly do a study? I know from your taskforce meetings there are companies that would be happy to put that roof on for us and generate the energy and then sell it back. So it's -- I know it's -- I know you've kind of probably already got contacts in place, but who cares about that when we're talking about sustainability in the future for our community?

NNAMDIWell, Miriam, how do you really feel about this? Here's Jay Fisette.

FISETTE(laugh) Miriam -- yeah, I wasn't...

SHERWOODIt was not the way your station feels about my contract.

FISETTE(laugh) Yeah. If that's a real offer out there, I certainly wanna know about it. And during the school board campaign, congratulations to you for raising the visibility of the environmental issues as a representative of the Green Party. You know, the county, through our fresh air initiative, has done an awful lot focusing on our facilities. In the last two fiscal years, a reduction of about 12 percent of our energy cost as a result of retrofits to buildings.

FISETTEAnd you don't always go in and do it before the -- a retrofit or a repair is needed. But when you do need it, you do it with a high energy efficiency caution. So this particular facility that you're talking about, I think that the long-term future of that is somewhat unclear and this is probably a temporary solution. But if there is a good one regarding renewables, I think I'd like to hear about it. So let me know when I get back home.

NNAMDIThank you very much for your call, Miriam. You, too, can call us, 800-433-8850. You can't say this year was uneventful in Arlington. Just a few months ago, the board asked County Manager Michael Brown to step down. You said it became clear that Michael Brown was not a good fit for the county. What led you and the board members to feel that way?

FISETTEWell, you know, you get a hiring firm out there and they do a national search and you do your interview and you're looking for somebody from the outside. We had no internal candidates, actually. And after a few months, it became clear to us -- to a person that it was time to ask Mr. Brown to move on and...

SHERWOODHow long was he there?

FISETTEAbout four months. About four months. And fortunately for us, our deputy county manager, who had been the interim, stepped in, was available and she's done a terrific job. She did a good job as the interim, you know, and she's been with the county 27 years. She...

NNAMDISo why do we look outside?

FISETTEShe didn't put her name in as a candidate.

NNAMDIOh.

FISETTEAnd I guess toward the end of her six, seven months as interim, she began to change her mind. But that point, it was too late. So I think in the end, Arlington is in very good shape with Barbara Donnellan as our county manager.

SHERWOODAnother Michael Brown. You know, we had Michael -- we had two Michael Browns during the...

FISETTEThere are a lot of Michael Browns around this region for a while, yeah.

NNAMDIYeah.

SHERWOOD(word?) campaigns. It's very confusing. We need to start assigning numbers to them. (laugh)

NNAMDIWhat do you expect will be the county's local priorities when the board goes to work next year?

FISETTEWell, some of that I expect you'll have my colleague Christopher Zimmerman in because the beginning of the year, Jan. 1, we have our quaint traditional Arlington County board meeting, organizational meeting, where this change occurs, and that each of us identifies some of our priorities for the year. But there is some deference to the incoming chairman. He hasn't identified what those are. But I would be surprised if the framework of sustainability isn't at the core of some of what Chris continues to be focused on. He always has been smart growth, land use and transportation.

FISETTEFor me, continuation and acceptance of our community energy plan and then a robust effort to create an implementation plan to make that happen. So we take those goals and strategies and buy-in and turn it into action. That will be key. Another one, of course, is the budget. It's a tough year last couple of years. Next year is not looking to be as tough. We had about an 80 to $100 million gap in the fall last year. This year it's only...

SHERWOODHow big (unintelligible) budget of what size?

FISETTEAbout a billion.

SHERWOODBillion dollars.

FISETTEAnd this year it's about 20 to 30. So it's a much more reasonable gap for us to manage, yet we still have to do it. We're required to do that.

SHERWOODWe can't talk about Arlington without talking about I-66 and widening that road, making more -- are there are any short-term solutions or adjustments to the horrific traffic problem that people have in Northern Virginia, Arlington? People look at you, wants you to do something like expand that road. And no one in Arlington, to my knowledge, wants to expand the road. So...

FISETTEIsn't that interesting?

SHERWOODAnd those of us who live in the district do not want a...

FISETTEYeah.

SHERWOOD...six or seven-lane I-66 running into the district and stopping...

FISETTERight.

SHERWOOD...for what that would bring to us.

FISETTERight.

SHERWOODBut what -- I mean, it's just horrific. People who wanna go shopping at Tysons Corner has to come to Arlington (unintelligible)

FISETTEYou know, let me pontificate for a minute, Tom.

SHERWOODWell, any hope for the people out there if we start a new year?

FISETTELet me pontificate for a moment. You know...

SHERWOODHow about pontificate? Let's put a clock on that.

FISETTEYeah, right. (laugh) There's not much left on it. The bottom line is that land use planning by all the jurisdictions and readings is fundamentally important. We've got to focus on our activity centers. And we got to connect -- I don't think people should be able to put new density in places unless they have a plan to include the transportation system that's gonna carry people there. But sprawl development is part of what's created this problem. If we had the development, the jobs and the housing connected together, more focused in activity centers, we wouldn't have the kind of log jam you're talking about.

FISETTENow back years ago, long before I got in the board, Arlington had an issue with creating another 95 down the I-66 quarter. And look what you've got. You got a -- you got beautiful landscaping, you got sound walls, you've got a lot of roads crossing it so you didn't, you know, disconnect our community, you got bike trails along it -- much better. That was the promise at the time. Our view is until you've studied and looked at the alternatives, like see how the silver line really works, see how Tysons gets transformed and people can actually move from single-occupant vehicles to cars, increase the transit, transportation.

SHERWOODI was in Bethesda last night, which another dense area, but they have new housing, high-rise housing. They have new shop.

FISETTERight there in the corner.

SHERWOODThey have a Metro. And people are not driving as many cars.

FISETTEAnd that's the key. Now that doesn't mean you don't have to widen roads at times or create new ones. Of course, you do, but it shouldn't be the first reaction when there's, you know, projection.

NNAMDII'm afraid that's all the time we have. Jay Fisette, thank you so much for joining us.

FISETTEThank you, Kojo.

NNAMDIJay Fisette is the chairman of the Arlington County Board in Arlington County, Va. He is a democrat. Tom Sherwood, who stole Marion Barry's car last week?

SHERWOODOh, that's assuming it was stolen.

NNAMDIThe key was in the ignition, somebody took it, but it has now been returned.

SHERWOODWell, you know, we don't know the whole story. I don't know the whole story. I'm not willing to say it was just stolen.

NNAMDITom Sherwood is our resident analyst. He's a reporter at NBC 4 and a columnist for The Current Newspapers. Thank you all for listening. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.