The Politics Hour
Transcript for:
The Politics Hour MR. KOJO NNAMDI
13:06:45
From WAMU 88.5 at American University in Washington, welcome to "The Politics Hour," starring Tom Sherwood. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.
MR. KOJO NNAMDI
13:07:19
He's back, ladies and gentlemen. It's bigger than the Capitals advancing in the playoff. It's bigger than the Nationals starting the season off in first place, and it's bigger than the Redskins drafting RGIII. Tom Sherwood's...
MR. TOM SHERWOOD
13:07:33
You know, what does that do?
NNAMDI
13:07:33
...the evil empire.
SHERWOOD
13:07:35
That may be the first time ever I've had symphonic music played in my (unintelligible).
NNAMDI
13:07:39
The evil empire is back. That's from "Star Wars."
NNAMDI
13:07:42
And even though he's -- well, first and foremost, let's do the polite thing. How are you feeling?
SHERWOOD
13:07:48
Well, you know, I'm pretty good. I don't want to get into the administrative aspects of insurance and worker's comp issues 'cause I would talk for an hour about that. But I would say my knee is, for an old man, is doing very well. And as you saw, I'm not -- no crutch, no cane.
NNAMDI
13:08:01
How come? Did you ever walk with a crutch or cane after surgery?
SHERWOOD
13:08:03
Well, I'm actually pretty healthy for an old man.
NNAMDI
13:08:05
So did you ever have to use a crutch or a cane after surgery?
SHERWOOD
13:08:06
I did for the first week.
NNAMDI
13:08:08
And now, you're walking on your own speed again. We are calling him our own Hopalong Cassidy. But it was only -- it only took you 24 hours, it would appear, before you were already in a brouhaha with your old nemesis, former mayor, now Ward 8 councilmember, Marion Barry, who after his campaign speech in which he denounced Asians who own stores in...
SHERWOOD
13:08:33
Dirty stores only.
NNAMDI
13:08:34
Dirty stores in Southeast.
SHERWOOD
13:08:35
Not the clean ones.
NNAMDI
13:08:36
On this occasion, he was hearing testimony involving UDC and training of nurses and talked about the fact that we have to depend on nurses who are immigrants, specifically Filipinos, and somehow or the other, you got in that story also.
SHERWOOD
13:08:52
Well, you know, yesterday was my first day back to work. And it just turned out to be the day that Marion Barry was having a budget hearing...
NNAMDI
13:08:58
Correct.
SHERWOOD
13:08:58
...on the little committee that he chairs, which is on community groups, and one of those community groups is the Asian and Pacific Islanders. And so we knew there might be some discord at that event. Of course, there was. But, you know, and Barry took this tact of blaming the media, saying that we had distorted what he said, both in the Asian matter and the Filipino nurse matter.
NNAMDI
13:09:19
You were the one who reported the Asian matter.
SHERWOOD
13:09:21
Well, I didn't -- my station -- my cameraman...
NNAMDI
13:09:24
Initially.
SHERWOOD
13:09:24
...got it, you know, and I -- and my editor saw the video. And then I reported it, yes. But, you know, Barry, he's like -- you know, I have a long history with him. He's like this big bass fish on a hook. You know, he's just wiggling in every direction, trying to act like he's not caught.
NNAMDI
13:09:41
Yeah.
SHERWOOD
13:09:41
But his own words have him saying what he said. Now, the Filipino nurse thing, I think he was trying to say that, you know, we need better local education here in town.
NNAMDI
13:09:53
So that we can educate our own nurses from the District.
SHERWOOD
13:09:53
So we can train people for the jobs in the health -- growing health care.
NNAMDI
13:09:56
Yes.
SHERWOOD
13:09:56
I'm a living example of it, especially today. So -- but, you know, he cannot -- and then Eleanor Holmes Norton says you cannot cast things in a racial descriptions and expect people to think that you're not racial or racist. But he was very adamant about he won't apologize, but there's always tomorrow.
NNAMDI
13:10:15
Said it was the media's fault. Did I mention that Tom Sherwood is our resident analyst? He's an NBC 4 reporter and a columnist for The Current Newspapers, who is likely not to be very pleased by the fact, if it affects him, that Metro fares are going up again, not that we did not expect this.
SHERWOOD
13:10:31
Well, you know, Metro -- I'm more irritated about the fact that it's going to be a dollar surcharge for people who use paper cards and not -- don't have a smart card.
NNAMDI
13:10:41
Yes (unintelligible).
SHERWOOD
13:10:41
And it's not that I don't know how to get a smart card.
NNAMDI
13:10:43
It's to make me get a SmarTrip card now.
SHERWOOD
13:10:44
And I will get one. And I'm sure there will be tens of thousands of people locally who get them. But I'm thinking that the family of four who comes in from Kentucky or Illinois and wants to ride the Metro, and they're going to pay a steep price every time they get a card 'cause they won't know about the smart cards.
NNAMDI
13:11:02
Yeah. And so there are...
SHERWOOD
13:11:03
But Metro needs the money.
NNAMDI
13:11:05
So it would appear. Let's go to Virginia for a second because it's been reported in The Washington Post that more than three dozen people have been charged with election fraud in Virginia with the 2008 election, in some cases, were registering to vote despite disqualifying felony convictions. There are two voter ID bills in the Virginia legislature which Gov. McDonnell is supposed to be pondering at this time.
NNAMDI
13:11:31
It would make it necessary for people to have ID when they show up to vote. There are those who say this is simply another form of voter dilution, comparable to the literacy test and the poll taxes that were enacted in a previous era because they say, after all, 3.7 million people voted in Virginia in 2008. And if only 38 of those people -- or 39, depending on whether you include the person for whom there is a warrant out but who has not yet been arrested -- apparently voted illegally because maybe they had a felony conviction, then you don't have widespread voter fraud.
SHERWOOD
13:12:06
Well, if 39 out of 3.7 million -- I wish I could do the math on what that percentage is. But, you know, some Democrats alleged that this is simply a -- and that there are other ballot matters initiatives in other states, that this is simply a Republican effort to tamp down the vote of Democrats.
NNAMDI
13:12:24
In particular African-Americans and seniors. It's supposed to -- the allegation is that this will deter some of the fraud.
SHERWOOD
13:12:30
Well, I was just trying to be broadly based.
NNAMDI
13:12:33
Yeah.
SHERWOOD
13:12:33
But then -- that's right. It is an issue. But, you know, and the bill, the laws that were passed to have an ID, there's an expanded use of ID, meaning not just a government-issued ID but a utility bill or something that shows your address. Still, that can be restrictive for people. And then I think he also said that we -- you could -- that boards of elections could compare signatures with the card with the ballot signature.
SHERWOOD
13:12:58
But, you know, who said -- who has the ability to do all of that. So it's quite a mess, but I think it's just -- if we get into the politics of McDonnell, you know, positioning himself to be the vice presidential nominee (unintelligible).
NNAMDI
13:13:11
And later in the broadcast, we'll be talking a little bit more about the sentencing coming up for former Ward 5 Councilmember Harry Thomas Jr. We'll do that closer to when we talk to the current Ward 6 councilmember, Tommy Wells, who will be joining us in studio later in the broadcast. We've been spending the entire week hyping Tom Sherwood's comeback to "The Politics Hour."
NNAMDI
13:13:32
But our next guest may have done us one better. Ike Leggett -- Isiah Leggett is the county executive of Montgomery County, Md. He is a Democrat. And he has brought back his proposal for an ambulance fee in Montgomery County, a lightning rod of an idea that sparked knock down, drag-out debates before. Council executive -- county council executive Ike Leggett, thank you so much for joining us.
MR. ISIAH LEGGETT
13:13:56
Thank you for having me again.
NNAMDI
13:13:57
Good to see you. Why are you floating this idea again?
LEGGETT
13:14:00
Well...
NNAMDI
13:14:00
And what are your expectations for it?
LEGGETT
13:14:02
Well, things have changed in the last two years. First of all, Maryland, the state of Maryland, Virginia, District of Columbia, Montgomery County is the only jurisdiction without such a fee, which is quite odd in many ways.
SHERWOOD
13:14:15
Prince George's has it?
LEGGETT
13:14:16
Yes, District, Fairfax, everyone.
NNAMDI
13:14:17
The District has it, too.
LEGGETT
13:14:17
We are singly out there by ourselves. In addition to that, things have changed. We just had a sea change in the General Assembly that, over the years, especially after you get beyond FY13, we could be hit by as much as an additional $400 million. In addition to that, we have a very inflexible MOE law that could hurt us.
SHERWOOD
13:14:42
I'm sorry. What kind of law?
LEGGETT
13:14:43
It's called the maintenance of effort. It's a change in the law -- school law, how much...
SHERWOOD
13:14:45
That's the school law, how much money you put in the schools.
LEGGETT
13:14:47
Just how much money you put per student. And the...
NNAMDI
13:14:50
Well-informed, Sherwood.
SHERWOOD
13:14:51
(unintelligible).
LEGGETT
13:14:51
And about -- most estimates now, it is quite inflexible. And if you look at it, this is really to bill the insurance companies. There's no co-payments. There are no additions to it. There's nothing that you don't have to do other than have the ability for us to bill your insurance company. That's all that's required.
LEGGETT
13:15:08
So given the magnitude of the change that we've seen and the fact that this kind of change was not there two years ago, I think is best for us now to say to the voters, are you prepared to reaffirm that decision in light of these changes that we now have in Montgomery County throughout the state of Maryland?
SHERWOOD
13:15:25
Is there an...
LEGGETT
13:15:26
The voters may say no. But I think it would be irresponsible of me to say I am now prepared to go back and make further cuts where we've cut the budget by a record number of $2.5 billion or to increase taxes further. See, you got a choice. The choice will be additional taxes, further cuts and reductions, or we try to at least get some of that money that is already on the table that other jurisdictions will get it.
NNAMDI
13:15:49
What do you think? 800-433-8850. Do you think that economic circumstances in Montgomery County have changed significantly enough since the last time that you would change your own mind about whether there should be an ambulance fee? 800-433-8850. Tom?
SHERWOOD
13:16:04
If this were to go into effect -- and I don't know the experience in D.C. and in Prince George's, for example -- would there be an increase in premiums for insurers, either group insurance or individual insurance, that way you would get -- you would be hit on the back end, not the front end?
LEGGETT
13:16:17
No. That has not been the case in any of the jurisdictions we've talked about. For example, since we last had this discussion, at the same time we were discussing it, Anne Arundel County was discussing it as well. They decided to go forward. They now receive, for a smaller county, $10 million -- none of the adverse effects that people have talked about. In addition to that, you already paid for the insurance. You are paying for it now. It's already in your coverage. So we do not anticipate that there will be an additional increase in premiums. If there are, they will be relatively minor.
SHERWOOD
13:16:47
And if you get the additional 14 to $17 million, if this were to go into effect, is this money earmarked for something, or is it just your general budget fund that you're trying to cover all your cost?
LEGGETT
13:16:58
It's earmarked for public safety, especially for the fire and rescue service because we are expanding those services. And what we have to do -- and we will do that because we have growth in places like Clarksburg and Damascus and Germantown. And we have to provide the equipment, the resources that are required. And we generally take that money out of the normal operating budgets to fill that. And we will do that because it's public safety. It would...
SHERWOOD
13:17:20
'Cause this should be additional money, not a switch of money.
LEGGETT
13:17:22
Yeah. It will be additional moneys going into that segment of our public safety. In the law, it is dedicated to public safety and to fire rescue (unintelligible).
SHERWOOD
13:17:28
You know…
NNAMDI
13:17:29
The last time around, you got a great deal of opposition from your voluntary -- volunteer...
LEGGETT
13:17:34
Volunteers.
NNAMDI
13:17:34
...firefighters and rescue workers. Do you anticipate that this time around, or have you already had conversations with them?
LEGGETT
13:17:40
I anticipate that there will be opposition, but I feel relatively confident that if people understand the issues, as I've just described them, and look at all the factors -- and people, believe it or not, are really surprised that Montgomery County is in this isolated position by ourselves. People really need to understand that. And now, much of what I talked about a few years ago about the increased cost to us -- and that doesn't include -- that $400 million does not include additional cost that we have to deal with ongoing government operation. This is an additional cost to the county government.
SHERWOOD
13:18:09
So -- but that's the Chevy Chase Emergency Services, one of the most well-known, even does some services in the District of Columbia.
LEGGETT
13:18:15
In the District, yeah.
SHERWOOD
13:18:16
It was opposed to this initially. Has there been any change there?
LEGGETT
13:18:22
I don't think so. I don't think that they will be in support of it. I think that they have a very good arrangement that they like. And I think they will like to keep it that. But I think the time is gone for us to continue to afford the system that we have given the growth, given expectation, and expect for the taxpayers to increase the cost on them and all further reductions.
NNAMDI
13:18:41
Well...
LEGGETT
13:18:41
It's just simply not (unintelligible).
NNAMDI
13:18:42
Well, Maryland leaders are also looking at the possibility likelihood of holding two special sessions in the legislature during the coming months, one devoted to a revenue package, the other on gambling legislation. If you're concerned about what might happen in those special sessions, why not wait until those sessions happen before making this proposal?
LEGGETT
13:18:59
Well, because I'm reasonably certain that, in the next couple of weeks, we're going to get the teacher pension shift. That's almost a certainty. And if we don't get it now, we'll get it next year. The revenues that we're talking about will not start until next year. So I don't think we need to wait until all of this is over. And by the time we have a decision about this, the General Assembly would have concluded its session.
LEGGETT
13:19:18
So we are more likely to have a teacher pension shift now or sometime in the foreseeable future. The law does not go into effect until after that and would allow us some time we wish to adjust.
NNAMDI
13:19:29
Our guest is Ike Leggett. He is the county executive of Montgomery County, Md. He is a Democrat. Please don your headphones, Mr. Council Executive, because we're headed to the telephones, starting with Andre in Washington, D.C. Andre, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.
ANDRE
13:19:45
Oh, yes. I was wondering if Mr. Leggett could explain -- it seems like this is such a no-brainer decision to charge for ambulance billing. Perhaps Mr. Leggett could explain some of the political issues and things that led to the downfall of this legislation previously.
LEGGETT
13:20:01
I think -- first of all, I just mentioned ago, we have a very strong volunteer system. And the volunteers have supported that system, and they've done a wonderful job at Montgomery Country. We have a very strong, very powerful Bethesda-Chevy Chase system as well. I think that they did a very good job, in many ways, confusing people of making it be known that the ambulance will not pick people up. People were fearful to call, and other allegations, scaring seniors around.
LEGGETT
13:20:29
And as a result of that, in a very quick election that was heavily funded in many ways. I think the message was somewhat confused. For example, people are just now learning the fact the Montgomery County stands alone as the only jurisdiction, does not collect. And you don't collect monies as a fee from the individual patients. It simply goes to the insurance company, which you already paid for.
NNAMDI
13:20:50
How about those people who either, A, don't have insurance or people who, B, are on Medicaid?
LEGGETT
13:20:57
Wonderful question. People on Medicaid, we bill Medicaid. We bill the federal government. It's the federal government and the insurance company. If you don't have insurance, we're not seeking to get monies from you directly. So if you don't have insurance, we'll pick you up. We get -- we will get the 14 to $17 million just from the insurance company (unintelligible).
LEGGETT
13:21:12
What is the opposition then of the -- of volunteer responders, that they don't -- is it -- they don't want to be saddled with the paperwork of having to -- what is it that is the opposition?
LEGGETT
13:21:24
Well, they don't have to do any paperwork. The paperwork is done through the hospital and then through the normal paperwork you have anyways. There's no additional paperwork. I just think that we've had a system that has worked, at least, in terms of their perspective. They do not want to change the status quo, and they have a very good arrangement with some of the hospitals under the current system.
LEGGETT
13:21:41
They do not want to see that change. They could come over to all these other excuses. For example, the ambulance won't pick you up, or seniors will be fearful. None of those things exist in any of the jurisdiction. It is simply we've had a very powerful, very politically motivated system and a system that has been, in my view, worked fairly well, but it cannot, going forward, given the demands that we have on our system.
NNAMDI
13:22:04
Well, Tom asked who -- why are they opposed to it. We have one person, Steve, in Silver Spring, Md., who will explain why he's opposed to it. Steve, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.
STEVE
13:22:13
OK. Thank you. First of all, I don't like to balance the budget of Montgomery County on the backs of the medically indigent or medically challenged. Second of all, I...
NNAMDI
13:22:29
Well, allow me to have you -- allow me to have Ike Leggett respond to one...
STEVE
13:22:31
Let me finish.
NNAMDI
13:22:32
No, no, one question at a time. Ike Leggett, he says he doesn't want this to be balanced on the backs of the medically challenged.
LEGGETT
13:22:39
That's just a falsehood. I just stated a moment ago, for those who do not have insurance, you're not billed. For those who have insurance, you will collect. For those who have Medicare, we bill the federal government. That's just nonsense.
NNAMDI
13:22:50
Steve, your turn.
STEVE
13:22:51
That's baloney. The proclivity of the county government and the county council to change the rules of taxation once the camel has gotten nose under the tent is just -- it's unrestricted.
NNAMDI
13:23:10
Your mixed metaphors are confusing me here, but go ahead, please.
SHERWOOD
13:23:14
What's wrong with the idea?
STEVE
13:23:17
What's this?
SHERWOOD
13:23:18
What is wrong with the idea? What is the drawback for the individual or for the volunteer responders? What is wrong with it?
STEVE
13:23:25
Well, it's if -- you can say there's only safeguards today. But tomorrow, the safeguards can go away with an act of the county council or -- and the county executive.
SHERWOOD
13:23:37
So you...
STEVE
13:23:38
Just the terms and conditions that apply right now are not no necessarily the terms and conditions will apply a year...
NNAMDI
13:23:46
You don't trust your county government, is what he seems to be saying.
LEGGETT
13:23:49
Well, if that is the case, that's the kind of argument you can make about anything, taxes, reductions, and that's across the board. So that kind of argument I don't think applies very well. But the point of it is that has not happened in any other jurisdiction. This is not something that is new. This is something that has been enforced in virtually jurisdictions around the country for the last 15 or 20 years. So none of the things that you've stated are true, and you need to go back and look at the literature and records to make sure -- certain of what you're talking about.
SHERWOOD
13:24:15
Who is setting -- what agency of government will set the fee for the ambulance service?
LEGGETT
13:24:21
It is determined by the rate which we pay forward. It's already in our estimation between four and $800 and on the type of the service.
SHERWOOD
13:24:29
But which part of the government decided that it might be three to $800 or whatever? Is it your health agents? Who -- I mean, what -- who actually says that? Who says that rate -- this person is thinking, well, the rate can change and you can make other -- but who sets this rate?
LEGGETT
13:24:45
The rate is based on...
SHERWOOD
13:24:46
Some national standard?
LEGGETT
13:24:47
Yeah, the rates -- but, generally, it's fairly national, but it goes to the local jurisdiction, depending on what level of service they provide. And that is determined by our fire and rescue services, as well as our Office of Budget and Management. That is already out. But, again, it doesn't matter in terms of that rate. That rate will not be billed to the individual patient. It is billed to the insurance company. And if the insurance company has a problem with the amount of that rate, then they can challenge it. That's where the bill goes.
SHERWOOD
13:25:10
Oh, but...
NNAMDI
13:25:11
Steve, thank you very much for your call. Who currently pays for ambulance fees?
LEGGETT
13:25:15
The taxpayers in Montgomery County, plus some amounts that we get from volunteers and others who make collections individually.
NNAMDI
13:25:21
In that case, I'd like to go to Bonnie in Fredericksburg, Va. Bonnie, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.
BONNIE
13:25:27
Hello. How are you today?
NNAMDI
13:25:28
I'm well.
BONNIE
13:25:29
Oh, good. First of all, does it -- I -- my sister recently was taken to the hospital by ambulance, and they charged an outrageous fee for it. And she actually...
NNAMDI
13:25:42
Who did they charge, you sister or the insurance company?
BONNIE
13:25:45
A part of the -- she did have insurance, but what the insurance didn't pay Anne had to pay. And, secondly, it...
NNAMDI
13:25:54
Which was what?
BONNIE
13:25:56
...seems to me as though everybody is trying to dip their hands into the insurance company's pockets. I don't know what happens to our tax dollars. I don't know why need to continue to subsidize in other ways. It just seems to me there should be a better way to approach this.
LEGGETT
13:26:16
Well, some people believe there's a better way, by the taxpayers or by further reductions. In our system and most system, we simply go by the rate to which we charge insurance companies. There are no additional payments beyond that. If the insurance companies paid $500 or $600, that's it. You do not get anything beyond it.
NNAMDI
13:26:33
OK. Thank you very much for your call, Bonnie. Tom?
SHERWOOD
13:26:36
I was just thinking, well, if the insurance company declines -- so the county could then, say, raise the fee or -- once you set the policy in place, there's not vote to raise the fee. Could you say the fee could be $900?
LEGGETT
13:26:48
No, no, no. It's the -- what we bill the insurance companies. We have no ability under this law to go beyond that point. But we cannot...
SHERWOOD
13:26:55
But you could change...
LEGGETT
13:26:56
No.
SHERWOOD
13:26:56
You can't change the billing?
LEGGETT
13:26:58
Yeah, you could always change a law, if that's what you're saying.
SHERWOOD
13:27:00
Right. So if you bill the insurance $800 and the insurance company says this is a $500 tab, who pays the $300 difference?
LEGGETT
13:27:08
We just lose it, and our assessment is that we get 14 to 1,700 -- $17 million on what we simply collect from the insurance company.
NNAMDI
13:27:18
Final...
LEGGETT
13:27:18
And we are very certain that our rates are fairly competitive.
NNAMDI
13:27:21
Final word on this issue, we have Ed in Montgomery County, who is apparently for the ambulance fee. Why is this, Ed?
MR. ED ASHER
13:27:29
Hi. Thanks for taking my call. Ike, this Ed Asher. Greetings.
LEGGETT
13:27:33
Hey, Ed. How are you doing?
ASHER
13:27:37
You know, I was the former chair of the Montgomery County Chamber a long time ago before I retired. Now, I live in West Virginia. I just want to tell you that in Morgan County in West Virginia, they have an ambulance fee, and it seems to work OK. Nobody -- you know, nobody likes to pay fees, but it -- it's accepted. It's accepted every year, comes on the ballot every year. But the other thing I want to talk to you about, Ike, for just briefly was the county council was voting on the tax break for McDonnell Douglas.
ASHER
13:28:10
And, you know, you're one of the few people I know that's been around long enough to remember the Bechtel -- you know, when we chased Bechtel of Frederick County over the same issue, and I just hope that -- we maintain a home in Chevy Chase as well. I pay, you know, the property taxes there as well. But I just hope that, you know, that somehow can be ameliorated and keep that company in Montgomery County.
NNAMDI
13:28:41
Well, I'm glad you brought it up, Ed. It's not McDonnell Douglas. It's Lockheed in this case. The county's in a tax dispute over one of its biggest business residents. The Washington Post Editorial Board said the other day that it's making everyone look bad. How do you see it, and what do you think Lockheed's business is worth to the county? You don't want to keep Lockheed there, obviously.
LEGGETT
13:28:59
Well, what we have, Kojo, is a tax that should not apply, and the basic facts of the -- we...
NNAMDI
13:29:06
Hotel tax.
LEGGETT
13:29:07
Yeah, we have a motel tax -- hotel-motel tax that was instituted some years ago, designed to buy tax revenues for those who come into the county and pay.
SHERWOOD
13:29:17
What percentage tax is that?
LEGGETT
13:29:18
That's about seven, 8 percent added to your bill.
SHERWOOD
13:29:19
OK.
LEGGETT
13:29:20
And so it was designed for people coming in to the county for a variety of reasons and staying in hotels and motels. What Lockheed has is, in fact, a conference center that they have for their employees. They come in for training at periodic periods throughout the year. What this tax has been used to is it applied to Lockheed's employees who are on their facility, utilizing their facilities and staying there. That was never intended for that. I know and when you go back and look at historically at that.
LEGGETT
13:29:47
So what I wanted to do is simply to, in effect, eliminate that tax or have the county reimbursed for the collection of that tax. I think that's a no-brainer in terms of, if you look at the law, the intended purpose of the law and what's happening. I don't want to have an adversary relationship with one of the largest employers in Montgomery County over your tax dispute at this amount of level. People have mischaracterized this. The law was never intended for this purpose.
SHERWOOD
13:30:12
I think...
NNAMDI
13:30:12
And we're talking about about $450,000?
LEGGETT
13:30:14
Yes.
SHERWOOD
13:30:15
Oh, I didn't know there was a Lockheed B&B and that maybe I could go and recuperate or something.
NNAMDI
13:30:20
If you happen to be working at Lockheed.
LEGGETT
13:30:21
If you're working for Lockheed and you come there for a conference, you could.
SHERWOOD
13:30:23
This is solely an employee...
LEGGETT
13:30:25
That's all it is.
SHERWOOD
13:30:26
...or a contractor thing within -- internally within Lockheed's world not...
LEGGETT
13:30:30
That's all it is. Yeah. And I don't think people dispute the fact.
SHERWOOD
13:30:33
OK.
LEGGETT
13:30:34
I think when you look at the law, the law was written in such a broad -- and I would call irresponsible -- way that it covers all of that. But it really never was intended for that.
SHERWOOD
13:30:42
Is this the unique situation where there is no other corporate-run facility for stay-overs?
LEGGETT
13:30:49
I think this is it.
SHERWOOD
13:30:50
I don't -- so -- OK.
NNAMDI
13:30:51
Well, there's another broader issue, Tom Sherwood, and that is, if on the one hand, you want to keep Lockheed, on the other hand, when the council contemplates a resolution encouraging Congress to cut down on defense spending, which is what the Montgomery County council did, what concern do you have about the message that debates like that send up -- send out about the business climate in your county?
LEGGETT
13:31:15
It's an inconsistent message that we have in the county whereby in one hand, we are trying to encourage and to promote a business-friendly atmosphere, and at the same time, we have laws or regulations or rules that in some way go the opposite direction. It never became a law. It never became a resolution. It was never fully adapted. But simply the message of that along with things such as the Lockheed Martin tax dispute are not the kinds of headlines you want to see, at the same time, you're trying to promote your business-friendly atmosphere.
NNAMDI
13:31:46
Tom.
SHERWOOD
13:31:46
Are you concerned at all in this election? I know you're a Democrat. You like to see the president win and Democrats control the Senate, whatever. But that the cost of defense spending and the spill out from that, to contractors, which is a big part of the government, I mean, the economy of Washington's region, are you concerned at all that -- do your projections see that declining or slowing down its growth? What do you see there whether Republicans win or not?
LEGGETT
13:32:12
Obviously -- yeah, obviously, I don't -- when you look at the fact that we are two laws down turning one and possibly the other fairly soon, there's a huge amount into defense spending. I think that anybody, Democrats included, could look at the Defense Department Budget and say we need efficiencies there. And so obviously we'd go down. What you don't want to do is have a hatchet job and a responsive reduction. But to say that we could continue to fund the defense department to the level that we've had in the last few years, I think, would be wrong.
NNAMDI
13:32:43
On to Nick in Potomac, Md. Nick, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.
NICK
13:32:48
Yes. Mr. Leggett, I like to know how you think that you could go behind the back of Montgomery County citizens and make a private secretive deal with MSI to -- for the Brickyard Road Soccer Field when the Park Service says that there are -- any more fields anyway?
NNAMDI
13:33:13
You make a private secretive deal with the Youth Soccer League?
SHERWOOD
13:33:16
It must not be secret if he knows about it.
LEGGETT
13:33:18
That's right. He knows about it. We've been discussing it for the last two years in all kinds of discussions at every level. Nick has a farm out there, and I think the farm is in his backyard. And he wants to maintain it as an organic farm. We've suggested it be placed somewhere else. And there are some opposition to two soccer fields in a proposal by MSI to put soccer fields in some county-owned land, so there's no backroom deals. It's been discussed publicly and debated. I've had at least four discussions with you.
LEGGETT
13:33:45
I've been out on your land, on your property. We've had at least a half a dozen conversation. You're just on the wrong side of this issue, and we might as well admit that. We disagree, and we're moving forward there.
SHERWOOD
13:33:56
What is the status of that? When is that going to actually happen if, assuming, it does happen?
LEGGETT
13:34:00
Well, if the contractor can fulfill the term, and they've signed the lease and an arrangement for it, and they've signed the contract recently, it will go forward. There will continue to be disputes about it, and I recognize and accept those differences, but I'm on a different side of that. But you can mischaracterize the process as being unfair. You can mischaracterize it by attacking people. I think that's the wrong approach, and I think you've done the process of great deal of harm by doing that. We simply disagree on something that is quite fundamental on two soccer fields.
NNAMDI
13:34:30
Nick, your turn.
NICK
13:34:32
Well, actually, I'm -- I am not that Nick, I'm another Nick myself...
LEGGETT
13:34:36
Oh, I'm sorry. I apologize.
NICK
13:34:39
But, you know, Roger Berliner -- number one, Roger Berliner said that you had secret deals. Number two, you had to be subpoenaed to get the records of those secret deals. Number -- you didn't want to let go -- any of those secret deals...
NNAMDI
13:34:59
You're breaking up on us, Nick. We'll have to go with number one and number two. Ike Leggett.
LEGGETT
13:35:02
Number one, Roger Berliner is mistaken by that. And I think you need to go back and talk to him about that, and I think that he's got the facts wrong. And you look at the record. All of that is wrong. And trying to mischaracterize all of this, I think, is the wrong way. Secondly, you don't have to subpoena anything. We gave you so many records on something that's very fundamental. We said and we had an agreement, which we have -- we are walking through.
LEGGETT
13:35:23
There's nothing secret about that. We simply disagree. And so I said before, you're doing yourself a disservice by the attacks and things that you stated. You put all of that out there. I disagreed with you, and I continue to disagree with you and...
SHERWOOD
13:35:35
Was there a subpoena? Was there, I mean, it's either there's a subpoena or there's not.
LEGGETT
13:35:38
Yeah. There was a subpoena, but they had the records already. It was not anything added in addition to subpoena. You can have subpoenas for everything simply to generate publicity. So they've tried every trick you could think of. Suing people...
SHERWOOD
13:35:49
Oh, this was a lawyer subpoena.
LEGGETT
13:35:50
Yeah. That's all it is.
SHERWOOD
13:35:51
OK. Not like a government subpoena, right?
LEGGETT
13:35:53
Well, they were trying to get records to -- which they were given, and they wanted additional records, they got. But it's not anything of any substance.
NNAMDI
13:35:59
And I'm afraid that's all the time we -- oh, go ahead.
SHERWOOD
13:36:01
Can I ask him one quick question...
NNAMDI
13:36:02
Of course. Sure, please.
SHERWOOD
13:36:03
…'cause it'll lead into our next guest. The back tax in Montgomery County.
NNAMDI
13:36:07
Yes.
SHERWOOD
13:36:07
You know, we were talking before the show, Tommy Wells and the District of Columbia is one of the people -- or the person credited with that. How is the back tax working in Montgomery County?
LEGGETT
13:36:17
It's going very well. And I want to congratulate and thank the District of Columbia and Tommy, especially, for the efforts to move into that direction. It made our transition much smoother and, in fact, I think we've expanded the back tax in Montgomery County. So they've done a great deal for...
SHERWOOD
13:36:30
Well, don't say anything nicer 'cause he's coming in.
NNAMDI
13:36:32
Yeah. It seems like the back tax is not an even issue any longer in the District of Columbia.
LEGGETT
13:36:37
He did a wonderful job. Thank you.
SHERWOOD
13:36:37
Thank you.
NNAMDI
13:36:38
Ike Leggett, thank you so much for joining us. Ike Leggett is the country executive of Montgomery County, Md. He is a Democrat. You're listening to The Politics Hour starring Tom Sherwood. He is our resident analyst. He's an NBC 4 reporter and a columnist for The Current Newspapers. I don't know if you wanted to comment at all, Tom Sherwood, on the entry into the governor's race in Virginia of one Tareq Salahi.
SHERWOOD
13:36:59
You know, I have -- if I have ever made a resolution that I've kept, it's not to talk about that person.
NNAMDI
13:37:07
I see. Or to talk about reality stars in general or just this particular?
SHERWOOD
13:37:14
I believe anyone and everyone has a right to run for public office, and we should give them the -- all of the attention he deserves. And that's what I'm going to do.
NNAMDI
13:37:22
OK. Well, then, in that case, we can move on. Sentencing coming up for former Ward 5 Councilmember Harry Thomas Jr., and the result of an investigation conducted by the council under the leadership of Councilmember Jim Graham finds that Mr. Thomas Jr. was probably assisted in his successful effort to take some $350,000 out of the city's budget for his own use but has not identified anyone who assisted him. What did you think about that report? Tom Sherwood.
SHERWOOD
13:37:59
Oh, I'm sorry. I thought you were asking our next guest.
NNAMDI
13:38:01
I haven't introduced our next guest yet. He is mentioned in the report (unintelligible).
SHERWOOD
13:38:03
Well, I'm a little irritated that The Washington Post had it first, and I don't know exactly how that happened. I don't know if that was a good work of their reporters or if it was handed to them, so I just leave it at that at this moment.
NNAMDI
13:38:13
Well, talk...
SHERWOOD
13:38:14
But I would say, I'm a little bit -- I'm not quite sure why it got such front page play. I mean, Millicent West, who was the emergency management director for the city had been over this child and youth facility that was giving out the money. She resigned because of this. No one thinks that Harry Thomas Jr. was magically bringing money into his place without some assistance.
SHERWOOD
13:38:35
And there are couple people who pleaded guilty from some nonprofits, and there's been a shake up in the youth organization. So I wouldn't -- I'm just not surprised by that at all. I think if you're going to do a report like that, I'd like to see some names attached.
NNAMDI
13:38:47
Well, the report also says that Councilmember Tommy Wells recalls having conversation with then city -- then Council Chairman Vincent Gray about that, but then it goes on to say that Wells has an uncertain recollection of what was said. The Tommy Wells we know tends to remember everything that was said. He joins us now in studio. He is a member of the D.C. council. He is a Democrat representing Ward 6. He's also chairman of the council's Committee on Libraries, Parks, Recreation and Planning. Tommy Wells, welcome. Tell us a little bit about your own view of that report.
MR. TOMMY WELLS
13:39:17
Well, thank you very much. And in reference to talking to the Chairman Gray, actually, what I talked to Chairman Gray about was the number of the council members that had earmarks in there. There was earmarks to go to organizations that weren't even nonprofits. They were just groups of people. So I talked to the chair about concerns about a number of my colleagues and what we had -- what was in the earmarks and that the -- we need to put some controls on this.
MR. TOMMY WELLS
13:39:41
And, you know, it was out of the box. But how do -- if we can't put it back in the box, what do we do? So with the chairman, we -- then-Chairman Gray, we sent a letter to Greg Roberts, head of the Children and Youth Investment Trust, to say, look, follow your rules. Even though this is not going to be bid out 'cause it's earmarked, follow your rules.
MR. TOMMY WELLS
13:39:59
And in the end, that's one of the things that Tommy Thomas' team did is that they -- or his staff so that they forged the reports following those rules. But, yes, I met with Chairman Gray and talked about a number of my colleagues, and I was very concerned of not just about Tommy Thomas but about a number of them moving money that really needed to follow the rules.
SHERWOOD
13:40:22
Did chairman...
NNAMDI
13:40:22
And the reports suggested that since you were chairing that committee, that specifically you should've been taking a closer look at funds being doled out by the Children and Youth Investment Trust Corporation to your colleague.
WELLS
13:40:32
Well, I was very concerned not just about Tommy Thomas. Now, understand this did not come...
NNAMDI
13:40:38
Who else were you concerned?
WELLS
13:40:39
Wait a minute. This did not come to the committee. It's at the end when they adopt the budget. You get the budget in the morning, you know, the final version, and you see, you know, they've attached the money in there, these earmarks. And you know what? We're going to have the trust spend it. It didn't go through a, you know, a committee process, but they would add in monies, and, you know, a lot of earmarks went not just to the trust, went to other areas. But I had concerns, and I am very concerned about, you know, it was not just Tommy Thomas.
NNAMDI
13:41:08
Who else do you think? Who else? Name names.
WELLS
13:41:10
Well, in Ward 8, there was that groups that were not nonprofits were designated to be recipients in earmarks. And that's why we had to deal with that, and in the end...
SHERWOOD
13:41:20
(unintelligible) Barry for a variety of things.
WELLS
13:41:23
And in the end, working with then-Chair Gray, the only, you know, the only conclusion in the end is that the council should not do earmarks.
NNAMDI
13:41:31
800-433-8850 is the number to call if you've got questions or comments for Councilmember Tommy Wells. 800-433-8850. You can send us a tweet, @kojoshow. Email to kojo@wamu.org, or go to our website, kojoshow.org. Join the conversation there.
SHERWOOD
13:41:47
Did Councilmember Jim Graham talked to you or did his staff talked to you before issuing this report? Or how did -- I mean, I'm not sure...
WELLS
13:41:54
Well, yes, I...
SHERWOOD
13:41:55
What is your general thought about the report itself?
WELLS
13:41:57
Well, I don't think the report covers any new ground. All of this is out there. I don't think there's anything new except for, in the report, it says, you know what, maybe there is some other people involved in telling the trust to, you know, to give money. And I'm just -- I've, of course, participated in helping Jim with providing information to the report, but I'm -- I don't see if there's some speculative conclusions in there that he'd like to investigate further, and I'll support him.
SHERWOOD
13:42:27
I think that -- and this is -- you're known as saint councilmember -- saint council martyr...
NNAMDI
13:42:32
Martyr...
SHERWOOD
13:42:33
...Tommy Wells. I thought maybe this was just an opportunity to scuff you up a little bit.
WELLS
13:42:37
Well, I certainly was put in a position. That's why I went to the chair to, you know, with all these earmarks not going through my committee but adding it to the trust. I didn't want to be in the position of having to investigate a good number of my colleagues after the money is spent. That's why I went to the chair and said, we got to stop this.
SHERWOOD
13:42:52
Now, can we talk -- while we're on this subject, can we go to Harry Thomas Jr.'s...
NNAMDI
13:42:55
But wait, before you said we got to stop this, Anthony Williams created this trust in 2000. When you say we got to stop this, do you think the trust...
WELLS
13:43:02
The earmarks.
NNAMDI
13:43:02
...has served its purpose or do you think the city should consider getting rid of the trust altogether?
WELLS
13:43:05
Well, oh, I think that the problem, main problem with the trust was that initially that the board was being changed over to a yes board for the executive branch. And so the trust has its own board of directors. It has to be strong folks that can say no to the city council.
NNAMDI
13:43:22
Isn't that the case now?
WELLS
13:43:24
In my oversight hearings, repeatedly I said, are you getting calls to direct money to groups? Are -- is there any councilmember that's pressuring you to do something that ought not be done? I mean, that's repeatedly. And so I believe that the trust is retooling, that they're bringing in strong folks like Robert Bob, who will be the chair of the trust. I think these guys can stand up to the council and say no.
WELLS
13:43:47
The trust has a very important role in the city to create public-private partnerships to help those small nonprofits that help kids, and I think it worked up until...
NNAMDI
13:43:57
Bobby Bob is bobbing back.
SHERWOOD
13:43:59
Yes, he is. Well, I'm not quite sure how it would be done if the trust didn't exist. It started with Tony Williams. I mean, he would be splintered throughout the government, the various -- each agency would have to handle it.
WELLS
13:44:10
That's right. The government is not...
SHERWOOD
13:44:11
Let's go on. Speaking of splintering, though, Harry Thomas Jr. next Thursday will be sentenced. He's likely to get a prison sentence according to what everyone who has anything to say about it will say. But he will not -- he probably will not go to prison, will get some date to report 30 or 60 days after that and then he'll go to prison, first councilmember to be convicted at the time from office in this kind of situation. What's your own thought about what's happened in the meantime?
WELLS
13:44:38
What do you mean in the meantime?
SHERWOOD
13:44:40
Well, you had the ethics legislation in the council, which, you know, was not nearly as strong as you want. You've got the Initiative 70 to ban corporate contributions. Those are all not directly related to what he did, which was steal money from children, which still irritates me when I think about it. But just the -- was it a wakeup call to the council members to pay attention more?
WELLS
13:45:00
Oh, I, -- as you know, I don't think the council has fully understood that there's -- and understands even today that there's a crisis of ethics and that I think that there is a pay-to-play perception of the council.
SHERWOOD
13:45:12
Still.
WELLS
13:45:16
Oh, no question. And so we see, you know, again, the corporations bundling, having outside influence over individuals giving the campaigns. I think that we do have a problem with the public having confidence in the honesty, and the council serving them, I think, there is a big problem.
SHERWOOD
13:45:30
And Harry Thomas is going to be sentenced, again, next Thursday. By then, everyone is still waiting for the -- what I call a centipede of shoes to drop -- is that, you know, the mayor and the council chairman. I mean, how do you get work done knowing that there's mattresses hanging over everything you do that the mayor might be moved -- removed from office, the council chairman might be removed from office, which case you might run for one of those two jobs?
WELLS
13:45:54
This is a very difficult time for our city, but I know that, still, our city is really growing. It's doing well. Our -- we're rebounding financially.
SHERWOOD
13:46:02
City is doing better than the government.
WELLS
13:46:04
I agree, Tom. And so I do think that this is an awful cloud of our government but -- and I think creates cynicism in our elected government. That sort of thing happens before, you know, all across the country. But our city is on the right trajectory. We're a diverse city. We're a great city, and we've got to get through this.
NNAMDI
13:46:23
Well, the reason why Loose Lips has nicknamed you Ward 6 Council Martyr Saint Tommy Wells is because there is a distinct atmosphere on the council that tends to shut Tommy Wells out. How difficult is life for you on the council right now?
WELLS
13:46:40
I still feel like we're moving an agenda. You know, the mayor is new. You know, sustainability agenda is an agenda that I...
NNAMDI
13:46:47
Going to that in a second...
WELLS
13:46:48
...have a strong support for. I strongly believe that I still, at the end of the day, am on the right side of the issues. But I don't believe that the council has dealt with the issues of ethics, and I think that the council does not have the standing it should have. And I'm, you know, I don't vote just to go along. I vote on behalf of what I think is right for our city.
SHERWOOD
13:47:10
Are there personal animosity? You don't have to name the council members unless you wanted to, but are there -- do you, on private conversations, on the receiving end of personal animosities yourself?
WELLS
13:47:23
Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I think anybody that knows me that I'm pretty congenial, and I'm congenial with whether...
SHERWOOD
13:47:31
I have an email. I have a voicemail message I can play, which shows how congenial you are.
NNAMDI
13:47:36
Tell us about it.
SHERWOOD
13:47:37
Not while we made a mistake on this show. You know, I was talking about...
NNAMDI
13:47:39
Oh, yeah.
SHERWOOD
13:47:41
...Tommy Thomas' crimes and misdeeds.
WELLS
13:47:43
You're going to undermine my reputation.
SHERWOOD
13:47:44
And I said Tommy Wells. And so I have still in my cellphone here, Mr. Councilmember, saint martyr or whatever you call it, his reaction. I played it at a couple of public events to help raise money. I will play it again.
NNAMDI
13:47:57
The mayor ruled out a big plan this week to make the city more sustainable, a 20-year vision that would include bike lanes, buses, street cars, clean rivers, all the things you are for. But WAMU's Patrick Madden reported yesterday that you've got some doubts about whether -- even though you approve of this vision, but you've had doubts about whether the city can execute this kind of vision. Why is that?
WELLS
13:48:18
Well, first, let's start with I want to commend the mayor and we should all commend the mayor for laying out a vision for where he wants to take the city. He laid out a very bold vision for over the next 20 years to have a clean Anacostia River that you can swim in, fish in, that we have a city where most of your trips, at least 75 percent of your trips, you can walk there, bike there, you know, that we have a healthier city. Also, talking about, you know, containing the water runoff and improving the air quality.
WELLS
13:48:47
That's a very strong good vision for the city, and I appreciate the mayor laying that out there. And -- but I, you know, in some of the things that are going on, I'm very concerned about execution. We haven't been able -- here, we're putting in a new street car line on 8th Street and...
NNAMDI
13:49:02
We want to get to that next.
WELLS
13:49:03
...what...
NNAMDI
13:49:04
Isn't that supposed to be up and running next year?
WELLS
13:49:06
And what I don't see yet is that they have not signed the contract for the people that are building in the rest of the, you know, you got to put in the power lines and the boxes and where does it end up on -- up by Union Station? That -- they haven't been able to execute the contract, and they got in their best bids and offers seven months ago. So I do think that sometimes it really seems that molasses has been poured over some of these government gears and things have slowed down. And that's very frustrating for me. In terms of vision, the mayor is right on.
SHERWOOD
13:49:36
Someone said it's not so much vision as a mirage, then the distant 20 years of planning, but meanwhile we can't get the street cars ordered on time and get them -- and we can't get, as you said, the infrastructure.
WELLS
13:49:47
I'm going to work with the mayor. I'm going to work with the mayor to help get -- to implement this vision.
SHERWOOD
13:49:53
What does that mean? Are you going to be tough publicly on him? Are you just going to call him up and say, you got to do something?
WELLS
13:49:58
Well...
SHERWOOD
13:49:58
Are you the affable Tommy Wells or the other Tommy Wells?
WELLS
13:50:02
Well, as we know, that -- the affability is not something to be fooled by, that I will stick by my principles and not bend on that. But in terms of working with the mayor, it's that when a contract hasn't been signed and needs to be signed, going on WAMU and saying, come on, mayor, get the contract done. So that brings it down, you know, moves it forward. It also means when we do the budget for Parks and Rec, that community gardens, a lot of public space activation that needs to happen on our public property, you'll see in my budget report.
SHERWOOD
13:50:32
Can I lobby him now for the duck pond in Southwest? Some of these -- some -- they're getting the -- all the coating of the stuff around done. And we're -- I'm hearing lots of complaint from my neighbors that...
WELLS
13:50:41
I got a great picture...
NNAMDI
13:50:42
He asked, can I lobby him? And then proceeds to lobby him anyway.
SHERWOOD
13:50:45
I just want to be public about it.
WELLS
13:50:45
I got a wonderful picture of the duck pond: Sherwood with a broom.
SHERWOOD
13:50:48
Clean it up. You know, I put sweat where my words are.
WELLS
13:50:53
Indeed. We've made a lot of progress in the duck pond, but also because of the help of the neighbors. The fountains work and all that. Now we got some more structural work to do. You bet.
SHERWOOD
13:51:02
OK. Good.
NNAMDI
13:51:02
Here is Mary in Washington, D.C., who wants to do some lobbying of her own, apparently. Mary, you're on the air. Go ahead, please.
MARY
13:51:08
Hi, Councilmember Wells. I was wondering, Parks and Rec, I think, has a good camp program. But for a lot of our kids, they need an educational component over the summer. Have you thought about getting PTR and our school system to partner to add an educational component so all our kids continue being educated over the summer, but without having to take -- you know, give up camp and the fun of summer?
NNAMDI
13:51:33
Yeah, just wreck the kids' summer with more education.
SHERWOOD
13:51:34
I was just thinking. I went to camp, and I don't remember having to do any educational things. But I thought the educational thing was being out in nature, on the lakes and doing all those types of thing is education. No books.
WELLS
13:51:44
You know, there's a lot of things we can do around the camp programs. We've got one of the highest obesity rates in the nation, and I think that teaching young people about good -- you know, about how to eat right and become food ambassadors for the families. There's a lot of education that is not necessarily just continuing with trigonometry or continuing on with, you know, other parts that we should be doing with our kids. And I've asked Department of Parks and Rec to have those components, of course.
NNAMDI
13:52:09
Mary, exactly what kind of educational components were you thinking of?
MARY
13:52:13
Well, like, actually, I had my kids at camp, and after the activities they want to get on their computers and just play. But if instead they had some kind of computer adventure camp, which would be fun -- kids love being on computers -- but included some programming, and then they're problem-solving, but they see it as fun…
NNAMDI
13:52:33
OK.
MARY
13:52:33
...is an example of where you can do something that kids want to do. And they can learn sort of by themselves.
NNAMDI
13:52:40
OK.
SHERWOOD
13:52:40
Like compute your batting average, if you know, when you're playing the softball game…
NNAMDI
13:52:44
That's true.
SHERWOOD
13:52:45
...or that kind of thing. Don't -- you're not allowed to play unless you can compute your average.
NNAMDI
13:52:49
Those things got to help. Mary, thank you very much for your call.
WELLS
13:52:51
Thanks, Mary.
NNAMDI
13:52:51
You, too, can call, 800-433-8850. Our guest is Tommy Wells. He's a member of the D.C. Council who represents Ward 6. He's the chairman of the council's Committee on Libraries, Parks, Recreation and Planning. About that long-term vision thing, whether we're talking about sustainability or not, we talked to Jack Evans a few weeks ago about whether the city should be having conversations with the Washington Redskins about building a training facility within the District. In your ward, how do you see it, particularly if the facility was on the so-called Reservation 13?
WELLS
13:53:22
Well, the first thing is that it wasn't Ward 6. We did a master plan for that area that did not include a Redskins training facility. It's now in Ward 7, and the leadership in Ward 7 will have a lot to say about this. But let me say that if we're creating livable, walkable neighborhoods, it makes our city great.
WELLS
13:53:39
And let me say one of the best things, I think, if you could say something good about George Bush II, was that he transferred a lot of property to D.C. that we can put into mixed-use development to generate -- you know, really improve our tax base in a way that we get at the structural deficit that Brookings and folks talks about.
WELLS
13:53:56
So that does nothing for our tax base. It does nothing for the neighbors around that area. That's a neighborhood that we need fresh grocery. We need, you know, rec facilities. We need the kind of things that create healthy neighborhoods. And putting a training center is not smart growth there, and it really adds nothing to the vibrancy of the neighborhood over there. That is not a livable, walkable plan.
SHERWOOD
13:54:17
The mayor has not backed off.
NNAMDI
13:54:17
Let me put in my Dan Snyder notebook here: File lawsuit against Tommy Wells.
SHERWOOD
13:54:22
The mayor has not backed off. Just, I think, yesterday, Tim Craig of The Washington Post tweeted that the mayor was so excited about RG3 being the new quarterback for the Skins instead of just another reason to bring the Skins back to Washington. It didn't sound like he was talking about the training facility. He's talking, like, maybe the whole team back near the new stadium at RFK.
WELLS
13:54:43
Well, that's a different conversation. To bring the Redskins back to the stadium is a different conversation than taking 30 acres out of...
SHERWOOD
13:54:50
Out of 62.
WELLS
13:54:51
Right. And then the rest will be roads and all that. I'm just saying the Washington, you know, we're just going to put -- you know, a training facility has walls around it that you can't see around. You know, it doesn't add life to the neighborhood because it's professional football. They don't want you to see them train unless you pay Dan Snyder some money, of course. So this is not -- does not add to the life of our city. The conversation of bringing the Redskins back to the stadium is a different conversation.
SHERWOOD
13:55:13
Now this is -- the land we're talking about is where the old D.C. General Hospital is...
NNAMDI
13:55:17
Correct.
SHERWOOD
13:55:17
...where the jail is and things like that.
NNAMDI
13:55:19
D.C. Jail.
SHERWOOD
13:55:21
But there have been two -- you referenced a decade ago there were two developers who proposed developing this Reservation 13 site. The deputy mayor this last week, I think, said that they might rebid this whole property. Is that acceptable to you to rebid the property or to go back to these two developers, maybe ask them for best and finals?
WELLS
13:55:41
Well, one of the developers has a master plan put out, a great vision of generating power on site, having mixed-use between retail and office space and people living there, along with a place for farmers' line and all that. It was a great vision. But then we had the recession, and he didn't have -- or that developer -- development team didn't have all the money to do it. It's kind of what you saw on Poplar Point, where they gave the award back to the District.
WELLS
13:56:06
So the proposal is do we go ahead and just take two paths, one or two paths and go ahead and award those? I think we probably should, to go ahead and get it moving because this is great land that should be used on behalf of Washington -- you know, of our Washington community. And it's -- we need to move forward.
NNAMDI
13:56:28
And I think we have a joint announcement that both Tom Sherwood and Tommy Wells would like to make. But first, a fanfare, if you will. The music, the music, the music that we'd like to...
NNAMDI
13:56:47
Yeah. Both Tommy Wells and Tom Sherwood will be enjoying this tomorrow. What's the occasion, Sherwood?
SHERWOOD
13:56:53
It's the Bluegrass Festival on Kingman Island, which is a spit of land right behind RFK Stadium. You can park at parking lot number six and walk over some pool bridges I think originally were there from 1976. And it's kind of a rural area right downtown Washington. It's great.
NNAMDI
13:57:10
Tommy Wells.
WELLS
13:57:10
This is part of rediscovering the Anacostia River. Bring people down on Anacostia River and rebrand that this is not just a dumping ground for things. This is a place where you can have a Bluegrass Festival. It's a place to bring your children, your pets, you know, whoever, your neighbors. Come on down to Kingman Island from 1 until 8 o'clock on Saturday.
NNAMDI
13:57:31
Or you can watch Tom...
SHERWOOD
13:57:33
And it's free.
NNAMDI
13:57:33
You can watch Tommy Wells, and hop along, Tom Sherwood.
WELLS
13:57:35
It's free.
SHERWOOD
13:57:35
Who's paying for it?
NNAMDI
13:57:37
Dance.
WELLS
13:57:37
Living Classrooms and sponsors. You got...
SHERWOOD
13:57:40
Make sure there's no earmark.
NNAMDI
13:57:41
As for me, I will be spending my evening watching Natwar Gandhi play Mohandas Gandhi in "A Tryst..."
WELLS
13:57:48
Wow.
SHERWOOD
13:57:48
I've seen the video of that.
NNAMDI
13:57:49
"...A Tryst with Destiny" at the Lansburgh Theatre.
SHERWOOD
13:57:51
He's pretty good, I hate to say it. He's pretty good at that. I've seen the video of him doing it. It's very good.
NNAMDI
13:57:56
I went there so I -- I bought tomatoes. I was planning on booing. You say he's pretty good?
WELLS
13:57:59
Hey.
SHERWOOD
13:58:00
He's pretty good. You know, he looks like Gandhi. He's got a name like Gandhi, wears that -- what do you call that thing that they wear?
NNAMDI
13:58:05
Well, I'll be there. You make sure you go out tomorrow and do something useful yourself. And if it's not necessarily useful, at least something that is entertaining, in which you can have fun, like at the Bluegrass Festival. Tommy Wells, thank you for joining us.
WELLS
13:58:17
Thank you, gentlemen.
NNAMDI
13:58:19
Tom Sherwood, always a pleasure.
SHERWOOD
13:58:20
I'm back.
NNAMDI
13:58:21
He's back, baby. Thank you all for listening. I'm Kojo Nnamdi.
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