Pit Bulls In Maryland
http://thekojonnamdishow.org/shows/2012-07-25/pit-bulls-maryland
A vicious dog attack on a 10-year-old boy in Maryland led to an appeals court decision in April declaring pit bulls and pit bull mixes "inherently dangerous" breeds. The decision makes pit bull owners -- and their landlords if they rent -- liable for any damage or injury their dogs cause. The ruling may be on hold, but this kind of "breed specific" ruling is always controversial, renewing the debate about whether some types of dogs are more dangerous than others. We explore this legally and emotionally complex issue.
Guests
Heather Mizeur
Maryland House of Delegates (D-20th Dist) (former Member, Takoma Park Council, now represents Montgomery County)
Gary Weitzman
President, San Diego Humane Society
Tami Santelli
Maryland State Director, Humane Society of the U.S.
Colleen Lynn
Founder and President, Dogsbite.org
Kevin Dunne
Principal, Ober Kaler Attorneys at Law
Comments
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I have been pet sitting, feeding & walking dogs and other animals for the better part of the past 15 years. I have done this both in the DMV and other places across the US. I have taken care of quite a few dogs, and many of them have been Pitt Bulls. It is my experience (and that of the majority of other dog sitters I've talked to) that they are more often than not wonderful, sweet, intelligent, loyal, strong and silly dogs. It's very unfortunate that so many people have such a poor opinion in regard to these fantastic animals. It is also unfortunate that some of the qualities that I just described (loyalty, intelligence and strength) are the same qualities that PEOPLE use in order to make some of them dangerous. Having said that, the only time I have come close to being bitten, I was taking care of a full bread, adult golden retriever, who's owners later said that they didn't think they needed to train her, since goldens are "such good dogs".
You realize that all of the statistical data and claims made on DogsBite.org are coming from their own research "gathered through media accounts that were
available at the time of the attack or found through Internet archives"
it isn't an independent, unbiased, vetted study, its someone with a vendetta using Wikipedia and googling "pit bull attacks" and putting together the information that supports their cause!
Kojo Nnamdi - how can you let someone like this on your show and not address the incredibly biased and false "facts" posted on her site or share this person/opinion with your audience without letting them know that her "statistical data" is hogwash?
My husband and I live in Virginia and we brought home a wonderful pit bull mix in March and he has been nothing but a sweet, drooling goofball since that first day. He's about a year and a half old now and it's clear that someone worked with him a great deal on commands such as sit, gentle (when taking a treat), stay, and here. He is whip-smart and understands nuance and mood better than most other dogs I've encountered. He's exceptionally gentle with our two older mixed breed dogs and can't get enough of chasing a tennis ball. He expresses how much he loves having a home of his own by licking our faces every chance he gets.
I must admit I was a little hesitant when we picked him, not because I was nervous about him, but because I feared how other people would react to him. Those fears were quickly dismissed. He projects love in everything he does, and appears to be somewhat afraid of the 25-pound bark-happy dog on the other side of our fence. It's amusing.
It is my feeling that these dogs - or any dogs for that matter - are not wired from birth to be dangerous. Just as parents can raise a rotten child through abuse, neglect, or lack of discipline, so too can people warp these beautiful animals' natural actions into negative reactions based on fear, pain, and a desire to survive.
I am happy to express these thoughts on air if you wish. Thanks.
Pit bulls are not inherently bad, any more than a Smith & Wesson revolver is inherently bad.
A sociopath dog owner can train a toy poodle to attack.
If a dog attacks a human, the dog probably should be destroyed and the owner charged with a crime.
This is what courts are for.
I agree with Alianya's comment. I'm very disappointed that your show would include as a guest a zealot that creates facts to support her case.
For example, in the header of the Dogbite website it says "In the 3-year period from 2006 to 2008, pit bull type dogs killed 52 Americans" under their "Pit Bull Myths" page it states "From 2005 to 2011, pit bulls killed 128 Americans, about one citizen every 20 days"
I don't know what the specific numbers of dog bites by breed are, but neither does your guest, since this is not tracked in a uniform manner and sometimes initial media reports are incorrect (that happened in Denver this year when a report was bit by an Angentine Dogo, but it was first reported as a pit bull).
My heart goes out to people who have suffered terrible physical and emotional injuries from dog bites, but it was my golden retriever that wore a muzzle to the vet when I was growing up. We need to address dog bites and irresponsible owners and breeders, not ban breeds.
Kojo- I really expected a much more balanced presentation. Where are the lawyers that filed for the insurance company?? where are the experts than can give the FACTS!! How about a vet that can tell you true information regarding the breed??? Allowing only one side to present their case for the first 30 minutes is outrageous!! I never considered you would present a biased program. VERY disappointed. What kind of research did you really do before presenting this show? do you know the CDC has put out a report on dog bites, and the "pit" is not even in the top 5???
I agree. No dog should be labeled. My pit bull is very gentle and loving. He is neutered, socialized and in training. I also have a bull dog mix that is 10 years old and have not not any problems. My dog was attacked by a lab and did not even respond back.
Every owner of a dog should be liable for their dog regardless of the breed. I have no problem being liable for my dog's. I have owned doberman's, akita, skipperke, beagle. Each dog has their own specific qualities and none have been labeled nor should be.
Hold the owner responsible for every dog breed not a certain type. The landlord should not be responsible it should be the owner. How many of these dogs will be misidentified.. AGAIN DOG OWNER PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY.
I have sat and listened to your data and it does not seem accurate or correct even as a dog owner of different types of dogs your statements do not add up.
If pit bulls are ONLY dangerous when they are trained to be so, as most owners say, why are so many pit bulls picked for that type of training? Why do people who want a dangerous dog mostly use the pit bull type? Why not a poodle, if its only in the training? What is it about pit bulls that makes it so easy to train them to harm and kill? I realize other dogs bite and harm people also, but it seems to be mainly pit bulls causing deaths and major harm.
My dog walker, who has been walking dogs for a dozen years, was trying to defend a small pug from a sudden attack by a pit bull mix that was being walked irresponsibly by another dog walker. The pit mix had her jaws around the pug's neck, and the pit walker seemed to find it all amusing. In half a second, the pit bull had severed her ring finger. The dog was not even taken by dc animal control. She lost her suit and the dog, two years later, is still permitted on the street without a harness and walks near a children's park. A long story, in any event, but DC is dismal in this area, and she was never compensated for her medical bills, prosthesis or loss of income. She was not allowed to call experts in her case, or allowed to use the words pit bull mix in any of her testimony. IF the dog hadn't bit anyone, then it cannot be "dangerous." Even if it bites someone's finger off.
It's unfortunate that Colleen Lynn has been invited to the panel. Dogsbite.org, the Web site which Colleen owns and operates, produces original and non-peer reviewed content rife with factual and statistical errors. The site is primarily a vehicle for Ms. Lynn's quest for publicity and attention. There are far more reliable sources of information than hers, such as the CDC, HSUS and the ASPCA. These (and many other resources) present a far more balanced view and present facts in direct opposition to your guest's.
Here are a few links about pit bulls - one historic story, two recent stories - that would suggest these dogs are far more interested in serving their owners than "being vicious":
http://www.dogcentral.info/worlds-bravest-dog-sgtstubby/
I watched a recent television program on this dog.
http://www.ilovedogs.com/2012/07/compassionate-police-officer-rescues-an...
Also, http://www.dogheirs.com/elleng/posts/1580-pit-bull-honored-for-heroicall...
This dog saved his owner and her young child from an intruder.
Pit bulls are absolutely loyal and protective, but that is not the same thing as violent. During the decades surrounding the World Wars, the pit bull - often called the Yankee terrier at that time - was one of the most popular dog breeds as a family pet because of their loyalty and their desire to protect the family, especially children.
One more link: http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/Dog-Bites/biteprevention.html
It's a link to the CDC's dog bite prevention information, and it mentions nothing about pit bulls. It does state that 4.5 million people are bitten each year.
When I was a kid down South, a German shepherd belonging to a redneck neighbor got loose and bit a kid pretty badly.
Everyone knew who the dog's owner was.
Eventually police car showed up at the owner's house. This was over 50 years ago and cops rode in pairs.
One policeman went to the front door, the other went to the back yard. When the owner appeared at the front door he was arrested. We heard a gunshot from the back yard.
The handcuffed owner was put in the back seat of the police car, and the dog was wrapped in a tarp and put in the trunk.
The owner went to jail and the dog's corpse was tested for rabies.
Nobody thought that any of this was inappropriate.
I am currently listening to the opening minutes of this show - the lawyer, and now your first caller, and as a great admirer of your work and your show, I am APPALLED at the apparent bias that this show is rolling out with. You are actually asking leading questions to make the one-sided point about pit bulls' dangerousness.
I am the proud, responsible owner of an 11-year old American Staffordshire Terrier (a bully breed). He is the joy of my life, and a well-loved by my family and friends. I have owned him since he was 10 weeks old. He is a neighborhood and dog park favorite...of people more open-minded.
I'm still listening, in hopes that you will find it in your journalistic sense of fairness...if you can retain any during this conversation to present a fair presentation of this "issue" of "inherently dangerous dogs." Will you feature any stories of other dogs that have mauled small children?! Here's one to start: http://www.thebaynet.com/news/index.cfm/fa/viewstory/story_ID/17393
I have never been so disheartened - or furious - listening to this show! I am literally breathless with anger. Your promotion of this lopsided BS is infuriating!
Excellent show Kojo. Another class of Pit Bull bite victim is other canines. Two friends of mine have had their dogs attacked recently by Pit Bulls.
When my female German Shepherd was a 10-week old puppy, she was attacked by a snarling Pit. When I scooped her off the ground and held her away from the Pit, it started jumping at me. Fortunately the owner got the Pit under control. "I can't believe he did that!" was her reaction.
These dogs have been selectively bred for aggressiveness to the point they are simply unpredictable.
alcy114:
Pit bulls are likely picked to be trained (a misnomer, because it usually consists of beating and starving the dog into shifting into survival mode) for that sort of thing because they are strong animals. They are built like little wrestlers, but that doesn't mean that's the way they are meant to be. I wouldn't know about how "easy" it is to make the animals this way - perhaps you could ask Michael Vick - but I would imagine it's not an easy thing to break a dog like this. They are highly intelligent animals - mine uses his paws like hands to get at things, and they are known for having a great deal of discretion in knowing what is actually a threat to their human and what is not.
Also, check the numbers. I'm pretty sure pit bulls are not the main culprits of injuries and deaths, only the ones most talked about in news reports.
@write_person - do you have any more information about this or a link to a news story? Was this a recent event? I don't remember hearing about it.
You have to know your dog, but that means understanding that your dog's temperament can change. I had the nicest dog for 12 years, then one evening a neighbor's little dog came ambling toward us and my dog just out of the blue attacked him. It was twilight and her vision wasn't what it used to be; these are the only things that could possibly have made a difference. She may have misinterpreted the other dog's approach, or it caught her off guard. The next minute she was back to being herself and never exhibited that kind of behavior, but we were more careful with her.
No dog is 100% safe because they can misinterpret cues that other people or dogs are giving.
Hi,
I listen to your show when I happen to have time at work and find a lot of your topics timely and often informational.
I am a citizen of PG county and this topic very much touches home and heart for me. I had a brain tumor removed in 1996. I wanted a dog to keep me up and on my feet so I might remain active. I have had a lot of dogs in my life but a friend of mine had a male and female American Staffordshire terriers he wanted to breed just once - not for money - and I got pick of the litter. These dogs were bred for the show ring and were AKC standard - not your typical backyard breeder examples. I had seen pit bulls before and I had been leery of owners who wanted to appear tough. What's up with that? How does a dog make you any more or less of a person?
I trained my dog from 8 weeks to become an ambassador for his breed. We hit a couple of rough spots, all involved other dogs attacking the two of us while we walked around the neighborhood. The worst of these are in order - Akita, chow, and various stray mutts - all which belonged to people in the neighborhood and off leash or out of their yards. I had to take him to the vet's ER because of some attacks. All of these were unprovoked and a lot I stopped by swinging a heavy stick at the attackers. On one occasion I had to let go of his leash so he could defend himself against a large Akita.
As for his social life - most people should be as welcome as he was into various social settings. The neighborhood kids used to ring my doorbell so I would take him out. They socialized him. Neighbors would invite me into their houses and insisted I bring him with me.
I may sound like one in denial of errant dog behavior but I also know the merits of good ownership. If you invite a dog into your life you have to come to know it much as you would a child. Training and socialization are ultimately necessary if you want a well rounded dog. My dog knew silent hand signals by my own choosing. My dog had to pay explicit attention to me before any other of his surroundings. This should be the goal of any dog owner. A dog should know love from you as well as how to reciprocate that.
One last - I was approached by an NTSB agent about having my dog evaluated for service with that federal bureau. He would have been a federal agent, had a badge, received a salary and better health care than I. He would have been above the law as far as BSL is concerned.
So much for an inherently dangerous breed.
Thanks Kojo and crew for taking my call.
My wife and I adopted two mixes which many say look to be pit bull mixes. My wife is a scientist in the field of genetics and scoffs at the dog breed genetics tests. Simply put, if you have a mix, unless you know the breed of the Mom and Dad dogs for sure, you do not know what kind of mix you have. Everything regarding mutt breed composition is pure speculation.
That being said, I can see a bit of pit in my dogs. Regardless he is a powerful dog. The older one, Boomer was physically abused by humans. We and his previous foster mother (pupstolove.com) have worked hard to recooperate Boomer.
After 4.5 years, I still have to be cautious of situations I put Boomer in. It is my responsibility to avoid situations which would scare him into a negative reaction.
Agreed: power breeds are capable of doing grave damage and a pit bull is a power breed. But power breeds are not inherantly violent just because they have the capacity for causing harm.
It is about the owner.
Sneezewhiz,
If we were to adhere to your 3rd sentence shouldn't we extend that to humans as well?
Human on human violent crime far exceeds any statistics one could ever wish to attribute to dog related instances. Watch the news this week and take note of who is truly the inherently dangerous animal. A recent event in Colorado comes to mind.
If a child kills or maims another child why not put that child down and charge the parents with a crime?
Sure, it's a kid, but aren't humans supposedly above these types of actions? Where does the training and responsibility aspect fit into this scenario?
I have been a dog walker and pet sitter for over 2 years and am working on a dog training certification; I have worked with breeds of all types and sizes, from 3 to 100+ pounds. The three times I have been bitten have been by smaller breeds.
I also own a 20 lb. mutt and while he is not perfect (still occasionally tense and grisly meeting other dogs, especially puppies and males), we continually work on it and do a few things I feel ALL dog owners should do:
1. We always communicate with other dog owners well before he comes into contact do we have plenty of time to adjust or prepare to have a positive encounter.
2. We have studied canine body language and sounds and aways watch when he's off leash at a dog park for signs that he or the other dogs might be escalating so we can intervene if needed to prevent things getting out of hand. We also learned how to break up dog fights.
3. We do not accept him ignoring us; if he does we go to him and make sure he pays attention!
4. We do not use a flexi leash. I have seen far too many bad things happen because the dog is just too far away and you can't control the dog or the leash the way you need to.
Just having responsible dog owners who didn't accept bad behaviors to begin with would change this debate immensely.
Dear Kojo
I am a huge fan of you and your show and have been on your show on a few occasion. However, this was extremely disappointing coverage of an important issue. The entire discussion of what a "pit bull" is was very misleading as were the "data" on dog bites and pit bull-related bites in particular. Your first two guests were appalling. There are much more reliable sources who should have been brought on board. The American Temperament Test Association of America presents robust data yearly on a number of dog breeds: http://atts.org/breed-statistics/. American Pit Bull and American Staffordshire Terriers routinely outperform other dogs in terms of temperament, including Beagles, Bloodhounds, Collies, Boston Terriers, several breeds of retrievers, several breeds of collies and other terriers.
In fact, banning breeds of dogs rather than focusing upon the well-honed legal standard of negligence does not address the public policy problem of dog bites. Moreover, there is no scope or scale of the pitbull "problem." Given the prevalence of dogs, the overall incidence of dog-related injuries is incredibly low. You are more likely to electrocute yourself on your washer than you are to be killed by a dog.
While some of your listeners noted the CDC as a site for data, the CDC has actually stopped reporting stats on what kind of dog has caused a bite in question owing to the fact that folks do not always know the breed, the breed is misidentified, or is a mix breed. The CDC is also aware of the misuse of data on particular dog breeds.
Admittedly, your later guests did a better job of characterizing this.
Otherwise, keep up the good work. I'm still your fan!
Christine Fair
I'm 54 years old. I've been a dog owner and lover for 48 of those years and I have loved and cared for all types of breeds during throughout this time, including German Shepherds, Beagles, Labradors, Shih Tzus, Standard Poodles and pound mutts. Despite my love of dogs and my belief that all animals are entitled to love and respect, this show was unbalanced and filled with anecdotal evidence about why Pit Bulls supposedly pose no greater danger than Labs. This concept is just simply wrong. Let's put aside for a moment the self-interested websites and blogs on either side of this issue. Let’s also steer away from incidental dog bites from, for instance, nursing bitches or anxiety driven toy dogs and spaniels. Let’s instead focus on the very serious metric of dog bite-related fatalities (“DBRF”), a category that the CDC actually tracks. According to the CDC, Pit Bull-type dogs and Rottweilers are responsible for over 60% of all deaths (with Pit Bulls leading the way) and 75% of the victims were children between the ages of 6 months and 12 years. (See, the first link below.) Moreover, over 94% of Pit Bull bites are by intact male dogs. Look, I love dogs but when the discussion degenerates into an abstract, anecdotal driven debate about why Pit Bulls are no worse than poodles, equating dog ownership with the safety of our children, we’ve lost our way. What next? Oh, I know, let’s spend some time with the NRA discussing why the Aurora shooting and many, many others do not justify the need for better gun safety initiatives (I’m a multiple gun owner by the way). Plus, given the fact that Labs and Golden Retrievers are the most popular and numerous dog breeds in the US, if they were truly as dangerous as Pit Bulls then any statistical analyses would show that Labs and Goldens were killing our kids at a rate far and away greater than Pit Bulls. Instead, the opposite is true, Pit Bulls, Rotts, and Shepherds lead the way; retrievers, however, aren’t even a statistical rounding error when it comes to DBRF. So if you look at the current stats and take into account the fact that Pit Bulls are not a particularly popular breed, then the statistics are even more alarming for a relative standpoint. Hey, I like Gary Weitzman and have listened to him and Sam Litzsinger on NPR’s Animal House for years. But his credibility took a big hit today when he compared a Lab to a Presa Canario, the dog breed that attacked and ate a woman in San Francisco. In fact, accordingly to twenty-four years of data, over two-thirds of all deaths were caused by three breeds—Pit Bulls, Rotts and Presas. (See, the second link below.)
Now, one can attempt obfuscate the issue by debating what the definition of a Pit Bull is (sort of like asking what the meaning of is is), but the fact is these breeds are killers with Pits leading the way. And just in case Dr. Weitzman and his ilk have troubling identifying what a Pit Bull is, I point them to what Supreme Court Justice Stewart’s said about pornography--I know it when I see it. For example, please look at the number 1 dog on this link and tell me that it isn’t a Pit Bull: http://www.petsdo.com/blog/top-ten-10-most-dangerous-dog-breeds . The fact is dog uber-lovers will never be convinced that Pit Bulls are a particularly dangerous breed. An extreme example of this is the San Francisco Bay-area area mother who left her 12 year old son to be attacked and killed by the family's Pit Bull after the dog had bitten the boy earlier that day and still maintained that she had done nothing wrong and that her dogs were not dangerous. Thus, there is a very strong need for legislation to protect our minor children from being mauled and killed if for no other reason. Because, at the end of the day, while I love dogs I simply do not love them more than people, especially our precious children. Do you?
http://www.cdc.gov/HomeandRecreationalSafety/images/dogbreeds-a.pdf
http://dogbitelaw.com/images/pdf/Dog_Attacks_1982-2006_Clifton.pdf
When I lived in the country, with no human for miles from me, I had seven dogs, none of whom had even seen a leash. Every one of them was the most well behaved, affectionate members of the family. The last 3 decades I have lived in the so called "civilized" world, so I have not had any dogs at home.
Perhaps the humankind would be better off if it understood that the rest of the species did not come into existence to serve the humankind. And left them alone to live in their respective habitats and try to co-exist on the planet like all other living beings do.
Every Time I hear someone speaking of "owning" a pet is revolting. By definition, in order to "own" something, one must be it's sole author, and since the humankind does not have the ability to create a dog, "owning" one would then be impossible, in the real sense of the word.
Yet, we have the arrogance of putting a leash on a dog to parade them on streets thinking of how humane we are. If only those dogs could speak! A fine example of "freedom" indeed! Maybe the only justification is in the "do-as-I-say-but-not-as-I-do" phenomenon. If I do not want to be taken out on to the streets with a leash around my neck, then what right do I have to do that to another living breathing entity?
SpikeZ,
Let's put aside for a moment your self-interested point of view. You listed having contact with any but a pit bull which leaves you on your own island. My AmStaff was properly trained and that training was reinforced daily. I visited the kennel where his show champions grandfather, dam and sire came from. I never saw dogs that craved human such attention in my life.
You favor human life over that of a dog? Have at it. Humans aren't humane to each other. They aren't unconditional and make for bad company for the most part.
On the other hand I have never known of a dog wielding a gun or knife, getting a DWI, raping, robbing or kidnapping kids. They don't want to.
Though I don't like to see dog bites it is usually a human's fault the incident occurred, be it the owner or the one bitten. Yep stupid people get bitten and want to blame the dog when they, in fact, instigated the incident.
How about snake bites?
http://askville.amazon.com/venomous-snake-bites-occur-texas-yearly/Answe...
By listening to the show and reading the comments I have come to the conclusion that people are holding to their own opinions. As a personal observation I have been running for 25 years, and attacked several times and actually bitten once. I noticed that the pit bull is the only bread of dog that pulls away from the owner toward me as if the dog is looking for a fight. On one such attack a pit bull was being walked by a teenager and he could not handle it. The dog pulled him toward me and I had to run and climb onto a car setting off the alarm to escape the potential attack.
A bigger point is that there needs to be a viscous dog rule because I was also attacked by a Bull Mastiff and actually bitten. I called the police when I got home and the owner was fined I thought the dog needed to be put down.
If people can walk such viscous dogs for protection, I feel joggers and runners should be able to carry a hand gun to shoot those dogs when they attack in order to level the playing field.